RON PAUL WHAT IF PEOPLE LEARNED THE TRUTH

[Pharaoh]

Run time: 03:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fTVn2tMI3E   Posted on YouTube: February 13, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 15, 2009 By DU Member: Pharaoh Views on DU: 9086

 
Ron Paul is my favorite Republican:patriot:


He is actually sane :shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

1. DUers who love racist republicans are my fav.

[Ian David]

4. Ron Paul is not necessarily a racist.

He just let someone spend ten years writing racist things and signing his name to them.

Now, does that mean Ron Paul is a racist?

He could just really not care at all about what people attribute to him.

For example:

"My name is Ron Paul, and I like to fuck live kittens until they expire screaming upon the shaft of my penis. Sincerely, Ron Paul."

Now, please forward this message to Ron Paul, once a month for ten years, and if he doesn't complain about it, then he's not a racist.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Wow. I've heard some novel defenses of racism in my time...

But that one beets awl.

[Ian David]

74. Obviously, I was employing irony. n/t

[pretzel4gore]

8. but you're ...redirecting the basic issue away...from...nvm!

in my unabashed opinion, all white folk are racist, liberals self-consciously so. The ideas Paul mentions are legit...which is another issue

[BlooInBloo]

9. That's just dumb...

But have a heart anyway.

[pretzel4gore]

11. i love you two :))))

n/t

[roberto]

85. what you think is obviously erroneous

[IsItJustMe]

47. You know, sometimes people need to just STFU and listen to the message, the message can be just a

true, although the messanger may be imperfect. I don't know a damn thing about Ron Paul, but I do know what he said here rings true. And I like truth when I hear it.

[slipslidingaway]

66. Agree!!! n/t

[pjt7]

78. 100% Right!

Listen to the message.

[slipslidingaway]

124. Attacking the messenger and allowing the divide and conquer

strategy to work has been good for those at the top.

:(

[rateyes]

102. Bingo! Damned straight!

[slipslidingaway]

67. What Really Divides Us?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul68.html

"...Yet it is the federal government more than anything else that divides us along race, class, religion, and gender lines. The federal government, through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails in our society. This government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill between men by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. Americans know that factors other than merit in the free market often play a part in the success of some, and this leads to resentment and hostility between us.

Still, the left argues that stringent federal laws are needed to combat racism, always implying of course that southern states are full of bigoted rednecks who would oppress minorities if not for the watchful eye of Washington. They ignore, however, the incredible divisiveness created by their collectivist big-government policies.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups.

Conservatives and libertarians should fight back and challenge the myth that collectivist liberals care more about racism. Modern liberalism, however well intentioned, is a byproduct of the same collectivist thinking that characterizes racism. The continued insistence on group thinking only inflames racial tensions....


...Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_United_States

Chapter 2, "Drawing the Color Line" addresses early slavery of African Americans and servitude of poor British people in the Thirteen Colonies. Zinn writes of the methods by which racism was artificially created in order to enforce the economic system. He argues that racism is not natural because there are recorded instances of camaraderie and cooperation between black slaves and white servants in escaping from and in opposing their subjugation.

[LSK]

107. did you watch the video???????????

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Is that loon still out there?

Ron Paul may seem sane, but he promotes some really wacko ideas when you dig deep.

[pretzel4gore]

10. but the questions he asks ie 'what if we found out it was WE who

are the biggest terrs on earth?' etc; are they not valid? please re-visit the video

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Even a broken clock is right twice a day,

but I refuse to waste a single minute of my life on Ron Paul.

[Pharaoh]

13. Well you just did!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[kimmerspixelated]

26. What a great comeback!

[reggie the dog]

109. of course they are valid

but he is a Republican so some people here cannot get past that. His stance on the Iraq war, the Afganistan war and the two Patriot Acts was excellent. He voted for truth and civil liberties each time.

[Titonwan]

33. That "Loon" has more principle and patriotism

than 90% of the Democratic Congress. And don't profess to be more radically left than me. You would be dreaming. You obviously are an excellent candidate for brainwashing if you don't recognize a true Statesman. I know. They're very rare. Ron Paul is a Republican and the rest are rethugs. I pride myself as being a Liberal which means I don't run with any pack and think for myself, You ought to try it sometime. It's LIBERATING. Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold and Dr. Paul are about the only ones in Congress worth a damn, yet your so blindly loyal to the "pack" mentality you'll never see it. Ron Paul was FAAAAAR out in front of everyone else talking truth to power when he said "they don't come here (9/11) because they 'hate our freedom', they come here because WE'RE OVER THERE". He schooled YOU about the CIA term "blowback". Not ONCE did he vote for war funds. I'd pick my battles better in the future, if I was you.

[SoxFan]

42. Fail.

Ron Paul is an ultra-right racist who opposes the minimum wage, universal health care, environmental protection, and damn near anything else that would benefit the people of this country.

Oh, but he makes a lot of cool-sounding conspiratorial noises about 9/11, bashes Israel, and opposed the war (albeit for the wrong reasons). I guess that makes his 30 year record of doing the wrong thing ok?

It's amazing. Some of you guys give Ron Paul, who was endorsed by David Duke and Pat Buchanan, a free pass, but savage people like Joe Lieberman, who has a 90%+ pro-labor rating and one of the strongest environmental track records in the senate.

[JDPriestly]

51. I disagree with Ron Paul on many issues, but in this speech,

he mostly discussed issues on which I agree with him. I don't support Ron Paul, but I do support most of the ideas he presented in this speech.

[tomp]

77. no, you=fail.

conspiratorial noises about 9/11. friend, if you're NOT making conspiratorial noises about 9/11 you don't know shit.

bashes israel. the second most bashable nation on the planet.

opposed the war for the wrong reasons. flip that around--there is a good reason to support war?

lieberman supporter. no comment necessary.

QED

[reggie the dog]

112. he does not oppose those programs

he thinks they should be the choice of each state. What conspiratorial noises did he make about 911? He said they attacked us because we meddled in the middle east. No canspiracy involved. He never said W. did it. He said it was payback for our meddling. How could he oppose the war in Iraq for the wrong reasons? Was there a wrong reason to not want to go to war based on lies, which he pointed out. As for bashing Israel, Israel opens itself up to that seeing as they run the modern day equivalent of the Warsaw ghetto. For 30 years he has opposed helmet laws, opposed big brother, opposed corporate welfare, and opposed the military industrial complex. Far better than most other congresscritters. He is one of the few Republicans we could actually reach out to.

