How Could Anyone Vote For McCain Or Clinton??

[jgraz]

Run time: 05:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hds2r-g9oo   Posted on YouTube: March 20, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: March 20, 2008 By DU Member: jgraz Views on DU: 4289

 
Cenk Uygar has some tough questions for Hillary Supporters.

[Tinksrival]

1. Kick

and Rec!

[jgraz]

2. Thanks. It's a late post, but I'd like to see even one or two Hillary supporters respond

The part where he says "Of course you knew why she was voting for the war" is especially devastating. I've yet to see any Hillary supporter give a decent answer to that question.

[liberaltrucker]

3. Dream on

Ain't gonna happen. Hillbots know they haven't a leg to stand on.

:)

[Deep13]

27. I'm not any kind of a "'bot" and have two legs to stand on.

I also have something more than subjective feels to go on.

[DWilliamsamh]

32. Like? (N/T)

[action2008]

64. Are you sure she voted for the war?

Call me a troll if you like since I have posted this stuff before. But why are some people still lying about her war record?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/14/15257/1046

For those who hate Clinton, please answer this one simple question: why did you guys basically give John Kerry a free pass on his iraq war vote in 2004 presidential election while crucifying Clinton for doing the same thing?

[PassingFair]

81. We didn't. There was a guy named Howard Dean....

most of DU was for Dean against Kerry.
One BIG reason was his anti-Iraq invasion stance.

We got behind Kerry when Dean failed to win
the nomination.

Anyone who thinks DU did NOT give Kerry
HOLY HELL here, was

NOT

HERE.

[anonymeme]

65. And We Should Care About What a Noxious Misogynist Turk Has to Say About Politics, Because... Why???

And We Should Care About What a Noxious Misogynist Turk Has to Say About Politics, Because... Why????

They don't call 'em Turks for no reason...

I guess if you have to go through life with a bull neck and a bullet head, having a smart-mouth buys you some favor with the numb-skulls and knuckleheads...

I personally prefer a higher level political dialogue...

I want someone who knows what to do and says so...

That's why I'm voting Hillary in 2008!
~*:woohoo:*~

[SeattleGirl]

4. "....and then John McCain, once you've fallen off the cliff."

:rofl:

BTW, Cenk makes some very good points.

[ingac70]

5. KICK!

[pedo]

6. because they are scared of black people

or they desperately want a female president even if she sucks

[WonderGrunion]

38. If they were that desperate for a female president,

We'd have Pres. Carol Mosley-Braun in office right now. Let's not kid ourselves that they want a female president, they just don't want a black one.

[ihavenobias]

7. Good question, and one that so many of us ask ourselves n/t

[DemzRock]

8. How Could Anyone Vote For Clinton?? Easy...

Economy. It's still the "economy, stupid." Not security or foreign policy alone... alone...

Team Clinton = Miracle economy of the 90's.

Longest Peacetime Expansion in history.

Case Closed in my book.

[BlueJac]

9. You should read one then.

[jgraz]

12. Translation: "My money is more important than a few dead brown people"

[Lena inRI]

13. You're still evading Cenk's question. . .

. . .how could you vote for Hillary re: national security/foreign policy judgment which btw impacts our economy.

Some hell of an economic prowess Team Clinton had since 2000 as she ENABLED Bush Jr destroy their "miracle economy" and cancel out their "longest peacetime expansion" (dubious claim since Iraqi kids still died under Clinton's sanctions). . .

. . .yeah, Hillary the dynamic economist. . .riding on the backs of NAFTA-ED American labor

. . .Hillary the strong decider. . .voting for IWR first and foremost, NOT for moral or ecomomic soundness, but for her political expediency. . .so what if thousands will die and billions spent, I MUST BE THE FIRST FEMALE POTUS.

. . .and hey Cenk, LOVE YA!

:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[delt664]

14. Fixed.

Bill Clinton = Miracle economy of the 90's.



Hillary = On tour with sinbad.



Experience is NOT an STD.

[jjr5]

18. I was offended by your comment

What you said kind of implies that women are only good as sex-objects and it was a man that did something useful. I am a little offended - I mean ". . .experience is not an STD?" Okay so maybe she didn't run the Whitehouse, but she's doing that now and she is a qualified candidate.

[frog92969]

20. You obviously need a tougher skin

Or to stop projecting.
:shrug:

[jgraz]

22. My keyboard was offended by your comment

:spray:

[delt664]

25. You are jumping at shadows if you find my comment sexist.

I am not implying anything in general when it comes to men or women.

Hillary claiming she has crossed some imaginary threshold because she was physically proximate to the President and other high level officials is ridiculous.

Example : Her claims that she helped broker the serbian peace agreement turned out to be her staying in secure areas with a comedian and a guitarist. Hence my Sinbad reference. I would be more than happy to source that for you later, but I am working a the moment. Trying to take credit for things other people have done is a serious character flaw, and is downright dishonest.

