Hillary Clinton's Two-Faced Attack On MoveOn

[babylonsister]

Run time: 01:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXuVJ2vrjO4   Posted on YouTube: April 19, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: April 19, 2008 By DU Member: babylonsister Views on DU: 2473

 

[Gman]

1. MoveOn endorsed Obama

So what's wrong with attacking someone that endorsed your opponent?? MoveOn made theirselves fair game to get blasted so they should quit whining like a little girl, or like Obama, but that's redundant.

[babylonsister]

4. She "LOVED" MoveOn a year ago. Two-faced, and this won't

sit well with a whole lot of people.

[Gman]

7. I guarantee you one thing

it won't make a bit of difference to Hillary's supporters and they'll all say it's about time. It not only will not sit well, but all the Obama folks will get the vapors and faint from the outrage. No one will change their position because Hillary attacks a group that endorsed her opponent and attacks her.

[babylonsister]

10. Oopsie! Read the comments at mydd, and get back to me.

Some not so happy campers over there...

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/18/191524/201

[Gman]

19. It's full of Obama talking points and tactics

Nothing out of the ordinary. THe usual Obamabot faux outrage, comparisons to using GOP tactics, etc., ad nauseum. Hillary won't lose a single vote because of it. And if, in that long list of comments there is someone that says they were supporting Hillary, but because of this he/she is supporting Obama, that poster is, with 100% certainty, an Obama supporter who never supported Hillary to begin with.

[babylonsister]

21. Except that site is usually very pro-Hill. FAIL! nt

[Gman]

23. Because the Obamabots are spamming it

real simple. The Internet is a wonderful place where all kinds of illusions can be produced.

[babylonsister]

26. How do you know that? I wouldn't waste my time.

Someone else's post alerted me to what was going on over there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5572403&mesg_id=5572515

[Gman]

27. I don't get it...

and H&E admittedly never was a Hillary supporter.

[Politicalboi]

36. If they support Hillary

Maybe they are Republicans. She sure talks like one.

[Gman]

37. Umm... did you think that witty comment up yourself?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

54. As a Kucinich supporter, I have no dog in this fight

I personally don't like either candidate, but will hold my nose and vote for whoever gets the nomination. That being said, I think this was a bad move on Clinton's part, just because she has basically ticked off an activist organization whose members are the ones most likely to volunteer to help in the GE. Comments like those she made will very likely make many of them decide not to help. And what we must concentrate on is the big picture--how to win the GE.

[Gman]

58. An extremely minute part of people that participate even belong to MoveOn

The Internet is wonderful for creating illusions. The Internet fosters this group-think mentality that makes everyone believe they are so unified and such a force to deal with. THere will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth in November when, if nominated, Obama loses a minimum of 40 states.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

62. What I really fear is that the Democrat who is nominated will lose

be it Clinton or Obama--and why? Because BOTH candidates have spent time hammering on each other--doing the Republican's job for him--while McCain just smiles on the sidelines, NONE of his shortcomings addressed. We know that we have an uphill battle getting the truth about McCain out to the public, and yet NEITHER candidate spends as much time bashing McCain as they do bashing each other--and Democratic groups that support the other candidate. BAD MISTAKE.

[Juche]

9. MoveOn's members voted for Obama

MoveOn didn't nominate anyone, the members voted on who to support and Obama won by a 40 point margin.

What is wrong with it is that it shows the bridges the Clinton team will burn in order to win, she is attacking moveon with fox news talking points (they are a weak, radical org. that sort of thing). Liberal activist groups and liberal bloggers are some of the strongest forces in the modern democrat party. She is right when she says they are hostile to her supporters (at least online), all the blogs and internet sites I've seen are anti-Clinton. But alot of that is probably due to Clinton's personality.

And from what I've seen it isn't just national security issues that motivate the liberal groups. Alot of it is disgust over economic and judicial policy.

