COUNTDOWN: Special Comment: Why Obama Must Prosecute Bush's Torture

[kpete]

Run time: 10:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWf9nfJp6B0   Posted on YouTube: January 20, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 20, 2009 By DU Member: kpete Views on DU: 8376

 
They're guilty of this, Mr. President-Elect. They're guilty as sin.
transcript:
http://crooksandliars.com/node/25354

[Lucian]

1. That was KO's best Special Comment.

And I hope Obama was listening.

K&R

[hulka38]

3. I agree with you.

[bjobotts]

24. You have a short memory...but it was good though he didn't mention rendering

[bjobotts]

25. I wish I were wrong but they will condemn and point fingers but nothing will be done

[bjobotts]

26. They wil call it shameful and say how we must make sure it never happens again

[bjobotts]

27. But nothing will be done about it.Same with outing a spy and lying us to war.

[bjobotts]

28. Pelosi's famous "It will distract from policy making" will be the end of it.

[bjobotts]

29. No "witch hunt", we already know they're guilty. Nothing will be done but talk.

[montanto]

54. With great sadness I believe you are right.

I guess I dropped my pom-poms two years ago.

[Piewhacket]

2. Agree. Investigate and Prosecute

[Vincardog]

62. Agree. Investigate and Prosecute

[donheld]

4. This should happen

[Phred42]

5. KPO NAILS IT yet AGAIN!

I hope he continues to hold BO's feet to the fire.

[pleah]

6. K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R

:evilgrin:

[Decider]

7. So, Prosecuting Bush will be clean Job #1689 -

Olbermann has a lot of balls. I respect him so much. He thinks and acts like a citizen of the World.
However, I don't want this Great Administration of Change to have to deal with the Hate of the Right, which can be mighty.

I'd like a World Court to do the prosecuting in this case.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

9. They're going to hate him no matter what.

Whether the Obama administration decides to prosecute or not, they are going to go after him with even more enthusiasm than they did Bill Clinton.

We should prosecute these criminals and parade them around the country so everyone can see them in shackles.

[L. Coyote]

10. If we cannot do this ourselves, what kind of nation are we?

The same kind that exterminated the residents of an entire continent to steal it!

That's what kind of nation we are, the kind we have always been from day one when we invaded the Native Nations of Ohio.

Obama cannot change that. He can change the future, but I doubt he will. If he had the guts to do so, we would have heard so by now!

I will believe in Justice in America again when I see it!

[Donnachaidh]

52. so how can you call this an *administration of CHANGE*

If he DOESN'T correct the serious problems that have shredded the CONSTITUTION?

NOT doing anything is the antithesis of CHANGE.

Or is that "title" just another trademarked public relations tool? :sarcasm:

[aquart]

8. k&r

[chill_wind]

11. Yes! Yes! --- "Mr. President-Elect, you have a CONFESSION."

Kick and Rec.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. K/R

Investigate. Indict. Incarcerate.

[emlev]

13. Brilliant. Except for one moment.

He said Bush was elected. I can't imagine where he got that idea.

[defendandprotect]

14. Agree . . . Agree . .

[debbierlus]

15. He wasn't talking to us - that was STRAIGHT to Obama! Wonderful!

He quoted Lincoln...

Man, if that heartfelt plea and excellent summation of history doens't move him to prosecute...We will just have to try harder.

[Ztarbod]

16. Bush ain't alone

To investigate Bush, all of those complicit in his actions must also be investigated. That includes the democratic leadership of congress. I don’t there will be an investigation.

[Left Coast2020]

19. WE'VE GOT TO GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME.

The pressure is too great to screw this up. Obama knows the Constitution. The new A.G.--Eric Holder knows the law. I want to believe thay are fully aware of what is at stake. I gota believe they hear us. Pelosi and Reid apparently do not. But I feel Obama does.

And may I add that I believe that Libby is going to get thrown under the bus. News story just out says "no pardon for Libby".

