Biden and Obama on HIV Testing

[Divine Discontent]

Run time: 01:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f-nYgXceA8   Posted on YouTube: June 29, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 30, 2007 By DU Member: Divine Discontent Views on DU: 2546

 
You see Senator Clinton, and Rev. Sharpton remaining mature as Joe Biben makes a very heartfelt case as to why it's wrong for the Black community to quit thinking it's not manly to get a HIV test, because a vast majority in the black community think it's only a gay disease - and Sen. Biden makes such a strong point, but becuase there's such homophobia in this country, and especially within that room, Senator Obama has to give in to the laughter from the immature/ignorant laughter and make a series of jokes that appear to upset Sen. Biden.

I am shocked he did this. This isn't anyone I want as my president. I want Gore/Clark/Edwards/Kucinich/Clinton/Biden in that order - I won't vote for a man that takes a pot shot at the gay community like this to front for his people that he's not gay!

[Darth_Ole]

1. Jesus Christ, not this again...

Have you not been paying attention to anything anyone's been posting or saying about this? You know, I've been thinking it's probably not worth pointing out to people who think this was a gay slur that Obama was making a joke about cheating, because anybody who misunderstood this has no sense of humor...

This is about as stupid as Fox News trying to raise hell over his middle name and the fact that he is a recovering smoker...

Grow up, folks... Whether you get his jokes or not, focus on his policies...

[Divine Discontent]

5. not this again? and not, not Jesus Christ, just a person who was taken aback by Obama's choices

I didn't see the video was on DU so I loaded it.

It is obvious to me, sorry you don't see it that way, that he reacts to the laughter from the audience when Biden says that he got tested for aids, then says Obama got tested for aids (and the crowd laughs), so when Obama gets to speak, I have no idea why he finds the need to make it clear - so that no one gets confused that he got tested with MICHELLE - I was with my WIFE - in PUBLIC. You'd have to be deaf to not hear the raised vocal wording and see he is reacting to the crowd's laughter and wanting to make clear he's not a gay man, when no one said he was - it's called being hyper-masculine - he did not, at ALL, need to go there, but he chose to for laughs and ignores Biden's brilliant point that there's too much embarassment in the Black community that it's perceived as "not manly" to many in the community, and that was Biden being as proper as he could think of to say he's heard many black men say, "I ain't no queer, why do I need to get tested". And I hang out with a few black guys and they agree with me, that's how it is viewed. But whatever, I'm not going to vote for him now, and that's all that matters. We'll agree to disagree if you do not hear it or see why he had to 'go there'.

[tired_old_fireman]

9. The weird part for me...

When I watched the debate, I went to bed assuming Obama would be getting lambasted today for making a blatantly homophobic comment. I was shocked when journalists were saying it was a funny line and not mentioning the homophobic overtones.

My heart really goes out to the gay community. Is there any group that is more put down with so few people who are willing to defend them or at the very least listen to their point of view?

As Elie Wiesel once suggested, indifference is worse than the crime.

[Divine Discontent]

12. you are blessed! what a heartfelt comment, thank you!

you have no idea how much it is great to see someone stand up for the gay community who's not gay and who saw Obama was making a joke about being gay - at Biden's expense. I hear non-stop gay comments like this and worse every where I go, every where I see flamboyant gay guys getting harrassed (I do stand up for them), and although I'm not flamboyant and rarely get questioned about my sexual preference, I am gay, and take offense when it's obvious our community is being used for laughter to make a straight guy boast about being masculine and not a gay man (bah!)

Take care fireman - my brother was a firefighter - he did brave work when he was younger!

[purduejake]

14. You're right on.

I had to watch it twice to see if I missed Biden saying something that would cause Obama's reaction. I didn't understand his reaction or what in the hell was so funny at first. But you're right. This is totally inappropriate and homophobic. Thank you Hillary, Biden, and Sharpton. This is no laughing matter. And thanks to you, my fellow DUers for recognizing this and being sensitive to it because this really, REALLY bothers me.

[tired_old_fireman]

6. Thanks for the lecture

but, I thought he meant it as a joke that he wasn't a couple with Biden....(not that there's anything wrong with that.)