[Pharaoh]

128. Thank you Reggie the Dog!

O8) :hippie: :party: :toast: :bounce: :dem: :dem: :dem:

[bvar22]

54. What if everything Ron Paul said is true....

...and you couldn't hear because of the hands over your ears?

[Ian David]

3. Ron Paul is batshit-crazy. His one saving grace is he's not a chickenhawk. n/t

[Idealism]

5. Ron Paul is a complete tool

The only redeeming quality SOME see in him is that he is virulently against war. This is NOT to be confused with him as a lover of peace, but rather his Isolationist tendencies. It is NOT a good thing.

[Tutonic]

89. Agree.

[reggie the dog]

114. I am anti war because I am isolationist

why should we waste our money meddling in other countries affairs. If Paul had been in power instead of Johnson there would have been no Vietnam. Isolationism is not a bad word. What do you want, Empire???

Plus he voted against both patriot acts, that is virulently pro liberty and rights for me, you, and all other residents of the USA.

[Pharaoh]

7. I had no idea....

I just thought he had something intelligent to say in the video:shrug:

[The Wielding Truth]

14. Face value on this video, I agree with you, his words are refreshing,

esp. for someone who has another side which shows that he is not in favor of a federal government being there in any way to help those in our country who need a social safety net.

[laconicsax]

15. Why would you suspect that Ron Paul has anything intelligent to say?

[Lorien]

31. Did you watch the video?

what part of it was unintelligent?

[laconicsax]

49. I didn't--I was wondering why anyone would want to watch it in the first place.

Paul's a racist, misogynist, ass. His views are diametrically opposed to anything that could be considered progressive.

[JDPriestly]

52. Watch this particular video. It is quite compelling. It is about foreign

policy and war and how war serves special interests and not our nation as a whole.

[Lorien]

69. I'd reserve that second sentence. Without seeing it your statement

looks, well, ignorant. He's saying the very same thing Kucinich has been saying for years. He may be saying it for different reasons, but it's THE SAME MESSAGE. Only a knee jerk reactionary knocks something before they've heard it. Think of all of those right wingers who knock Universal health care because that damned "socialist" Michael Moore says we should have it, so it must be bad! They shoot themselves in the foot simply because they hate the messenger and won't listen to the message.

[laconicsax]

84. It isn't the same message, it's the same words.

If someone posted a video of Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Michelle Malkin, or any other right-wing proponents of hate with the message, "I think they're saying some good things," most people would flame the poster, and with good reason.

There's an axiom I believe has already been posted in this thread: A broken clock is still right twice a day.

Why should we care if Ron Paul, a racist, misogynist, homophobic dirtbag who wishes to dismantle the very government he pretends to serve says something in vague enough language that the underlying message is obscured?

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich may agree on a great many things, but that doesn't mean that we should treat them with equal respect. I find it interesting that people who rail against "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as a foriegn policy are willing to use it when deciding who is worth listening to.

Ron Paul is against the Iraq war!!! He must be awesome!!! He recognizes that our foreign policy positions may have unintended consequences!!! What an awesome guy!!! Let's support him!!! Let's excuse his racism!!! Let's look past his misogyny!!! Let's ignore his homophobia!!! K&R for someone speaking out!!! Ron Paul is a great American!!! Libertarians are really progressive!!!

:puke:

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reggie the dog]

116. show me where he is a racist

[laconicsax]

123. Are we really having to review this?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+ron+paul+racist
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/index.html
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129

His 'official' stance is that people aren't racist (or more specifically, libertarians aren't racist), but the US Government, in conducting a census that includes a section on racial identity, creates racism. To him, "racism" is identifying different races and categorizing people by them in any capacity. Racism, by this definition, has nothing to do with discrimination along racial lines--to discriminate against people with dark skin is only racist if you use a group name to describe their skin color.

During the primaries, you may remember that Paul was the favored candidate of David Duke, Stormfront, Pat Buchanan, and other arguably racist groups and people. You don't earn an endorsement from Stormfront unless your ideology matches theirs in a significant way.

[reggie the dog]

133. ah, touché!

one thing is that back in 1992 I was racist. I lived in a nearly all white suburb of Chicago and the only knowledge I had about blacks was that they were usually on the news for violence, granted I was only 13 but noticed that most people where I lived hated the city and felt scared around blacks so I never really questioned it. After high school I went downtown to the university and I really changed a lot. Is it possible he has changed too since then? granted he was already an adult in 1992.

[laconicsax]

135. Just let it go.

Ron Paul has shown himself time and again to be a despicable human being. If you agree with some of his positions, that's fine, but if your intention is to try to come up with far-reaching justifications to excuse his 'less than ideal' views, then might I suggest you stop before you start trying to excuse his misogyny and homophobia too.

[reggie the dog]

137. as I said touché, point for you

[reggie the dog]

115. because he was one of very few congresspeople smart enough

to vote against war in Afghanistan,
against war in Iraq
against the Patriot Act and
against Patriot Act part 2.
Plus he is against torture, and against the war on drugs. That's why.
This man has stood up and fought for our liberty, and for peace at a time when both parties were stuck in a bipartisan shit on the constitution and kill them all mentality.

[laconicsax]

125. Do you know why he cast those votes?

He is opposed to most American activities abroad, military or diplomatic. He opposes the Patriot Act, it's sequel, and the war on drugs because he has a blanket opposition to all legislation that gives the Federal Government any authority, regardless of what that authority is.

Look beyond the handful of votes he cast against the neocons.

[reggie the dog]

131. at least he has his own priciples and not those

of the neo cons. There is not necessarily anything wrong with not liking federal control and leaving things up to the states, the USA is a federation after all. We can still fight the leftist fight in a more decentralized USA but we would do pollution or econimic regulation, ect. state by state. The idea would be that state capitals are better at understanding the needs of their people than the feds are. At the same time all fifty states have one unified foreign policy. Our current policy eats a shitload of taxes from each state. Isolationism would let us keep much more of that money here. We already have mutually assured destruction and we could keep a state of the art military for DEFENCE.

[laconicsax]

132. So because he isn't a neo con, he deserves our respect?

No thank you.

[reggie the dog]

134. he gets my respect

because he doesnt think I should be a criminal for grass, first and foremost.

[Selatius]

150. He deserves only as much respect as his policy positions on any issue warrant.

He is against the ongoing war in Iraq, for instance. For somebody wanting the war to end, that is sufficient enough as it is.

[pretzel4gore]

17. I wish someone Left would say it as clear...

that's all, Pharaoh....there's a hunger in the land, for plain speaking socialists who defend personal freedom while supporting the common wealth (good) and Ron Paul at least gives free thinkers wiggle room (notice how the faery jack boots kinda push the OP down, to almost smother it in them yabut noway kitten cries:()
item: i will NOT expend energy fighting my own comrades while junyer and the rightwing herd o swine gallop off across the plain away from the cliff Prez Obama gallantly stopped them from going over! I WILL NOT....!!!!

