Kucinich Responds To Obama's Address To Congress

[slipslidingaway]

Run time: 04:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if5fgI-w-CY   Posted on YouTube: September 10, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 10, 2009 By DU Member: slipslidingaway Views on DU: 13881

 
'Private insurance companies will get at least 30 million new customers...'

[ShortnFiery]

1. Dennis Kucinich is spot on!

Dennis Kucinich :patriot:

[slipslidingaway]

2. Yes :) n/t

[flvegan]

4. As usual.

[lovepg]

7. God sometimes I think this guy is the only guy in congress who gets it..

health insurance is just another unsustainable bubble that will collapse eventually.
Another to big to fail bail out for the same asshats who kill your friends and relatives to increase their profits.

[create.peace]

14. K & R 4 U nt

[Larry Ogg]

38. He gets it alright;

although the conventional paradigm requires that he doesn’t ruffle to many feathers; but you can see the candor in his frustration and know what he was thinking; i.e. the plan Obama wants is going to be the “Let’s put lipstick on a pig health care Plan...” and call it bipartisan reform.

[kmac3]

71. K & R . . Keep this active . . .

Beautifully stated Larry . . . I honestly feel no reform bill now is better than kow-towing to the Repubs which results in enabling insurance companies to continue to profit which results in paying BIG MONEY to these political misfits.

[Larry Ogg]

105. Thank you kmac

I believe that if Obama or anyone else was truly a progressive liberal with some sense of understanding how conservative minds and the minds of their predator leaders worked; there would be no way in hell that you would compromise with them; because compromising with sociopaths who create boogie men so as their paranoid delusional followers will have something their sociopath leaders can protect them from is a proven recipe for disaster. But the questions remains; is he compromising or is he just going along with the plan?

[Libertas1776]

3. K & R!

Kucinich, the only man who speaks the truth.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Certainly one of the few! n/t

[trthnd4jstc]

5. Rep. Kucinech, "I think that a bill that gives subsidies to insurance and pharmaceutical industry is

a problem."

[slipslidingaway]

9. A big problem n/t

[lib_wit_it]

74. Yeah, because the president sure did make it clear he waan't going to subsidize any public option!

God forbid!

[bluestateguy]

6. He didn't give a yes or no answer at the end

St. Dennis the Perfect is a lot more like a run of the mill politician than some of you care to admit.

[lovepg]

10. Its not about him being perfect its about him being right! nt

[ProSense]

83. No it's about

grandstanding

[slipslidingaway]

11. As he said he does not know what the final bill will be, as far as run

of the mill politicians they are the people who always move with the herd...and then apologize later for their behavior.

:o

[Grinchie]

12. As usual, Mr. Kucinich peels back the layers and exposes the heart of the matter

All I can say is, Kucinich for President in 2012.

Obama is a flagrant sellout, and he will get no support from me or my circle of friends, family or colleagus.
I'm pretty sure that this speech laid bare the depth of deception the campaign of "Change we can Believe In" was based upon.

One good thing has come of this, and it has exposed the single party Corporate America that actually runs the show.

They are so arrogant to believe that Americans will buy the trollop of no Universal Health Care. They can go fuck themselves.

[gorfle]

115. I have to say...

I'm going to vote Democratic in 2012 no matter who runs, but I like the way Kucinich talks.

[mudstump]

13. Wouldn't you like to.....

call Dennis...Mr. President?

[trthnd4jstc]

15. yes nt

[suzie]

125. Since it's unlikely, who cares?

[stuball111]

16. He's right, but...

Tearing down private health insurance companies and setting up Universal Health Care over night is not a practical thing in a country this size, and would be a logistical nightmare. Don't get me wrong, I am from Canada, and support Dennis 100%, and he should carry the ball on Single payer, and he will. But it took 30 or so years to get it firmly in place in Canada, and it's still under attack from private interests. It will be a concern for the next 100 years and more here. But, I believe U.H.C. has a foot in the door... I truly believe. Once it gets rolling, it will take off and people will embrace it en masse, and it will take root like it did up there.

[lovepg]

18. Yeah too big to fail right? nt

[stuball111]

21. It won't fail once it gets rolling

I'd much rather see Dennis running the show with his approach, and don't get me wrong, I am all for a U.H.C system as fast as possible. I hope Dennis makes a lot of noise if they balk.

[americanmutt]

32. thank you for the optimism....N/T.

[Greyhound]

34. HR 676 takes the consequences into account.

IIRC it phases in over seven years.

[unapatriciated]

54. yes it does.

It is also short and simple to read. I can't understand why we are not using this plan.
It also takes into account for the work force that will be displaced and has a solution that is very workable.

[Greyhound]

109. The other "plans" and the "debate" exist to keep our attention diverted away from any solution.

Each time the agitation for this gains traction, they come up with another way to bury it for another few months.

Why more people on this board, as well as in the party, are not outraged just shows how craven we have become.

[unapatriciated]

51. well many of us have been fighting for single payer for over 20 years.

long before we gave it a name. I have been fighting for a non-profit govt run health care since 1991.
Insurance Companies almost killed my son, with their denials and "reviews". He is now on a single payer govt. run health care plan, medicare.
This was made possible by my profit driven Insurance Company's plan. Because of their constant denials and reviews his treatment was delayed or interrupted many times during the course of active Dermatomyositis causing major muscle lose with crippling effects.
If you look at the history of health care in our country we have been fighting for a medicare style of care for a very long time.
We started out with non-profit health insurance policy, which allowed the Insurance Industries to get their "foot in the door" with the health care market. Then we allowed them to diversify and it wasn't long before we allowed for profit companies.
Then we had Nixon get in bed with Edgar Kaiser for the sole reason of providing less medical care to insure more profits.
We have been fighting for a very long time and we are growing weary while we see our family and friends suffer so that the Insurance Industry can reap profits.
We have been going backwards for the last forty years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q

[Iwillnevergiveup]

102. Well, I appreciate you, unapatriciated....

and the tremendous advocacy you've shown for your son. It is no less than criminal what you've been through.

