Jon Stewart explains the great shape of our economy...

[Joanne98]

Run time: 03:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nVg-axfh34   Posted on YouTube: July 17, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: July 18, 2009 By DU Member: Joanne98 Views on DU: 4553

 

[quark219]

1. Musings

Pardon me for what will, no doubt, be a rambling post. I say that because I am confused and I'm not sure what I think anymore.

My question: Considering what's going on with Goldman Sachs and Wall Street, why should I continue to support Obama? I voted for him, and I'm glad I did...I think. I don't think I could ever have voted for a Republican candidate, certainly not in the last 20 years. But considering that Obama appears to be content to do the work of Wall Street and enrich Goldman Sachs, while at the same time doing nothing to increase oversight and regulation of the financial industry, how can I support our current president? The economic stability of this country is paramount. Not to sound like a Freeper, but I think Obama and Geithner have done nothing but set us up for more abuses and another financial train wreck in the coming years. (As Stewart points out, the abuses are already occurring: You, me, and our children are now footing the bill for SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS of bonus "fun money" per Goldman Sachs employee.)

So what am I supposed to say about Obama now? What am I supposed to think? I don't know anymore. Am I just supposed to shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, at least he's smarter than Bush--and delivers good speeches"? Has all the enthusiasm of the Obama inauguration now petered out to, "Well, he's better than McCain would have been"?

I'm not trying to rattle any cages here. I'd say I'm less informed than most of you, but probably slightly more informed than the average American.

So tell me: Considering the Wall Street/Goldman Sachs fiasco and the looting of the American taxpayer, and Obama's unwillingness to show any backbone regarding the financial and insurance industries in terms of ACTION (as opposed to mild reprimands sprinkled in his speeches), what am I to think?

Thanks.

[rosesaylavee]

2. I'd say start reading.more...

As one of the recent contest for t-shirt slogans states: Freedom isn't free... you have to pay attention.

If you honestly think that Obama isn't doing well under the circumstances and you are looking around for someone better, this probably isn't the forum for you. Another suggestion I have for you... what are YOU personally doing to effect change or do you think that the Obama administration is there solely to fix everything you are personally concerned with?

[quark219]

3. You're not scoring any points...

I'm a progressive Democrat, and an ardent fan of Thomas Jefferson and liberal thinking who has read DU daily for seven years.

You're telling me that if I'm not 100% a fan of Obama, I should leave DU?

Are you that intolerant?

[AllentownJake]

5. Yes

They are.

[AllentownJake]

6. read my response below.

[rosesaylavee]

10. Having fun this afternoon are you?

You asked the question. As a progressive dem, just what do you do other than complain on this forum?

[AllentownJake]

11. Here is what I'm doing

Everytime anyone from OFA asks me to help with the President's agenda, I tell them he fires Giethner we'll talk until than give my regards to the dear leader.

[defendandprotect]

19. OBAMA has to get a divorce from the DLC/Emmanuel . . .

[quark219]

12. Not sure to what question you're referring...

... but I'll respond anyway.

This is a representative democracy. As a citizen, I keep abreast of current events (NYT, in particular), read (Thom Hartmann, in particular), and discuss the issues (on DU, occasionally). I do my best to cast an informed vote and I regularly e-mail my congressional representatives on issues I care about, such as health care and the regulation of the financial industry.

I find your question (which you've repeated twice) odd as it suggests that only political activists are allowed to express opinions on political matters.

[defendandprotect]

24. There is an obvious difference between "progressive democratic" ideals . ..

and Democratic Party ideals ...

Small "d" vs big "D" . . .

You have to decide which you are supporting --
and I think he's making that clear.

Though -- we all continue to hope, don't we!!

And, btw, seems like you have some complaint with complaints?

[defendandprotect]

17. Misplaced --

[AllentownJake]

4. Bull shit

President Obama took $1,000,000 from these fuckers that we know of. He brought in their boys to manage the economy. He was a big leader of getting the TARP enacted in the first place, well him and Rahmbo.

Where the hell do you think that half hour commercial the last week of the election came from with all the poor families. You honestly believe it all came from $25 donations.

He is either complicit in this or naive. I'm hoping the latter and he spent too much time talking in the faculty lounge to the University of Chicago Economics professors and is waking up that they are idiots.

What are you doing to enact change locally? How the hell does someone out of work when there are virtually no jobs enact change locally?

Soley fix everything...watching the damn banking industry is part of his fucking job.