Basically my argument is this - My girlfriend is not qualified to build a network. I am not qualified to build a marketing campaign. Hillary's idea of "Experience by Proximity" is insane.

Hillary has been a Senator exactly 1 term longer than Obama. Obama has many years of legislative experience at the state level. We can stop pretending that Hillary is a wealth of experience and Obama is the political equivalent of a snot-nosed kid. The way I look at it, their experience level is approximate, and if anyone has a leg up, it is Obama. Hillary calling Obama inexperienced is the same thing as calling herself inexperienced.

[DWilliamsamh]

26. She running the White House now? Better Let GWB know...

Or better yet Cheney.

And the remark had nothing to so with Hillary or any woman a a sex object.... it referred to the FACT that foreign policy experience isn't contagious. She couldn't catch it like a disease.... And since it was her husband who was conducting foreign policy he's the one she couldn't catch it from.

In other words his experience isn't HER experience. Bill Clinton is not running to be President and you can't VOTE for Bill Clinton to BE President. His accomplishments aren't hers. That is a simple fact and has nothing to do with sexism. How is the truth sexist?

Actually I think it is MUCH more sexist to suggest that she has some special experience that she gained through being married to the President. She isn't qualified (any more than you or me) to be President simply due to the fact that she lived in the White House for eight years. As Tracy Morgan so eloquently put it, if sleeping next to the President qualifies her to be President that Robin Givins is qualified to be Heavyweight Champion of the World.

[delt664]

33. Thank you, someone can always say it better than i can

:D

[plantwomyn]

39. Facist?

nt

[delt664]

44. Moran?

nt

[plantwomyn]

74. Facist States of America.

??????????

[DWilliamsamh]

46. Based on what?

The fact that the post agrees that one doesn't get credit for the accomplishments of one's spouse? I always thought a "fascist" was a person or member of a group that advocates the supremacy of the state over the rights of individuals and that further held the interests of business as the highest interest of the state. But I guess that 's just a historical old fashioned definition.

[delt664]

52. I believe this person meant to type

"I disagree with your point of view for the following reasons.........."

But only managed to type out "Facist". Its a common error.

[DWilliamsamh]

55. I'm sure that must be it....

thanks for the explanation, because I was so confused! :think:

[plantwomyn]

75. Facist States of America.

If "Its a common error." you made it not me.You profile not mine. WTF does Facist mean and where are the states?

[delt664]

77. Ahh I see now.

Here this should clear that up.

fas·cism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


You probably have noticed that our president stole 2 elections, illegally spies on citizens, lied to the country in order to invoke a foreign enemy and raise nationalistic support for an illegal war, seeks to protect the profits of corporations at the expense of the rights and even health of citizens.....

There are about 930 other things, but hopefully the comparison has become clear at this point. We live in what are the beginnings of a facist state. Hence my location in my profile - Facist states of America.

And I apologize for calling you a Moran, i thought you were calling me a Facist. :)

[plantwomyn]

78. Facist

Am I missing something or is it my spell check?

fas·cism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

fas·cism
fas·cism
fas·cism
So no, still ain't clear yet.
Can't find any such thing as a Facist so I couldn't call you one. Still don't know what it MEANS.

[delt664]

80. Typo.

sorry, its Fascist. Ill fix that now.

fas·cist /ˈfæʃɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who believes in or sympathizes with fascism.
2. (often initial capital letter) a member of a fascist movement or party.
3. a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.
–adjective

[plantwomyn]

82. Too bad

I thought you had a new derogatory to use for shrub. Had me going to the dictionary, couldn't find it and was driving me crazy.

[plantwomyn]

76. I agree with your definition of FASCIST.

I replied ... facist? ... as in WFT is a facist and where are the Facist States of America?

[jjr5]

69. I'm sorry for my typo, but I hope you can see through it.

What I meant to say is that she is running for president, not that she is "running the White House." Sorry. I'm an Obama supporter, but it doesn't matter. Equating experience to an STD because someone is married to a former president is simply unacceptable and biased language in my book. Who cares if I am an Obama supporter. I'm a democrat before that, and we need to protect our fellow democrats. To make it clear, I'm against the language choice, not against the concept being made. We cannot say these things to each other if we want to unite our party.

[DWilliamsamh]

71. Ok...

I think you are being over sensitive to the term "STD" and extrapolating bias where there really wasn't any. I seriously don't think there was any covert message, I just think STD's are pretty well known for being very contagious, and as likely transmitted between a husband and wife as anything.

