Footage from Baharestan Square massacre (very graphic)

[Turborama]

Run time: 02:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ8L-9QQazI   Posted on YouTube: June 24, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 24, 2009 By DU Member: Turborama Views on DU: 3545

 

[eagertolearn]

1. How can they protect themselves against armed men. I hope these men

have a problem sleeping at night after doing this to their own people.

[Deep13]

10. They don't.

The true fanatic never questions his own brutality.

[finisterre531]

11. The Mullah Sleep Well

They speak to God you know like Bush does?

[Grinchie]

2. I believe this is a western false flag operation...

Honestly, can anyone claim with absolute certainty that this is really occurring as it is being presented by Western Media? For years, Iran has been painted as this Evil Empire, by the U.S. Government, yet all of a sudden, we find that they are just as enamored with electronic gadgets such as cell phone cameras that take crappy, pixelated pseudovideos for extended periods of time.

We also see images of what appear to be Iranians, but when asked, could you tell the difference between Iraqi or Iranian people?

My take on this whole situation is that we cannot trust what is being presented by the media anymore. We as a Nation have to be ultra cautious until irrefutable proof is provided. At this point, the images we have seen do not pass the smell test in regards to the Viral quality of the Video, the enormous voulme of video that shows only unrest and oppression, and generic crowds of people of Muslim descent that could be in any number of countries in the world.

The U.S. along with the British Government are making a concerted effort to shape opinion harmful to the existing regime in order to destabilize it. This has been done before, and it is happening again.

At this point, my view is that we cannot trust what is being shown on the web or on television regarding this situation, as it has the same fingerprints as the Rose Revolution that installed Saakashvili in Soviet Georgia, and the similar revolution in the Ukraine.

Pay attention emotional Americans, you are most likely being exploited without your knowledge, falling into a very easily crafted illusion brought to you by the spooks at Unconventional Warfare Central.

[LiberalLovinLug]

3. Do I exist?

Nothing is certain my friend, you must weigh everything and come to your own conclusions. So lets weigh in:

There is obviously an upset crowd throwing rocks and you hear gunfire. If it is a "false flag" then they are some hired actors of middle eastern decent who are willing to help the USA and the CIA to mislead other middle eastern people. It must have been difficult to find these callous actors, and what to do about, and keep quiet, the ones that they auditioned and that refused to participate? Also if they went to all the trouble of setting this up, you'd think they could at least show more of the crowd, and the police etc. to get the full effect, don't you think, rather than mostly focus on the injured man?...(although he is doing a superb job at keeping absolutely limp all covered in fake blood, while being dragged around the street).

You say it is a false flag operation, and then tell us it may just be a film of "generic crowds of people of Muslim descent that could be in any number of countries in the world" What other middle east countries are now protesting/rioting in the streets? Do you think they do this all the time in Muslim countries? And if it was footage from say last years Gaza invasion, don't you think this footage would have not gotten out sooner and been used for THAT conflict for their own needs of propaganda? And of course they would also be able to edit in the time and Arabic text.

And what pray tell is the evil objective of this false video being released? To destabilize Iran and cause unrest as you claim? You sure do not give the people of Iran much credit. So they would have meekly accepted the results if it wasn't for YouTube and Twitter?

Explain this logical loop: In order to be influenced by YouTube videos they would have to be a modern enough nation, and young enough, to be internet savy and have cell phones and computers, which by all accounts they are. Ok, then they also must be able to use those same social networks and take videos themselves right? So which ones are the "false flags" and which ones are the real ones? And why would the CIA spend money creating fake ones when the people of Iran are making them up for them for free?

So any footage (The more amateur the more suspicious) that we get from areas of turmoil are not to be trusted? So much for the internet empowering truthseekers. If I didn't know any better I'd think you work for CNN. Which is another point. The "Western Media" is only stealing footage from the social networks on the internet, how is it in their control? Ah unless all the media companies together with the CIA and vast groups of green clad middle eastern actors are all working together..hmmm maybe you're right...