[defendandprotect]

21. Change has to come from the top . .. yes, we can prompt, we can march . . .

NEW DEAL came from the roots but FDR went with it --

OTOH, Obama eloped with the DLC/Emmanuel --

[AllentownJake]

23. The marriage was there before campain

The DLC sold Wall Street that democrats would be better for them than the repigs because the repigs were causing all this nasty Anti-American sentiment.

[defendandprotect]

28. Agree, it is systemic in our campaign finance BRIBERY . . .

[quark219]

7. One more item...

... Almost forgot: What am ***I*** personally doing to EFFECT CHANGE? Well, I am going to march right into the Senate Finance Committee Meeting Monday morning and personally ask some tough questions of Tim Geithner and Ben Bernanke. Then I am going to pre-empt Obama's Weekly Address on July 25 to call for stricter oversight of the financial industry and a call-back of TARP funds for banks that are not lending.

Gosh, thank you for your ideas. So stupid of me to think that the Obama Administration should take the lead on financial reform when I can so obviously do it myself.

[AllentownJake]

8. You could have a "finance fair"

or knock on some doors to support the President's agenda even though you have some serious questions on the reform proposals.

:sarcasm:

[quark219]

9. Funny... or a bake sale :)

Seriously, I was looking for some enlightened discussion regarding my original post, and not the "You're-either-with-us-or-you're-against-us" mentality of the first responder.

In an effort to elicit some fact-based discussion (by which I hope to learn), here's my annotated report card for Obama's first six months. Respectful commentary welcomed.

SUBJECT --> GRADE ==> COMMENTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEMEANOR/POISE/INTELLECT --> A ==> Worlds above the former occupant of the WH. What a relief to have a president who is well-educated and rational!

COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF --> B- ==> Seems to be backpedaling on his commitment to get us out of Iraq; escalating war in Afghanistan; continuing the stop-loss program.

CIVIL LIBERTIES --> C ==> Despite sounding more enlightened, has not given up most fascist measures adopted by the Bush administration. As Naomi Wolf observed, Obama can still lock up any American indefinitely without cause. CIA detention centers and military tribunals continue to operate.

OPENNESS/TRANSPARENCY --> B ==> For his weekly YouTube addresses and his more conversational style in press conferences, Obama does well. But for refusing to release the Abu Ghraib photos (and thereby becoming complicit in the Bush coverup), he loses a full letter grade.

ECONOMY/BANKING & FINANCE --> D ==> For handing over this role to Goldman Sachs executives, and doing nothing to prevent further abuses down the road, and a repeat of this financial meltdown, Obama earns his worst grade. A weak stimulus bill (as opposed to the Republican-promoted spending freeze) prevents the grade from being an F.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall grade for first six months: C

I welcome respectful disagreement, particularly if you can provide information. Am I missing a category? Do you think a grade in a particular area should be higher or lower? Why or why not? Can you provide some policy or action related to your comment?

Thanks.

Scott

[defendandprotect]

22. Personally, I'm going to end the lock of MIC on our budget -- this weekend, in fact--!!!

[harmonicon]

13. sadly, I think you're right

"better than McCain" is what I voted for, and I knew it. Obama hasn't been any worse than I expected. He's a center-right politician, and he will govern that way. A few years from now I'll vote for him again, because keeping him on will be better than the alternative.

[quark219]

14. Thanks for your thoughts

Yes, I guess I'm in the same boat with you. I think I was not appreciating the fact that he's center-right, however, and so I'm a little more disappointed. I'm particularly upset by the extent to which he's allowed Goldman Sachs to manipulate our crisis to its own ends. That is stinging me now more than anything. If single-payer or even a public option don't make it, I'll be really saddened. Change, change, change! And this is the best we can do? Heaven help us.

Despite it all, like you, I'll probably be voting for Obama again in 2012. Only because the other side is that much worse.

[izquierdista]

20. What a choice, C or F!

But the 'A' politicians (Kucinich, for one) get the laugh track added to their proposals by the corporate shill media.

[quark219]

27. My respect for Kucinich just grows and grows.

Wish I could vote for HIM in 2012.

[harmonicon]

29. no kidding

It's people like DK and Howard Dean who make me identify, or at least vote, as a Democrat. It amazes me that these guys who would be considered centrists, or possibly center-left on some issues, in almost any civilized country are treated like they're leftwing crazies by most Americans.

[CrispyQ]

42. "...keeping him on will be better than the alternative."

