CNN anchor takes on Joe the Plumber

[IndependentDem]

Run time: 06:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MjvOeT8Hu8   Posted on YouTube: November 04, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: November 04, 2008 By DU Member: IndependentDem Views on DU: 3909

 

[tabatha]

1. Joe the Plumber is a nasty piece of shite who knows nothing.

[JustJon]

59. He was a weapon.

It's funny, everyone seems to think the Republicans pointed to him as a symbol of "real" America.

And maybe they did, to some extent, once they saw the traction the Joe The Plumber message was getting with their own crowd. They kind of talked themselves into thinking it was some kind of movement.

But it's clear to me that Joe was just a weapon. Remember: before Joe got thrust into the spotlight, McCain's campaign was wilting a little bit because of the backfire on his negative attacks. This was right around the time when his Town Halls started getting out of hand (as McCain suddenly learned why Bush was so fond of scripted phony Town Halls).

They pointed to Joe The Plumber because they needed to keep taking shots at Obama, but the public didn't like hearing it from McCain and Palin. So they emphasized Joe The Plumber, because that allowed them to attack Obama through Joe. Instead of saying harsh things themselves, they started attributing the attacks to this average voter. Instead of coming out and making the attacks themselves, they started saying, "Well, Joe The Plumber says..." And that allowed them to float test balloon attacks to see which ones the campaign could officially make and which they had to leave alone.

It was a blatant attempt to attack their opponent, but still claim the high ground by saying it wasn't them doing the attacking. And, they hoped, the fact that the attacks seemed to be coming from an average voter, it would give them an attack dog who would somehow be immune to anyone questioning his particulars.

[axollot]

61. The scary part is he would have been a better VP pick! LOL (happy dancing on Tuesday)

[doublethink]

2. Alright Joe ..... you're irrelevant after today. C-Ya !! K&R. n.t.

[Why Syzygy]

3. He's been irrelevant for awhile . but yeah

.. Rick did great. k/r

[propagandagirl]

4. Oh, Snap!!

This made my heart happy......

[SamuelB]

5. Joe the loser

[graegoyle]

6. Don't blame the media nor Obama.

Joe, you should be blaming McCain for pulling you into the mess you're in now. And, at first, you reveled in it. Now that your skeletons are out, you cry foul and blame everyone else for your short-comings. Well, at least he seems familiar with the Republican play-book.

And bad form for CNN for putting this twit back on the air.

[mrbarber]

7. I approve of a flat tax! Obama doesn't!

..and neither does McCain.

Well..uh...er...um....

Priceless.

[Blue For You]

8. I think Joe has sniffed way too much pipe glue.

[ejpoeta]

9. principles?? this from a man who didn't pay his taxes??? and didn't a radio

call in show raise money to pay the taxes for him??? wtf!! the guy is an idiot. i hope he has fun trying to get famous without mccain who could give a shit about him now!!

[Best_man23]

33. Just did what he suggested

Looked up "principle" in Webster's and here is what it says:

"1 a: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1): a rule or code of conduct (2): habitual devotion to right principles <a man of principle> c: the laws or facts of nature underlying the working of an artificial device"

I do not see anything there in the definition of "principle" related to taxation.

Bet that we're going to see JTP on the TV in about 2 years in a police standoff situation.

[krumpli]

10. What the fuck does this guy actually want?

He wants flat tax but support McCain who opposes flat tax?

[ejbr]

11. Maybe people making over $250K AREN'T paying there fair share!

Exactly! Who the fuck is Joe, McCain and those making over $250K to say that they already pay their fair share??! Their premise needs to be argued, not the conclusion!

[Fearless]

12. Tick... tock... Here that... That's his fifteen minutes of fame... and it's just finished.

[bridgit]

13. JTP the Dumbass!! What a goofy-duuph!

[kcdoug1]

14. Joe the idiot!

How is this man making ANY money, when he's either on the road with Geezer/dipshit or on CNN

?

[mcjackson]

15. he definitely knows....