BUT all that said I am recognize that some people have greater sensitivity to such things. My point of view is not the only valid one. Hell it may not even be relevant since the language wasn't mine to begin with! LOL

[jjr5]

83. True, true.

Same here. :)

[ihavenobias]

16. Take off the 90's beer goggles

Team Clinton=Some good things but also massive benefit from the tech boom. More importantly

Team Clinton=More Reagan style deregulation. You know, deregulation that allows corporations to do what they want to our detriment. And then there's NAFTA and GATT. And the FCC Telecom Act of 1996. Oh yeah, and didn't rendition start under Clinton? Why yes, I think it did.

Team Clinton=Even with Gore as VP, what serious push was there regarding CO2 and alternative energy? How about public financing and lobbyist reform? There were less than 50 registered lobbyists prior to Reagan and there are over 35,000 today. Clinton did nothing to address this issue of special interest influence. Hell, he didn't even *try*, being the good DLC dem that he was.

Bill Clinton=One of our best moderate Republican presidents (who was socially liberal).

[frog92969]

19. Your facts are not facts.

Just more Clinton fiction.

[Popol Vuh]

24. Oh?

And what economic package did she author back in the 90's? You'll have to refresh my memory because I don't seem to recall any.

But how about this one since you're going to credit Hillary with what happened back in the 90's. Madeleine Albright on 60 Minutes speaking of US sanctions against Iraq was asked: "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children that died in Hiroshima. And – and you know, is the price worth it?" Madeleine Albright's response: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price – we think the price is worth it."

So if you want to credit Hillary with what economically happened in the 90's, then, lets not cherry pick now. You also have to credit Hillary with supporting a policy which killed half a million little kids....Half a MILLION (500,000)....and thought it was worth it.

[krkaufman]

67. I agree on the "case closed." Clinton support for NAFTA and WTO/GATT ...

... is why we're spiraling downward.

As Obama said, Bill Clinton failed to change the direction of the country.

[graywarrior]

10. Man, I love it when someone thinks the same way I do

[wowimthere]

11. AMEN! Listen to Obama and Clinton and you know whose best...

This country seems like it's going back to 2004, where people vote against their own core interest. Clinton votes for war and somehow people think that she's fit to be commander in chief... because as she says, "it's a tough decision".

That Obama is presidential in all respects comes into question because of his "RACE" is beyond the pale. Many whites are lying to themselves. Many of those whites in Ohio and Pennsylvania are lying to themselves, lying to others about their rationale for supporting clinton. Why? Because there isn't a white person in existence who hasn't had a friend or family member or pastor in those steel towns who hasn't uttered racial epithets. They break bread with them every day probably. And they want to jump on the fear bandwagon with the right wing because Obama is half African American. These people would rather give face time to a warmonger than someone who never voted this war. How pathetic.

As if white presidents past and present had never, ever attended divisive rallies. Give me a break! You want to stay then stop pretending outrage and take a good look in the mirror at yourselves and own the label hypocrite. Many and I mean many of us know that Obama is absolutely the best candidate.

Thank you Cenk!

[TankLV]

47. And you'd pick CLINTON...she's the most presidential...

while mcglurkin rezko wright obama is IMPLODING...

[delt664]

15. I love the last line about McCain

"The man is dead wrong and promises to continue to be wrong in the future"

[OhioChick]

17. K&R

:kick:

[Megahurtz]

21. Kick.

[Popol Vuh]

23. KICK!

And Recommend

[LulaMay]

28. You are not a Democrat to compare them and encourage people not to vote for her.

[ihavenobias]

30. That's funny!

Is Hillary a Democrat when she compares herself with McCain, stating that only they (and not obama) have the experience and national security know-how to be commander in chief (a dumb argument that hurts Obama AND herself in the general election)?

Exactly.

[jgraz]

35. More like tragic

The lack of critical thinking ability on this board has gotten pretty depressing.

[Deep13]

29. I've already answered this question about a dozen times.

Management ability trumps wishful thinking or the desire to follow a charismatic leader.

The best national leaders are ones no one remembers when they leave because nothing traumatic happened during their tenure. (My apologies in advance to FDR and Lincoln who did well managing the fuck-ups of predecessors.)

[DWilliamsamh]

31. Management ability.

Name her management experience that indicates a high level of positive ability.

[jgraz]

34. Yeah, that one made me almost swallow my tongue

Has there been a more poorly managed national campaign than Hillary 08?

[delt664]

36. I think they meant "Management ability" as it is represented in Dilbert cartoons.

:D

[plantwomyn]

42. Name Obama's.

Their senate recored are easy to interpret. So name Obama's management ezperience. And don't give me the Chicago shit because we all know Chicago is a unique political climate. Just ask anyone in America where dead people vote.

[jgraz]

43. How about putting together a campaign that's kicking your candidate's ass to hell and back?

That enough management skill for you?