:nuke:

[sammythecat]

48. My thoughts as well.

Leaving aside the crimes and accompanying corruption of the previous administration, the new President has to deal with a country in a crisis verging on disaster. Things are very bad and very likely to get very much worse. That alone is going to take exceptional effort from an exceptional leader.

Toss in the investigation and prosecution for war crimes of an administration that has held power for 8 years and the logistics become nightmarish. Sort of like coming home to a fire in the basement and your spouse in the bedroom with half the fire department.

Obama is certainly faced with some huge problems. If anyone has the ability to solve them, he does. I just hope he has the will and keeps it.

[Bette Noir]

17. That reminds me...

I have to go log on to change.gov and tell Obama to do everything Keith tells him to.

I love me some Obama, but Keithie has never disappointed me.

[Norrin Radd]

18. Torture isn't the only crime the bush admin committed.

[bjobotts]

30. Exactly. But it will be used to downplay all the rest of that huge pile of corruption

[bjobotts]

31. Yes we can...no we can't...only you can 'cause if we could it would already be done.

[ihavenobias]

20. K & R

[pilsner]

21. Prosecute Bush for authorizing torture at Abu Ghraib

and not for KSM. It'll sell much better with the public.

FBI E-Mail Says Bush Authorized Abuse of Iraqi Detainees
Written by Jason Leopold
Friday, 02 January 2009 15:04

An e-mail written by a senior FBI agent in Iraq in 2004 specifically stated that President George W. Bush had signed an Executive Order approving the use of military dogs, sleep deprivation and other tactics to intimidate Iraqi detainees.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4760874

[omega minimo]

22. Isn't the overriding "policy decision" THE LAW?

:wtf:

[bjobotts]

32. Read Greenwald's site. UN treaty says that cannot be used as an excuse.

[omega minimo]

34. what can't? the policy BS? link please

[Connonym]

23. The excuse that we must only look ahead is incredibly flawed

it's also extremely unfair to everyone else who committed crimes in the past 8 years and has been punished. The rule of law loses it's meaning when we selectively apply it. I don't think any other individuals in the US have committed crimes affecting as many victims as those affected by the crimes of W and Co. We CANNOT let this go unpunished without destroying the integrity of our legal system.

[Optical.Catalyst]

39. We cannot let this go unpunished without further destroying the integrity of the US world wide

The whole world hates us because of the Bush Administration. Prosecuting Bush for his crimes would be the first step in restoring our tarnished image.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. "looking forward" means looking the other way

while horrible crimes are committed in our names.

[Voice for Peace]

33. I recently re-watched "All the President's Men" and it hit me like a ton of bricks,

first of all, how much evil there is going on behind the scenes and secondly, how much worse it's gotten since then.

Hoping Obama will have the courage and the wisdom to take this country forward properly. There must be accountability. I envision him making a somber announcement to the country, something like "It is with a heavy heart today I tell you we will be bringing indictments against... in accordance with the laws and conscience of America"

[dflprincess]

60. Keith made the point that has been made on DU

that these thugs (or the fathers and grandfathers) have been allowed to get away with their crimes in the past. And, each time they've gotton away with them, they come back worse.

It is time to stop them and hold them accountable. Only then will the country be able to move forward but it is the only way we will be able to restore the Constitution and strive to live up to its ideals.

[NM Independent]

35. I miss Keith

We haven't had our cable hooked up in the new place yet, so I've been w/o TV for over a month.

[LaPera]

58. You don't need cable - Watch Keith Olbermann & Rachel Maddow every night here for free!

Or as much as your ISP cost..... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

It's updated pretty much right after the live show- PLUS only one opening commercial and no more!!

[chill_wind]

36. "In point of fact,

every effort to merely 'draw a line in the sand' and declare the past, dead, has served only to keep the past alive-- and often to strengthen it."

Cannot be re-stated enough.

[jeff30997]

37. K&R

Keith is so right.And he is so not a butt-kisser like most of the "journalists" we've seen the last

8 years.Kissing Chimpco's butt and now most of them (Except the weirdos like O'Realy and Blimpbutt)

will change their tune and sing the praises of this new administration whatever they do,right or

wrong.But I won't hold my breath about the Bushies being prosecuted because for a few rare

exceptions the Politicians in Congress are a bunch of spineless cowards and/or corrupted to the

bone.