[Titonwan]

61. That's very funny!

"i will NOT expend energy fighting my own comrades while junyer and the rightwing herd o swine gallop off across the plain away from the cliff Prez Obama gallantly stopped them from going over! I WILL NOT....!!!!" I can imagine that in my minds eye, the snorting herd with heels clcking in the dust cloud they kick up. And President Obama, stoically standing his ground at the precipice, deflecting the herd of swinocows of the GOP from certain ignoble deaths! That could be a part of the movie "Australia"! Bravissimo!

[Lorien]

30. He did. He spoke the truth. Unfortunately some people can't look

past the messenger to focus on the message. The fact is that we will all agree with MOST human beings on one or two issues at least. There's a lot I disagree with Paul about, but there's also a fair number of things we agree on. I don't see any harm in saying "you know, he's right"! when it comes to the content of this video.

[SoxFan]

16. "Ron Paul" and "sane" do not belong in the same sentence

So what if he opposed the Iraq War. So did David Duke and Pat Buchanan (both of whom endorsed Paul, by the way).

Does this sound "sane" or "progressive to you?

Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions

If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be

our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin

Endorsed by the white supremacist web site Stormfront.

Supports abolishing the United Nations.

Blame-America-first 19th century isolationism.

Received an "F" from the Genocide Intervention Network.

Earned only a 17% rating from REPUBLICANS for Environmental Protection.

Supports ANWR drilling.

Voted to shield oil companies from MTBE lawsuits.

Opposed reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act.

Sponsored the "Marriage Protection Act," which would bar federal courts from considering challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act.

Compared gays and lesbians to "sexual deviants".

Opposes the minimum wage.

Opposes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and universal health care.

Why anyone would call this guy "sane" or their"favorite Republican" is beyond me.

[pretzel4gore]

20. nattering nabov of negativity..

just kidding SF...
Ron Paul is too comfy in his own skin when considering the less fortunate- which is altogether disagreeable- but....at least he puts into play ideas that the pigmedia gets away with pretending do not exist. Ron Paul does cater to his 'base' but....does anyone notice how this culture of ours literally feast on anyone who ventures off the correct path? Look how tough such guys as Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin, Sean Penn, Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, John Kerry, even Al Sharpton and Rev Jesse and ...Hunter Thompson, were driven to drink etc! Paul shares with them the utter contempt of the pigmedia....and the death threats we nice folk cannot even imagine...
how did the freeper boy put it?
"GET A BRAIN MORANS!"
lol

[MADem]

23. .......unbelievably fleet-footed ......!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm laughing my ass off here....it's that inappropriate and totally WRONG kind of laughter, like when you can't stop at a funeral....in this case, it's triggered by a mix of horror and sheer disbelief. If SNL used those quotes to portray a virulent racist, they couldn't get better copy.

I'm already well aware of Paul's er, proclivities, but that particular set of quotes are new to me.

[Lorien]

32. As far as the content of the video goes; what's insane about it?

I can disagree with Paul on many issues while agreeing with him on the ones he just presented in that video. I can't say that I've ever agreed with anyone 100% of the time, nor have I ever disagreed with anyone 100% of the time.

[digidigido]

37. You guys should read Herbert Spencer. Dr. Paul speaks eloquently and powerfully here

What's happening is contempt prior to investigation regarding this clip. You may not like the
messenger, but the man is speaking the truth here. You can talk about his other positions
all you want, but that doesn't mean he is not dead on center on this

[reggie the dog]

117. you just described a hell of a lot of Democratic reps and senators

too, aside from the stormfront endorsment.

that is why we think Paul is sane.

[CLANG]

18. K&R

He may be a wacko, but what he said in that speech was pretty much true. And he's the ONLY one that seems to have the guts (or nuts) to do so.

[Patchuli]

86. Dennis Kucinich has guts n' nuts too!

As did Mike Gravel and everyone treated him like he was crazy for being honest! Thank heavens the truth is in fashion once again!

[debbierlus]

19. If the people who are criticizing him actually watched the speech

They might be surprised to learn that they agree with what he says in this particular speech. Not everything he has ever said or done. Just the words in the video.

Worth actually watching.

[Pharaoh]

21. Thank you debbierlus

And Clang :toast:

[Chulanowa]

28. Oh, it's not hard to agree with the points he makes

The problem is, he's not making those points because he wants America to be safer and the rest of the world to be safe from our regular beatings. He's not doing this from a sense of scruples and morals that tell him "war is wrong. Imperialism is wrong". He's doing it because he wants America to be an isolationist nation, because that's the absolute only way his nutball economic ideas can ever possibly be implemented on this nation.

[reggie the dog]

118. what the hell are you going on about???

How can an isolationist not think that imperialism is wrong??? That is why they are isolationalist! His nutball economic ideas included an end to corporate welfare, which would favor small businesses. How many small companies delocalize their factories????

[MADem]

22. Ron Paul is a racist dogwhistler. UGH.

Nothing admirable at all about that mendacious cracker: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

The controversial newsletters include rants against the Israeli lobby, gays, AIDS victims and Martin Luther King Jr. -- described as a "pro-Communist philanderer." One newsletter, from June 1992, right after the LA riots, says "order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks."

Another says, "The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day -- are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to 'fight the power,' to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible."

In some excerpts, the reader may be led to believe the words are indeed from Paul, a resident of Lake Jackson, Texas. In the "Ron Paul Political Report" from October 1992, the writer describes carjacking as the "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos."

The author then offers advice from others on how to avoid being carjacked, including "an ex-cop I know," and says, "I frankly don't know what to make of such advice, but even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming."

And then, the asshole who mailed out "The Ron Paul Political Report" containing this disgusting shit pretended not to know what was in a missive bearing his name.

Fuck him. There's NOTHING to admire in that kind of behavior.

[Pharaoh]

27. Isn't it also interesting

That when the corporate media want to distract you from what someone is saying about them, they can get willing people on message boards to deflect the debate about what was actually being said.

[MADem]

36. Oh, bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Ron Paul is a cretin, and as the DU admins have said

here countless times, if you want to tout that racist bastard, use someone else's bandwidth to do it. This isn't Rightwing Underground.

Where do you get off suggesting I am a "willing person" who is influenced by the "corporate media" to "deflect the debate?" You've got some nerve.