[Gman]

11. MoveOn endorsed Obama

however they made the decision to endorse Obama is irrelevant. Hillary is 100% justified in blasting MoveOn. Fact is, there is no bridge to burn because MoveOn as well as the rest of the Obama lemmings blew the bridge up months ago. Ask a Hillary supporter if he/she will support Obama if he wins and they say yes. Ask an Obamabot if he/she will support Hillary if she wins and they go ballistic.

There is no bridge to burn. Obamabots blew the thing up.

[Kittycat]

15. No, it's very relevant... They put up a vote to their members.

Their members made the decision, overwhelmingly, to support Obama.

Wolfson in his response today, was also caught lying about this.

[Gman]

22. What difference does that make? That Hillary should kiss MoveOn's ass anyway?

Screw MoveOn. They need to get blasted.

[babylonsister]

24. Howzabout 3.2 MILLION MEMBERS? Duh.

http://www.moveon.org/about.html

What is MoveOn™?

The MoveOn family of organizations brings real Americans back into the political process. With over 3.2 million members across America – from carpenters to stay-at-home moms to business leaders – we work together to realize the progressive promise of our country. MoveOn is a service – a way for busy but concerned citizens to find their political voice in a system dominated by big money and big media.

The MoveOn family of organizations is made up of a couple of different pieces. MoveOn.org Civic Action, a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization, formerly known just as MoveOn.org, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action, a federal PAC, formerly known as MoveOn PAC, mobilizes people across the country to fight important battles in Congress and help elect candidates who reflect our values. Both organizations are entirely funded by individuals.

Every member has a voice in choosing the direction for both MoveOn.org Political Action and MoveOn.org Civic Action. Using our ActionForum software, you can propose priorities and strategies. Both organizations also take the initiative to organize quick action on other timely issues that our members care about.

[Gman]

30. Yeah, well, I was a member too

until MoveOn endorsed her. They will not get another donation from me ever again. There are likely well over a million MoveOn members that also support Hillary. I don't know, I'm trying to be conservative in my estimate here but it only stands to reason if only because of the 40% margin you mentioned previously.

If you're arguing that all 3.2 million MoveOn members are going to turn their backs on Hillary you've got another thought coming. Again, and this applies to MoveOn members as well, Hillary will not lose a single solitary vote over this. MoveOn members that support Hillary will continue to support her and Obama supporters will not.

THis is just something else for Obama people to whine about. Nothing more whatsoever. A real big deal about nothing

[truedelphi]

34. This might be the first time I have ever disagreed with you, Babylon

I disagree especially with "As far as "every member has a voice."
That simply isn't true.

They set the agenda and you have to folow it.

They wanted money money money in Sept and october of 2004. And they absolutely refused to make
the election machinery or the possibility of it being a stolen election anything of a concern. Even though they were given a lot of money money money.

I have never trusted them since.

I do like almost all the people I know who are Moveon members.

Here's what I don't like: it is too heavily a top down organization - they contact you, especially email - but there isn't much of a way for you to contact them.

[babylonsister]

35. The text is from MoveOn-I was the messenger.

:hi: Bill Maher's on; I have to watch!

[truedelphi]

45. Bill Maher has some awesome guests tonight

I have to watch a second time later this week - just to decipher the things that Cornell West said.

:hi:

[kster]

42. You can get all the people you want involved in the proccess,

but if you do not make the "election machinery or the possibility of it being a stolen election anything of a concern" Moveon will have a strong business because the majority of their members picked the person that should have won, if the "machine" riggs the election and Obama doesn't win, no sweat off their backs, Moveon stays strong.

Do not take it to heart because none of the candidates themselves are concerned with how their votes will be counted, because to date they all remain silent.

Its all a big club, AND YOUR NOT IN IT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU

[truedelphi]

44. I love that entire Carlin rant.

On my better days, I believe I'm in the club.

But it's a slightly different club than the one the Bastards have going.

In this club, the people who still are honorable, and still are honest have the power.