:hug:

[izquierdista]

154. Single payer HAS had a name

It's called Medicare and it's been around for 44 years. The big part of the problem is that the progressives don't know how to build upon their own success. The reason Social Security is the "third rail" of politics and you have Repubs like Michael Steele swearing how they will defend Medicare is because they are successful programs. Any attempt to launch some new program is going to run into a wall of fear mongering and lies; any attempt to expand an already successful program is going to roll over opposition like a tsunami.

I'm sure that the Democratic leadership know this, after all, the "Medicare for All" slogan is not exactly unheard of. All I can assume is that their lack of building on successful programs that the Republicans fear to oppose means they are in league with the corporations who see blocking it as a way to make a buck.

[SandWalker1984]

79. Access to join Medicare for all is a real Public Option

The system is already in place.

True reform would start with letting the uninsured join Medicare. Then they could gradually add more and more people to the Medicare system until everyone who wants a public run plan is covered, say with an 80/20 plan.

Insurance companies would still exist for those who want private insurance and for Medicare customers who wish to have a gap insurance to cover their 20% portion.

Now THAT would be real reform!

Will we get it? Not as long as both parties are in bed with the corporations for big donations.

[AllyCat]

133. Hear, hear! Sandwalker!

Welcome to DU!

[ProudDad]

93. But this goes backwards

The government already pays for 60% of "sick care" in this country...

The private insurance companies could be counted on to leave the business and go make some money betting against old people living too long (http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/142531) or start building clusterbombs or buy some casinos in Vegas...

IF...

We just Improved and Expanded Medicare for All -- closed the loopholes, added dental, mental, alternative, etc. - revamped Part D from being a give-away to PhRMA to a benefit for We the People...

And made it available to everyone...

One simple bill, probably less than 100 pages...

Let the leeches in the health-industrial-complex try to "compete" with an improved version of the single-payer system we already have...

But that would be too humane for the USAmerikan Empire...


From your post, it appears you weren't listening. The "public option" he babbled about would be just another insurance company, run under the same "market rules" of other insurance companies, with the same profit mandate as the others, financed with taxpayer dollars and enrolling at best less than 5% of the poorest and most ill of we the people and with NO power to negotiate coverages or fees or payments... Toothless and no real competition to the leeches in the for-profit insurance mafia or Big PhRMA...

Hell, Big PhRMA is running ads FOR THIS ABOMINATION!!! What does that tell ya' (wink, wink)?

[sabrina 1]

117. We don't have to tear them down anad completely rebuild

the system, thoughWe have medicare (and medicaid) systems that are already in place, and with far, far less overhead than that of the private healthcare industry.


Medicare covers people over 65 right now. It could have been extended to cover everyone eventually, phasing out the unnecessary middle-men whose only function is to keep their profits high. Everything else they do can and is being done by those who administer Medicare.



I don't know how this system was every accepted by the American people. But I imagine it was deliberately confusing so that people didn't even know what questions to ask.

And now that they got away with it for so long, they will not give it up. We do not need private health insurers, and I am totally disappointed that Obama's bill will not only NOT start phasing them out, but will provide them profits way beyond what they already are making. And, most likely grow an industry that badly needs to go.

[Roland99]

147. There is wording in HR 676 to handle displaced workers. It is practical in that respect.

[avaistheone1]

17. I hate to admit but Kucinich is right.

I was sucking Obama's koolaid tonight because the oratory was great and impassioned. But shortly after the speech was over I really began thinking about the specifics of his plan and we are not going to get even crumbs out of this.

[stuball111]

23. I kinda had the same feeling,

It will take a while, if it is introduced at all. It was a good speech, and had me going, but Dennis brought me back down to earth. But keep up hope... the cat's outta the bag, and people have shown that they want UHC.

[MissDeeds]

43. I agree

Kucinich looked at what was and was not being offered. Obama is a charismatic and compelling speaker, but the specifics of how he is going to effect change have always been lacking. I could not believe that during this critical speech, he actually said that the specifics had not yet been worked out. That is wrong on so many levels - first, not to have a concrete, cohesive plan with a framework for implementation, but also to admit that it was still a bit sketchy. He handed the Republicans a gift, and they loved it.

[ej510]

69. I said this last night that everyone can't by into the public option.

[gorfle]

120. The public option is dead because it will kill private insurance.

As President Obama as much as said, a Public Option is just too radical, and he has no intention of destroying the private insurance industry.

If you had a Public Option that was cheaper than Private Insurance everyone would sign up for it, not just poor people. This would decimate the private health insurance industry, costing billions of dollars of lost investments and millions of jobs. Consequently, the Public Option will be set up so that it is not price-competitive with Private Insurance unless you are poor enough to get a government subsidy. Consequently poor people will get insured through the Public Option, and everyone else will continue to have to buy it from private, for-profit insurance companies, in addition to paying for the new Public Option Welfare Project.

[polly7]

146. I agree with you and believe that is the only reason.

You have the population base, the equipment and personnel already. Switching over, in my opinion, should be relatively easy. It is all about the insurance companies, it's too bad they didn't feel the same responsibility and empathy for the people they make all those billions from.

[Joe the Liberal]

19. Dennis is right once again......

judging from tonight's speech it's very clear that we wont be getting universal coverage for decades in this country, or ever for that matter. It would be alright if we at least got a public option but that might not even happen either.

It seems that the easiest way to get good health care around here is to get citizenship in a country that already has universal coverage. Granted it would it take awhile depending on how you do it but it would probably take less time then having to wait around for this country to finally get it's act together.

If we do mandate that 30 million get insurance through the private sector than we'll just be back at this point sooner or later with the same problem. The answer is so obvious but odds are we'll just keep making all the wrong moves until we finally get it right, like we always do in this country.