...nothing. flat tax would not work. employers would pay you less, so it would be about the same as it is now.

[Make7]

27. Why would employers pay people less if there was a flat tax?

And how would it be about the same as it is now? For employers? Employess? Government revenue?
 

[Hope And Change]

16. He doesn`t even have a license and hasn`t paid his taxes.What a Jerk.

[soupkitchen]

17. Das Boob

[awoke_in_2003]

29. Please, let's not call this man a boob...

boobs are beautiful things that serve a purpose- they make me smile :)

[Kurovski]

52. How about "Joe the Dumber"?

[awoke_in_2003]

54. has a nice ring

to it :)

[Kurovski]

55. It's all over the internet. I wonder why?

Hmmmm...:-)

[awoke_in_2003]

56. Couldn't be because of you,

could it? :evilgrin:

[Lucky Luciano]

18. I thought the interviewer was unnecessarily hostile and biased

against Joe the Pube. Sort of like that Barbara West in Orlando was overly hostile to Biden in her interview of him.

[Grinchie]

40. I thought the Interviewer Found his Nads.

And was excercising the power of the press for a change.

Too bad CNN didn't do this about 7 years ago.

[MindMatter]

60. But he perpertuates the big lie, which is

that the rich pay higher taxes. That is complete bullshit. They do not pay higher taxes.

#1, even though the income tax is progressive, there are many techniques available to the wealthy to avoid subjecting their income to income tax.

#2, and more importantly, the income tax is the ONLY progressive tax we have, and it is only slightly progressive. All the other taxes are highly REGRESSIVE. Social security. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Go all the way down the line. All those taxes fall extremely disproportionately on the lower income citizens.

When you put all of this together, it simply is no true to say that the wealthy pay their "fair share".

I can't believe we have 3 weeks of Joe the Plumber debate without a single person pointing out the elephant in the room.

[Crowman1979]

19. Joe is a white uncle Tom!

Always following his Rich Republican masters.

[Cali_Democrat]

20. Rick Sanchez just pwned his arse.

It's about damn time somebody called out this fraud.

[MagicKenny]

21. "Yeah, brother." "That's Right, Brother." Who is he...Hulk Hogan?

I'm surprised he didn't say "Whatcha gonna do with McCainamania runs wild on YOOOOOOOOUU!"

Joe? Your 15 minutes called. They're long gone.

[unpossibles]

22. what a douchehole.

That guy - most likely a freeper - bit off more than he can chew and doesn't even realize it.

[Grinchie]

41. A lot of Freepers cannot withstand repeated assault on their talking points.

The medication they're on causes a neural overrun which forces them to rely on Dictionary lookups to prove their point.

I would of been impressed if he quoted the dictionary and the context, because this man certainly has no principles.

[123abawd]

23. Now that he'll be on The Bachelor, he probably WILL make $250k!

The irony is that now that he's a celebrity, he actually just might make that $250,000 threshhold. Especially if he goes Hollywood and gets that gig as next season's "The Bachelor." Some of you may have heard the story:
http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/11/02/joe-the-plummer-canoodled-cast-member-at-snl-after-party/

This apparently ran in the NY Post yesterday, too. If they confirmed it, it must be true!

[MarinCoUSA]

24. BOTH of these guys are idiots

Joe's "principals" is not a direct argument against progressive income tax and the reporter puffing about a flat tax immediately ends the interview IMO.

[immoderate]

31. Yep.

--IMM

[Poll_Blind]

25. I love it! This was very enjoyable to watch...

PB

[BEZERKO]

26. The flat tax is a stupid idea.

Why should I, with a yearly income of the mid 30s, pay the same tax rate as someone making even 150k a year. You make more, you pay a higher percentage. I drive one car, but a trucking company sends fleets of trucks on the public highways, but I should pay the same?

Progressive Frames for Taxes


by The Rockridge Institute
http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/rockridge/taxation

The Tax Relief frame illustrates how frames control public debate. It is time for progressives to fight back with frames that effectively and honestly represent the progressive view of taxation.

