Gates: It's about rights, not race

[seraphicx]

Run time: 03:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6VA73-4EJ4   Posted on YouTube: July 25, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: July 25, 2009 By DU Member: seraphicx Views on DU: 1955

 
Gil Smart with his take on the Henry Louis Gates arrest controversy. Isn't it really about someone's rights, more than it is about race?

[SkyDaddy7]

1. EXACTLY!!!

I am amazed so many folks here on DU think Gates did not have a "RIGHT" to say anything he wanted to those cops short of physical threats...This is not Iran its America!

People need to read the constitution or simply quit sucking up to cops...If cops acted like Professional Police Officers this problem would have never happened! A true Professional Police Officer would have apologized to the pissed off Gates and left ONCE THEY KNEW IT WAS HIS HOUSE...But instead the "cops" stayed for a fight because someone's pride was hurt.

[midnight]

3. Yep. It is absolutely incredible how we give away our rights.

And if someone doesn't well then.....they deserve to be arrested? Use the constitution folks or lose it.

[defendandprotect]

21. Agree --

in fact -- and I got this from listening to Ron Reagan's show the other night as

he read from Crowley's actual police report -- AFTER Gates showed him his Harvard ID

and his license -- the copy called HARVARD POLICE to come.

I didn't hear the whole show -- and that's my understanding of what I heard of it.

So -- long, long before the arrest -- the officer knew that this was Gates' residence

and that he was a Professor at Harvard.

[SkyDaddy7]

29. Correct!

Cops these days like to make encounters with people "personal" instead of "professional"...Cops know they can arrest anyone at anytime and charge "disorderly conduct" just to show whoever it may be that they have that power and you had better not question it. I had a very similar incident with some cops at my house and soon as I spoke up that I had rights the cop in charge told me to "shut the fuck up, he did not want to hear about my rights!" Of course, I went to jail that night and the charges were eventually dropped. And the cops do it just so they feel they have the last word or simply because they are power trppin egomaniacs! This has to change but without Judges cracking down on cops doing this crap it will not happen. And since folks do not vote Judges out who ignore police abuses the problem continues to grow. In defense of the voters many politicians will not even bring up these problems out of fear of being "soft on crime" or "anti-police" which is usually a death sentence in local politics.

I know there are "Professional Police Officers" who do defuse situations and solve misunderstandings...However, the number of "cops" who purposely escalate situations to make arrest to simply show they have power or to boost their own arrest record far out number "Professional Police Officers".

Almost every local police agency where I live have been busted multiple times with arrest incentives in their operating policies. More arrest/tickets written equal more days off, better equipment, and cars...This has to stop! Again, Judges can stop this if they wanted to. The idea that stopping these types of incentives would destroy motivations and moral is BULLSHIT!

[enough]

2. This man frames the issue correctly. Well done. (nt)

[bsd13]

4. Every right to speak his mind

But not cause a public disturbance, or put the cop in danger with his comments or actions. A crowd began to gather and that put Crowley and others, including Mr. Gates, at risk. I'm all for freedom of speech, but it's not a blanket right that pushes personal responsibility aside.

[eleny]

5. If a crowd began to gather that frightened Crowley, he should have called for back up

You are utterly full of it and so is Crowley.

[bsd13]

6. There were already other cops there

From both Cambridge and Harvard campus police. No need for more back up. He arrested the instigator before it got out of hand. Simple as that.

[eleny]

7. That fact that the charges were dropped tells me that Crowley was wrong. Simple as that.

His thin skin has made him a laughing stock. Something he asked for, deserves and got.

[Fearless]

14. Charges are always dropped unless there's reason not to...

For example prior charges or violence. The arrest is made to deescalate a situation. In general, a ranting man could pull a gun, someone could get hurt. Of course, no one is to know what person will do such things so all are treated the same.

All of your statements thus far can be easily and thoroughly debunked by anyone who has even rudimentary understanding of MA state law.