[unapatriciated]

55. All that is being offered is the old Nixon and Edgar Kaiser plan.

they are just making it mandatory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q

[humbled_opinion]

118. Well that is spot on...

Its our time we will never have this kind of mandate and a President that can speak so plainly and intelligently on the subject as we do now.

Our Leadership should lead of course it is a risk but the reward in the end will far outweigh the risk. Fundamental transformation of our Healthcare to a single payer govt run plan is the way ahead.

If we don't get that whatever junk they do pass will be a failure pure and simple.

[Desertrose]

20. Dennis tells it like its is......

More big giveaways to the insurance companies & big pharma...at the expense of the American people.

So we had trillions for wall street players but no money for healthcare for the people who pay those trillions in the first place ...just not logical.

[pauldg0]

132. He will......

...he even said single payer would take to long to start up as Obama said in his speech.

[ProSense]

22. Don't worry, Dennis is going to vote for the final bill

just like he did the SCHIP bill that he slammed previously.

[slipslidingaway]

98. SCHIP vote, my prior post to you, how many children do you want to leave out....

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/94

:(

[jannyk]

24. k & r

[Wetzelbill]

25. DK's role is to keep Dems honest

He represents the Dem wing of the party and isn't afraid to speak the truth even if it's a critique of his own party leadership. He might often seem negative, but we need people like this to step back away from spin and a good speech and say what they really feel. It's admirable. Now maybe some people may not think his ideas are practical etc, but he's out there standing up for the little guy and he's a pure fighter for the people, what he says and does helps hold the leadership's feet to the fire. It may not be enough sometimes, but he's always there to fight the good fight.

[pauldg0]

26. Sorry, but Dennis missed another point of Obama's...

....Obama said that he will have watchdogs to assure that everything is covered.
. No pre-existing conditions...everything would be payed for.
. Obama wants to make it right so he will have checks and balances in the system.
. Just look at the repuks faces when he was talking public option. The looked worried they were going to get kicked in their asses by the profitable insurance companies....I don't think the windfalls are coming!
. Dennis just said himself it would take to long to get the single payer system going.
. Dennis did not bring up the cost of Doctor insurance for malpractice Obama addressed.
. Obama admitted a single payer is the best, but it would be to much time to get into place.
. Dennis has a bill on the floor and an ego...for sure he wants to pass his bill.
. Basically, he is going along with Obama...he will go with the public option.

Anyway, I like Dennis. We should of gotten single payer going at the beginning, but he didn't talk it up enough.

[sabrina 1]

30. I'm not sure you understood what he meant when he said

it would be a windfall for the Ins. Cos. and Pharmaceuticals.

This is the deal I believe Obama made. The Insurance Cos. according to the Cigna Whistle-blower (and others,) have long considered the 45,000,000 uninsured Americans as a potential market. But those people cannot afford insurance and there was no law forcing them pay for a premium.

Now, Obama (copying Romney's plan) is going to force these tens of millions of people to buy a premium, from Private Insurance, and if they don't, they will be fined. Fining a person who has no money to begin with, after a while will land them in jail. More criminalization of the working poor.

In return for this huge windfall, the Ins. Cos. agreed not turn down people with a pre-condition or to refuse to pay for treatment after people get sick. That was one way they kept their profits high. I believe they calculated it, and found that mandated premiums would be far more profitable than those refusals.

So, instead of forcing them to do the right thing and fining THEM if they don't, Obama has found a way to reward them for doing what they should have been doing in the first place. With billions of dollars, from people who cannot afford it.

And for some who can prove they cannot pay those mandated premiums, the government will subsidize them. So, iow, the Government, instead of directly paying for that care, which would be cheaper, will pay private Insurance which will take one third out in profits, to do what could be done for far less. What a mess this is.

There is something very wrong with forcing people to buy something they cannot afford.

Didn't Obama agree with Kennedy that healthcare is a right, not a commodity? And none of this is necessary. It will just add more layers of bureacracy, cause more worry and fear in the working poor, and I do not see how this helps improve the failed system we already have.

Medicare is already set up. Extending it to cover all Americans was the most logical thing to do. Healthcare should not be viewed as a commodity. It is a right in all other civilized societies. What Obama is proposing, I hate to say, is the evil side of capitalism. It is profiting even from life and death.

Massachusetts has this system and it is costing way, way more than was predicted. Many poor people who could not pay, had to leave the state. Now, there will be nowhere to go, if this bill passes.

As for the public option Obama mentioned, that was so watered down that he basically signaled to Republicans that it was negotiable. And, even if it remains, it will be so limited (again to protect the Insurance Cos from competition) that few people will be able to access it.

The bottom line, this looks like the Ins. Cos. are getting what they spent millions to get. Their needs have been a priority. The needs of the American people are viewed as a commodity to be profited from. It is disgusting that they have such a hold over this country.

Dennis is right. We are rewarding the bad guys once again. I don't know how he remains so calm, knowing as much as he does.

[bobshin]

42. Correct! Criminalization of the poor and those who do not follow the system

to stay healthy. This will actually encourage unhealthy behavior and discourage preventative and alternative health care.

[bertman]

62. Sabrina 1, I applaud your incisive and accurate evaluation of what is going down. nt

[Myrina]

92. +10

Perfect analysis and summary.

[tomp]

46. oh, it's Kucinich's fault we don't have single payer!?!?

it's not possibly the fault of obama/emmanuel who refused to allow it on the table; or of the corporatist democrats who have not taken up the cause of hr 676; or of the media who refuse to address it.

with friends like you kucinich doesn't need enemies.

[Moochy]

70. "but he did not talk it up enough".

Thanks for calling out that silly bit of projection.

[Dr.Phool]

57. It's not that we didn't talk it up enough.

We were muzzled and excluded from the process.

It's all about protecting the status quo. They may not be able to exclude you when this goes into effect, but they can sure drain all of your money.