And the last point: Even if its all one big conspiracy to cause unrest in Iran, what is the purpose? To entice the population to rise up and install a more moderate, less antagonistic leadership? The end, if not the means, would be a good thing no?

I'm sorry but your assertions are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the deep end. If I lived in your world, the Tianamen Square stand-off never happened, the pictures at Kent State were fake, and the moon walk was a concoction.

[Why Syzygy]

5. So, you never heard of Pallywood?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

[Grinchie]

8. Thanks for posting that link. I had not seen it before

The video certainly demonstrated the staged nature of these types of things.

One also has to ask oneself how much money they spent on the Ambualances, ammo and extras.

[twitomy]

15. Some people REALLY need to get a shave

...with Occams Razor...
:crazy:

[Why Syzygy]

19. There is nothing Occam about tv and film.

Watch the youtube.

So you think the visual effects in movies are REAL because you can't see all the video manipulations?

[twitomy]

20. Uhh no,, but,,

"The simpler the explanation the more likely it is better than a complex one."

And absent any evidence that supports the complex one, which is what you are proposing, I will go with the simpler explanation.

Thank-you,

Thank-you very much...

[Why Syzygy]

21. If you

stop being so 'right' and watch the pallywood video, you can stop posting silly comments.
THAT'S THE EVIDENCE. D'oy! That would be the simplest explanation. Look at the EVIDENCE! :freak:

[twitomy]

22. Okaaayy I watched it..

So the Palestinians are lousy actors, and is an example of bullshit propaganda...(which
has been around since films were invented...)

So how does this "prove" Iran is staged?? I'm at a loss here....

[Grinchie]

7. Shaping the opinion of the masses is an important part of Unconventional warfare.

All one needs to do is do a Google Search on Unconventional Warfare and I believe you will be able to find the U.S. Army's manual on the subject.

You are assuming that the target audience is Iranian, but as I said before, we are suddenly deluged with footage from Iran, where there has been almost a 98% embargo of any footage from the inside of Iran for the last decade, so one has to question this exponential increase in exposure.

A few months back there was a viral video released on Youtube regarding H.R. 875. It appeared overnight and warned us that it may soon be illegal to grow a tomato. The video was a total fabrication, and appeared overnight in order to shape media opinion against a law that would reform the Food Safety laws to the detriment of the Big Ag Industrialized food manufacturers.

Many videos appeared overnight, all seemingly from "Concerned" citizens.. Unfortunately, it was all bullshit and painted a good bill in a very bad light. Due to the swift appearance of the video in widespread dissemination, the propagandists were able to strike first and shape the opinion of thousands of people before they ever read the bill. But thats good enough for many stupid sheeple, who believe everything they see as Gospel.

As far as you last question, What is the purpose.. Frankly, you answered it yourself. If you do not see the error in this wrongheaded, failure prone tactic which has blown back on the US on many occasions, then I cannot help you. If you think interfering in a country, and installing another Shah is a good thing for the US to be doing, then there is nothing I can do for you, but laugh at you when some other country does it right back to us, or the regime turns into another Panama, or Iraq or Cuba or Georgia..

The military is itching to get the Oil.. The Military depends on Oil to function, so that would be a good reason to destabilize Iran and instigate regime change from within. The trouble is, the change isn't always a good thing...

[Why Syzygy]

4. "Muslim descent"?

People's religion is not visible.

If you mean, "Arabian" descent, I noticed in other videos that Iranians wear western garments, and many Iraqis wear native clothing.
I won't watch this particular one due to the graphic violence warning. What kind of clothing were they wearing?

[Grinchie]

6. You are correct

Thank you for pointing out my semantic error, but I believe you were able to see through the error.

Perhaps Persian descent would have been more appropriate.

I actually went to school with Kids from the rich families that came to America after the Shah was deposed, and they certainly were not Muslim looking as you so correctly point out. They did look Persian though.

As I recall, they didn't like to be called Arabs.

