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BlueJessamine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 11:54 AM
Original message
Fight FISA on TV
Edited on Sat Jul-26-08 11:59 AM by BlueJessamine
 
Run time: 00:36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8KmBNufzmQ
 
Posted on YouTube: July 25, 2008
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: July 26, 2008
By DU Member: BlueJessamine
Views on DU: 1609
 
This is an important message -- a crucial message, even.

And it deserves to be brought to the attention of every American who cares about the Constitution and the future of freedom in our country.


The video's up on our site -- check it out, and if you're interested in getting it on the air, there are some surprsingly affordable prices, as little as $21 at off-peak times in zip code 27601 (Raleigh). Some ad slots more expensive, of course: a single airing in the 4 pm-12am slot in 90036 (LA) on Fox News runs $1750. Something we'll need to figure out is how to aggregate smaller amounts of contributions to get these big ticket items; it might make sense for us to partner with Accountability Now or somebody else. Details TBD, but think about the possibilities.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is a postition we find ourself in because a majority of
elected officials don't want to make waves. They "Democratic leaders" want to move carefully into this election with a candidate who voted to support this terrible bill.
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BlueJessamine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's why it is important
that we ask Congress to revisit the flawed FISA Amendments law, and safeguard the people's rights under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.



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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I agree.
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BlueJessamine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Thanks midnight!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great idea. I'll be supporting that ad campaign.
When it starts airing we'll get the usual blowblack from the incumbents who voted for the FISA bill. That's when we'll need a followup ad to counter their prevarications. But that's for later.


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BlueJessamine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks bertman!
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rabies1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Powerful and to the point.
Great ad.
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BlueJessamine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thankyou!
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punkpatriot411 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. I found out that I was illegally wiretapped...
The MCLU was able to sue Verizon for a lsit of people in Maine who were illegally wiretapped.

I'm #1 on page 6.

I would love to be able to sue the jerks who trampled all over my constitutional rights, but Obama and others voted to TAKE MY RIGHT TO SUE AWAY.

There is no way in hell I'm voting for Obama in 08.

What's more is he's LYING now.

he lied during the primaries when gravel pointed out that most of his money wasn't coming from small donations, but from BUNDLERS. Obama said that "the reason you know about that is because of a bill I wrote that makes campaign fundraising information public."

Well, I don't know about now, but at the time, that bill (which he didn't write) hadn't even made it out of committee yet, let alone come to a vote on the floor. HE'S A LIAR AND HE VIOLATED MY PURSUIT OF JUSTICE.

More recently he lied in Israel, saying that he was on the Banking Committee. He's not ON that committee! Why the hell is he lying?

I don't trust the guy any further than I can throw him.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm sorry that you have to find out that your rights have been
trampled on. How were you able to get the MCLU to get this information for you?
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Then you don't belong here.

Enjoy your (brief) stay.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. i'm sure it did enjoy the brief stay
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Very sorry to hear that you are on the list. I suspect that soon ALL DU'ERS WILL BE ON IT.
I appreciate your pointing out these Obama shortcomings. Personally, I want all the information I can get about our Candidate. You're not the only one who's upset with Obama for some of his position statements and his FISA vote. Count me in that group.

Let me offer an excuse for our man Hopey. This is serious, so please don't take it as a joke. My understanding is that he has been traveling via aircraft and seeing heads of state and other indignitaries (as an old friend of mine calls them) for days and weeks on end. He's up at the crack of dawn and climbs in the rack in the wee hours. So, when he gives (READS) a speech that was written by a staffer who may have thought he was on Banking, or wanted to conflate his resume, he reads the line and in the split second after reading it, when he might be able to TRY to explain it in a reasonable way, he decides it's not worth correcting and looking like he's a fool. So, instead he looks like a liar to the 18 people who actually know he's not on Banking and who also have heard or read the speech.

As far as the other stuff about the campaign contributions, I wondered why he kept pushing the small donor claim when it was obvious he was getting big bucks from the bundlers. He has had the most broad-based support from the little people, but I think he should have qualified his explanation.