I can understand why people thought it was homophobic and if someone took it that way I don't fault their sense of humor or maturity. People come at things with different perspectives. I thought it was homophobic because I'm around what they call locker room type humor all the time. His joke seemed to fit that mold to me. Others who know more about Obama insist otherwise and I'm having trouble understanding their point of view.

The problems with politicians telling jokes is that they sometimes have bad consequences. Ask John Kerry. I'd rather get my jokes from a comedian and let the politicians tell me their policies.

[Divine Discontent]

7. amen, fireman, amen n/t

[pnwmom]

37. I suggest you listen to the whole thing again.

And look at the faces of the African Americans in the audience as Biden pontificates about how he goes around and lectures the black community about what they need to know about HIV.

Put yourself in their shoes. Doesn't Biden sound like a know-it-all white guy telling black people how ignorant they are?

The tension in that room could have been cut with a knife. That was the reason for the laughter. After all Biden's self-important lecturing, he flubbed up when he made a statement that could be misinterpreted.

And Obama clearly was not happy about being brought into it that way -- for Biden to leave hanging the question of just why Obama had needed to be tested. But, to diffuse all the tension in the room, he decided to let it go -- to let the audience laugh at the idea that he would even DARE commit adultery against his wife Michelle.

[celticdem]

50. Turn the page honestly

The man made a preemptive strike for his heterosexuality lest anyone think he had been hanging out with the boys. It wasn't funny. It wasn't his most shining hour. It wasn't him at the level of confidence and intelligence for which he is, with good reason, admired. And it wasn't him behaving in a very 'presidential' way. It also is not the biggest gaffe we're going to see from him or any of them during the upcoming campaign. I would be very surprised if he didn't learn a little something, himself, from the moment. Let's all do likewise and move on.

[nevergiveup]

2. You must be joking

Obama was making a reference to adultery and his faithfulness to his wife. You really have to spin this big time to come up with Obama "taking a pot shot at the gay community". I think both Biden and Obama handled the sensitive topic very well

[purduejake]

15. But Biden said nothing to infer he was with Obama.

And WTF was so funny? What prompted Obama to say that?

[pnwmom]

21. What prompted him to say it was that

the two main avenues of transmission are sex and drugs.

He was trying to clear himself -- before the media and Republicans went wild over this -- from any claims that he had been unfaithful to his wife. Adultery is still a major no-no to the vast majority of voting Americans.

[pnwmom]

3. The context was HETEROSEXUAL sex among African Americans.

It had absolutely nothing to do with gay sex and Obama's statement was nothing more than an effort to head off any claims that he was guilty of adultery.


Biden isn't upset, except that he then feels the need to clarify why he got tested -- again, nothing to do with HIV as a gay person's disease.

[Darth_Ole]

4. I thought of another point...

Biden also went ahead and clarified why he got his AIDS test, but nobody has accused him of making a homophobic joke. Could it be because Biden is not one of the frontrunners and Obama is and thus is easy to take potshots at? I'd say so.

[Divine Discontent]

8. oh my goodness

your rationale is weak imo. He just got done saying, did you not hear, that there was a strong viewpoint in the Black community that getting tested wasn't manly, and so he said they need to stop being ashamed of getting tested, it's the right thing to do, and that he got tested, and that Obama got tested, and they are both men, so they all should get tested - it's not because he was taking a pot shot at Obama - how irrational of you take such a well purposed statement by Sen. Biden that was very heartfelt and spin it into "Biden was just trying to tarnish Obama by implying he had to take an AIDS test!"

[Darth_Ole]

10. No, you're missing the point (which wouldn't be the first time)...

Where did I say Biden was trying to tarnish Obama? Where did I even imply it?

Rather, if you read my post carefully, I said Biden also went ahead and clarified that he got his AIDS test as the result of a blood transfusion, but you and others don't seem to think that's a gay slur. Why aren't you appalled that Biden talked about there being no shame in getting an AIDS test and then admitting that his reason was because he had just had a blood transfusion? Why don't you perceive that as a homophobic insult?