Romneycare with a smiley face.

[unapatriciated]

59. California did all those things in the early 90's...

With pre-existing conditions and the 'Fair Claims Practice Act'.
Even with these very strong laws, I spent years fighting my Insurance Company.
My son was still denied care that would have prevented much of the crippling effects of Dermatomyositis.
Why? Because the Insurance Industry helped to write the laws, leaving them wiggle room of thirty days to respond (every claim gets a grace period of thirty days).
When you are dealing with active disease you do not have thirty days to wait for approval of treatment.
They also get a second chance to deny care with what they call 'reviews', they take back money already paid leaving you in debt. Once again you are made to fight.
Fight for the health care you were assured you would get when you paid your premiums to your insurance company.
Some of us have been fighting for single payer for a very long time, we have "talked it up" for years pointing out the problems of a for profit system only to have it fall on deaf ears.
Yes we got some reform in California in the early 90's, but we allowed the for profit Insurance Industry to help write the legislation, pretty much what we are still doing almost 20 years later.
We have been comprising with them for over forty years and many americans have paid for that compromise with their lives.

This is what you will get by compromising with the for profit health insurance industry. The only difference is now it will be mandatory to line their pockets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q

[ProudDad]

94. Uh, there won't BE a "public option" in the final bill...

Did it occur to you that after the insurance leeches are mandated to cover everyone who applies and lose the ability to cut of anyone who has the bad taste to actually get sick and submit claims...

That they will just jack up the premiums, and We the Taxpayer and We the Employed will have to pay for it?

In a "free market", the corporate psychopaths always win and We the People always lose...


And you do know that in Single-Payer and Universal Coverage countries (the Civilized, industrialized WORLD), Medical malpractice "insurance" isn't an issue? That in the civilized world, "Tort reform" is an irrelevant concept?

[DutchLiberal]

138. "He will have watchdogs in place to assure that everything's covered"...

:rofl:

"Watchdogs!"

:rofl:

That's a good one!

[Why Syzygy]

27. FUCK!

I KNEW IT! :cry: There are no good men and women. None.

[aikanae]

28. It's sad that 80% of the public doesn't mean much in Congress

[Bushknew]

29. If only the masses & our politicians had his common sense. K&R

[pundaint]

31. OK, now can we have a strike?

[ProudDad]

96. I've already begun

Buy local, buy used or don't buy at all...

Starve the beast...

www.transitionus.org

[wundermaus]

33. my last post here...

I've given up on the Ideal that the people are represented by the people they elect.
It's a sham and a fraud.
Haven't said this since the 60's when RFK was murdered but it it rings true again:
The whole thing is rigged.

dropping out now... time to hunker down & fly under the radar.

- Good luck.

[bertman]

65. Wundermaus, I'm sorry to see you go. That said, I understand your despair. The Hope

and Change Express left the station last night headed for Oblivion, even as it was being wildly cheered by those of us who still WANT to believe in hope and change.

President Obama delivered a beautiful speech that camouflaged the capitulation to special interests that it represents.

Having just read a number of books about the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations, I have to agree with you that it is rigged. Rigged so well that we the people will never get it back.

"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization,
it expects what never was and never will be....
If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free,
it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."

Thomas Jefferson

[roody]

78. Yes it is rigged.

Change will come from the bottom, not from the top.

[ChiciB1]

90. I Will Probably Still Come Here To Check Things Out & Post From Time To Time... But

as far as participating as an activist to elect what we seem to elect over and over again... I'm not bustin' my butt just to get screwed!

I feel the same way, It was RFK that really brought me down way back when, and I no longer wonder if we can recapture some of THAT SAME sense of activism from back then.

Apathy & Complacency has been the norm for much too long, and what Dennis Kucinich stated is THE TRUTH, no matter how "sweet" the words from a speech may sound! The bottom line is STILL the bottom line, and no matter HOW you twist the words to make them sound like a "good deal" what is being sold, is apparently being bought too!

I can't do Ga-Ga anymore! Thankfully my husband belongs to a Union company and we have better insurance than most. And in reality, IF single payer or even public option was possible I would probably have had to make some changes. Still I was willing to do so because UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE is something this country has needed for far too long!

And yes, I'm one of the "leftie, socialist types" and have a yearning to travel to another country. But I've always been middle class, and now not so much, so I can't afford to just up and go!

I told my daughter & son that I have always been involved in politics so that I could see that I had a hand in passing onto them and the next generations some good because of my activism. Now, I'm tired and worn out. My opinions probably don't mean much, but still it's how I feel. I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes right now... it's just not working and it's time for others to fight the fight!

Kucinich and a few others "do" get it and I wonder how they keep fighting, but kudos to them! It's just too bad this country can't see the forest for the trees!

I'm not playing "bad sport" just saying I need to sit back and watch and "wonder" what the outcome will be. I won't even say "I told you so" if it goes belly up, what's the use in that??

Just remember... the DEVIL is REALLY in the DETAILS!! This time next year what Kucinich says will be back at the table. So it's 1st down and miles to go!!!

[slipslidingaway]

103. Sorry to read that but...

I do understand.

Good luck to you.

:)

[RBInMaine]

35. Single Payer just can't pass now. We need to get the best we can, and we MUST support the President

[abelenkpe2]

86. If single payer

can't pass with democrats in control of congress and the white house the county is seriously messed up.

[unapatriciated]

88. If not now, when?

I was saddened by President Obama's speech and his drifting away from a strong public option towards mandates.
This is why it saddens me:

I lost my job and Insurance in the early 90's because my son dared to get sick.

