The Truth About H.R. 811 - Election Deception

[reprehensor]

Run time: 09:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFHNfKWkCs   Posted on YouTube: May 21, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: May 23, 2007 By DU Member: reprehensor Views on DU: 1879

 
"For all who love their country and want to regain true liberty--we MUST take back our elections! Right now, it begins with STOPPING PASSAGE of this DANGEROUS FAKE SOLUTION TO ELECTRONIC VOTE FRAUD, RUSH HOLT'S H.R. 811."

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Paper ballots, please.

[Junkdrawer]

1. The problem is the "random" election night audits...

In Ohio, we saw that even though the law stated "random", the recount was anything but random AND NOTHING WAS DONE.

[yowzayowzayowza]

2. Ya gotta be kidding!!

Paper ballots hand counted on election night? 120,000,000 ballots times how many races?

Yea, whatever.

[ThomCat]

4. Why not?

Other countries hand count their ballots. It's not like one person has to count them. You have people in each district doing it and it can get done pretty quickly.

[yowzayowzayowza]

6. Please point out a country that counts...

at least three national races on election night by hand. Thx.

[ThomCat]

10. Doesn't Canada still count their ballots by hand?

:)

[Junkdrawer]

13. Canada hand counts the ballots in front of citizen witnesses from ALL parties...

and they report the results in less than 2 hours.

[yowzayowzayowza]

14. For a Single Race. Yes?

[troubleinwinter]

18. This is a Canadian ballot

This is a U.S. ballot

[Junkdrawer]

19. So, the US had to wait for computers before we had democracy?

Oh, wait. We hand counted paper ballots for almost 200 years BEFORE we introduced computers into the mix.

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. Once again, as the video advocates...

"Please point out a country that counts... at least three national races on election night by hand. Thx."

Simple question, yes?

[Junkdrawer]

22. Again: Did the US wait for computers before we had democracy?

Simple question, yes?

[yowzayowzayowza]

23. No, they waited several days and fought thru all manner of

manual counting mischief before automated processes were available.

Now, answer my question. Pretty please?

"..point out a country that counts... at least three national races on election night by hand."

Fact of the matter is that the position advocated in the OP video is completely unprecedented.

[Junkdrawer]

24. Yeah, I'd rather have my vote stolen instantly before I'm forced...

to wait several hours to have it counted honestly.

:sarcasm:

And it didn't take days...on close races you might have to wait until the next morning.

Now, since we have indeed "noised up" the ballot with initiatives and minor races, let's start by separating out the Federal races for hand-counted paper ballots and let the machines count the ballot initiatives and school board races.

[yowzayowzayowza]

25. Nonresponsive. n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. and when is this supposed to happen, what decade?

is this in real life or in the same frame of thought that brought us
votes for Nader in 2000 in Florida?

[troubleinwinter]

16. Ohfergawdsakes.

"Other countries hand count". Those that hand count have ONE, occaisionally two races per ballot. We typically have over 50 races per ballot.

"You have people in each district doing it". Nice idea. Have you looked into it? Are you aware that we currently have shortages of poll workers and it is becoming more of a problem? Got a plan?

"Can get done pretty quickly." Neato!!! Wanna show us the plan to recruit and train the over a million vote counters by 2008? Got the legislation in the works?

Have you studied and read HR-811? I can see that you have not.

Here is a hand-counted ballot:




Here is a typical U.S. ballot:





Please show your calculations on how many people would be needed at each polling place to count, supervise and judge such ballot counting.

If you think you can make HCPB happen, DO SO. H.R.811 doesn't prevent you from passing handcounts whenever you work out a system and pass it, it dumps paperless DREs!

Opposing H.R. 811 is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Junkdrawer]

20. Computers didn't usher democracy into America. Honest.

We hand counted paper ballots for almost 200 years BEFORE we introduced computers into the mix.

[kster]

27. A simple way to Hand Count Paper Ballots and could be put in place

immediately, but the the Pretend Elected CROOKS will do all they can to keep the Counting secret.

