TYT Absurd News Alert: Good Reason to Not Carry Guns

[ihavenobias]

Run time: 02:08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBo4KG_z7pk   Posted on YouTube: June 26, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 26, 2008 By DU Member: ihavenobias Views on DU: 2754

 
Also check out this Great Citizen Tube Interview of Cenk: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x151697

Also read Cenk's new article, on The Group Of 15 (Senators We can Be Proud Of: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3524426&mesg_id=3524426

PS---Keep in mind that you can download the first hour of The Young Turks free every day through Itunes. Also, the show loops 24 hours a day at www.theyoungturks.com

[CherylK]

1. K & R!

[1Hippiechick]

37. Memo to self: ABSURD news alert: Key word here is ABSURD - avoid - too idiotic...

[CherylK]

39. Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today!

;)

[1Hippiechick]

41. Absolutely not. Too over the top - would have been funnier if it had had kept me wondering if it was

on the level or not, IMHO. Of course, ABSURD was there in big, bold letters.....duh....

:thumbsdown:

[ihavenobias]

42. Yeah come on, when it says Absurd News Alert you have to expect a certain something

I would've posted the other absurd story about the peeping Tom who stuck his phone...uh, well, I'll leave it at that.

The point is the mods would've locked the thread, even though it was perfect for a Friday.

[gateley]

2. I hope this guy gets nailed.

Although I do believe in our right to bear arms (for the RIGHT reasons), there are always yahoos like this.

But guys like this will have a gun regardless of whether it's legal or not, so.....

[ihavenobias]

4. Having a gun for hunting or home/family protection is one thing

But I'm REALLY bothered by the idea of young, dumb drunk idiots with guns at bars and clubs, especially in the cities (like here in Chicago).

[OhioChick]

7. Agreed. n/t

[fascisthunter]

3. The Right to Carry is Like Setting Up a Ticking Time Bomb

It's why we all pay for law enforcement so that this crap just doesn't happen as much as it would if we turned the clock back to the Wild West.

[L0oniX]

6. I wish law enforcement would find the home invasion murderers in my county.

They are worthless.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Impossible.

How many police officers are there per citizen? I tried to do the math on this once, and ended way out beyond the fifth decimal place. There aren't enough police to protect you, and they are not legally required to do so. (Gonzalez vs. Castle Rock) Protection is an entirely different role than enforcing the law.

I DO believe the police WILL protect you if they can. But that 'if they can' is a pretty big 'if', even if you only consider how many officers there are per citizen.

No one is asking to turn the clock back to the 'wild west'. That would be horrible. Licensed concealed carry is nothing like the Wild West. They didn't have licenses, they didn't have training requirements, background checks, etc etc. (Granted some states do not have training requirements, but background checks are federal)

As for the video above, "9 times out of 10" is completely fallacious. Police departments keep tabs on when concealed carry permit holders commit crimes. Step one is to revoke the permit if they do commit a crime, so this data is readily available (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html). It has been shown over and over that CWP holders are many many times LESS likely to commit a crime than your average citizen. If '9 times out of 10' was true, it would be easily demonstrable. That was a lie. I don't like people who lie to support a political agenda. (Hence my intense dislike for BushCo)

We have hard, and important work to do in meaningful, crime-reducing Constitutional gun control. Let's not screw it up by supporting people who lie about polarizing issues.

Getting back to the video, I don't see a lot of facts here. The people in the video are apparently not familiar with the concept of Innocent Until Proven Guilty. Assuming some 18 year old kid wouldn't attack him is really just another form of prejudice, never mind the apparent assumption that the teenager was black, and that a jury will certainly be guilty of racial bias, if it finds the gun owner not guilty. The facts will come out in a trial. Best to wait on assuming guilt until after a trial, if any.

Edit: Whoops, guess I wandered outside the gungeon, back into my hole...

[ihavenobias]

9. 2 Things about the video

1)-This clip was from the Absurd News Alert segment which is a lighthearted clump of stories that are wacky or "absurd". Cenk and Ana (openly) don't bother to do much digging and research on these, as they're really meant to simply be fun and or entertaining. The ANA's take place in the post game show which is aired after the more serious regular politics show each day. Just an FYI for context.

2)-"9 times out of 10" was *obviously* hyperbole. Obvious to me anyway.