When a frame is applied to an issue, it leads people to think and reason about the issue in a specific way. Suddenly, certain conclusions seem to become inevitable and others become nearly impossible. This is what framing is about.

The phrase tax relief evokes a frame, and the choice of this phrase (instead of tax cuts or tax reduction, for example) is no accident — Conservatives know what they are doing with this use of language. When we hear the word relief, we immediately know that in the situation there is an affliction or burden, a victim of the affliction, and someone who helps us by relieving the affliction.

Without relief, there is continued suffering. Since no one wants suffering, we see anyone who interferes with the relief as a “bad guy” - as someone who must be defeated. This in turn sets up the reliever as a kind of hero. Every time the phrase tax relief is heard or read by millions of people, the more this view, which sets up taxation as an affliction and conservatives as heroes, gets reinforced.

Once citizens, influenced by media, accept tax relief as the right words to use when discussing taxes, it becomes almost impossible to see why taxes sometimes should go up instead of down, or to point out who is not paying their fair share.

It is critical for progressives to reframe the tax debate—to demonstrate the logic of how taxes support and extend the basic American values of protection, freedom, opportunity, fairness, and community.

New Frames for Taxes

As progressives, we do not believe that taxes are necessarily an affliction. Instead, we think of taxes as investments that give us dividends. And, every patriotic American pays their fair share, to support their country. Taxes are the way we support the common good.

Taxes Are Investments

Conservatives regularly claim that, “you know how to spend your money better than the government does.” This is by no means always true. In a great many cases, the government has invested our tax money wisely, and we have reaped enormous dividends. For instance, take our highway system paid for by taxpayer investments. Imagine trying to take your tax cut and use it to build a highway system? Or take the Internet - it was paid for with taxpayer investments, as was the development of computer chips. Imagine trying to use your tax cut to invent and build the internet, and design and make chips for all of our computer uses? Through our education system, as well as through the NSF (National Science Foundation), and NIH (National Institutes of Health), our wise taxpayer investments have trained generations of scientists and medical researchers. Imagine trying to take your tax cut to train doctors and scientists.

Dependence on taxpayer investments is even more extreme for corporations. Taxpayers pay for all of our government financial institutions — our national banks, the Federal Reserve, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Treasury and Commerce departments, as well as our courts, of which 90% is used for corporate law. When someone wants to start a business, they do not have to build highways, the internet, educate scientists, found banks, or start a court system from scratch. They are all there waiting for you, courtesy of taxpayers. These are taxpayer dividends.

Our taxes are investments that pay extraordinary dividends. No investment, no dividends. Some of the most important dividends are economic growth and jobs.

Fairness: Everyone Pays Their Fair Share

It costs money to run America — tax money. Somebody is paying, and if others do not pay their fair share, then you are paying for them. Large corporations and the wealthy used to pay their fair share. They do not anymore. That means you are paying their taxes. Is that fair?

Fair taxation means we all pay our way, and we all pay our fair share. The wealthiest Americans use our public infrastructure more than anyone else, and they use parts of it that other people do not. For example:

· An overwhelming percentage of state and federal court time is devoted to corporate law. Businesses and corporations rely on a smoothly functioning court system to negotiate disputes and ensure contracts are upheld.
· The Securities and Exchange Commission and all the apparatus of the Commerce Department are mainly used by the wealthy.
· Companies depend on sound roads, railways and ports to transport their products.
· Companies benefit from an educated workforce, and the scientific and technological research that we have all paid for.

We all pay in to maintain these resources, but corporations and wealthy people use more of our public resources than an ordinary family does — so it only makes sense that they pay accordingly. That is what progressive taxation is all about. We all pay our fair share to support America — corporations should, too.

Patriotism: Patriotic Americans Pay Their Taxes

Taxes are an issue of patriotism. Are you paying your dues, or are you trying to get something for free at the expense of your country?

