Rachel Maddow stumbles upon Chris Matthews' McCain worship

[krkaufman]

Run time: 01:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_laCT0BhwoA   Posted on YouTube: September 20, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 20, 2008 By DU Member: krkaufman Views on DU: 5094

 
Rachel Maddow confronts Chris Matthews with evidence of John McCain's founding membership in the "Next up, Baghdad!" club, including McCain's comments on Matthews' own show immediately after the 9/11 attacks.

Matthews twists, turns & spins as he resists the knowledge, before shifting to a defense of McCain, as the media is wont to do, rationalizing McCain's failure of judgment on Iraq as forgivable -- owing to McCain's past military service and sacrifice.

From MSNBC's Service Forum coverage, on 9/11/2008.

---

And people wonder how this election is still close.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. I'm soooo sick of this "He's a hero" shit

Just because he was in the military. Hundreds of thousands of people have been in the service so what the fuck? Sign up at the recruiters and POOF...instantly you are a hero? Man have we let that bar fall too low.

[Ah Xoc Kin]

52. hero? what bullcrap

- 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians, and 58,159 U.S. soldiers died in Vietnam.

- John McCain flew 23 carpet bombing missions over North Vietnam.

Carpet bombing a city is not heroism.

[JoeySoCal]

2. You know what? Chris Mathews did just fine. In fact, classy and upright.

Whether or not its what you want to hear, the point that he made is sound and relevant. Of course it doesn't necessarily change anything, but he's entitled to such a perspective. Obviously he has known John McCain personally for a long time and feels strongly not to disparage him. Liberals know as well as anyone that relationships do matter to human beings, whatever your line of work. So the way Chris handled it here, in the context of a 'journalisticish' forum, was respectable. IMHO.

[pretzel4gore]

8. he's a well greased media slut, an 'alpha sissy'

lookit the damage this one mercenary punk has done....almost beyond calculation. Mathews needs the dp....and he'll get it, soon, let's hope

[lynnertic]

13. I second that. Score one for respectability. n/t

[The Liberal Thinker]

17. I agree.

I think we fall into a trap by accusing taking who has anything good to say about the other side and calling them a fascist neo-con collaborator or whatnot.

[jhrobbins]

23. Yeah, well, you know-if you're not for us then you're against us ;)

or something like that (haven't we heard a version of this before), right-at least it seems that way here lately. If you don't want to shoot all conservatives, then you cannot possibly be a liberal. So, get out of here, you Republican sympathizer, you Quisling, you Benedict Arno.....well, you get my drift. :sarcasm:

[krkaufman]

39. Thanks for the rational response.

Oh, wait, I see the difference.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=194442&mesg_id=194464

[krkaufman]

30. The OP is not talking about ripping Matthews for praising McCain ...

... for some particular act or characteristic. It is criticizing Matthews for completely avoiding the issue Rachel is highlighting, and then making an excuse for McCain's colossal failure in judgment in advocating the invasion of Iraq.

I have no problem praising McCain where he deserves it, but he certainly shouldn't be excused for championing the invasion of Iraq merely because he served in the military and was a POW 40 years ago.

The inability to be objective, here, would appear to not be restricted to the OPer.

;)

[knixphan]

50. seconded.

He avoided the issue of Iraq-sabre-rattling on 9/11.

[krkaufman]

32. "fascist neo-con collaborator"

Really? Is that what the OP called Matthews? In fact, was Matthews labelled in ANY fashion in the OP, or were only his actions and words criticized?

At worst, I referred to Matthews' "hero worship" of McCain, and it can hardly be argued that his words fell far short of literally that.

[Truth2Tell]

49. Are we falling into a trap

when we let them use the military service issue to divert from the question on the table - which in this case was whether or not he foolishly pimped the Iraq war from day one? Why should we let them divert every criticism into his war service? I think maybe you have the traps confused.

[trumad]

24. Joey--- sorry pal.... but you're pretty fucking ignorant....

[Buzz Clik]

26. I really like the way you worked through the logic of your response.

Everyone now agrees with you. :sarcasm:

[Buzz Clik]

25. My reaction exactly. Well stated.

[krkaufman]

29. The flaw in your commentary is that you presume Rachel's criticism was "disparaging" of McCain ...

... rather than merely being critical of his immense failure in judgment in advocating the war in Iraq. And Matthews literally saying that he cuts McCain more slack than others, in regards to that judgment, because of McCain's service, and because McCain hasn't held Matthews' lack of military service against him, is utter nonsense. If McCain's judgment on the Iraq war had somehow been informed by his military service would be one thing, but merely granting McCain the benefit of the doubt because he once served in the military is literally ridiculous.

Further, you don't address Matthews' obvious discomfort with and avoidance of the entire subject, as he squirms and spins as soon as it becomes obvious that Rachel is referencing Matthews' own show in demonstrating McCain's uninformed advocacy of attacking Iraq.

McCain was a staunch advocate of invading Iraq, and not enough media outlets have made that point clear. Instead, the media focuses on McCain's supposed support for a single military tactic that no one would have disputed, that an increase in US forces would produce a localized reduction in violence. Duh.