[bigscott]

14. i am 1/2 Persian

Actually an Assyrian who's ancestors come from (what was) Persia.

Most mistake me for italian.

Hard to always tell by looking

Peace

[Why Syzygy]

18. I stand corrected.

Thanks. I plead ignorance to the ethinic composition. Just know enough to know "Muslim" isn't one.

[HamdenRice]

9. There are lots of holes in this theory, but here's the biggest one

What would be the purpose of shaping western attitudes toward what's going on in Iran?

What you describe has happened in the past (although not on the scale you seem to think is possible), such as during the first Gulf War.

But the point was to whip up public sentiment to support going to war.

The Obama administration has absolutely no interest in going to war with Iran. Moreover, we don't have the resources, even if he had some interest.

So your conspiracy would be to whip up public sentiment just to get a lot of, well emotionally whipped up Americans? What would be the point?

Also it's not difficult to tell Middle Easterners apart by accent and language. Iranians don't even speak Arabic. If the people in these videos were speaking anything other than Farsi, Iranians would have pointed that out, even in the mainstream media -- as occurred when one of the Bush administration's biggest psyop (Abu Musab al Zarqawi) almost fell apart because CNN's Iraq expert kept complaining, in effect, wait a minute, that guy does not have a Jordanian accent.

[bertman]

12. Okay, Hamden, I'll try out one scenario: the rebellion is crushed brutally (we see the

pictures and video so we are convinced it is real) and the incumbent regime and its cronies maintain power. Flush with bravado and confidence they begin to do what Ahmadinejad does best--issue bellicose statements against Israel and the U.S. for interfering in sovereign Iranian affairs. They drag out "conspirators" who admit to working for Mossad or the CIA.

Meanwhile, the Iranians beef up their naval presence around our vessels in the Gulf and an incident or incidents ensue. Someone sinks an Iranian gunboat but the U.S. denies it did it. The Iranians retaliate by attacking U.S. vessels. A naval fiasco occurs.

Rumors begin to swirl that Iran really does have nuclear weapons. We Americans are fed more footage of the brutality of the regime in its putdown of the rebellious Iranians. We are told that Iran (Iraq 2003?) has the capability to nuke Israel or to nuke American naval vessels.

Tensions break out on the Iran-Iraq border. American troops are attacked by alleged Iranian Revolutionary Guard units.

We Americans are told we cannot allow Iran (Iraq 2003?) to continue on its aggressive path. We are shown photos and video of dead Americans and Iraqis. Public outrage in the U.S. is fanned by peaceniks like McCain and Graham and Liebermann. President Obama starts listening to the CIA and military types who advocate "taking care of a rogue Iran".

Suicide bombings in Israel escalate. Hezbollah (Iranian-backed) is blamed. Israel attacks Gaza again. Iran vows to defend Gaza.

Blah blah blah blah.

Hey, I came up with that in two minutes. Don't you think someone else with the connections and the money could pull this off again?? After all, we did it in 2003 in Iraq (Iran 2009?)

[twitomy]

23. Having an active imagination

is a bit different than actually pulling off what you are imagining.

[Rebubula]

13. If it helps...

...the same images are being shown in Arab media (just got back from Qatar) on Al Jazeera. In fact, the airwaves are full of even more images and videos.

Iran may have been classified as 'axis of evil' but it is well known that (for the most part) the urban areas are very progressive and modern. Internet cafes and cell phones have been running there for many years. Young people in Iran are the same as young people everywhere - they want modernity and access to freedoms.

Lastly, it is easy to tell of these are Iraqis or Iranians. Listen to the language. The people in this video (and the sad video of the young woman dying) are clearly speaking Farsi.

I understand a healthy dose of skepticism, but these images are being shown everywhere and are clearly from Iran.

[Grinchie]

25. Well, I'm going to keep out of the whole Cheerleading role.

Especially since the volume of this stuff ramped up so quickly.

Call me cynical, but nobody spotted the pickup truck parked nexrt to the Missile Launcher that Powell was convinced could deliver weapons of mass destruction to us in his presentation to the U.N.