[Kittycat]

29. She's not insulting, "Move On" - she's insulting democrats.

3.2 million of them.

[Gman]

31. No she didn't and...

furthermore all "3.2 million" will not be pissed off at Hillary over this. The usual weak-willed that faint at the slightest hint of Hillary will be their usual selves. Other than that it's business as usual.

[NorthCarolina]

49. Please enlighten us to which of Move-On's positions you disagree with?

Besides their endorsement of Obama that is.

[Gman]

56. I don't give a flying phuck about MoveOn

they're an elitist organization that sucks up money. They are not a populist group by any definition except to suck up populist money and say the right populist things to keep sucking money.

[Juche]

25. I'll support Hillary

I prefer Obama, but Hillary is far better than McCain on the issues. The Clinton family has done alot of things for the US both in and out of politics. For example they helped start media matters, which has all the right wingers crazy because it calls them on their bullshit. Bill O'Reilly calls them nazis, so they must be doing a good job.

But she did attack Moveon with right wing talking points.

[Gman]

33. Why are "right wing talking points" so awful???

The Obama people consistently used them against Hillary from December up to and through Super-Tuesday.

That's what the Obama people have mastered. They are excellent at doing something then screaming and fainting if someone else does it.

I posted this just to make my point back in February: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4402815. It got over 200 posts, all Obama people sceaming like stuck pigs. It stayed up until I finally emailed the mods that I had made my point and to please lock it.

To show the hypocrisy, the very first post said, "No it isn't OK. Right Wing crap about Obama isn't allowed."

But of course posting RW crap about Hillary is.

[Juche]

46. which ones

Alot of the talking points I remember were about her being corporate or entitled. There were some talking points about her healthcare system requiring people to buy in but I don't remember other RW talking points.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

57. Right wing talking points are so awful because Dems are using them against each other

Both Clinton and Obama should be, at this stage of the game, talking more about McCain and how terrible his ideas and positions are rather than beating each other over the head. This only turns off the general voter and gives McCain more ammunition to use against us. McCain can stand aloof from this fight and look more "presidential" because it while the Democrats destroy each other.

I wish the convention were tomorrow and this thing decided so we can start the REAL fight, which is against McCain!

[eagertolearn]

41. I'm a Obama supporter who would vote for Hillary Clinton if

she won and most of the people I know would do the same. Where I hear the disgust is from republicans for some reason. They are usually okay with Obama but can't stand HC. As for Moveon.org I love them!!!!!! The last two elections made me so depressed especially in 2004 when I realized it was stolen by the people in control of the electronic voting machines and Moveon became a way to feel like I had a voice on issues. They are so quick at responding to issue's almost always of great importance to me. They are a very bright group of people who help ordinary people have a voice.

[bjobotts]

43. Get your facts straight. Less than 5% of their membership voted and Obama won

[Kittycat]

13. She also lied in that recording, and spouted off Rove talking points

on the Afghan war issue.

[dbmk]

40. So a group that was doing good work a year ago..

.. according to Senator Clinton herself - is suddenly doing bad work because they turned out, in clear majority at least, to support someone besides her?

That makes it alright for her to talk badly about them?

By that rationalisation its completely fair for Obama supporters to lob anything at the Clintons for not supporting Obama. And I am pretty sure you do not think that.

[Gman]

55. "That makes it alright for her to talk badly about them?"

You betchur ass.

"By that rationalisation its completely fair for Obama supporters to lob anything at the Clintons for not supporting Obama."

And you're saying that's not happening now? Surely that's a big joke.

[dbmk]

66. Exactly what I wasn't saying

I acknowledge that its happening. We can always argue how much of it is fair.

But by your argument is is all fair. _That was my point_.

But I figured you would miss it the way you did.


Lets say Mother Theresa, if she was alive, had said she preferred Obama over Hillary.
By your rationalisation it wouold then be ok for Hillary to come out and call her a crack smoking whore that eats kids for breakfast.