McCain's judgment needs to be evaluated not based on, in his words, knowing "how to win wars" -- but on his not knowing how to keep us out of unnecessary wars.

[lumpy]

42. Mathews doesn't like to hear the truth. He is in denial that McCain

spoke about going after Iraq after 9/11. Mathews may worship McCain's heroism, but he still was trying to deny McCain was wanting to go after Iraq. It may be commendable that Mathews respects McCain but he should not to the point of trying to suppress th truth. THat is simply not commendable.

[Quantess]

45. I think so, too.

[President Decider]

3. Anyone who knows Matthews knows he's quietly pulling for Obama. He just won't diss McCain doing so

[krkaufman]

33. Who's saying he should "diss" McCain? Where "diss", of course, comes from "disrespect"

The OP is merely gawking at the fact that Matthews was unable to have a rational discussion of McCain's obvious advocacy and championing of the invasion of Iraq. It is not "dissing" someone to discuss and acknowledge their actions; but it can be considered bending over to provide cover for someone's misdeeds and failures of judgment.

[Overseas]

4. Pity Matthews just couldn't say he was sorry to see McSame push the Iraq war.

ANd he was also sorry McSame had voted against veterans in many cases.

Why he couldn't say he was disappointed in McSame's doing those things because he respected his service.

For goodness' sake, Chris, you're talking to Rachel who does her homework, but even so, it is not really tough to find that information that McSame was right in there with the war mongers, going after Iraq even though so many of the alleged hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. And even though Al Qaeda hated Sadaam for being an infidel and allowing too much Westernization in his country.

[jberryhill]

16. You can see it in his face, though

I wasn't crazy about John McCain in 2000, but I could see the appeal.

John McCain is not the same person he used to be.

[krkaufman]

38. Actually, McCain *is* the same person he used to be.

What has changed is the image he needed to construct in order to get elected. In 2000, he needed to be more centrist, knowing Bush was the Right Wing, religious Right favorite. And ever since he's been shifting further Right in order to go after the religious Right, but could never win them back fully -- until he was ordered to select Palin.

[krkaufman]

34. Exactly. I'm cracking up at the people in this thread who are acting like Matthews ...

... was being respectful and fair. The basic point is the one you made, that Matthews was unable to really acknowledge McCain's responsibility in advocating and championing the invasion of Iraq. He was literally squirming with discomfort from the moment he recognized the direction Rachel was taking the conversation, and redirected it as soon as he could to praise for McCain's service.

What seemed obvious to me, was that Matthews' comment that McCain has never held Matthews' lack of military service against him indicates that Matthews deems his own service, in the Peace Corps, as less worthy and so feels guilt and is deferential to McCain.

[Gap Spanner]

5. McCain - 'Whack-Job?'

Okay, forget the middle part where Chris Matthew talks about McCain’s service and listen to what he says when Maddow quotes the countries McCain wanted to go after..

Chris Matthews: “Wasn’t that Michael LaDeen? Wasn’t that Michael LaDeen? Didn’t you get him mixed up with Michael LaDeen, one of the real far out whack-jobs on this? No there are so many ideologues I’ve had on this show. I didn’t realize it was John McCain; your research is good! I mean there’s so many of these guys that wanted to go in you know…”

Did Chris Matthews essentially call John McCain a ‘whack-job’ and an ‘ideologue?’ Even after defending McCain’s service (not related to the question at all), Chris Matthews ends this segment with, “…but you’ve done great research there.”

John McCain – the ‘whack-job’ ‘Ideologue?’

[DallasNE]

6. Matthews Has A Long History Of Being Sexist

Maybe part of his problem here is that Maddow is the one confronting him with his prior words.

I have prior military service yet that didn't blind me from seeing through the false claims against Iraq prior to the invasion. I even predicted that no WMD would be found because I put much more faith in the the UN weapons inspectors said that I did in what Bush said. McCain should have had far better access to data than myself. It is shameful that Matthews would let McCain off the hook for being so terriby wrong about such an important issue.

[lynnertic]

14. Maddow's a breath of fresh air, and her intelligence and poise

let her knock them over with a feather. She's doing really well, and I bet these guys are happy to be able to actually debate a point instead of scream at each other. She's really changing the 'politico' landscape.

[The Wielding Truth]

31. Hallelujah! It is so true that she is a window to truth. We need more

of her intelligence on MSM. I am so sick of the selling off of our country by the greedy corporate lawyers who work though the me first Republicons.

[krkaufman]

41. Exactly the point. Matthews is "cutting McCain slack" because of McCain's prior military service ..

... as though that somehow mitigates McCain's failure of judgment in advocating for the Iraq war, and McCain's failure to assimilate the available data and see that the WMD story was a myth.

Matthews appears to have some built-in psychological issue, Daddy complex?, that drives him to grovel at the feet of those authoritarians who cloak themselves as patriots.

[madmax]

7. Rachel!!!! PLEASE

Dig up some clips of Tweety spitting and salivating while cutting Gore to ribbons in 2000. He called President Gore a 'serial liar', a Zelig who says he invented the internet". I thought I was going to have a stroke out over 2000 lies from NObALLS.