It was in the second year of my son's ten year battle with active Dermatomyositis.
He was put on my ex-husband's group plan, his illness wasn't covered for six months because now it was "pre-existing". He still needed his care and medication, so I had to sell our home to pay for the six months of care not covered.
After a year my ex-husband lost his job, by this time I had found employment with benefits but had to fight to get my son enrolled and another wait time for coverage and more debt.
Oh did I mention all the fighting, denials and "reviews" that interrupted treatment when he actual had insurance coverage, which created more debt.
We didn't need Insurance Coverage, we needed Health Care, something the Insurance Industry made almost impossible to get.
California enacted some very tough laws in the early 90's and the Insurance Industry found ways to circumvent those laws.

The Insurance Corporations are already at work with their team of lawyers, to insure that they maximize their profits from the thirty million new customers that will be mandated to buy from them. They are profit driven, just like Edgar Kaiser when he first purposed HMO's to Nixon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QkgUkM0o6Q

I do not want to see anyone else to go through what my family was forced to endure at the hands of the Insurance Cartel.
We need Health Care Not Insurance

[DutchLiberal]

141. I'm sorry for what you and your family had to go through...

Doesn't it make you livid when you hear the conservatives say that the US has "the greatest health care in the world"? Or when they say there's nothing wrong with the US, meaning literally "nothing"? And not just media personalities and politicians say these things. Regular people say it, working class people. How did they become so far removed from reality?

[unapatriciated]

155. Most have been fortunate and have not had a family member with chronic illness.

Others are outraged but think the solution is a lawsuit. They don't understand that in most states all you can sue a health insurance company for is the benefit they denies.

[ProudDad]

97. I do NOT support corporate tools (n/t)

[toadzilla]

107. oh please.. I'll support good policy, not blindly support a politician.

[flyarm]

144. no we MUST not do any such thing..we are the government dear..

have you ever read the constitution???????? Have you?..what are the first words?????????

Does it even mention the president..it is addressed to us..you and me..it says ..We the people..

the president is our employee..he MUST support us..not the other way around.

AND IF HE DOES NOT DO SO..HE MUST BE REMOVED .

His is a temporary job..ours is permanent.

Don't forget that..and do PLEASE READ YOUR CONSTITUTION..YOU HAVE A PRETTY FUCKED UP IDEA OF HOW THIS COUNTRY WORKS!

[TheUnspeakable]

36. just got myself a new avatar...

I wish everyone in the country would watch this 4 min 38 seconds. Thanks so much for posting this!

[edc]

37. When you purchase

auto insurance it is because you choose to drive a car. No one makes you drive a car. This applies to virtually anything I can think of. Of course, you are compelled to pay taxes, but no one that I know of has ever been forced by an act of Congress to purchase anything from a private vendor until now.

[Soylent Brice]

40. you should post this as it's own OP

"no one that I know of has ever been forced by an act of Congress to purchase anything from a private vendor until now. "

this point needs to be plastered all over the tubez.

[postulater]

50. This is absolutely a Birth Tax!

We now are being taxed for being born. If you refuse you go to jail.

[ProudDad]

99. Good point

Just as mandatory Social Security for all persons is a social good...

So would Comprehensive, Universal single-payer Health Care be a social good...

And defensible -- "life, liberty and the Purfuit of Happineff"

No private vendors controlling the process and the costs of Health Care...

"Improved and Enhanced Medicare for ALL" -- a simple 100 page bill to improve and expand Medicare to all persons in the U.S.

[ejbr]

39. I did not listen to the president's speech,

I did not watch any pundits respond. Instead, I gratefully find this post of Congressman Kucinich's response for my understanding of what transpired. Sadly, I can only trust the opinion of a handful of people on this matter.

[bobshin]

41. Fuck Obama! Required Health Insurance for everyone is WRONG!

Kucinich is right but he fails to point out the danger in this. This will further degrade our "health care system" as it already frowns upon alternative health care and actually aggressively attacks it. The only "progress" allowed will be more dangerous undertested toxic drugs for the masses. Those choosing to not use the system will be punished- that's the bottom line here- our freedom, our choices are being taken away- and Big Pharma and the medical industrial complex will completely quash any alternatives to their already FU'd system.

[Enthusiast]

44. I love Dennis and

I agree in a perfect world the insurance industry would get zero consideration. But, I feel we must allow these bills to take shape and be enacted. President Obama will be held accountable for the final product.

The problem is corporate influence. This is reality. To overcome corporate power several key legislation goals have to be made. Health care is far from the only issue they are killing us on. The very concept of corporate person hood is ridiculous on its face. Corporations must be forced to be "good citizens". We must weigh the need to change the SCOTUS with abandoning support for President Obama.

[postulater]

53. Corporate personhood AND the election process!

The winner-take-all setup of our elections guarantees candidates vying for the majority opinion. This tends to settle issues toward the center. Change is hard to make if there is no energy away from the center.

We have ended up with two corporate parties this way and no alternative.

Until we change the election system we will have more of the same.

We need to be able to vote for several candidates in order of our preference. If no candidate receives over fifty percent of the first choice votes, then the second choice votes are added in. This continues until a candidate exceeds fifty percent of the votes.

This will make a third party candidate truly viable and will allow change in the gridlock of the two party corporate system.

[Enthusiast]

63. I would take your system

tomorrow. Getting a system like this is the difficult part because of entrenched interests. These entrenched interests like it this way.

Just getting rid of the electoral college would be a start. Without the electoral college every vote would at least count.

We are so far away from where we need to be, to become a true representative democracy.

[ProudDad]

100. You don't really believe that Obama will appoint

non-corporate judges, do you?

He's a corporatist stooge. Of course, he will appoint more little Steven Briers...

[Boku-Wa]

127. He already appointed one to the bench!

[ProudDad]

159. You do remember that Sotamayor...

was a prosecutor first, a CORPORATE LAWYER 2nd and then a judge...right?

Her record is as a pro-business, "centrist" judge...

She'll vote with the corporations...

[orbitalman]

45. This reporter is screwed up...

repeating doubtful questions that have already been addressed. Dennis is basically RIGHT. However the Insurance industry, in general (health, auto, home,life), is fucked. The problem is the capitalistic profit that takes AWAY the RISK factor which IS the business they're in.