It simply cannot be enough that they think she is not the best for the job, to warrant such treatment. That is the outmost example of lack of empathy and respect.

[mhoran]

50. Bitter, much?

One more for the ignore list.

[Double T]

2. Ummmmm....Where the picture go????

Video NO LONGER available? Probably just some more BO propaganda. Nice Try obamanation!!!

[babylonsister]

3. It's there for me. Try again. It's video from Dan Abrams' program,

and your name calling is juvenile.

[Double T]

18. Yep. Finally got to view this BO propaganda introduced by Abrams.

HRC supported Moveon.org and its members UNTIL Moveon.org gave their support to BO. HRC would be an idiot to STILL support this run amok organization.

[Windy]

5. She's angry because of the support for Obama and the overwhelming outcry about the debate

200,000 signed a petition to send to ABC....


She's worried

[babylonsister]

6. Here's FDL's Jane Hamsher's take, and it's kind of kharmic

that this happened at a closed-door fundraiser. :evilgrin:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/18/hillary-clinton-attac... /

Hillary Clinton Attacks MoveOn
By: Jane Hamsher Friday April 18, 2008 3:50 pm


The Huffington Post has Hillary Clinton on tape disparaging Barack Obama and his support from MoveOn, saying that the organization "didn't even want us to go into Afghanistan.

I've tried to stay out of the pie fights of late, but as a long-term defender of MoveOn and other progressive organizations -- this is completely unacceptable.

"MoveOn opposed military action in Afghanistan" is a Republican talking point, articulated specifically and purposefully by Karl Rove:

Rove went on to say that conservatives wanted to "unleash the might and power" of the military against the Taliban in Afghanistan, while liberals wanted to submit petitions. He cited a petition he said was backed by MoveOn.org that called for "moderation and restraint" in responding to the attacks.

"I don't know about you, but moderation and restraint is not what I felt as I watched the twin towers crumble to the earth, a side of the Pentagon destroyed and almost 3,000 of our fellow citizens perish in flames and rubble," he said, according to the text.


I defended Hillary Clinton when she refused to bow to right wing pressure and condemn MoveOn over the "General Betrayus" ad (and was sad when she finally capitulated). MoveOn are valuable progressive partners who have been with us on Donna Edwards, net neutrality, trying to bring an end to the war, FISA, and other issues we've been fighting for.

They've accepted the challenge of organizing the left in the virtual arena and done an amazing job that the right struggles to replicate. They now have 3 million members, of which I'm one. And their skill at online organization and movement building has developed a model that both of the Democratic candidates have been able to copy and learn from, acting as a democratizing influence and making candidates more responsive to the public at large and less to high dollar donors.

MoveOn may not have opposed military action in Afghanistan (according to Eli Pariser in the Washington Post) but I did, because I was quite certain George Bush would bungle it and we'd just wind up spending billions on a bunch of junk that would make his buddies rich and a lot of poor people in the poorest country in the world would die senselessly. Sadly that turned out to be right, and disparaging anyone for challenging this country's unrelenting bellicosity during the Bush administration is wrong.

Does Hillary Clinton not want my vote either?

[localroger]

47. Welcome to 'Under the Bus'

Here, I'll climb up into the wheel well to make some room for you. It's getting awful crowded in here -- we got 40 states, everyone who ever voted in a caucus (lots of those people are under here TWICE), old friends, unions, and of course most of DU. If this keeps up there ain't gonna be anybody RIDING the bus except the Clintons themselves.

[FrenchieCat]

8. It is clearly a set up.....

to equate


NO war in Afghanistan + Move On calling General Betrays Us + liberal activists + elitist+ San francisco = Obama.

She trying to make Obama an extreme liberal.....just like McCain would.

I'm not falling for it.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. Frenchie, it'll backfire, as it already is.

A year ago she was praising their leadership and it's going to be seen as nothing but pandering. Clinton is losing because of this very reason, people do not believe her!