You're just pissed off because intelligent people who actually are AWARE of history and current events know what Ron "Racist" Paul is--a rightwing, entitlements-cutting, racist dogwhistler. And if he's your type of guy, you've taken a wrong turn--you are NOT amongst like minds on this forum.

If you want to cheerlead for that undemocratic asshole, I think I am not the only one who would prefer you not do it HERE, either.

In any event, stow the insults just because I don't happen to like your racist, rightwing idol.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoxFan]

45. He doesn't use a dog whistle; more like...

[MADem]

56. Priceless! nt

[file83]

76. Shoot the messenger much?

Even though what you say is true (Ron Paul is a bigot), what does that have to do with the message he delivered?

You know it's a fallacy to shoot the messenger, yet you do it anyways. Go figure.

[MADem]

138. Dick Cheney has a great sense of humor. What's your point?

"Shoot the messenger" my ass. You're suggesting that people at a progressive forum ignore the essential nature of this man because he says a "good" thing.

You know, I had an opportunity to spend some time with Dick Cheney when he was Secretary of Defense. You know what? He had a dry sense of humor and was an excellent conversationalist. He also made some decisions as SECDEF that were indeed very sensible. Does that make his poor decisions as SECDEF and VP, or his positions on the major issues of the day "excusable?" Fuck no.

I prefer to look at the totality of an individual. RP's views and policy positions are the opposite of progressive, and my personal opinion is that any cheerleading for that cretin is simply inappropriate here.

[veganlush]

141. MAdem, you are arguing against yourself, aren't you?..

You said you had an opportunity to spend some time with Dick, and you did it. You listened to him and acknowledged here his good sense of humor. You listened to him, although you disagree with him. Some people here in this forum listened to what Paul had to say in the video. Many agreed with what he said, many also disagree with him on everything else. What they had in common was they listened, at least in this instance, to the video. According to what you have said here, you shouldn't have listened to Dick at all, and so you shouldn't know anything about his sense of humor. Did I miss something here?:shrug:

[MADem]

143. I listened to him because I was in uniform and he was my BOSS.

I didn't have a choice.

I really would have rather been on vacation, and not having to listen to the SECDEF or kiss his or his wife's ass at all. But we do what we must to keep the wolf from the door.

It wasn't a co-equal situation. He was senior, I was subordinate, and his wife wouldn't shut up, in any event. I didn't have any choice in the matter if I wanted to keep my job. And I certainly wasn't going to do too much "sharing" with the guy. I listened, because smart people do a lot of that--it makes blowhards who are gassing at listeners think they're geniuses, too, ironically. The right amount of nodding and affirmative expressions, without saying much of anything, can go a long way. Worth a promotion, if you can keep a straight face.

If I'd had a choice, though, I would have been elsewhere.

[sellitman]

91. I agree. The RP lovefest on the left makes me want to vomit.

Quoting a madman is well........mad.

[MADem]

136. No one is all bad, sure. Even Hitler loved dogs. He was a vegan, too!

Didn't make him a nice guy, or his worldview acceptable!

I think the people who like RP really haven't done their homework. They're too lazy to do the research, and/or they're easily led. He gained a following with college kids who liked his sound bites, but he's a horrid and selfish man with horrid and selfish policy positions.

[veganlush]

142. The 'hitler was a vegetarian' thing was debunked by one of his.

...cooks at a Hamburg hotel, who prepared for him his favorite sausage dish.

[MADem]

144. He was a vegan in the bunker, and elsewhere--and that's been confirmed.

Not every vegan is one from infancy, after all. And some fall off the wagon at times.

He wasn't unfailing in the practice, but he favored it. I don't especially love this site for justifications, but the article is very heavily sourced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

“ Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?...The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions...thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain. ”
—Neugeist/Die Weisse Fahne (German magazine of the New Thought movement)

[veganlush]

145. This was an answer given on a Q&A forum of the website...

..healthyat100.org the website run by John Robbins, would-be heir to the Baskin&Robbins ice cream fortune ( I say would-be because he turned down the family business in favor of advancing his animal rights/healthy planet/healthy people agenda instead. The answer below was to a question signed Anonymous.





Dear Anonymous,

The belief that Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian is widespread, and you are certainly not the only one who carries it. But that doesn’t make it true.

Robert Payne is widely considered to be Hitler’s definitive biographer. In his book, Hitler: The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler, Payne says that Hitler’s “vegetarianism” was a “legend” and a “fiction” invented by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda. According to Payne:

“Hitler’s asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress, Eva Braun… His asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outward show of asceticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people. In fact he was remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic.”

Rynn Berry is historical advisor to the North American Vegetarian Society and is on the Advisory Board of EarthSave. Publisher’s Weekly wrote of his thoughtful essay, “Why Hitler Was Not a Vegetarian,” that it "lays to rest the myth that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian." In the essay, Berry writes of the famous chef Dione Lucas:

“Dione Lucas was a sort of precursor of the popular television ‘French’ chef, Julia Childe. One of the first to open a successful cooking school in the United States, Lucas was also one of the first chefs to popularize French cuisine on television in the 1950s and 1960s. During the 1930s, prior to her coming to the United States, she had worked as a chef at a hotel in Hamburg, where Adolph Hitler was one of her regular customers.”

Indeed, Dione Lucas often cooked for Hitler. In her book, The Gourmet Cooking School Cookbook, she makes it clear that this despot was by no means the vegetarian Goebbel’s myth would have us believe. Writing of her recipe for stuffed squab, for example, she says:

“I learned this recipe when I worked as a chef before World War II, in one of the large hotels in Hamburg, Germany. I do not mean to spoil your appetite for stuffed squab, but you might be interested to know that it was a great favorite of Mr. Hitler, who dined at the hotel often. Let us not hold that against a fine recipe, though.”

Not only did Hitler eat meat, he went so far as to outlaw organizations that advocated vegetarianism, and harshly rebuked all proposals to ease Germany’s food shortages that involved reductions in meat consumption.

So the whole story that Hitler was a vegetarian is simply a myth, invented by the infamous Joseph Goebbels. This man, as you no doubt know, was not particularly loyal to the truth. In fact, one of his more famous sayings is that if you tell a lie often enough, and loud enough, people will believe it. Another was the bigger the lie, the easier it is to get people to believe it.

The fiction that Hitler was a vegetarian was just one more of the many lies that he told often and loud. It’s certainly time that it be seen for what it is — a falsehood deliberately constructed to advance the Nazi cause and to perpetrate an image of Hitler that obscured the reality of who and what he actually was.

Hitler was not a vegetarian. However, many remarkable human beings have been, including Mahatma Gandhi, Leonardo da Vinci, Pythagoras, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Tolstoy, and Dennis Kucinich.