[sasquatch]

38. I'll see it later

[Wizard777]

40. "Policy Differences" Violating the law should never be a Presidential Policy.

With Bush it was. We do not allow the President to hide his crimes behind a Top Secret stamp. But Obama will allow him to hide his crimes behind a claim of policy. I don't think so.

[calimary]

41. Strike up the drums!

The drumbeat for this must begin NOW, and grow louder and louder and louder until our reps are driven to do our bidding.

Guilty as sin.

[Wizard777]

42. "he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed"

[AsahinaKimi]

43. Bush must pay

For this and other crimes against the Constitution.

[Hubert Flottz]

44. K&R

I saw it and I couldn't agree with KO more.

America is either a "nation of laws," or it's a nation of outlaws.

[RoccoR5955]

45. Trial for the treasoners!

This MUST be investigated, and those guilty MUST be prosecuted, lest we are not a country of law.

[TankLV]

47. obama will do NOTHING. He can't even handle "the Gay"...

He's continually waffeled and disappointed regarding fucking EQUAL RIGHTS for GBLT for chrissake!

obama's a quizzling and calculating politician at best. Therefore, obama will do NOTHING...

he went from "full marriage rights" for GBLT a LONG time ago to "I don't believe in Gay Marriage" today and mcglurkin speaking MULTIPLE TIMES and ELEVATING that fucking warren to a POSITION OF HONOR!!!

No - I don't think for a nanosecond that obama will do ANYTHING about this...

[tomp]

55. i agree. the obama administration is doomed before it even has begun.

hope is already dead. fudging on law is the ultimate escape for corruption. politicians are the ultimate criminals. this is not debatable. time-tested, solid as the law of gravity.

[freeradicalm]

49. K&R You hit the nail on the head well, Keith

As you always do, thank you for being the voice of "Real America"

[BlueJac]

50. I feel our hopes will vanish on this issue.........

Obama has not the stomach for such justice.

[Kajsa]

51. This was one of Keith's best

Special Comments.

His focus on driving this issue home was
to show how this is NOT "looking backwards",
but rectifying the crimes of our past,
so they do NOT return, worse than ever.

Thank you Keith!

:)

[mod mom]

53. Excellent. I wished he would have brought up we didn't prosecute Iran-Contra/BCCI or

or the Coup against FDR. Maybe had we prosecuted those we would have never seen another bush in office.

[w4rma]

56. Yes. The same people keep breaking the law and coming back for more. No more! (nt)

[DissedByBush]

57. Obama just said it is not going to happen

"No recriminations."

[snappyturtle]

59. K&R nt

[Independent_Liberal]

61. We can make this happen folks. Don't let those who say it won't get you down.

Peace to you, Keith!

:patriot:

[Riverman]

63. What I Voted For - Accountability, Holding Public Officials

Responsible for their actions while working under the public trust with our hard earned tax dollars. No less! We are a nation of laws as republicans and conservatives have so often liked to preach, especially about low-income, minority law breakers, now over-filling US prisons for mainly drug crimes. The real consequential crimminals in the government, corporate boardrooms and offices and Wall Street cannot be allowed to walk-free without being brought to justice. Period!

[jdove0078]

64. I am completely amazed.

First, I could have sworn about a condition in America known as "innocent until proven guilty." Please don't tell me that we have slid so far from a Republic into communism that we no longer care about this long held tenet of American society. while I can appreciate everyone's zeal we must hold true to what we are otherwise we risk becoming that which we despise.

I'm also amazed that so many here are so very, very eager to condemn Bush without a trial and yet are willing, in the same breath, to exonerate Clinton who openly lied under oath, obstructed justice and coerced others to lie as well.

The rule of law is the rule of law and it must be applied equally to all otherwise we are no better than they are.

Just my $0.02 but I expect to be referred to as a troll almost immediately and then banned.

[chill_wind]

65. "..to condemn Bush without a trial..."