Again, Obama is an early frontrunner in this race, so naturally he is the target of easy potshots (from folks like you, not Joe Biden, which was my point).

[Divine Discontent]

11. How about you use proper & clear sentences?

You should have said perhaps people are attacking Obama because he's one of the front runners. You're sentence was malformed and could be digested as you're implying Biden was taking a swipe at him, because Biden's the same person who said he was "clean".

I noticed that comment by Biden over Obama's shouting the 3rd time I watched it. Obama was so needing to make it clear he wasn't gay that he started yelling AFRICA, WIFE, etc... Yes, Biden responded to the mass laughter in the hall from Obama's "I'm not gay" joke by making it clear he did his HIV test for surgical reasons, and it was because Obama had made a mockery of his heartfelt earlier comment that was wiped away by Obama's childish joke. Biden didn't have to say anything, but he didn't have to make it clear he wasn't a gay man like Obama did, either.

God bless, good night.

[pnwmom]

18. Obama was needing to make it clear he's not an ADULTERER. Period.

It has nothing to do with being gay, and the context -- a discussion of what African American men and women need to learn about HIV -- made that abundantly clear.

[pnwmom]

17. That's not what he was saying.

He didn't suggest that Biden was trying to tarnish Obama.

But I think a number of DU supporters of other candidates are trying to falsely smear Obama as a homophobe.

[Divine Discontent]

13. good night - thanks to the dozens of "this isn't making fun of gay people" comments

you've assured me there are many people on DU that do not respect gay people's feelings of constantly being used for prop humor, and being made to appear non-masculine, as Obama's need to rush and point out he got his test with MICHELLE, to mass laughter, in AFRICA in PUBLIC as he said so crassly.

He lost a supporter, that's all there is to it, but on a bigger scale, I realize that there aren't as many supporters of gay people and their struggles at getting accepted without being made the joke at every turn by entertainers and politicians and talking heads (a la Ann Coulter calling Gore a total fag - to big laughs on Tweety's show, and calling Edwards gay at a Republican dinner - to laughs), like Obama using the appearance of being gay as a lightning rod to make a series of jokes to prove he's not to laughter.

Thanks for making some of us feel you don't give a crap about gay people, you know who you are - so just say it - and be honest instead of hiding behind your sly comments. My buddy who's black is gonna hate this video, so I probably won't even show it to him. He hears it enough from his church about needing to date some girls (like that's gonna change him).

[purduejake]

16. Leaving is a good idea...

I think you're right on, but when people are ignorant to the bigotry that's obvious to us, there's little you can do to change their mind. I might have possibly considered voting for Obama if he became the democratic candidate in the general election, but now there's no way.

Have a good night and a good weekend.

[pnwmom]

20. And maybe too many bad experiences in the past have made

you over sensitive in this particular case.

[purduejake]

22. This is a global pandemic.

This disease poses an incredible risk to humanity, especially as it mutates. Ignorance exacerbates the problem and we have somebody who wants to lead this country joking about it after so many ignorant people in the room laughed. He's playing the crowd and not leading... that's not very Presidential.

If Biden wanted to go out of his way to say that he wasn't sexually involved with a BLACK person (even though nobody even suggested it), there would be a lot more outrage. But people can take swipes at gays - even in this forum and somehow people who are offended are "over sensitive." That's outrageous.

[pnwmom]

23. How is trying to say you're not an adulterer

equivalent to taking swipes at gays?

[purduejake]

25. I'm not black.

And there's no reason to say that since nobody accused me of it. So why did Obama feel the need to say he's not an adulterer when NOBODY even suggested it? I'm going to take my own advice and say good night because ignorance and bigotry isn't going to be solved in this forum.

[pnwmom]

29. Nobody needs to suggest that because everyone knows sex and IV drugs

are the two main ways of transmission.

Obama was obviously concerned that some people in the media and some political enemies could use Biden's statement to insinuate that Obama has been unfaithful to his wife.

Biden really had no business in broadcasting anything about Obama's testing.

[purduejake]

26. You're taking it out of context.

Shame on you.