Patriotic Americans pay their taxes. Taxes maintain the investments we made to build roads, schools and hospitals — we pay our dues to make sure they remain in good repair and available for our use. Taxes support the infrastructure and services that protect us—the military, our police officers, and our firefighters. As a community, we contribute our taxes so that all of us are safe. We pay our taxes because we love our country and want to support it and our fellow Americans — it is an issue of patriotism.

Taxes Are Our Dues

Taxes are our dues — we pay our dues to be Americans and enjoy the benefits of American society. Taxes are what we pay to live in a civilized society that is democratic, offers opportunity, and has a huge infrastructure available to all citizens. This incredible infrastructure has been paid for by previous taxpayers. Roads and highways, the Internet, the broadcast airwaves, our public education system, our power grid — every day we all use this vast infrastructure. Our dues maintain it.

It is about being a member, a part of the community. People pay a membership fee to join a gym, the local YMCA, or a club for which they get to use the basketball courts, the swimming pool, and the golf course. They did not pay for these facilities with their own memberships. They were built and paid for by other members, and all the current members maintain them with their dues. It is the same thing with our country — being a member in good standing of a remarkable nation. Americans pay their dues.

These ideas need to be turned into frames that are commonplace in the minds of most Americans - so commonplace that they define our common sense about what taxation is. Once that happens, we will be able to use two-word phrases like tax investments and tax dividends and everyone will know what we are talking about.

[immoderate]

34. Excellent!

I have used the tax as investment argument. OTOH, I point out that tax for military, beyond necessary defense, is like shoveling it into a fire.

--IMM

[Grinchie]

46. The Tax System was long ago subverted by the Corporations

I agree about chipping in for healthcare, roads and services, but there has been a huge disconnect in the past decade, which has removed our voice from telling government what we want Tax money to be used for.

I for one, will not pay for War. It is that simple. I servered in the military, and while Reagan flooded money into high tech equipment for the military, us grunts woke up to shower rooms flooded from overflowed toilets, subject to food that caused the whole base to become ill with Gastro-enteritis, and generally be discarded after our tour of duty was up.

This lack of respect from the military left a lasting mark on me, and I will never again fall prey to the line "Freedom Isn't Free". Actually, it is free, but they use Fear to manipulate people into believing the scam.

I believe in a Flat, Consumption Tax. If you buy a lot, you pay more tax, if you buy less, you pay less. For example, McDonalds would obviously pay more due to sheer volume of the number of Egg McNugget containers.

Instead, the Corporations pay their expense first, then pay taxes on whats left over after paying shareholders (Who are saddled with their own responsibility for taxes) on the revenue thats left over.

We pay taxes on our Gross Income, then we get taxed at the state level, as well as Real Property and other income taxes, trash, water and electric -- all taxed again... Don't forget inflation gnawing away at your spending power either.

Then we get the fee's which is hidden corporate profit, virtually unregulated.

The tax system is a horrible mess, but it is a godsend to the tax prepares, accountants and corporations. If you know what you are doing, you can easily get to a 5% tax rate every year. It takes good records, budgeting and planning to make it work, but most people are too overwhelmed, tired or uninformed to be able to make the long term plans that will same them serious tax dollars. Then again, the tax laws can change at the whim of the goverment, so there is always a risk that a tax shelter will disapear over night .. Like the P.O. Box in the Caiman Islands trick that has a lock of Corporations sweating bullets right now.

[stark6935]

28. Joe the tax defaultee thinks its ok for the rich to rob our country blind then?

[pedo]

30. he said that people that earn more work harder than people that earn less

at 5:10

"cry me a river"

[unpossibles]

42. a common error among the right wing misinformed masses

Most people I know - myself included - work harder when they make less. We have to. I'm doing all right now - definitely not rich, but having been poor, I can appreciate where I am and know I did not get here without the help of a society - but when I was poor, I worked two or three jobs to make ends meet and still was in debt.

Fuck that fucking fuck.