And let’s not forget Paul McCartney.

It’s going to take a lot more than a few of us giving up meat to arrive at a peaceful world, but everything we can do helps.

Thanks for writing and giving me the opportunity to address this question.

John


:shrug: :shrug:

[MADem]

148. I don't think he was a strict vegetarian. But he was one, by most accounts.

But he was one in the bunker. People who survived that situation say so. Some of them were rather wryly amusing in a gallows fashion, talking about how their (quite possibly) 'last meal' was so crappy. And I don't think they were taking cues from Goebbels when they made the statements, either.

Then there's this, from the above cite;

Author Rynn Berry<13>, a vegetarian and animal right advocate, maintains that although Hitler reduced the amount of meat in his diet, he never stopped eating meat completely for any significant length of time. Berry argues that many historians use the term 'vegetarian' incorrectly to describe someone who simply reduced their meat consumption.<1><14>

Traudl Junge, who became Hitler's secretary in 1942, reported that he "always avoided meat" but that his Austrian cook Kruemel sometimes added a little animal broth or fat to his meals. "Mostly the Fuehrer would notice the attempt at deception, would get very annoyed and then get tummy ache," Junge said. "At the end he would only let Kruemel cook him clear soup and mashed potato."<15>

In 1943, Marlene von Exner became Hitler's dietitian and reportedly added bone marrow to his soups without his knowledge because she "despised" his vegetarian diet.<8>

There is also a question as to whether or not Hitler's state policies supported vegetarianism. It is claimed by British Vegetarian society that Hitler persecuted and closed German vegetarian organizations and associations like "Vegetarier-Bund Deutschlands” (closed by Nazis in 1936).

However, this is due to Nazi's blanket ban on any independent society and not to do with any hostility toward vegetarianism, which Hitler personally endorsed. "Vegetarier-Bund Deutschlands" only started its legal activities after the Nazis lost World War II in 1945.<16><17>

From 1936 almost until Hitler's death by suicide in 1945, Theodor Morell, his personal physician, gave him "quack supplements" which contained animal components.<18><14> Morell gave Hitler daily injections of various commercially prepared tonics containing animal by-products including Glyconorm, an injectable compound containing vitamins B1, B2 and C, cardiac muscle, adrenal gland, liver, and pancreas.

Other injected preparations contained placenta, bovine testosterone and extracts containing seminal vesicles and prostate to combat depression. At the time, extracts from animal glands were popularly believed to be "elixirs of youth".<19>


And the sidebar quote is rather interesting--the fear that because Hitler was a vegetarian, he made vegetarians look bad, so they were interested in discrediting him:

“ "Hitler was in no way an ethical vegetarian," Berry asserts. He believes that it is important to counter the assertions of scholars that the chief Nazi abstained from meat "because nonvegetarians tend to use the Nazi issue to discredit vegetarianism in general." ”
—Deborah Rudacille<12>



I see this attitude as a bit frantic, actually. After all, Hitler loved his dog, too--his actions don't taint the behavior of dog lovers around the world. I suppose, though, since the sale of meat is a business, the people who make their money this way might have an interest in comparing vegans/vegetarians to Hitler in an effort to dissuade them from the practice, which would make vegans/vegetarians want to "push back" and become "deniers" to disassociate themselves from that monster. It doesn't fly in my logical mind, though! I think Hitler was a vegetarian in his later life. He may have eaten meat in the thirties, but by the time the war was on, he was a vegetarian. It could be he felt it would be harder to poison vegetables than it would meat...who knows?

[veganlush]

149. I don't have a need to deny, either, I've gotten different ..

...conflicting information on this too..as a vegetarian for many years, I found out first hand and on a daily basis, just how much confusion the issue causes to the population at large. I have had people tell me that they,too, are vegetarians, because they have stopped, or even just reduced, their consumption of RED meat! I guess this makes pigs, chickens, turkeys, etc..vegetables!
Many people assume I eat fish too. I don't fault these people much, it's not their thing so they don't make a point of knowing about it. I try not to lecture too much about it, but my kids would tell you that my efforts at NOT lecturing are failures! I also have met people, who, upon learning of my proclivity, say 'yeah, I like vegetables too' thinking that the whole point of vegetarianism is just to eat your veggies along with the meat!

[ProfessorPlum]

24. Wow. RP might be crazy, racist, and repressive

as well as a member of the GOP . . .

but I have to say, that is almost more truth in what he was saying here than in a Dennis Kucinich speech. Way to go, Paul, but I wonder what your motivation is.

[Titonwan]

35. He has no ulterior motive.

The black listing worked, that's all. There's not a story (or smear) that I haven't heard. Look at his record and then talk smack. The ones professing to be independent here are not. You wouldn't know what free thinking was if it run up and bit you in the ass. You read what you want to when you seek what you've made your mind up on. Circular stupid logic. I'm a LIBERAL, by the way, but I can see and admire an enemy if he loves his country as much as this man. Some of you will never know just how tiny you are at this point in time. Or ever.

[SoxFan]

44. You're liberal. I'm Whitney Houston. Nice to meet you.

[MADem]

140. .....!!!!.....

:rofl:

Thank you for my laugh of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say, give us a rendition of that Greatest Love of All tune!! I always liked that one!

:thumbsup:

[slipslidingaway]

63. He's been saying the same thing for years n/t

[Reform]

25. im suprised

to see all the republican talking points here.
A lot of the hate rhetoric i have read in this thread comes straight from free republic.
That is indeed sad
I would figure democrats would know how to digest that garbage.
Anyway, like also said in this thread if you actually listen to what the man is saying, im sure you would agree with most of it.

[DutchLiberal]

29. Ron Paul makes more sense than most Democrats.

At least on foreign policy.

[SoxFan]

43. Oh really?

Abolishing the United Nations?

Denying that there is a genocide in Darfur?

Opposing funding for the Peace Corps?

Opposing any form of international humanitarian assistance?

Cooking up conspiracy theories about the Kyoto accord being a "new world order" plot?

Which of these "makes sense"?

[DutchLiberal]

100. What he said in the video makes sense. You try to distract attention away from that.

Because he's delivering a message not very flattering to America, that's why most Democrats don't want to talk about it.

I'm more of a Kucinich-fan, myself. He also speaks about this, but at least he's sane as far as domestic policy goes.

[IsItJustMe]

48. Yeah he does.

[SoxFan]

104. Abolishing Social Security?

Getting rid of the Peace Corps?

Opposing climate change legislation?

Oh, yeah, he's a real solid progressive. That's why David Duke loves him so much.

[DeltaLitProf]

34. Way to plagiarize John Lennon

But yes the guy has a bad case of being right . . . despite the many ways he is often wrong.

[veganlush]

yes pharoh, lorien..I agree with you and others..

Run time: 03:59 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fTVn2tMI3E   Posted on YouTube: February 13, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 16, 2009 By DU Member: veganlush Views on DU: 9086

 
...if you watch the video, you can't help but agree with damn near all of it, and certainly none of it is 'crazy'. His point, and the way he makes it, is profound and thought provoking. That's what discussion is all about and this is a forum for discussion. You don't have to agree with everything someone says, but you should listen. Being narrow minded is THEIR job, on the right side of the idealogical spectrum. We could wipe out all the mosquitoes in the world, only to find out that an enzyme in their bodies could've been used for a cancer vaccine. What if the cure for cancer ends up being where no one wanted to look?

[veganlush]

38. yes pharoh, lorien..I agree with you and others..

...if you watch the video, you can't help but agree with damn near all of it, and certainly none of it is 'crazy'. His point, and the way he makes it, is profound and thought provoking. That's what discussion is all about and this is a forum for discussion. You don't have to agree with everything someone says, but you should listen. Being narrow minded is THEIR job, on the right side of the idealogical spectrum. We could wipe out all the mosquitoes in the world, only to find out that an enzyme in their bodies could've been used for a cancer vaccine. What if the cure for cancer ends up being where no one wanted to look?

[veganlush]

40. ok, i don't know how my reply ended up duplicated...

:shrug:

[Pharaoh]

46. It's quite alright Veganlush!

What you said bared repeating :toast:

[Titonwan]

41. Wow... an actual human being.

I submit the battlefield to you, O sire. Well done.

[wildbilln864]

50. K&R for strict Constitutionalism.. nt

:patriot:

[SoxFan]

53. Hurray for segregation and screwing employees!

[reggie the dog]

119. where has he ever said he was against plessy ferguson?

He does not like northerners painting southerners as racists compared to the good north. I taught in Chicago Public schools. It is not rare to have schools, including high schools, which to this day are 99.9% black or latino. Desegregating the south by force of the federal government let northerners prove to themselves that they were not racist while they never bothered to desegregate their own territories.

[timtom]

147. Amen to that!

cf. "Rednecks" by Randy Newman

(Removed link to youtube because of its incendiary lyrics in todays PC climate. Many people have had difficulty with Randy's deep sense of irony and sardonicism, so you'll have to judge for yourselves.)

[Titonwan]

58. Yeah, that Constitution can be troubling,

especially for a President that didn't have much use for it. We probably wouldn't be broke and overextended in two wars if Congress had to declare Wars. I hear tell that you can even change parts of it if Washington sees fit. Keeping up with the times and all. I say we keep it! Even better, I say our politicians follow it. That Rule of Law thingy is catchy :)

[femrap]

55. Yes, what if they learned the truth about

Ron Paul. He was an OB-GYN who was and is Anti-Choice. He may be the only OB-GYN against Choice. Every OB-GYN I know realizes that women will have abortions with or without the legal ability to do so. Of course, nowadays, the cost for a safe abortion is beyond most poor women's budgets....as the cost of Birth Control Pills. But Ronny doesn't give a rat's ass.

So let's tell everyone the Truth about Ron Paul....he thinks Abortion is an 'issue' for the boyz at the State Level to decide. See, Ron loves FREEDOM. And Ron HATES GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE as long as it applies to those connected to a penis. Ronny is a fan of Compulsory Motherhood. Fatherhood? Not so much.

He is a complete HYPOCRITE just like all the other asshole Repugnants. He might understand economics to a certain extent, but he has no understanding of Freedom and Justice for All.

Twerp.

[libodem]

57. I have to agree with the guy

he makes good sense.

[stlsaxman]

59. yeah well...

fuck ron paul (r).

has this become Republican Underground?

[Titonwan]

60. If it's any consolation to you.

The repugs hate him too. :) That's a big plus in my book. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich never stood a chance running for President. The establishment saw extreme danger to the State. State meaning the status quo. Although I've voted Democrat all of my life and don't plan of differing, I will always admire his courage. I like and admire Chuck Hagel too. I don't believe GOP is contagious, but it HAS had few people with their hearts in the right place. As a matter of fact, if Congress was populated with their sort (on the Red side), I don't think things would get so childish.

[stlsaxman]

70. Hagel has redeemable values, Paul, on the other hand, does not.

with all the things that Paul wants to eliminate from our society- everything he stands for- which is total right-wing Norquist style get government out of our lives politics- how can anyone be fooled by these speeches of his? the guy makes Tom Delay look like Paul Wellstone.

[slipslidingaway]

62. Here is the text, thanks for posting....

and what if one of the leaders of our party were to ask the same questions.


http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/tx14_paul/WhatIf.shtml

Statement of Congressman Ron Paul

United States House of Representatives


What If?

February 12, 2009

"What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?

What if propping up repressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel?

What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan – and bombing Pakistan – is directly related to the hatred directed toward us and has nothing to do with being free and prosperous?

What if someday it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade-off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens, no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, and Afghan people are killed or displaced?

What if we finally decide that torture, even if called “enhanced interrogation techniques,” is self-destructive and produces no useful information – and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?

What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?

What if all wartime spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing?

What if we finally see that wartime conditions always undermine personal liberty?

What if conservatives, who preach small government, wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?

What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?

What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?

What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?

What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?

What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?

What if the American people learn the truth: that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and that it never changes from one administration to the next?

What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?

What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?

What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression?

What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America?

What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded – nothing!

What happens if my concerns are justified and ignored – nothing good!"

[slipslidingaway]

65. War Made Easy - TRAILER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5CF5pfVzLI


Ron Paul...

"...What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?..."


A few other clips from the movie here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=270376&mesg_id=270376

[Titonwan]

68. It's even more beautiful when you read it.

Thank you slipslidingaway. The only reason I came out of the woods was hearing a few candidates protesting the wars. I know firsthand the hollow abandonment one feels when their country lies to them. When it dawned on me that Iraq's WMD's were Viet Nam's Gulf of Tonkin, I became enraged with a Country hijacked once more. I hated McNamara's lies and every time Junior would smirk at me, Robert's face would become his. There's a reason we're not allowed to see the dead returning or having a draft. Dick Cheney learned that lesson the last time people saw the horrors of our actions. People rose up like lions and fought for it's end. I was on both sides of that particular fence. So, upon hearing but three people that sounded genuine in their desire to end this senseless conflict, I decided to don the activist's armor once more. And have fought tooth and nail to see Bush and gang receive justice for their travesties. I march once more in March to the Pentagon, to protest this continuation of "special interests" that's really a racket. I'll let someone more qualified than me, tell you a story, a career Marine Corp Officer, who turned down two Congressional Medal of Honors because of his disgust.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Nothing's changed. I'm still going to work at Bush and Cheney seeing Criminal Justice, of that I'm certain.

[slipslidingaway]

71. Nothing will change if we let ourselves be categorized by those

holding the real power...divide and conquer only works because we Allow it to work.

Some comments in this thread are just another example, we shoot the messenger instead of asking why our leaders are not saying the same thing???

:(


Thanks for the Butler link and for standing against the war and against the BushCo crimes.

Welcome to DU

:hi:

[bvar22]

64. A bunch of people attacking the messenger here.

This is NOT about Ron Paul.
This is about what Ron Paul read into the Congressional Record today.


K&R

[dipsydoodle]

73. Hear, hear

n/t

[penguin7]

72. The guy has not been making racist appeals,

so quit trying to blow smoke.

[Pharaoh]

75. Thank you all People

Who bothered to actually read or hear what Congressman Paul had to say in this speech.

I don't care for most republicans and I don't care either for quite a few Democrats. But when someone is speaking and saying the things said here, you really have to listen.

Political partisanship is just another way for the status quo (corporate interests) to divide and conquer.

[deadmessengers]

80. Fuck Ron Paul.

Fuck that cowardly bigot Ron Paul, fuck everything he stands for, and fuck his legions of deluded followers.

[pjt7]

82. How Can Ron Paul be

such a terrible man, if he is good friends w/ Dennis Kucinich?

Dennis told me Paul is a very good man.

[deadmessengers]

83. All you need to know about Ron Paul

Regardless of whether Dennis Kucinich likes him or not, this should be all one needs to know about Ron Paul's character. Back in 1994, he published this in his newsletter, and then later backpedaled like a little piece of chickenshit, pointing the finger at an unnamed "staffer" who supposedly wrote this on his behalf:

"
Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots. Many more are going to have difficultly avoiding the belief that our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin. This conclusion may not be entirely fair, but it is, for many, entirely unavoidable.

Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action.... Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.

Perhaps the L.A. experience should not be surprising. The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics.The looting in L.A. was the welfare state without the voting booth. The elite have sent one message to black America for 30 years: you are entitled to something for nothing. That's what blacks got on the streets of L.A. for three days in April. Only they didn't ask their Congressmen to arrange the transfer.

"

You want to support that bigot? Go right ahead. It's your right to do so. But, each and every person who knows about this and still supports Ron Paul is just as disgracefully racist as he is. Again, I say: Fuck Ron Paul, and fuck every last one of his deluded followers.

[wildbilln864]

92. so Paul didn't say what you claim he said!?

It was a staffer? :shrug:

[deadmessengers]

99. It was published under his name.

The byline on that article in his newsletter said "By Ron Paul:". When people in his district started freaking out about the fact that he put his name to something so flagrantly racist, he went into full-on weasel mode and blamed an anonymous staffer for the article that he signed his name to.

[wildbilln864]

103. So he signed his name....

and didn't read it? :shrug: A mistake indeed!

[deadmessengers]

129. Not a mistake.

Just a coward who didn't have the courage to own up to his own words of hatred and bigotry.

[wildbilln864]

130. okay, maybe so. I don't know. nt

[DutchLiberal]

101. I see you're opting for an intellectual reply, for a change?

:rofl:

You sound like a freeper, man.

[rateyes]

105. "Fuck EVERYTHING he stands for??" Really....

He is opposed to preemptive war. Fuck that??? Nah. I'm not in the habit of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[reggie the dog]

120. so you say fuck voting agaist the patriot acts 1 and 2 as well as fuck

voting against Iraq and Afghanistan wars and fuck voting to end the war on drugs. Interesting. See, I never supported W. on foreign policy or the war on terror or the war on drugs.

[valerief]

81. Great speech. I think most of us believe what he said already. nt

[baldguy]

87. Ron Paul is not your freind.

Just because he makes the right noises regarding one issue does not mean he is sane.

[FLAprogressive]

88. OK...so Ron Paul is right 10% of the time....the other 90% of the time he's DEAD wrong. He's DU's

favorite John Bircher though.....

[zipplewrath]

90. That was really bad

I'm sure there have been worse speeches on the floor, but this has to rank right up there. It was the longest exercise in flawed logic I've seen in some time. He spends the entire time tossing up strawmen, and begging the questions, two of the most fundamentally flawed exercises in logic. He characterizes over 100 years of history ONLY by its failures and imperfections and completely ignores any accomplishment. His entire approach to politics is to re-argue 100 years of progress and attempt to reclassify it as failure. We aren't perfect and never will be. There are lessons to learn from history. But one lesson never to learn is that somehow we should erase 100 years of history and start over. We start HERE and move on.

[wildbilln864]

93. His entire approach to politics....

is to follow the Constitution! That's what makes him crazy I guess. :sarcasm:

[zipplewrath]

97. That's pretty lame

That's the same kinda criticism we received from the Bush Administration. If you don't agree with my conclusion, you don't support America. Paul has some poorly established points of view about the US Constitution that don't align with history or the vast majority of constitutional scholars. That alone doesn't make him wrong, but it surely doesn't mean that his critics "don't like following the constitution".

[raystorm7]

94. I dont care for RP, but I'm sure if Dennis Kucinich said the same things you'll be all over him too?

Which in all honesty, Dennis Kucinich has said the same things which IMOP ring true. Give the man the credit he deserves and move on.

[zipplewrath]

96. Nah.

I've never like Kucinich much. He obviously supports more of the conclusions I would draw, but I've never liked how he got to them.

[Union Yes]

95. Afghanistan - Graveyard of Nations.

Afghanistan already has and will continue to hand 'Murika it's own ass, one filled body bag at a time.

Tribal armies of Afghan handed the former Soviet Union it's ass, and WE ARE NEXT.

AS a Marxist, I agree with Paul on this issue and a small handful of other issues. Paul is spot on correct as far as our military complex and the cost of our militaristic empire. And how our imperialistic ways have bankrupted our nation.

Again as a Marxist, I agree with Paul on these issues but thats also where my agreement with Paul tends to stop.

For the past 28 years our military spending has been the largest sector of spending in our federal budget and is largely responsible for our $11 Trillion+ national debt.

Paul makes alot of sense in this speech and I highly recommend people listen to it.

Our military empire will be our downfall.