If our Government can lie in front of the United Nations, then how difficult is it to cut 5 undersea cables at the same time on Jan 30th, 2008, and repair them with some extra features

Regardless of the current masthead leading the presidency, we all need to be skeptical of the Military Industrial complex that seems quite happy to continue the 20 year plan regardless of political party or the will of the people.

[tocqueville]

16. the extreme left has always sided with dictators

- it supported Stalin in the thirties and after
- in France as long as the Ribbentrop pact was valid, French communists didn't overtly criticized the Nazis, but "British and American imperialism"
- they blamed the revolts in Poland, Hungary, Tchekoslovakia as bourgeois coups and false flag operations
- they supported the Vietcong and the NVA
- they supported Pol Pot until the horrors were revealed
- they supported Mao's "Big Leap" and Cultural Revolution who resulted in the death of millions
- they supported Che Guevara who nothing else than a war criminal with good looks
- they opposed interventions against genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo
- they supported Saddam
- now they support or minimize the fascist nature of Irani Mullahs.

for this there are two pre-requirements :

1) the terror regime must be antiamerican, anti-west, preferably with some socialist overtone
2) the opposition is pro-western and not overtly "socialist".

Then can all horrors possible be permitted : they will be blamed on the West anyway that "instigated" them... The perpetrators will be excused by "circumstances" or by revisionist history writing.

Grinchie, you have chosen a fitting nick

[twitomy]

17. You nailed it.

And one reason I am only left of center; not extreme left. Extreme Left is just as bad as
extreme right...

[Grinchie]

26. If you call being skeptical "Supporting" then it sounds like you have Corporatitis

First of all, you throw around the word "Terror Regime" like you know first hand, which I find doubtful.

There are many countries that have been around for the last decade that can be called "Terror Regime" such as Darfur, but I don't see the world YouTubing those atrocities daily, nor have they come up with a catchy slogan such as green revolution, or promote their plight towards a median agegroup infatiuated with technology.

What's different about Darfur? Why is the west so ignorant of the atrocities over there?

The answer is most likely because of Oil, and if that is what drives out interests, then we are lost as a nation.

I support individual Sovereignity of countries. I don't think that America has the skills to meddle in other countries affairs. That's basically why we have the Al Qaeda problem, if it even exists outside some money making scheme.

I'm sorry if questioning the media that is served to us is the same as "Supporting" a terror regime, but that claim belongs on Free Republic. Don't forget "Freedom isn't Free" or "Love it or Leave It"

Good luck on trying to disavow the history of the United States... It's common knowledge, and most of it is written down, chronicled by film and videotape as well.

[Systematic Chaos]

28. I'm almost as far left as one can be, but I don't support (or would not have were I alive)...

...any of the criteria you list.

I'd rather have the facts and let them shape my decisions. Facts trump ideology every time in my book.

[Turborama]

24. Is this part of your "false flag" conspiracy theory too?

VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED

On a street in Tehran a young protester is shot in the head by Basij militia (seen in distance) before the cameraman heads closer to where the other protesters have dragged the man's body.

original video posted: http://bit.ly/shotinhead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQ0JoayTzk

Seriously, your disrespect for the protesters who have died campaigning for a better life is abhorrent and loathsome.

[Grinchie]

27. Sorry to disrespect your video, but I've chosen not to worry about Iran

I know it's loathsome, but for me, I've personally decided to let the Iranian people figure it out on their own. I don't need to see any more disturbing images of people in chaos. I will not change anything by viewing it, other than potentially harming my consciouness.

Instead, I am sitting back and watching the media crescendo rise, and then watch the opinions surge with every new detail.

I am in no position to judge the validity of these videos, but can only state that I am not convinced that the pictures we are being fed is reliable.

Abhorrent and loathsome are amazingly strong terms... Take a deep breath and allow me to be skeptical. Iran was the seat of civilization, and I think they are just as capable of correction, if not more so than American Society.