[DWilliamsamh]

48. How about getting the first EVER law in the nation

That requires video taping of ALL police interrogations, over the initial objections of groups from the FOP to anti-death penalty advocates? Or maybe organizing community action? Or running a campaign that came from an outside shot at maybe being able to shape the dialog in a presidential race, to being the presumptive (if you believe in math anyway) nominee of his party, while single handedly raising the most money - from the most individual small donors in history, and not having to loan his campaign $5 Million, because he thought it would be over by "Super Tuesday?"

That kind of management ability?

Oh and I know why you don't want to mention his legislative record at the state level. It is that experience that actually gives him more experience actually working in government than his opponent for the Democratic nomination.

Your turn. What are the indicators of Hillary Clinton's positive management ability?

Let's try something novel. Instead of slamming the person you don't support, why not post the evidence for your assertions about the candidate you do?

[plantwomyn]

73. Must have been one hell of a fight.

58 out of 58 voted yea in the Senate, 109 out of 116 voted yea in the House. Wasn't even close. BTW not ALL read the bill. And you might want to give a thumbs up to Monique D. Davis in the House. Not hard to "Manage" a bill that is UNANIMOUS!

All of the candidates have done community organization at one time or another.

So, okay, "running a campaign that came from an outside shot..."
Obama has done a Brilliant job "running a campaign".
I think he "managed" the timing of addressing this "controversy" very well.
A live 38 minute FREE advertisement in the middle of the primary. CBS interrupted regular programing. Brilliant! Live on CNN, MSNBC, etc. Brilliant!
He should take a bow.
I agree, not even the Clinton campaign thought of this kind of manipulation.
Compared to this Clinton is woefully lacking in Management ability.

[D23MIURG23]

41. I know her management ability has shined on the campaign trail.

:sarcasm:

[ooglymoogly]

37. Kick right over the heads of Hill supporters

and a rec to boot. The corporate media is now and has been rolling out the propaganda guns to destroy Obama the way they did Kucinich then Edwards and now Obama. Lets just hope folks beyond DU et al can see through it.

[Xardoni]

40. I wouldn't vote for McCain if he paid me a billion dollars

Never.

[TankLV]

45. How can anybody vote for McCain or OBAMA?!

Stick a fork in him - he's DONE

He should just drop out now...

[ihavenobias]

49. That was a useless post...

not because I disagree with it (I do, except that of course I agree no one should vote for McCain), but because it explained nothing.

It was a cheap, unsupported, baseless slam. It's fine to have those opinions, just, you know, maybe put a few more sentences together to (try and) support them.

[jgraz]

50. You were expecting something else?

I've never seen anything but cheap, unsupported, baseless slams from that one.

[Jim Sagle]

51. Cenk ain' nuthin' but shit.

[ihavenobias]

53. I guess you meant to use some various of the slang "Cenk is the shit", i.e. "the bomb", or "awesome"

I agree, 100%, of course I would just say "awesome" instead of those other things.

[Jim Sagle]

54. Cenk is a piece of shit.

Hope that helps clarify.

[DWilliamsamh]

57. Could you put together a few sentences .....

expressing WHY you think that? Or is your style just baseless slams based on your opinion being different than his? At least he explains the basis for his.

[Jim Sagle]

59. Maybe he does, but what kind of explanation would be worth hearing for a statement

that he can't see why ANYONE would vote for Hill?

[ihavenobias]

62. NOTE: He means *in the primary*, not the General Election. Also...

In the past (before her campaign started all of the BS nonsense that's damaging the party and the Dem chances in November) Cenk *defended* Hillary against BS attacks, and gave her praise:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vmM2j8P55SA&feature=related (Cenk defending Hillary against BS attacks)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AffVsYrSKSs&feature=related (Cenk praising Hillary's campaign and saying that she'd be a competent president...*before* her campaign went off the deep end)

[DWilliamsamh]

63. Thanks ... you beat me to it...

But let me add an addendum to your post is you don't mind, in the form of a question:

Was Cenk a shit head when he was defending Hillary? Or is it only now that he has been so offended by her party-destroying tactics?

[jgraz]

66. Whoa, I think you made his head explode

Complexity! Can't... handle... non-jingoistic... discussions... BOOM. :nuke:

[DWilliamsamh]

56. No, Cenk is THE shit!

[tblue37]

58. The video is no longer available. Could you summarize what he said? n/t

[Robeson]

61. This link works for me...

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hds2r-g9oo&feature=user

[krkaufman]

68. Sometimes you need to do a refresh to "wake-up" the YouTube links. n/t

[Anexio]

60. That was well done....

I couldn't agree more with his "why would ya".

Obama is the ONLY canidate that represents real change.

[Perry Logan]

70. No one ever accused Cenk of being overly intelligent.

[DWilliamsamh]

72. What a thoughtful critique

:sarcasm:

[ihavenobias]

79. Who is "overly" intelligent? He's just "intelligent".

IMO, one sentence slams do not a thoughtful discussion make (or a reasonable argument make for that matter).