Bottom line, Bob Barr and Cynthia McKinney aren't going to do anything but syphon off votes from the Big Two. Dare say, if you read every statement either of them made in the campaign you'd probably pick up a stray lie or two.

I STILL FEEL THE HOPE WHEN I SEE AND HEAR OBAMA, so I'm gonna stick with him until he wins or he totally pisses me off. Right now, he's good.




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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The poster was lying ...

S/he never saw such a list.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. And how do you know this?
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Verizon never provided such a list ...
Edited on Sun Jul-27-08 12:39 PM by RoyGBiv
The Maine Civil Liberties Union in conjunction with 21 private individuals sued Verizon seeking to determine whether the company had cooperated with the NSA in monitoring real-time telephone communications and e-mail. The Maine Public Utilities Commission (PUC) issued an order demanding Verizon turn over such information, to which Verizon responded that it could neither confirm or deny whether it had participated in such activities. The Federal Government then sought an injunction against the PUC regarding the order. The case is UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, v. KURT ADAMS, et al., Defendants.

The injunction was granted on February 8, 2007.

CASE SUMMARY

PROCEDURAL POSTURE: The Maine Public Utilities Commission (PUC) issued a subpoena commanding a telephone company to show cause why it should not be held in contempt for its failure to comply with a PUC order in an action brought by telephone company customers. Plaintiff United States sued defendants, Chairman of the PUC, PUC members in their official capacities, and a telephone company, and moved to enjoin the PUC from attempting to force compliance with its order.

OVERVIEW: The telephone company issued press releases, which the PUC read as denying that it provided Maine customer records or call data to federal agencies and asserting that it did not provide such agencies with direct, unfettered access to the telephone company's network or data. The PUC's order directed the telephone company to file an affirmation that its representations were true and not misleading. Upon the motion of the United States, the court determined that the circumstances of the case--the United States suing the state of Maine based on concerns over national security--made abstention inappropriate. Applying the four-factor test for injunctive relief, the court concluded that the United States had demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits. The Director of the National Security Agency submitted a sworn statement that the telephone company could not respond to the PUC investigation without harming national security. The interests of safeguarding potentially destructive information and of maintaining the status quo to allow a federal court to properly assess all relevant information weighed heavily in favor of the United States, and injunctive relief was granted.

OUTCOME: The court granted the motion of the United States for a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction. The court preliminarily enjoined the PUC members in their official capacities from attempting to enforce the PUC order or the contempt subpoena against the telephone company, or from holding any hearing in connection with the matter. The court also preliminarily enjoined the telephone company from any response to the PUC in the matter.


The matter was of course immediately appealed.

As of March 13, 2008 the appeals court held essentially that Verizon would have been breaking the law had it cooperated with the NSA, but the matter of whether Verizon did cooperate and what information they may have given to federal officials or what was done with it remained undecided as it was held up in the federal government's "state secrets" argument. The judge declined to offer a ruling of that portion of the argument, pending a similar matter before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in California.

Then came FISA, which has in effect voided all these lawsuits.

The issue is complicated by PUC's approval of the sale of Verizon's assets in Maine to FairPoint telecommunications.

In any event, the lawsuit the MCLU initially brought was never definitively decided in court, and Verizon never handed over anything to the PUC.

Of course, I didn't need to do all that to figure it out, but I got curious, so I went digging. One of the points of the debate over telecom immunity was what it would do to discovery issues if criminal charges were ever sought. What the ACLU, EFF, et al have been attempting to do all this time and what the federal government has been trying to prevent is positive discovery of documentary information regarding the NSA's wiretapping scheme, documentation that could be used in further civil or criminal proceedings. At the time of the FISA vote, none of these lawsuits had been decided, and the ACLU's basic argument against FISA's telecommunications immunity provision was that it would prevent them from ever being decided.

In other words, no one (outside the NSA anyway) has seen a list of names of people who were wiretapped, ergo, he was lying.
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