I'm sick of the dems counting on that mentality from people like me. Our fear of the McCain/Palin types keeps us voting dem & yet we get little in return. Does the country have to be even more fucked up than it was after boosh, before someone will seriously challenge the status quo?

[harmonicon]

43. Who is that someone going to be? Who's going to cover it?

In the 2004 primaries I enthusiastically voted for Howard Dean and would have loved for him to become president. He was the first person who actually made me feel like there were Democrats who shared my views and wanted to work for me. The media 86-ed him once it became clear that he had a real chance of winning. In the past primary I guess I would have voted for Dennis Kucinich, had my shit state not fucked up their primary. Of course, even if I had voted for him, he wouldn't have stood a chance, because he's treated like a joke by those in power.

There are millions of people challenging the status quo, but the point is that none of them will ever be allowed to run for high public office.

[defendandprotect]

15. Well you may be on the verge of hitting into ....

a DU taboo discussion . . .

Of course those of us who are unhappy with Obama's policies -- cutting $313 BILLION

from Medicare/Medicaid, for example -- wouldn't vote for a Repug ...

However, while there are other options they are NOT BY ANY MEANS TO BE DISCUSSED ON DU!!!



Sometime before the last election, Randi Rhodes, in fact -- prior to her total topping

from Air America -- stressed to listeners that AFTER we won the election and got some

very important things straightened out, that we would have to begin to strengthen those

options we cannot name here -- and begin to shake up the Democrats and their love affair

with corporations by actually moving to activate those options--!!!


As I said . . . that was just before Randi was topplied -- and it's a taboo subject here
at DU.


Good luck from another poster who has long thought what you're thinking~!

Nonetheless, continuing to try to move Obama to the left -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

16. Also see Wm. Greider's recent articles on what you are thinking ---

[quark219]

41. I watched Greider on Bill Moyer's Journal, and liked what I saw

Can you recommend any specific articles of his to read? (And provide a link, maybe?)

Thanks!

Scott

[defendandprotect]

18. They're the "UNs" . . .

of intolerance -- notice the desire to CONTROL not only your thinking but your presence here!!!

:)

[Yavin4]

31. The Predatory Capitalist System That Runs America Is Bigger Than Obama

You are making the mistake that several progressives make, and that is they believe that Obama is Hugo Chavez. They believe that he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants, but that's not the case. Obama shares the power of government with congress, and he has to work with them to do everything.

Congress is bought and paid for by the predatory capitalists like Goldman Sachs. Thus, what Obama can and cannot do is severely limited.

What you, and all progressives, need to think about is that our true enemy is not the Republicans nor Fox News nor Bill O'Reilly nor Glen Beck. They're nothing but a distraction. Our true enemy is the predatory capitalist class, Wall Street banks, the Insurance Industry, big Pharma, Credit Card issuers, etc.

We need to target our venom at them, not Obama.

[quark219]

32. Good response

I agree with most of what you've said. Where I think we differ is that you seem to be of the opinion that Obama, in his heart of hearts, is thinking, "Gee, if only I wasn't hamstrung by Congress and could be a real progressive!" I am of the opinion that Obama himself has been compromised, more or less, by the predatory capitalists: More by Wall Street (he willingly handed over the management of the financial crisis to a cadre of Goldman Sachs executives), less by the insurance industry.

[Yavin4]

36. Obama Is Surrounded By Clinton's People And They're Terrified of 1994

When they lost control of congress in '94, all hell broke loose for them in the years that followed, investigation into Whitewater, Paula Jones, Lewinsky, and impeachment.

They're scared to death of losing control of the Congress again.

[defendandprotect]

38. True . . . capitalism is a system of class warfare -- and how America failed to grasp

that reality seems a trick of FDR's having regulated it to save it --

while our schools and culture pretty much taught us that capitalism and

democracy are synonymous --

Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the

wealth and resources of every nation from the many to the few --

and it succeeds without question.

At this point, we are begging for simply re-regulation of Capitalis and

I don't think I hear even a echo of that coming from Congress or Obama?

[peacetalksforall]

35. There are 'total faith in Obama' DUers and 'observing closely' DUers. The statements and

actions I approve of are coming from Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold at the head of the pack of politicians whose ideals I can trust. There are groupings of them that follow. These are the people that I think of as Democrats. The DLCers are not Democrats.

I went into the campaign having doubts about him and went with the tide. Though I soared at the idea that so many people wanted him and I desired and thrilled at the breakthrough of race combined with the honor and pleasure of observing and listening to a person with smarts and a head for the psychology and spirit of leading, I had my doubts about allegiances.