[Kalifornia.Kid]

32. It's not called PIPE DOPE for nothing.

Rick Sanchez roto-rooter his dumb ass.

[OnwardandForward]

35. Fucktard...Makes Me Ashamed to be from Ohio...

Every time I see him in a Buckeye sweatshirt, I throw up a little in my mouth. AT LEAST his argument was coherent, rational and sane...he must have had his civics class at the same place he went to trade school. </sarcasm> JEEEEEEEEEzus....

[stlsaxman]

36. Don't give me that "brother brother brother", brother!

I- I found out

FYI- i'm channeling John Lennon here...

[Plucketeer]

37. Joe the Dolt

He MOST CERTAINLY typifies your standard issue McCain supporter! :dunce:

[lenegal]

38. what a redneck piece of shit

Nuff said.

[jwlashta]

39. I guess he thought

it would be like Faux News--questions are lobbed at him and he would be allowed to spout off without any challenge. Not every news organization is a forum for some crack-pot's talking points. It is too bad that MSNBC didn't get a crack at him.

The man's an idiot. He was being propped up like some mascot and he got a swelled head; he needed to be brought back to reality. There's nothing like being brought back to reality than being shown that your whole persona is a lie and that you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. I also quite enjoyed his ad hominen attacks on the anchor--when reason fails you, resort to personal attacks.

[Postman]

43. Joe's "principles" are horseshit.

This asshole has no concept of how, why or what governments are formed for. This dumbass wouldn't know what a dictionary were if it hit him upside his empty head.

What are the chances this fuckwad refuses his Social Security check when he's 62?

[newmac]

44. They are vetting you Joe; because you've been given a voice

And you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Pure ignorance.

[TinCup]

45. Stop the insanity!

Please when he calls just hang up and say we don't care about
what you have to say. 
The message missed is that McCain wanted to scare 95 percent
of the population into voting
for him. What about Sue the Nurse, Tom the WalMart Greeter
& the rest of this nation. 

[Grinchie]

47. Palin wanted to see his reaction to "Gotcha Journalism"

You Betcha!@

[Flagrante]

48. I want my 6 minutes 14 seconds back

Joe the Plumber (NOT) is totally misguided. Progressive income tax is proper and well established. These righties talk like money will be taken from the rich and given to the poor. The reality of the plan is that less money will be taken from the working class and 3% more taken from the uber wealthy. Less taken does not equal a handout, it equals less taken.

[RetroLounge]

49. Joe the Skinhead Douchenozzle

:eyes:

RL

[bamacrat]

50. I usually dont like Rick Sanchez but its great to see an educated person take this goon down.

Hes an idiot how many time do people have to point out to him on national TV that he is poor and in no way will benefit from McCains proposals? I mean it makes no sense, Im glad Rick didnt let his private citizen shit fly. so great.

[elias7]

51. Sounds like he's advocating a flat tax. There's a principle there.

My problem with him is he's a liar, having misrepresented himself on behalf of the McCain campaign, and now whoring himself. Where's the principle there?

[FM Arouet666]

53. Joe the Dumber n/t

[mackerel]

57. Flat tax would be Jerry Brown in '92.

Either way it looks like Ohio went to Obama so most of Ohio must have figured out that Joe was really Sam.

[NikolaC]

58. Joe?

I thought that that moron's name was Sam and that he was not a licensed plumber. Pwnd by CNN, lol.

[Hobbershall]

62. Joe the plumber:

Around the shop, we call him the plumber with no sense of smell.

[Hobbershall]

63. Never guess who spanked Joe the Plumber next

And at McCain's election night party, no less.
I found this on You Tube. It's friggin hysterical

"Breaking the news to McCain's People"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE96G7tKXgw

[pacalo]

64. Thank goodness Obama's victory prevented this ignorant man from voting against his own interests.

[greblc]

65. Joe who?

Seen the face never listened to word from his mouth.

[Billy Burnett]

66. Two flat tax/flat earth idiots debating each other.

:rofl: