CNN: Canada's Former Minister of Health Reacts to Lies About System ('Absolute Nonsense')

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 08:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOX82-E3ZZw   Posted on YouTube: July 20, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: July 21, 2009 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 3968

 
CNN - 20 July 2009: Rick Sanchez Interviews Canada's Fmr Minister Of Health Ujjal Dosanjh About Lies About Their Healthcare System - Debunks Republican Senator Mitch McConnell Claims.

RICK SANCHEZ: And then there's more. Mitch McConnell, for example. He's says that our health care system, in its present form, is already the very best in the world. And to those who say the Canadian system may be better, he said this on 'Meet The Press' yesterday morning.

SEN. McCONNELL (VIDEO): I had a friend of mine in Florida who called up recently who said he just lost a friend of his in Canada because the government decided he was too old for a certain kind of procedure, and apparently he didn't have the money or ability to get down to the United States for quality health care.

SANCHEZ: So what is the truth? As Americans, were hearing everything from 'our system is the best' to 'our system is in complete disarray.' As for the Canadian plan, we hear 'it's an absolute panacea - perfect - everybody gets treated anytime that they want' to 'nobody gets treated unless they're willing to wait for months or years to get that treatment.'

So here's what we want to do for you. Let's try to make some common sense out of this. Let's trying to get to the truth. Joining us now is Ujjal Dosnajh. He's a member of the Canadian parliament and former minister of health there. Sen. McConnell - let's start with him. He says Canadians don't treat old people for certain procedures. That's a heck of thing for a senator to say. Is it true?

UJJAL DOSNAJH: Absolutely untrue. Decision as to whether or not certain procedures ought to be carried out for a particular patient, those decisions are made by doctors in the hospitals, and doctors don't make those decisions based on money or no money unlike the United States of America where ...

SANCHEZ (interrupting): So it's absolutely not true that age is ever taken into account?

DOSNAJH: Abso... Well, age and condition may be taken into account with respect to a particular procedure.

SANCHEZ: (interrupting): Well, I'm not, I, listen, I get condition. There are times when a person is so frail that operating on them or giving them a certain treatment might make them worse. You have to weigh things. But that's not what he's saying. We're talking about age.

DOSNAJH: Age alone. Absolute nonsense.

SANCHEZ: O.K. Here's another one: Critics say that in Canada you have to wait forever to see a doctor or schedule surgery, and there is person after person who has said that they know someone there who will share that anecdote with them. Is that true? Is it true in part? Is it true at all?

DOSNAJH: It is untrue substantially. The fact is that 9 out of 10 Canadians have permanent doctors that they go to and the fact is that if you are in a queue waiting for surgery, if you have a heart attack you'll get to the front of the line, if you have a broken leg you may have to wait a day or two. I think those decisions are made all the time at hospitals by specialists and by doctors and those decisions are made based not on money that somebody can pay or not pay, because ultimately the government is the insurer.

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[JimWis]

1. McConnell doesn't even put a spin on what he says about

health care reform. He just plain lies. I watched him on the floor of the Senate today. He just lies through his teeth. Thanks for posting this video.

[Hissyspit]

4. The story he is telling is clearly either an out-and-out lie or has been completely mangled

in the repeated retelling.

[bobbolink]

7. Mario Solis Marich tore McConnell apart today on his Air America show!

http://gotomario.com/

He took McConnell's example of M.D. Anderson Cancer Center as a shining example of "free market", and ran down all the GOVERNMENT backing it gets! He had all the figures, and showed that it has NOTHING to do with free market anything... and as a matter of fact, it's a GREAT institution precisely BECAUSE it is government funded!

It was a brilliant take down. I hope you can get it on the pod cast.

Just brilliant.

The problem is, he is mostly preaching to the choir. He did great research, but it needs a bigger and better audience!

[unapatriciated]

2. K&R

[indimuse]

3. K+R

thx!

[doc03]

5. You may have to wait a day or

two if you have a broken leg! I would find it extremely hard to believe if anyone in the USA ever waited a day or two for that.

[Hissyspit]

6. He's probably talking about appointments and not emergency room treatment.

[doc03]

8. Someone makes an appointment for a broken leg,

I don't think so! That's some tough customer (maybe Rambo).

[Hissyspit]

10. Follow-up.

I don't know what he means exactly. It is the typical cable news network rushed conversation. I doubt very much that he meant that if you go to an emergency room, no one will set your leg. He means if you have a heart attack case and a broken leg case, you do the CPR and then set the leg.

[doc03]

11. He said if you are having a heart attack you will go

to the front of the line, if you have a broken leg you may have to wait a day or two. If say it would be elective surgery such as a knee replacement it sounds reasonable. But a broken leg, maybe he just gave a bad example. It seems like everyone but me has a friend in Canada that told them some horror story, I don't know who is telling the truth. I suppose it's somewhere in the middle both sides always exaggerate to support their own agenda.

[ihavenobias]

13. Don't judge truth based on anecdotes on either side.

Instead check out this link that was posted on Canadian Healthcare via the Denver Post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6106185

[Puzzler]

22. If you have a broken leg...

... you'd be seen to immediately. I was. He was just comparing that to a heart attack.


Honestly folks, the doctors and hospitals up here look and function pretty much as in the USA... except the billing department is 1000 times simpler, and it's orders of magnitude cheaper.

[bobbolink]

9. Maybe that's because you haven't been poor in the US???

[doc03]

12. I have heard of such cases in veterans hospitals. My dad

had to wait a month for an implantable defibrillator in a veterans hospital.

[slipslidingaway]

14. knr - We also need to remember that the per capita spending

on health care in Canada is about half of the US spending and the UK spends about 1/3 of what the US spends.

I hate to see this bill being rushed through without exploring different options.

[FatDave]

15. Make sure to go to youtube and rate the video 5 stars.

Assuming you think it's deserving, of course.

[Creationismsucks]

16. He's not quite telling the whole truth here, I fear...

I know I'm far from being the only Canadian on this board, but I feel I have to speak up here about my experience. In my experience, there is actually a profound shortage of GPs and Family doctors in Canada. I've lived in four provinces and while you can always get medical help (at what are called "walk-in clinics"), getting your own doc, who you see for years and who knows your case in great detail can be very, very difficult.

I asked my dentist if she knew of a GP who was taking patients; even she didn't have one.

Don't get me wrong: my experience is so far that on the whole, I prefer the Canadian system (and yes, I have been in US hospitals), but when Dosanj says that we don't have a doctor shortage here, I think he's being less than forthcoming.

I really hope that the current debate in America works out for the best for Americans, and those insurance companies sound like a loathsome bunch of bastards, to be sure, but I couldn't refrain from commenting here. Our system has a lot of great points, but it's got some serious problems, too.

I look forward to being roundly refuted and criticized by fellow cannucks on the board. No problem. I actually hope I'm wrong about this.

Good luck America!

[Hissyspit]

17. He didn't say that Canada doesn't have a doctor shortage.

He said there are doctor shortages all around the world, and that's true.

[Spazito]

18. He didn't say there isn't a shortage, what he did say is...

was the doctors tend to want to practice in the larger urban centre so the rural areas are more likely to have a shortage if there is one. He also said quite clearly there is a world-wide shortage of doctors.

In larger urban cities that have experienced very rapid and large growth, ie Calgary in recent years, it can be more difficult to find a family doctor when one first moves there but, as stated by you and Ujjal Dosanjh, there are walk-in clinics that will serve one's needs until you find a family doctor.

I, too, have lived in four different provinces and I have to say I have not had that difficulty. One thing I did do, though, is, before moving, asked my doctor to recommend someone in the city I was moving to which may have helped.

[Creationismsucks]

19. What can I say? We've had different experiences.

Your docs set you up with other docs in other cities? I'm extremely surprised (and happy to hear it by the way). I know one family practitioner (an old friend) in Toronto who goes on to me at great length about the shortages of his peers, even in urban centers.


When I lived in ottawa about 5 years ago, and desparately needed a personal doc, the closest I could get was a guy who would add me to his patient list for an appointment 4 months later. When I asked doctors at walk-in clinics if they knew of GPs or family physicians who were taking patients, they invariably looked at me like I was crazy, and asking for lemonade during a draught. When I called the college of physicians and surgeons to ask if they knew who was taking patients, there was NOBODY on their list.

Now I live in Montreal and the situation's not much different. Any chance you can ask your personal physician to recommend me a GP in Montreal who's taking patients?

Just about everyone I know makes this same complaint. Incidentally, prior to Ottawa I was living in Vancouver and I couldn't get a doctor there either.