The call to action now is: HCPB for all federal races in the 2008 elections. This would mean hand counting just 1-3 races (the president and vice president; your U.S. senator if s/he is up for re-election; your U.S. Representative). Yes, we would need two ballots, one for these races and one for all other contests and questions on the ballots. Canada already uses an HCPB system for its federal races. Various states and municipalities already have protocols for HCPB, and one has been presented in this paper. These could easily be adapted from one jurisdiction to another. Elections are governed by state rather than federal statutes (HAVA notwithstanding). According to electionline.org, a website that provides an ongoing analysis of election reform, “Each state strikes a unique balance in allocating responsibility for elections between state and local governments. A survey of all 50 states reveals a wide spectrum of power-sharing arrangements.” There is a “Snapshot of the States” on pp. 11-14 of the Election Reform Briefing. When you begin this work, call your local Secretary of State and get the exact rules for your state.

http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/specials/article.2006-04-10.1693298872

[ima_sinnic]

5. at the precinct level, it is not that big a deal -- or is "convenience"

more important to you than a true count of the people's votes?

whoever said the results have to be known within minutes?

gee, I guess without electronics, we just couldn't have elections.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. The alternative is letting them steal the election

again.

[fooj]

3. What a crock of bullshit.

Does anyone FACT CHECK anything anymore?

[PDJane]

7. I've been concerned about this.....

because it is very, very easy to hack a system without leaving a paper trail. Programming is easily hacked when it is designed to be that way, a computer can tell you it's doing one thing and register another; it's easily done. There is a lot of information out there on how the election machines have been hacked. But in addition to the hacked votes, there is all the ways that this administration has disenfranchised the black and hispanic vote, intimidated people from voting, and made it hard for the folks who are poor to afford the necessary ID to vote under voter ID laws. The system is severely bent, if not totally broken.

Yeah, it's done differently elsewhere.

Canada hand counts paper ballots, has a system in place to do so, and has the election results ready within 24 hours.

It can be done, and it should be done.

In addition to the hand counting of ballots, however, and the paper trail, the counting of ballots should be open and observable all the way around.

Canada does have a totally different system; Elections Canada is a separate governmental department which reports to Parliament, not to any individual. They keep the voter lists, arrange for periodic pre-election enumeration, and handle the ballot printing, etc., etc. The Chief Electoral Officer and his Deputy are not entitled to vote.

However, in a recent change, being convicted of a criminal offense does not abrogate one's franchise; any citizen who is 18 years of age on polling day is entitled to vote.

The franchise is too precious to let it be warped the way it has been in the last three elections.

[IndyOp]

8. Bull shit. (n/t)

[ooglymoogly]

12. I say bullshit to your bullshit and raise you two bullshits.

and I kick this post.

[Flagrante]

11. These women are exactly right

Paper ballots are the only way, and hand counting them is not an overbearing requirement. Verification through audits if the results are significantly different from the exit polls should also be automatic. Oregon is very close to having the right system, almost assuring that it won't be adopted nationwide. Anyone who doesn't trust e-voting, and that should be you, should be voting absentee until this mess finally gets straightened out. Any computer or eletronics professional will tell you that e-voting is just asking for trouble. Counting ballots is not rocket science, and it does not need a high tech solution that can only add problems.

[cynthia]

15. I disagree with the pitch for absentee voting

I was at my precinct when the polls closed to collect the report of vote totals. It meant that I arrived just before the polls closed, watched the last few people cast their ballots and was locked inside while they tallied the votes.

Everyone who had voted by absentee ballot, had had their votes sorted into envelopes and sent to their respective precincts. The election judge then opened the envelope at counting time and added these votes into the precinct.

As far as I could tell, it did not guarantee that an absentee ballot was more secure or more likely to be counted. In my opinion, there was a risk that the ballot would get lost and never counted, and it just slowed down the counting process.

In my precinct they use the optical scanners, which I know can be hacked as well. But it seems reasonable to count them by hand. Sure it would take a little longer, but not much. Generally the precincts are divided by population so each precinct would be carrying a similar burden. The difference would show up in voter turnout.

[fooj]

26. Do your research. Then get back to me.

You might want to find out where this BULLSHIT comes from. Enough said.

[troubleinwinter]

17. Egads.

No, not Vickie Karp! Member of the Board of Directors of Bev Harris's org. Member of the Board when BBV sucked in nearly a million bucks in a year, but they were too clueless to make a cent in interest on that million donated pile.

How dense does one have to be not to make any interest on a million bucks? I make interest on MY checking account.

Yuh, sure, she knows WTF she's talking about. Oh, well, she has a book for sale (Bev Harris as a contributor).

Hey, if H.R. 811 passes, there won't likely be any more books to sell or million dollar bank accounts or $90,000 salaries for certain "activists".