[DWilliamsamh]

8. How exactly does one "instigate" verbally in one's own home?

And yeah- we KNOW that charge was bullshit. If it wasn't, if there was one shred of legality to it, it would have been held if for no other reason than as a CYA for the Cambridge Department.

[Fearless]

13. Pursuing an argument with an officer is just that. Read the law for your "legality".

Unless you can cite otherwise, your OPINION on the legality is baseless.

[DWilliamsamh]

25. Ok... turn it around....

In one's own home why and under what circumstances is one not allowed to "argue" with an officer?

He was there to investigate a possible break in. It wasn't a break in. The man had TWO forms of ID, and the officer called it in to verify it. That is the point at which it should have ended, and no amount of "see I told you I belonged here you fucking fat bastard asshole," inside his own house justifies being arrested for "disorderly conduct." One can't be disorderly (which is generally defined as engaging in conduct that would alarm the public) in one's own house. Period.

And again, the very fact that the charge was dropped almost immediately tells me I am right and you are wrong.

[Fearless]

26. Go back and read the facts again. You're making stuff up or not listening or both.

[DWilliamsamh]

27. Enlighten me....

What did I miss? The police were called by a neighbor who thought two men were breaking into a house. The police come and an unidentified man is inside the house. The police (quite rightly) enter the house and demand identification. Verbal sparring ensues and after a period of refusal to produce ID (at that point the police would have been VERY justified in arresting the person in front of them), two forms of ID are produced identifying the man in the house as Henry Louis Gates, the home owner. A call is made to another police agency, yielding a verification of the ID and ownership of the house.

Under the WORST report at this point Dr. Gates was verbally abusive to the police in HIS home. He called them names. He MAYBE followed them onto the porch of HIS house and continued to call them names. They arrested him for that affront. And a few hours later the charges were dropped.

What did I miss?

There is NOTHING in the facts that justifies arresting him. He could not be "disorderly" in is own home, on his own property. The police should have walked the fuck away at the point of knowing who he was, the home owner.

[Fearless]

28. Go read my other posts. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is closed.

I've moved back to health care.

[DWilliamsamh]

30. Thank you, no.

If you don't have the courtesy to actually discuss it with me here then I will not go research your opinion. You are being just rude, and not supporting your assertions.

[Fearless]

31. If you say so.

[defendandprotect]

23. Gates made the mistake of stepping out onto the porch . . .

and into public space. And that was the opoortunity they were waiting for.

[Fearless]

12. There were four cops. There are photos... n/t

[FlaGranny]

15. A crowd began to gather

INSIDE Mr. Gates home? How did that happen? Or was it outside? Sorry, not been following this very closely.

[notadmblnd]

16. remember that statement if they ever come to your door.

kow tow and kiss ass. Then cry about the Dems taking the rights you'd have some one else give up so freely, away.

[Butch350]

17. I agree with you.

[defendandprotect]

22. Long before any of that . . . Crowley knew that Gates was a Harvard Prof. .. .

and that it was his residence --

And, the idea that our police officers are that fragile, either mentally or physically,

should be erroneous.

[fishwax]

9. Bullshit. The one does not negate the other

I agree with him about the importance of fundamental rights here, but the fact that this story would still have been outrageous if a white person were arrested on similarly specious grounds doesn't negate the fact that this didn't happen to a white person, it happened to a person of color. I can't buy into Smart's casual willingness to undermine the racial implications here, nor can I endorse his ready acceptance of the supposition that Gates "freaked out" and was "verbally abusive" prior to his arrest.

[ro1942]

10. most people believe police

lets not forget troy davis, leonard peltier and the f.b.i. agent going the wrong way on i 95 in s. fl. that killed two kids was found not guilty

[Fearless]

11. And no right was impeded.

While in hot-pursuit, an officer has the authority to enter a house without asking. This is because there could be an actual break in and people could be in danger inside.