I would welcome a trial.

[OwnedByFerrets]

66. What is it about "they have already admitted to crimes" dont you

understand. Both monkeyboy and cheney have said they ordered torture.

[Kurovski]

69. "Amazed", huh?

No one is saying don't give them a trial, fer cry-eye.

Crimes committed out in the open, with evidence falling out the criminals' arses are especially ripe for trial.

Trial, trial, trial, trial.

And there is indeed such a thing as a Communist People's Republic. Dig. It's your life from here on out. ;-)

[rocktivity]

73. I don't want to condemn him without a trial, but I don't want to acquit him without one either

which, as Keith said, is exactly what Obama's doing nothing would accomplish:

...You're also right that you should not "want your first term consumed by what was perceived...as a partisan witch-hunt." But your only other option might be to let this sit and fester, indefinitely.

...(S)ome day there will...another...president...will look back to what you did about Mr. Bush -- or what you did not do -- and he will see precedent. Or, as Cheney saw, he will see how not to get caught next time...

:headbang:
rocknation

[tclambert]

67. The opportunity is there. Bush did not pardon himself nor Cheney.

Arrest the SOBs. Mr. President, don't let it consume your Presidency. Delegate it. That's what the Attorney General is for. And he can delegate it to a prosecutor. Let them treat it as the crime it is. You don't have to put the cuffs on them personally. You don't have to make the case. Let others do it. Just tell them it's okay to do their jobs.

And tell The Hague War Crimes Tribunal they can Bush and Cheney and they can do their jobs, too.

[Kurovski]

68. Damn straight.

"Must."
K&R.

[Titonwan]

70. I do believe Keith is getting better by the day!

I really do like that Keith is being very patriotic about this. We need brave souls desperately in the days to come. Please tell people about the importance of holding these criminals accountable! One day we shall die, but let's not let Democracy die on our watch.

[rocktivity]

71. He had me at "hello"

Well, actually, at "We have tortured people--you and I."

:headbang:
rocknation

[Vattel]

72. Bush tortured, I didn't.

Even assuming that he represents me, he acted outside the scope of his authority when he chose to torture.

[Piewhacket]

75. Right. I didn't vote for him, I opposed the war, I denounced

the mistreatment of prisoners, I railed, I wrote, I fumed,
I did everything I could but light myself afire, which wouldn't have
changed anything anyway.

I didn't torture, Bush and his criminal enterprise did.

He didn't torture for information.
he didn't give a flying f* about information. That much is obvious.
He tortured for the same reason Saddam Husein tortured, because GWB
and Gang are vicious sadists and megalomaniacs who sought naught but
wealth and power by imposing a regime of terror.

Bush was not acting on my behalf, whatever he claimed, for I was as
chained and powerless as any prisoner . And when finally,
at long last, I could escape my prison and actually do something
about this I acted resolutely and forcefully in opposition...

I voted for Obama.

I did not torture. Bush and Gang tortured. I am not them.
I am innocent.

[Dangerman]

74. President Obama, please... I beg of you...

Prosecute and sentence George Bush and his cohorts for torture. They may get away with murder in the Iraqi invasion, But they won't get away with this. Justice must prevail. Failure to do so, Mr. President, and I would never trust you again.

[Martin Eden]

76. KSM would not be my first choice

Keith is of course correct. However, in my opinion the torture issue is far from the most imperative reason for criminal investigation. First and foremost are the lies that took our country into an illegal war, followed by abuses of power that trashed the checks & balances of our Constitution and violated the rights of US citizens.

I think criminal prosecution based on the torture of KSM (the centerpiece of Keith’s argument) will find little political support, because KSM is acknowledged to be the mastermind behind the 9-11 attacks. I think the majority of Americans (myself included) have few qualms about employing any means necessary to extract information from this particular individual, though I will add that torture has shown to be an ineffective method that often yields bogus intel.