Having said all that though, let me just stress that I've ALWAYS gotten the care I needed out of the system, and paid next to nothing for it. This one thing about doctor shortgaes notwithstanding, I have no complaints about the Canadian healthcare system. The walk-in clinic system really does seem to handle most of what comes up very well.

[Canuckistanian]

25. You seem to have had a string of bad luck

I've never had problems finding a GP and I've lived in Toronto, Winnipeg and now in a rural town near Ottawa.

Yes, there certainly are shortages, but it's not IMPOSSIBLE to find a GP. And I'm astounded that you can't find one in a major city like Montréal.

A quick Google search turned up this 2006 article from the Gazette saying that 29% of Quebecers can't find a GP. That's over twice the national average of 17%.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=f7f55af7-455f-44f2-ac8a-17236a7773dc

Yes, it's hard to find a GP, but not impossible.

[qwertyMike]

31. I live in Nova Scotia

My doc moved away (she got married) and I had a new one the next day. No problem. In fact I had a choice. You just have to be resourceful and ask around.

[troubledamerican]

20. Thank CHRIST we have Harry Reid to stand up and speak out the truth.

[Clintonista2]

26. ...

:spray:

[Puzzler]

21. Two points:

1) FYI Ujjal Dosanjh was also the Premier of British Columbia a few years ago.

2) Even if McConnell's story is in some way true, it is important to remember that only the doctors would have been making the decision. There is no deferring to the government, or any government health insurance "agent" (if there was one, and there's not). He probably could have found another Canadian doctor to do it if he tried... just like in the States. The doctor's decision has nothing to do with the Canadian system. It was just a doctor's decision.

[Puzzler]

23. Lest anyone think Canadian doctors don't get paid much...

... the average salary for a Canadian doctor is $202,000. Some obviously make less, and others make lots more. By any standard, Canadian doctors are not just scraping by. Also, the malpractice insurance is far far less than in the US.

[Hissyspit]

24. Thank you for that information, Puzzler. It is appreciated.

[Pool Hall Ace]

27. Well, this American likes what she hears

from Ujjal Dosanjh (the CNN jerk is annoying). I don't expect any nation's healthcare system to be perfect.

And Canadian physicians still make a decent salary.

[Spazito]

28. This may be a little off-topic but it may give some insight into...

Minister Dosanjh as a person. He is a man of strength and character.

In 1985 then Mr. Dosanjh was viciously attacked by Sikh extremists, beaten with a lead pipe, for speaking out against Sikh extremists who used violence in their fight for independence in the Punjab. Rather than silencing him as they had hoped, Mr. Dosanjh continued to speak out very forcefully and "wrote to then-prime minister Brian Mulroney that April -- two months before the Air India bombing -- warning that something dire might happen if the government did not deal with the extremist threat. He got no reply."

He is one of the few politicians I still in which I still hold great respect.

Here is an article entitled: Former B.C. premier haunted by memories of 1985 beating

OTTAWA -- Every time Vancouver South MP Ujjal Dosanjh hears footsteps behind him, he looks over his shoulder.


http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=6746eb63-3769-4926-a3fd-8c49b60c6ebe

[EnviroBat]

29. I have great "American Private Healthcare" that I am enrolled in.

I work for the state, and my health-care is some of the best a person can get.

I've been walking around with a fractured shoulder for 8 weeks. Not because my private practice primary care physician didn't want me to have an MRI at the time of my accident, but because my wonderful, private-sector insurance company refused to pay for one. My doctor wanted nothing more than to send me for a proper diagnosis, but due to constraints created by the insurance company, I was forced to wait 3 weeks until it could be shown that Cortisone treatments were not treating the problem. I told my doctor at the time that I felt like it was fractured. He told me he agreed, but couldn't write the referral for the MRI.

I'm having surgery to repair torn cartilage, and staple the fractured bone fragment back in place on the 30th. I've been in stabbing pain for two months now thanks to our "wonderful health-care system". The next time some republican asshole tries to bash publicly-funded HC, and the Obama Administration, I think I may just fracture their jaw. Maybe they can experience the terrific HC system for themselves.

[applegrove]

30. The former Ministre of Health has to react because our current one is a neocon

and they like the idea of deregulation.

[mzmolly]

32. "Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours"

:kick:

[Bennyboy]

33. Video has been removed...

Anyone get it?