PS---Cenk has a clip on the Supreme Court ruling that I'll post at some point in the next day or two.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Ok, if it's a humor segment

I should probably cut a little slack I guess. I'm not familiar with this show. I still think the segment was a bad idea. I could easily see it turning off people who might be on the fence on this issue, nor not familiar with the facts behind concealed carry, or worse than just turning them off, it could ingrain total misconceptions.

I disagree with your point on hyperbole. This wasn't just an exaggeration, it was a complete, 100% opposite of the truth statement. No basis in reality. If it happened a lot, if it was maybe 50% or greater of the concealed carry permit holding population, I'd buy that exaggeration, but it's not even 1%. Its such an exaggeration, I'd call it dishonest. Maybe that's just me.

[ihavenobias]

11. "Dishonest" implies an active attempt to distort the truth

Rather than an honest act of what one believes to be exaggeration, which I believe is the case here (and assuming that you're correct).

At any rate, I've gotta be honest, guns are pretty low on my priority list. Fine, have them for home and hunting. But no way in hell you'll convince me that having everyone carrying guns in densely populated cities is a smart idea.

A lot of the people who now go to bars and clubs with the smoking ban will head back home if the gun ban is repealed.

PS---Get familiar with the show, it's awesome :) Don't let this one clip form your opinion. It covers stories you often won't hear anywhere else, and in addition to being informative, it's often funny and entertaining.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Each State

Has it's own requirements for Concealed Carry. I cannot speak for every state, but I know that one requirement here in Washington State is pretty common: You cannot carry, even with a permit, in any establishment that displays a license to serve liquor, in the area of that establishment where the serving takes place.

So that means, in this state, you can't go to a bar with a concealed pistol, even with the permit, without committing a crime just by being there. That regulation is in no danger of being overturned by Heller vs. DC.

RCW 9.41.300

"(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or"

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

[ihavenobias]

13. Except for one thing

If it's legal to carry, people are more likely to bring their guns into bars.

"Oh damn, I took a cab here and forgot to leave it at home", etc. I'm not trying to make a slippery slope argument, I'm just pointing out the often practical reality.

Will we start having metal detectors in bars? Honestly, I'm wondering.

PS---Russ Feingold joined The Young Turks yesterday for a great segment: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x151406

[AtheistCrusader]

14. People may do that

But they risk imprisonment, permanent loss of the permit and the firearm. I think it unlikely. Even someone lawfully using a firearm in self defense inside a bar (except the proprietor him or herself) could lead to charges, and loss of the permit and firearm, even if the shooting was justifiable.

CPL holders tend to be good people. They jump through hoops, pay fees, and voluntarily file thier fingerprints with the FBI in the process of obtaining the license. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, some idiots, and even some bad people will slip through the requirements, no doubt. Statistically speaking, it's a pretty low priority to me.

We could probably use a training requirement on the use, both functionality wise, and legality wise, of concealed carry applications. This state doesn't have that. (I think Florida does, but I could be wrong)

Watching that other video now...

[ihavenobias]

15. Now that we agree on

More training requirements are needed, no doubt about it. And we need to enforce the laws that are already on the books.

PS---Here's another great clip on impeachment with some excellent points on infrastructure: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=151057&mesg_id=151057

[AtheistCrusader]

16. This FISA clip is fantastic.

Kind of creepy, they are asking questions I would ask, given the opportunity. This is much much better.

As an aside, Feingold impresses me on a number of topics, this was just one of them. Considering how strongly blue my state is, it bothers me that I don't have representation like him on the Senate floor.

[ihavenobias]

17. I'm happy that Dick Durbin was on the list of 15

Along with Feingold:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/the-group-of-15_b_109375.html

[Squatch]

19. The reason I carry a concealed pistol is because a cop is too heavy.

Hey, check out this link.

I think it's safe to say you're obsessed.

:eyes:

[Joe Fields]

20. He isn't the one walking around with a pistol.

Obsession? Look in a mirror.

[Squatch]

22. I also walk around with shoes, my wallet, a shirt,

a pair of pants, but you wouldn't say I'm "obessessed" with those things, would you? Sometimes I carry, sometimes I don't...but I rather enjoy the FREEDOM to make my own choice on the matter.

[Joe Fields]

23. What kind of argument is that?

I sometimes eat an orange. I sometimes pick my nose. If you feel threatened enough that you believe you have need of carrying a gun, then you are the one who is obsessed.

Wearing clothing? Again, I must express my amazement at the lack of logic there.