It's weird to hear him lately. He's a scumbag and I'll never forgive him for all the bullshit he spewed during '00 and '04. He wasn't much better to Kerry.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

9. I could remember on election day 2004...

...He spewed the findings of a poll which "proved", that it's republicans over democrats who are more likely to recycle; and how republicans drive mini vans where democrats drive SUVs.

I think of that almost every time I drop my recycles to the curb, and hop into my mini van.

[starroute]

10. Someone should tell Matthews his Peace Corps service is more honorable

... than McCain's bombing North Vietnamese factory workers.

It's the cravenness of Matthews saying that McCain has never looked down on him for serving in the Peace Corps and not in the military that bugs me. Why should Matthews feel he has something to apologize for? Why should he imply for one moment that McCain is one-up on him for being in the service of war rather than peace?

Our country is so ass-backwards that Matthews doesn't even realize the narrative he's feeding. But I wish that just once someone would point it out to him.

[krkaufman]

35. I think that's the key, that Matthews himself deems his service as less worthy ...

... and so he's deferential to McCain, and many others who put on patriotic airs.

[hvn_nbr_2]

11. "You do great research"

Translation: "You do your fuckin' job, unlike the rest of us. You got me."

[knitter4democracy]

12. With just a touch of paternalistic sexism, there.

Why not reach out and pat her on the head while you're at it? Sheesh.

[dhpgetsit]

15. Matthews has a crush on McCain.

I have a crush on Maddow. :loveya:

[Snotcicles]

18. Words out, Rachel Maddow does great research. The real bitch is, she uses it. nt

[whistle]

19. "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away" -- General Douglas MacArthur

...John McCain needs to just fade away now

[lumpy]

48. Yea verily

Fade away John, fade away.

[Old and In the Way]

20. Deference to warmongers is what got us into Iraq.

Matthews was on the bus for that. He claims he was against the war, but the depth and breadth of his shows tell us otherwise. Don't forget his Bush hero-worship during the "Mission Accomplished" carrier photo-op. I can't blame Matthews completely, the entire media class was actively or passively supporting the attack on Iraq. I will say Matthews seems to be atoning for his sins somewhat now....better than most commentators of that period.

[krkaufman]

40. There's no question that Matthews isn't a Fox News host ...

... but I find his almost subconscious groveling in this video clip to be creepy, and disconcerting.

[Bette Noir]

21. That's not McCain worship.

He's trying to be fair.

There's plenty to attack McCain on that is true, and Matthews does it. All he said is, "He's not a chicken hawk." That is true-- the chicken hawks are people like Bush and Cheney who, with a personal history of avoiding combat service, start wars for other people to die in.

McCain served: that's all Matthews said. He didn't say he wanted him elected. He seemed sad through this whole thing, like Olbermann seemed sad when Hillary started race-baiting halfway through the primaries, for the same reason-- watching someone they had long liked and admired behaving badly.

[krkaufman]

37. Sorry, but that wasn't all Matthews said. As soon as he recognized the direction Rachel was going

... he started squirming and redirecting. He was completely unwilling to address the substance of what Rachel was talking about, and, further, he literally said he cuts McCain much more slack because of McCain's military service. Exactly how does McCain's service automatically negate criticism of his colossal failure of judgment in advocating for the Iraq invasion?

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Tweety is a coward...

Scared Jack Welch will fire his butt!

[defendandprotect]

27. Why is Matthews even on Maddow's show...? He doesn't get enough air time?

All this served to show - AGAIN - is that Matthews is serving GE/GOP right wing --

Rachel could have shown this truth about McCain in many other ways rather than

giving Matthews a few minutes to discuss Mc Cain's military service.

[bookman]

28. Apparently...

...no Republicans are willing to appear with Rachel. Heat? Kitchen? :)

[defendandprotect]

43. Probably true ... but anyone could have been used to expose McCain re Iraq ...

Did she expose Matthews on McCain -- I don't think so --

Matthews immediately went off on "nice guy-military service, etal" --

Making himself and McCain look good to people who are still into the military BS --

THAT includes Matthews, evidently-- or he knows it's a good act for show -- ??

[krkaufman]

36. I'm kinda grateful she *did* have Matthews on, to show how incompetent he is ...

... and demonstrate the contrast to what we can NOW get in Rachel that we haven't gotten for years. Matthews is sitting there praising Rachel for "great research" when all Matthews had to do was remember one of his earlier shows. (Though it goes to show that Tweety's brain isn't exactly engaged during his show, thus the inability to remember.)

[defendandprotect]

44. I don't think it worked -- Matthews trades on "Mr. Nice Guy" ...

and he covered well for McCain -- a guy who has served and knows kinda thing --

patriot -- no "chickenhawk" --

but no response to "on to Baghdad" nor "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" insanities --

[billionbucks]

46. I love Rachel!

Keep it up :-)

[Supersedeas]

47. pathetic little Tweety -- caught with all those NeoCons on his post-9/11 War Love Fest

[tooeyeten]

51. the girl confounded him

nice!