[Loge23]

47. Missing from the speech...

...was a sharp, objective rebuke of the obscene profits realized by the health care insurance cartel. Free enterprise only works in a democracy when core business interests remain paramount (providing insurance, in this case) and profits are responsibly structured. What has gone wrong with American financial and insurance services is that businesses have replaced their core business objective with profiteering. Whatever goods or services provided are now secondary to generating massive profits. Thus, they have violated the unwritten but essential element of doing business in a democracy - responsibility to the community in which they operate, be it a town, a nation, or a planet. This is the proverbial elephant (no pun intended, but doesn't that imagery work!) on the room that goes unchallenged and unspoken by most of our so-called leaders.
Obama mentioned the insane administrative costs, but I think he should have taken aim and let the facts fly.
Matt Tiabbi in his excellent Rolling Stone article this month, placed the admin costs at a full 1/3 of the total expenses.
Whether Mr. Taibbi's numbers are accurate, Obama should have ascertained this amount and exposed it for the full amount that it is.
But, I'll take what we can get at this point. Single-payer should have been the starting point for the debate. It probably never would have passed, but for all the noise we got throw at us by the pukes it would have led to a more robust, and more public, solution than what we now have in front of us.
That said, it is time to get behind Obama and get this passed.

[Karenina]

76. A quibble.

"...they have violated the unwritten but essential element of doing business in a democracy - responsibility to the community in which they operate, be it a town, a nation, or a planet."

What they have is a legally mandated fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to generate profits. PUNKT. FEIERABEND.

Dennis is spot on as usual. THE SYSTEM ITSELF IS FLAWED. The model of "insurance" as applied to health care is, in and of itself, faulty. However, it is INSTITUTIONALIZED and deeply embedded in the financial system with the extensions of an ant colony; its JOB ONE to generate profits. And as is true of any institution, the "health insurance industry" exists to perpertuate itself, backed by SCADS of VERY DEEP POCKETS.

[ProudDad]

101. "Free enterprise only works in a democracy when core business interests remain paramount"

"Free enterprise only works in a democracy when core business interests remain paramount (providing insurance, in this case) and profits are responsibly structured."

Uh, capitalism 101 for those of you who weren't paying attention in class:

"THE PATHOLOGY OF COMMERCE: CASE HISTORIES

To assess the "personality" of the corporate "person," a checklist is employed, using diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization and the standard diagnostic tool of psychiatrists and psychologists. The operational principles of the corporation give it a highly anti-social "personality": it is self-interested, inherently amoral, callous and deceitful; it breaches social and legal standards to get its way; it does not suffer from guilt, yet it can mimic the human qualities of empathy, caring and altruism. Four case studies, drawn from a universe of corporate activity, clearly demonstrate harm to workers, human health, animals and the biosphere. Concluding this point-by-point analysis, a disturbing diagnosis is delivered: the institutional embodiment of laissez-faire capitalism fully meets the diagnostic criteria of a "psychopath."

http://www.thecorporation.com/index.cfm?page_id=312

[truedelphi]

157. I do think that Taibbi's facts are indeed facts.

After all, the head of HealthCare United receives as much in his salary for the year as the entire combined payroll for one of HealthCare U's Rhode Island Hospitals

One exec = 3,3000 hospital employees.

Something is very wrong here.

[ecstatic]

48. Too bad Kucinich couldn't convince people of this during his 30-something years

in the public eye.

[bertman]

60. Ecstatic, I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or philosophical, so let me point out

that NO ONE could convince the people of this while being ignored or ridiculed by the corporate media. The corporate media control the message that 90% of Americans get. The other 10% realize that Dennis Kucinich is a thoughtful, pro-democracy advocate--despite the corporate media's long-running attempts to paint him as an extremist.

[Moochy]

73. Yeah because if it is not popular with the American People

it must be crap!

[scentopine]

49. The Next Big Wall Street Meltdown, Dems will Bail em Out -nt

[Eyerish]

52. K&R

[t0dd]

56. Dennis is a wonderful human being, and I will be a supporter of his until the day I die. nt

[harun]

143. Me too. I can be a Democrat because DK is a Democrat. If they didn't have people

like him, Conyers and Feingold I wouldn't be associated with them.

[debbierlus]

58. That speech was a big wet tongue kiss to the private insurance companies who brough the system

To ruin....

I am aghast at those who are cheering this corporate sales pitch as 'hitting out of the park'.

[Bushknew]

81. The same people here who were impressed with John Kerry’s gravitas

Are the same people who bow down to Obama’s eloquence and say he hit
It out of the park.





Dennis doesn’t have Kerry’s gravitas or Obama’s oratory skill.


What Dennis has is sound judgment. As time passes, many who are cheering now will find

out this was not the best course of action after all. Just as Dennis was one of the few voices against the war.

[ChiciB1]

95. I Have TWO Chocolate Labs Who Could Deliver That Wet Tongue Kiss

a lot better than what was delivered last night! And I couldn't even watch the whole speech as time went on. Of course I KNEW I would be able to get all the particulars here and other places.

I did see all the HOORAHS for Obama last night and thought to myself, well there goes any thoughts of "we the people" getting together with some UNITY to speak out against what is really being proposed!

Yesterday, I thought perhaps we could get a movement going, today I see those like us are clearly outnumbered, just as Dennis Kucinich is. We can talk, we can propose, but in the end... reality is like "dust in the wind!" There's not a chance in Hell, and even today Repukes are saying THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR THIS! NOT EVEN THIS!!

My son-in-law works in an ER Room at a rather big hospital and thinks this really stinks! What is THIS going to do to stop people from running to the ER just as they are now?? He can hardly stand dealing with "the system" now because not only are the poor getting "minimum" care at the ER, the same crazies keep coming back after they've done the very same stupid thing that they came in for the month before. Spending $200.00 plus for drugs that almost kill them, then go right out and do it all over again!! Even worse, their actions put so many others at risk, what if THEY don't have insurance??