I understand that what is at stake here is a matter of principle and the rule of law, and I think the Bush administration should be prosecuted for the systematic widespread abuse they sanctioned against prisoners in our custody, many of whom just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I’m sure there are a number of serious war crimes that can be traced directly back to the highest levels of the Bush administration.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I doubt much will be initiated by the Obama administration, but I don’t think they can simply ignore indictments or lawsuits from other sources that have strong evidence of specific crimes.

Though I have reservations about making the waterboarding of KSM the centerpiece of legal action, I wholeheartedly agree with Keith that in order to move forward into a better future we cannot turn a blind eye to the crimes of the past. When we allow our public officials to violate the law with impunity, we are inviting more of the same and will have ourselves to blame when it happens again, as inevitably it will.

[OwnedByFerrets]

81. Before I jump to any conclusions, are you saying that

you are OK with torture as long as it fits in YOUR acceptable mindset?

"I think the majority of Americans (myself included) have few qualms about employing any means necessary to extract information from this particular individual"

IF, in fact, that is what you are implying, its deplorable. And, not only do I have qualms about it, its still illegal now matter how much one might think it necessary.

[Martin Eden]

83. On a personal level, I have no qualms about KSM

He masterminded the murder of 3000 civilians, and if I thought I could save lives by inflicting pain and terror on him, I would do it. However, I am NOT advocating torture as government policy. My point was there would be little political support for a crimiminal prosecution based on the waterboarding of KSM, because I'd bet that most Americans think he deserves much worse.

Telling the STATE it can openly violate the law is another matter, and a very dangerous slippery slope. In principle I support criminal prosecution in this case, but I would much rather see Bush indicted for the other crimes I mentioned.

If your YOUR persoanl "mindset" compels you to judge me as "deploarbale" you are free to indulge your rightrous indignation.

[Swagman]

77. is there a deliberate strategy ?. Perhaps the new president ( and law exoert )

will wait and allow a few voices to build to a clamour. Remember-once you are in power it's a whole different ball game as we have sadly discovered over the past 8 years. But now it's a whole diferent game..is Obama waiting until the pressure builds so that he must do somthing. That's how I would play this difficult game.

[Vattel]

78. That's a good question

and it also suggests that we (the public) need to help to build that pressure.

[BanTheGOP]

79. Make sure the entire republican party...

...is investigated and, pragmatically, destroyed. Even after we prosecute Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Rove, we need to ensure that the culture of oppression is neutered in its tracks so FUTURE atrocities will not be committed. As Keith eloquently pointed out, we need to prosecute the entire administration. It could NOT have succeeded without having a financial organization that paid its way.

AGAIN, people...the republican party is NOT a political organization! We must ensure its destruction for our country, and our planet, to progress.

[Courtesy Flush]

80. No no no

I keep saying this. If Obama prosecutes, he:

1. WILL NOT get a conviction (who can deny this?) and
2. Will be accused of conducting a partisan witch hunt, which will further divide Washington and America.

Solution? An international War Crimes Tribunal and overseas trial, similar to Nuremberg. This not only keeps Obama from being the target of revenge, it lends credibility to the conviction, as it will be an international, and not a partisan effort.

Let Obama move forward while the Bush trial proceeds in a neutral country.

[BobTheSubgenius]

82. How can one not support a piece from KO?

[toymachines]

84. It is necessary

"we africans will fight we find it necessary and we know we shall win"
- Bob Marley "War"

[Just-plain-Kathy]

85. "Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours" :(

:kick:

[DutchLiberal]

86. That was a foolish comment, Olbermann.

"After the first World War, we didn't fully prosecute Germany"? Yes, we did. We devastated the country and that's exactly the environment in which Hitler could rise to power.

Keith, you used to be so good with historical references...

[DutchLiberal]

87. The CIA has always used torture. It's not a new phenomenon.

*Not* implying Bush shouldn't be prosecuted. In fact: send him to The Hague, I'll welcome him! But we must not pretend torture in the name of the USA has never happened before Bush.

[Stuart G]

88. Well said Keith, I agree completely

Tonight, a week after this comment, I finally viewed it. It is outstanding like the others. And Keith is correct. If we do not prosecute them, another, and worse version will emerge. That is the most frightening thing of all.