It broke my heart when he picked Emanuel. I sunk to the ground watching him with the war and wall street. I know that the military and wall street are like levees and the waters that flow and pummel through them - all propped up with a mighty elemental force and momentum that can't be changed easily. But, I am on the fence. I also believe I'm seeing results of behind the scenes negotiations played out from way before the election. It makes me heartsick.

I have convinced myself that the people of the United States are at war with leaders and people of power in the United States. Our real war is with our own who dismiss us, have set out to own us, rule us, manipulate us, scare us, control us, demean us, laugh at us, jail us, pretend to mollify us. The evidence FILLS the screens of DU every hour of every day. Credit card banks doing their thing, the wall street gifts, the lies and outright thefts. The military who seems determined to kill, torture, and do their thing with their toys and soldiers. Then we have the Tongass give away and a hundred issues we can name - especially the number one and most pressing of our needs - insurance, health access, and government agencies that are bad for us - like the FDA. The list doesn't end and with some of these - Obama is their partner.

All our attention is foolishly wasted talking about Lou Dobbs, Joe S, Matthews, Limbaugh, Murdoch, BFEE, those who assassinated our former leaders (with two exception, see below*). The attention should be on our own. This is our time. If we don't make our voices heard about what is needed to straighten out the country right now - we're going to lose it.

How sad that you write about your doubts and you get accused.

* The exception to those who waste their time on Dobbs, etc. deserve to watch and comment. Some are good analysts and pick up on clues of change that they share with us. Then there are those who are just waking up to corporation tv, newspapers, and radio. They SHOULD watch and track who is who and figure out how they do it, the moves they make, the decibels of outrage, the lying twists of truth. They should keep on being astounded and report on it - until they see how predictable and narrow the messages of the corporations are. They have a specific target - to put themselves in control of all the earth resources and make you, make me submissive and happy and content with their rule. To bring us down to a second world country - making enough to buy their products, but without complaints about what pollution they caused, or slavery they set up, or laws they broke, or profits they banked outside our borders - they want it all without our complaining of going to the streets = whether it's bout jobs they stole and exported and their decimation of unions and takeover of everything green and how they don't give a crap about our children and the children to come. It's all about short term gain and their control of us.

[TommyPaine]

25. And now it's time for Goldman-Sachs to help bail everyone else out.

I know they can be counted on to do the right thing and pump those bonuses back into the U.S. economy, maybe pay down the debt a bit, put some money into jobs programs that help the environment. Bless all those unselfish hearts at Goldman-Sachs.

[Hydra]

26. Jon is great as usual

Somehow he makes the most traitorous and obscene actions of our Gov't funny to watch and mock. That's talent, there! :evilgrin:

[peacetalksforall]

37. Brilliant approach and brilliant graphics. Delivered with perfection.

[Wednesdays]

30. K&R

:kick:

[HughBeaumont]

33. Yep, there's the great "free market" . . . from free marketeers - summed up in one succinct graphic:

"Things CAN be built . .. from the top down. And they WILL be built . . . from the top down. You stupid COMMIES!!"

Yeah. Except when things CANNOT be built . . . from the top DOWN. No matter how hard or how many different combinations you try . . . the fact remains:

NOTHING IS BUILT FROM THE TOP DOWN!!!

It's theoretically, gravitationally, physically and logically IMPOSSIBLE, no matter how many dead Reagans, half-dead Bewshs, incorrectly-believing Clintons, brain-damaged sons of Bewshes or hands-tied Obamas try it.

The wage PAYER'S needs are secondary to the wage EARNER'S needs. Kill your wage earner's foundation and all you have are the sole group of wage payers sitting on a lot of money and no way to create jobs because there's no demand because no one is spending because no one is certain they won't be next. Demand economies have to flourish in order for the nation to survive. Supply side proves ass-backwards in theory and in practice.

Child, there just AIN'T no other way.

[Hydra]

39. You're assuming they actually want to fix the problem they created

When they talk about "Jobless Recoveries," or how the market is turning around because Goldman and JP are making record profits by scamming us, you can't assume their strategy actually involves helping us.

[theFrankFactor]

34. ONE OF THE BEST THREAD ON DU... EVER!

I like you guys!

The honeymoon turned in to date rape. We're gettin' fucked!

[progressoid]

40. That was an excellent bit.

Surprised Viacom hasn't pulled the video yet.