[Kittycat]

16. At this point, she's banking on Centrist Dems & Repukes.

The problem is - she's the most polarizing candidate out there. There is no way possible she could win, with what she is doing. If anything, she'll cause a break-off of the progressive party, from the DLC wing.

[Drunken Irishman]

17. It's about time.

People think DLC = working-class Democrats, but I have a feeling PA will prove Obama is driving into her base. He may not win, but he'll do well among working-class voters.

[Clovis Sangrail]

39. do you think she realizes

that a bunch of her 'supporters' are republicans that have no intention of voting for her in the GE ?

[localroger]

48. She doesn't care

That's a problem for tomorrow, which will take care of itself as they do new focus groups and spot polls and identify the wedge issues they need to draw off the swing voters like Bill did in 1996. But it's a game she doesn't get to play if she doesn't win this one, and she can't win the GE at all unless she gets the nom. As for the chances of anyone else who might win the nom, well there's lots more room under this here bus.

[rurallib]

14. She's starting to sound like Hannity.

[Preston120]

20. What's New?

She was for NAFTA, she is against NAFTA. She was Goldwater's Girl, now she appears to favor John McCain. I think people worth over 100 million have a hard time understanding poor people. This country has two sets of law. One for rich folks, one for poor folks. Two sets of health care, One for rich folks, one for poor folks. As I said What's New ?

[brindis_desala]

28. The Clintons: always there when they need you

[Politicalboi]

32. Damned Sexist

At MoveOn. Don't they know they should support Hillary no matter how slimy she runs her campaign. I mean MoveOn would be nowhere had it not been for Bill's BJ. They should be kissing Bill's ass. He made them what they are today. And this is the thanks they get :sarcasm:

[evolvingsteve]

38. BURN!

Gotcha's gonna Getcha!



:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Zachstar]

51. This is going to really do damage to her May campaign!

MoveOn is well respected by a great many people who are going to be quite alienated by these comments from her.

Along with screw em gate she will lose support she can't afford to lose.

[Cant trust em]

52. Look who's bitter now.

What a shame.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

53. Wasn't MoveOn started to help Bill Clinton?

If memory serves, its premise was that it was a waste of time and resources to impeach Bill Clinton and that he should have been simply censured or something like that, so the country could "move on". If this is correct, for Hillary Clinton to speak disparagingly of them now simply because the membership endorsed another candidate is showing, at the very least, a lack of appreciation. I would predict that she has lost a lot of potential supporters who are affiliated with that organization. This will bode ill for the Democrats in the GD if she wins the nomination, because the MoveOn folks are activists--the ones willing to call people to remember to vote, drive voters to the polls, etc.

[Gman]

59. That was 10 years ago and completely irrelevant to today

People like Paul Begala and James Carville were involved with MoveOn's formation. Do you think old Clinton people are still part of the power structure of MoveOn? MoveOn's agenda has changed because the leadership changes. MoveOn has been taken over by nuts. There's not a single solitary vote in MoveOn's membership that Hillary will lose that Obama didn't already have.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

61. Still, appearances are important in politics

I'm somewhat of a political junkie, but didn't know what you just told me. Now take a person who is less informed than me--how will they view this? If Clinton wished to not agree with MoveOn, she could have talked about what they are about today--how they have lost touch, as you say. This would have been enlightening and informative. What she said really was not.

[NJmaverick]

60. Not surprising at all- that is the essense of Hillary

say anything and do anything to get what she wants. She doesn't have a values or principles, beyond a lust for power.

[Chalco]

63. MOVE ON ENDORSED OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!

Why shouldn't she attack them? You people are so stupid. You make things up. They attacked her, she attacked them back. End of story. She is not two faced, she did not flip flop.

[Faux pas]

64. I'm tired of seeing both her faces and hearing her forked tongue.

I wish she's just drop out already, she's giving Dems a worse name.

[grassfed]

65. no whining indeed