It's a FACT, that those who don't have insurance get "band-aid" care at the ER as opposed to those who come in with insurance. So, if you can't afford insurance in the FIRST place, then you get fined for NOT having it, THAT seems like a STEP BACK WARDS!!

What will be, will be! Getting behind Obama to pass this doesn't seem like something we should be pushing for. Going back to the drawing table would be better, but that ain't gonna happen. There are too many here, even at DU who have stars in their eyes because of "the speech."

JMO!

[flyarm]

145. +1, +1,+1,+1,+1 !!! YOU HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK! EOM

[eleny]

61. I share his lack of enthusiasm K&R

I fail to see why the insurance industry which is making huge profits needs an injection of cash from us. I suppose it's the balm they get for having to insure those who they refuse to insure right now. What I saw proposed last night was not the major overhaul we need. I'm resigned to the fact that I won't see reform in my lifetime.

[bertman]

64. The health insurance and pharmaceutical industries are getting what they paid for: the

most beneficial legislation money can buy from Congress--and the Presidency.

Representative Kucinich is right, as he usually is. One of the few reps or Senators who speaks truth, not propaganda.

Recommend.

[L0oniX]

66. Obama will be a one term president! Hopefully ...he will be replaced by Kucinich.

[pberq]

67. Dennis - you rock!!!!!

One of the few voices of sanity who hasn't sold his soul to the corporate monster.

[Overseas]

68. I wrote positively about the speech because the President finally called out GOP intransigence,

but I do agree with Dennis that HR676 is a much neater solution which we could afford to give our citizens.

It was painful to me to hear our President insist that our national health security would not add one dime to the deficit-- WHY NOT? -- Why can't our health security cost anything?

It would be another great and tangible thing we could get from paying taxes. If people knew they'd never have to worry about getting sick and could have universal health care for their taxes, it would really take the wind out of the standard GOP "Taxes Bad!" arguments. Because people would feel-- taxes good-- if they could walk into any clinic with their national health card and get treated.

[NikolaC]

124. I Would Be Interested In Seeing the CBO

numbers for HR 676. It seems to me to be the most rational plan for health care reform. I agree with Kucinich, who is on the money as usual. Well, we will see what the final bill will be soon enough.

[glitch]

72. The expression on his face breaks my heart. K & R nt

[colsohlibgal]

75. Go Dennis Go!

He is right on it but never has had a chance to be much more than an irritant to the ruling class because he is so marginalized by the corporate media.

[valerief]

77. kick!

:kick:

[mother earth]

80. Why isn't Kucinich on the committee? Why is it that the

best people are never utilized where they should be? I wish we could have DK, Sanders & Dean in charge of this.

[Greyhound]

110. The Party Power Brokers will not allow anyone with any principles

anywhere near any real power.

Just think of the last selection for House Speaker, Pelosi or Hoyer, which corporate shill do you know less about.:eyes:

[suzie]

126. If they won't allow anyone without principles access to power, why

should they keep Kucinich out? He's shown himself to be among the most unprincipled politicians around.

[Greyhound]

131. I think you misread it, or maybe you're just another of the "my party right or wrong" fools

trying to be clever.

Since 1968 this party has consistently betrayed it's constituents, yet every time you act shocked when they do it.
:dunce:

[suzie]

153. I'm glad you went back in history.

Because most of the Kucinich supporters refuse to allow us to look at his record. Which was highly anti-woman until he miraculously changed when he decided to act as if he were running for the presidency.

I'm of Kucinich's generation and one who was involved back before George McGovern ran, to support women's issues. Kucinich opposed those in his years in Congress, until he decided to change his stance overnight because he knew that his more "progressive" new constituency could not accept his anti-woman politics.

My blue-dog representative voted against anti-women legislation that Kucinich voted for--and I'm not highly enamored with my representative, but he betrayed women less than Dennis Kucinich.

So, please don't lecture me about betrayal, or Dennis Kucinich as "principled politician". Unless of course to you the Democratic Party consists only of white males.

[Greyhound]

156. Yes he did, He was wrong and has said so many times.

And he's still one of the very few in DC actually working to make things better for people.

Being wrong and admitting it is also principled.

[suzie]

158. Being wrong and admitting may be principled.

Changing your stance of years overnight simply to appeal to a different constituency is simple being a good flim flammer.

[Greyhound]

161. Have you ever met him, ever talked with him?

He's not that hard to meet, I've done it three times and have never lived in Ohio. Or, do you simply prefer to retain your hatred of one of the very few representatives in DC that has your interests at heart?

BTW, the women in his life changed his mind, not a hopeless candidacy.

[ProSense]

82. Will he vote for it?

RICE: One last question, Congressman. Based upon what you’re saying so far, will you vote against this system, this new bill if it ever comes before you.

KUCINICH: Well, as we learned from a few months ago, there is no telling what is going to come to us. I’m not very optimistic at this point based on what I heard tonight. And I’m not saying it’s my way or the highway. Yes, I’m the co-author of a bill for single payer. And that’s going to take a national movement that could take years to bring about. And it would be good if we made progress in the direction of trying to find a way to help people to survive in this economy. I think a bill that gives broad subsidies to insurance and pharmaceutical interests is a problem.

link

Sure he will. Excellent cop out.

[abelenkpe2]

84. He'll vote for whatever bill comes together

But he's right and I still love him.

What needs to happen is for people to start calling and writing their reps and continue to push for a strong public option, for insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies to Not be rewarded for their years of deplorable behavoir. There is still time. The final bill has not been written.

[ProudDad]

104. What makes you think that?

I believe that Kucinich will vote NO to any bill that doesn't have either a viable "public option" that could challenge the insurance mafia (which it won't) or his amendment that will allow states to do single-payer if they wish!