[Squatch]

24. For the slow kids in the back of the classroom, my point was

that, for me, carrying a gun is no big deal. I sometimes carry a gun as part of my job and I sometimes carry a gun when I'm not at work. It's as much an accessory as a watch, a pair of shoes, etc.

[Joe Fields]

25. You'd better stop before you get even further behind.

That last statement was even dumber than your clothing analogy. Accessory? WTF? No big deal?

First of all, clothing is not optional, unlike accessories. Accessories are accessories. You know, like ear rings and necklaces, watches, etc... So do you wear your gun around your neck? Do you have matching Smith & Wesson ear rings? Your cavaleire attitude toward firearms is one big reason why I am opposed to conceal carry. Too many people like you walking around, obsessed with their "accessories."

[Squatch]

26. First, you can cram your judgement of me squarely up your ass

Secondly, my gun and my choice to carry my gun does not, in any way, shape, or form affect you. I've got 12 years of professional experience with all sorts of firearms, I compete regularly with my firearms, I am a certified firearms instructor, and I practice all the right safety measures. So, no...carrying a gun, to me, is not a big deal. To me, it *is* as natural as putting on a pair of shoes or a watch.

[Joe Fields]

28. Well, I see you have a hair trigger on that temper.

I imagine the same applies to your "logic" concerning the use of your beloved gun in public?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. I know a lot of cops who have the same attitude he does.

I don't know why you would insist on calling police officers obsessed just because carrying a gun is no big deal to them. That seems kind of silly.

David

[Joe Fields]

34. Do I insist on calling police officers obsessed?

I don't recall ever saying that, Dave. Maybe you could point out just where it is that I said that.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. You need to read more carefully.

You wrote, "Your cavaleire attitude toward firearms is one big reason why I am opposed to conceal carry. Too many people like you walking around, obsessed with their "accessories."

So if cops have the same attitude he has, aren't they equally obsessed. I never quoted you as saying anything. Feel free to clarify what you really meant.

David

[Joe Fields]

36. I read very carefully. You should try doing it.

First of all, you haven't made the case that cops have a cavaliere attitude toward carrying guns.

Secondly, even if they did, they are very well trained in the use of weapons, something that the average conceal/carry permit holder isn't. I know that they aren't because by law they are not required to go through the rigorous firearms training that cops go through.

Thirdly, has the guy that I was discussing this with declared himself to be a cop? No.

Tell you what, Dave. I'll put my own words in my mouth, and you brush up on your cognitive skills.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. I carry

a CPR mask, first aid kit, and keep my search and rescue stuff in my car, even at work. Am I 'obsessed'?

I think the word you were looking for is 'prepared'.

[Joe Fields]

29. No, I used the word I felt appropriate to describe the majority of

conceal carry advocates.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. I do that too.

I carry tools used to protect human life. A firearm, and a CPR mask fall in that category. Same reason Police Officers carry their guns, to protect human life.

I haven't had to use either in the last 8 or so years, but the First Aid kit has come in extremely handy from time to time.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. Call me obsessed with defibrillators there is one in my trunk at all times.

Along with my golf clubs (that probably is an obsession).

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. That bomb has been ticking in Washington State since 1961.

Funny how it's pretty safe yet places with strong gun control are like the wild west (D.C. and Chicago). I wonder what that does to your argument?

David

[Joe Fields]

38. Statistics and sources, Dave?

They would be nice to have, if you are to sway anyone's opinion.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. Murder Rates, major cities

For 2005. Seattle, 4.3 per 100k, New York, 6.6 per 100k, Chicago, 15.6 per 100k.

We've had must-issue with no training requirement Concealed Carry in Washington State since 1961, as Dave mentioned. Our murder rate is lower than the national average, 1/3 lower than New York, and holy crap, what the hell is going on in Chicago?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004902.html

[StClone]

5. Great One-way Experiment

Interpreting The 2nd Scalia's way people will one day say "Oops that was a mistake" but there will be no way back.

[Plucketeer]

18. Easy Cenk

Surely this fella was carrying his "Well-Regulated Militia" card. That's his "out". Besides, why was that poor, defenseless teen totin'?

[Chulanowa]

21. Well of course he was assaulted!

Everyone who shoots anyone is ALWAYS assaulted first. Didn't you know?

Also, everyone in prison was framed, no politician ever knew about the embezzlement, and yes honey I'm just having a drink at the bar with the guys