He left the house after finding there was no burglary. Was followed and verbally abused. Under MA law, which I've previously cited and will again if I must, this is grounds for arrest. There were four officers there. One was black. Two reports were filed of the event, one by Sgt. Crowley and one by officer Figueroa. Both are clear on what happened and both fit together.

The charges were dropped because the charges are always dropped in cases of disorderly conduct, when the person is not deemed a threat, particularly based on whether they have priors or assaulted someone in the meantime.

The fact is that race had nothing to do about it as Gates now says. But rights were not impeded either. Everything that happened was legal. It may not be well received or even liked, it may cause people to scream racism, but even Gates himself now negates that claim, and the claim that the officer wouldn't ID himself.

It was a simple misunderstanding and hopefully after their beer in the White House we can focus our attention back on real issues like actual race discrimination, law breaking (re: Yoo and the rest of Bush Co.), oh and the whole purpose of the press conference... health care.


Cheers,
Fearless
:kick:

[Butch350]

18. Well, the next time any of you are in trouble...

call a hippy, or a constitutional lawyer to bail you out of it.

[missingthebigdog]

19. The Supreme Court would likely come down on Mr. Gates' side here

I had the unfortunate opportunity to research this issue several years ago when I was ticketed for disorderly conduct due to a heated discussion I had with an officer responding to an excessive noise call at my home on a Saturday afternoon (my son's band was practicing; I guess the neighbors weren't impressed). I was acquitted, by the way.

In Houston V. Hill, our Supreme Court held that Houston's ordinance was overly broad and violated our First Amendment Right to Free Speech. An excerpt:

Second, contrary to the city's contention, the First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers. "Speech is often provocative and challenging. . . . is nevertheless protected against censorship or punishment, unless shown likely to produce a clear and present danger of a serious substantive evil that rises far above public inconvenience, annoyance, or unrest." Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1, 4 (1949).

In Lewis v. City of New Orleans, 415 U.S. 130 (1974), for example, the appellant was found to have yelled obscenities and threats at an officer who had asked appellant's husband to produce his driver's license. Appellant was convicted under a municipal ordinance that made it a crime "'for any person wantonly to curse or revile or to use obscene or opprobrious language toward or with reference to any member of the city police while in the actual performance of his duty.'" Id., at 132 (citation omitted). We vacated the conviction and invalidated the ordinance as facially overbroad. Critical to our decision was the fact that the ordinance "punishe only spoken words" and was not limited in scope to fighting words that "'by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.'" Id., at 133, quoting Gooding v. Wilson, 405 U.S. 518, 525 (1972); see also ibid. (Georgia breach-of-peace statute not limited to fighting words held facially invalid).

Moreover, in a concurring opinion in Lewis, JUSTICE POWELL suggested that even the "fighting words" exception recognized in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942), might require a narrower application in cases involving words addressed to a police officer, because "a properly trained officer may reasonably be expected to 'exercise a higher degree of restraint' than the average citizen, and thus be less likely to respond belligerently to 'fighting words.'" 415 U.S., at 135 (citation omitted).

Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451, 462 (U.S. 1987)

Perhaps Mr. Gates should have been more polite, but the Officer should have behaved more professionally. I realize that law enforcement is a stressful career, but that makes it even moe essential that only even-tempered, reasonable persons have such careers. We have too many loose cannons with badges and guns, arresting people who dare to disagree with them.

[defendandprotect]

20. RACISM is one of the ways that your "Rights" are taken from you . . .

More and more often, we should be replacing our notions of racism, sexist, anti-semitism,
homphobia with the reality that they are simply EXPLOITATION.

These are exploitations created by patriarchy/patrarichal religions for their own benefit.

And they are based on MYTHS of "inferiority" in others --

whether by color, gender, creed, sexual orientation -- they are myths intended to

deprive "others" of their human rights. That is, those other than elite white males.

[cleveramerican]

24. After giving his ID to the cop

He should not have followed the cop outside
He should have stayed in the house
Let the Sgt. bring his ID back to him sitting in chair in his house.