Unlike most of the CongressCritters, Kucinich has some core principles.

[abelenkpe2]

108. I agree

He has principles. I think it may come down to needing to vote yes to support democrats over supporting an ideal bill. But he is in the House so you're right he may be able to vote his conscience. Let's hope so. In the meantime we need to keep puching for a public option despite the possibility that democrats are willing to let it go. Without public option the insurance companies win big and I can't see how that isn't to the detriment of everyone else.

[truedelphi]

116. He really does. He gets it. Maybe his long history

(Back when he was mayor) Of attempting to keep the city owned utility away from the greedy Bigger Utility interests is proof of that. Maybe others would want mroe proof, but to me, that time period tells me everything I need to know about this man.

[LWolf]

139. I've never known him NOT to vote his conscience.

One of the reasons why he stands alone among politicians as one who has earned a measure of my trust.

[Laelth]

85. Delete.

self-delete

-Laelth

[zeos3]

87. K & R

[LatteLibertine]

89. I hope Kucinich runs in 2012

I'll support him.

[slipslidingaway]

91. Thanks for all the replies and recs :) n/t

[WhoIsNumberNone]

106. And so dies healthcare reform

Fuck the public interest. The republicans get their way again.

[ProudDad]

160. And most of the Democrats...

Don't forget, big insurance and drug money went into the pockets of most of the Dems, too.

Corporate money rules absolutely...

Corporate money always trumps public need...

[Time for change]

111. Excellent interview, and I agree with him

[maxpower]

112. I love Rep. Kucinich

I vote for him every time he runs for pres. This man belongs in the White House.



Peace,
Max

[Nothing Without Hope]

113. Kucinich is the person in Congress who I trust the most. He's smart, he's

honest, his priorities are always straight, and he speaks clearly what needs to be said.

[Uncle Joe]

114. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, slipslidingaway.

[RoccoR5955]

119. RIGHT ON DENNIS.... KUCINICH/SANDERS '12!!!

The man speaks the truth. The US NEEDS Dennis Kucinich for President in 2012. I will start campaigning for him NOW!

[pleah]

121. K& R

[Fire1]

122. Putting caps on premiums, out of pocket co-pays, regulating

pharmaceuticals and treatments doesn't sound like runaway subsidies for the insurance companies, to me. Even Kucinich KNOWS we're not in a position for single payer right now just as our President does but they BOTH indicate that this issue will be back on the table in the future. President Obama's plan is the "means to an end."

[Better Believe It]

123. K & R The insurance industry and big Pharma are still fine tuning their bill ....

so we don't know what the bill will look like outside of it being a huge handout to the private insurance and drug industry.

[gateley]

128. I trust Dennis implicitly in matters such as this. I was so encouraged, but now...nt

[boobooday]

129. The man speaks the truth

The profit motive is the ugly, immoral elephant in the room.

[sushi]

130. Do like us

Here in Australia, 1 1/2% of salaries goes to Medicare, and we're encouraged to have private health insurance. Having a population of 22 million only obviously makes things easier for the government. x-)

[ihavenobias]

134. K & R n/t

[Roland99]

135. Don't tell this to the Obama fan club.

[wroberts189]

136. One single lonely person speaking truth ... sigh. nt knr

[Dystopian]

137. KandR

I wish he was president.

I had so much hope....
Very sad...My grandson held the marker and voted with me...He was ten years old, and so excited.
It was a day of joy....now just a memory because Obama was the only one we could vote for.

peace~

[LWolf]

140. k & r for the best Democrat standing, bar none. nt

[harun]

142. How can one man be so right so often? Because he thinks about what is just and right

not what will get him the most campaign contributions.

Love Dennis and he sums it up perfectly. If we don't get a strong public option I know DK will not vote for the bill and neither with the House Progressive Caucus.

[slipslidingaway]

148. Thanks again, I'm sure that Dennis is happy people are listening...

and a reminder of what he said last week.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090903_dont_be_fooled_by_the_public_option/?ln

"Kucinich suggested I read articles written by health insurance expert Kip Sullivan on the Web site of Physicians for a National Health Program, which advocates government-run universal health care. Sullivan, he said, has figured out the real story..."

http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/20/bait-and-switch-how-the-%E2%80%9Cpublic-option%E2%80%9D-was-sold/
http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/08/08/reply-to-critics-of-%E2%80%9Cbait-and-switch-how-the-%E2%80%98public-option%E2%80%99-was-sold%E2%80%9D/


Shorter article...

THE HISTORY OF THE PUBLIC OPTION...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6456383&mesg_id=6456383


:)

[burrowowl]

149. DK and Bernie Sanders

are for the PEOPLE!

I am sick and tired of the People being called folks and Consumers of Health Insurance!
Goddammit! When I am sick, I am a patient and not a damn consumer or client!
Would that BO be more like FDR (hell even Ike or Nixon) and not Clinton, best repug prez since RayGun (IKE was better).

[gtar100]

150. The price *we* pay so that the health insurance industry investors get to play.

Did you hear from Thom Hartmann how certain health insurance company stocks rose today after the speech? What a bunch of cynical, self-serving bastards every one of those investors are. Leeches on our very existence.

[Skittles]

151. this guy should be president

[kster]

152. Single payer health care Joe Wilson, Joe Wilson , Joe Wilson.

Get with the program the speech was so full of shit they need you to talk about Joe Wilson.

Dennis refuses to be part of the "firewall" which is our Dem and Rep Politicians that stand between us and any true reform from the insurance industry.

Obama needs to stop the bullshit and stand up for Single Payer NOW.

In the transition many insurance company employees will get put out of a job.

Obama needs to give them employees a bailout, full pay for three to five years until we get Single Payer up and running where most of the unemployed insurance employees will find employment in the Single Payer operation.

ITS TIME TO STAND UP....KNR