3 days ago my niece who is serving in the Air Force and stationed in Alaska, recieved her deployment orders for Afghanistan. Her sister who is serving in the Minnesota NG is scheduled for Afghan deployment in '10.

Where is the change that we were promised.

This is not the change that I voted for Mr. President.

[pjt7]

108. Good Post

Union Yes.

[diane in sf]

98. I agree with what Ron Paul is saying about war, that doesn't mean I'd ever vote for him.

[reggie the dog]

106. He would be a great president

I think he would be a lot like Eisenhower. I would have loved to have seen him against Kucinich, it would have been win really big with Dennis, or win big with Ron.

[pjt7]

110. Ron Paul alone wouldn't

be good, with Dennis K, there would be more balance.

I honestly hope Paul starts a 3rd party & brings in Nader, Kucinich, Jessie V, the Green Party & whomever else.

[reggie the dog]

121. Paul as president

would have worked if there would have been a new anti imperialist, anti torture party in congress. I would have prefered Kucinich as per his stance on abortion, but Paul is damn good to defend most constitutional rights.

[Selatius]

151. Generally, I'd rather have Kucinich over Paul any day of the week.

Kucinich has proven time and time again that he is also a friend to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and unlike Ron Paul, he believes in social programs to help people.

[LSK]

111. if you truly are open minded, you will watch the video before posting

Those of you posting without watching the video make me ashamed of sharing this website with you. You represent nothing of what DU represents.

[balantz]

113. Whether or not you like Ron Paul

He is one of the only members of Congress who call it like it is.

[L. Coyote]

122. That sounded just like Abe Lincoln, for the most part.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up,
and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.
This is a most valuable--a most sacred right--a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world,"
Abraham Lincoln, speech in the U.S. House of Representatives, subject: The War on Mexico. Delivered January 12, 1848.

At about the time of that statement Mexico City was under siege by United States troops.
Palace defenders including military cadets numbered a mere 800. President Polk defended
his ordering the Mexican invasion, but Lincoln had this to say about what provoked the hostility,

"The marching of an army into the midst of a peaceful Mexican settlement, frightening the inhabitants away,
leaving their growing crops and their property to destruction, to you may appear a perfectly amiable, peaceful,
unprovoking procedure; but it does not appear so to us. So to call such an act, to us appears no other than a naked,
absurdity...the war was unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced by the President."
A. Lincoln, July 27, 1848.

"...refusing to accept a cessation of territory, would be to abandon all our just demands, and to wage the war,
bearing all the expense, without a purpose or definite object."
President Polk.

On Feb. 2, 1848, the Guadalupe Hidalgo Treaty was signed. Mexico conceded Texas, California, and the Territory
of New Mexico for 15 million pesos. Today = one home.

[slipslidingaway]

126. Another message that was dismissed....

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr090601.htm

"...We are now witnessing the effects of the accumulated problems of thirty years of fiat money-not only the dollar but also all the world currencies-something the world has never before experienced. Exactly how it plays out is yet unknown. Its severity will be determined by future monetary management- especially by the Federal Reserve. The likelihood of quickly resolving the deeply ingrained and worldwide imbalances built up over thirty years is remote. Yielding to the addiction of credit creation (as has been the case with every market correction over the past thirty years) remains irresistible to the central bankers of the world. Central planners, who occupy the seats of power in every central bank around the world, refuse to accept the fact that markets are more powerful and smarter than they are...


The day of reckoning for all this mischief is now at hand. The dollar is weakening, in spite of all the arguments for its continued strength. Economic law is overruling political edicts. Just how long will the US dollar and the US taxpayer be able to bail out every failed third-world economy and pay the bills for policing the world with US troops now in 140 nations around the world? The answer is certainly not forever and probably not much longer, since the world economies are readjusting to the dislocations of the past thirty years of mismanagement and misallocation of capital, characteristic of fiat money...


After the NASDAQ collapsed last year, the flow of funds into real estate accelerated. The GSEs accommodated by borrowing without restraint to subsidize new mortgages, record sales and refinancing. It's no wonder the price of houses are rising to record levels.

Refinancing especially helped the consumers to continue spending even in a slowing economy. It isn't surprising for high credit-card debt to be frequently rolled into second mortgages, since interest on mortgage debt has the additional advantage of being tax-deductible. When financial conditions warrant it, leaving financial instruments (such as paper assets), and looking for hard assets (such as houses), is commonplace and is not a new phenomenon. Instead of the newly inflated money being directed toward the stock market, it now finds its way into the rapidly expanding real-estate bubble. This, too, will burst as all bubbles do. The Fed, the Congress, or even foreign investors can't prevent the collapse of this bubble, any more than the incestuous Japanese banks were able to keep the Japanese "miracle" of the 1980s going forever.

Concerned Federal Reserve economists are struggling to understand how the wealth effect of the stock market and real estate bubble affect economic activity and consumer spending. It should be no mystery, but it would be too much to expect the Fed to look to itself and its monetary policy for an explanation and assume responsibility for engineering the entire financial mess we're in..."

[CLANG]

127. Some of you people are putting the cart before the horse

Nobody is saying Ron Paul is a saint. It's not about Ron Paul. It's about this particular video, and the message therein. I really have lost a little respect for some of you yahoos.

[GrimReefa]

139. Ron Paul is a libertarian

Which means that he is going to be right about half the time and wrong about half the time.

Here's the thing though: what he is right about, he is really right about, and right now, he is right about an American foreign policy that is directly resulting in the deaths of thousands of Americans, millions of Arabs and Afghans, and is systematically destroying the American economy.

Right now, the military industrial complex has a stranglehold on the American economy and, indeed, the American way of life. And the only person in Congress who is standing up to it and calling it out is Ron Paul. We can argue with him about the need for government services later. But this country can not move forward as long as the Haliburtons and Lockheed Martins of the world are commanding our foreign policy.

And if you don't like people on this board standing up for the guy, maybe you should contact your Congressperson and ask why it is that the only person in Congress willing to tell America the real reasons why we were attacked on 9/11, and the real reasons we went to war with Iraq, and the real reasons we have extended our military to every corner of the globe, looking for trouble, is a Republican from Texas. If more Democrats were saying what Ron Paul is saying in this video, then we would have a Party that we could REALLY get behind.

[mmonk]

146. You know you'll get attacked here for pointiing out when he is undeniably correct

about our foreign policy and the continued assault on our Constitution but I applaud you for posting it. They always bring out their straw dogs that if you support what he says when he is undeniably correct, you support him on all the issues in which he is wrong. But they miss the conversations we should all be having in this country when they do so.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

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