[pnwmom]

30. You're twisting what Obama said.

Out of some need to feel victimized even when you aren't.

[pnwmom]

19. Your feelings are real for you but by no means universal

among gay people. I have a gay parent and lots of connections in the gay community, and I don't know anyone who thought the comment meant anything except that Obama was trying to clear himself of any allegations of adultery. Listen to what Biden's saying just before -- it's all about MEN and WOMEN having sex and needing to know how to take care of themselves.

[purduejake]

24. I don't care about your connections.

They don't invalidate anybody's feelings. There were no allegations of adultry... Obama was just being a jerk to play the idiots in the crowd.

[pnwmom]

33. Obama was trying to head off allegations of adultery

since Biden's statement, coupled with his remarks about black men needing to learn to use condoms and black women needing to learn to say no, could have left the question in the media as to whether Obama had engaged in high risk behavior.

[Divine Discontent]

28. I've spoken to several people without setting up the video

to get responses and they said it was obvious he was trying to make the crowd laugh by implying he wasn't gay because of Biden tinting the wording making it sound like they went and got tested together. I do respect you asked people too, but I'm reading net wide disgust from many people about him.

You surely acknowledge that the crowd is laughing from the MOMENT Biden says they both went and got tested for AIDS, do you not hear that? That's why they're laughing, they think it's funny for themselves to insinuate with his words that they were tested for AIDS together, then Obama jumps all over the laughter roaring through the place, and says the stuff I don't even want to hear ever again. I listened four times and you have to be ignoring the background laughter, and Obama's tone, to think anything but he's making what he thinks is just a light-hearted poke at Biden. It will follow him around.

Obama has shot himself in the foot way too much so early, to be trusted with the nomination, it's gotta go to Hillary, Al, Dennis, John, Wes, Bill or Joe... He's green. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but you can't go around making jokes like that and be taken seriously, unless you're a Republican (B*sh getting away with everything from mocking blind reporters to saying women need to be made love to by their OB's!)

[pnwmom]

31. Some in the crowd are laughing just after Biden was talking about

how black men need to learn to use condoms and black women need to learn to say no. And, says Biden, I've been tested and I know Barack has been too.

The crowd is laughing at Obama's obvious discomfort because Biden's statement implies that Obama has engaged in high risk behavior for HIV transmission. You're reading way too much into it to think it implies a relationship between Biden and Obama.

Knowing how the media and political enemies take situations and twist them, I don't blame Obama at all for not letting any hint of adultery hang out there.

[Darth_Ole]

41. Guess what, Themartyred? I'm bisexual...

And if you want proof, I'd be more than happy to introduce you to a couple of my former male lovers.

So how's that for not supporting the gay community and hiding behind my "sly" comments?

Edit: This is actually a reply to post #13.

[Bucky]

27. People kid around like this. That doesn't make them homophobic.

HIV is a horrible reality. I've lost friends to it. I've worked with AIDS sufferers professionally. Thre's a lot of pain and fear and, as Biden points out, denial associated with this modern plague. It's only natural to offer a little levity, to laugh so we don't despair, about this problem. I don't think Obama's little joke hurt anyone or anything. I don't think it promoted ignorance or denial or encouraged anybody to pretend HIV isn't a problem.

I suppose we could do some Fristian TV professional diagnosis of Obama's mentality that would encourage that joke. From there we could overanalyze and justify saying something profoundly Freudian about his inner demons and insecurities. But the reality is that the audience giggled at the tension Biden's directness brought into the room and Obama was playing off the audience. Politicians do that, they connect with people and play off audiences.

This is a tempest in a teapot. I applaud Biden confronting the topic head on. I don't psychoanalyze him clarifying he got tested because he'd had a blood transfusion any more than I psychoanalyze Obama. It's an important topic we should hope all politicians take seriously. Let's not trivialize it.

[Divine Discontent]

32. Let's not trivialize it

like Senator Obama, a man running for President just did by ignoring Senator Biden's comments about the Black community being ashamed of AIDS testing as not being manly, and of course, that it's a 'gay disease' as many people think, and what does O do but go to the gay joke! At least you realize it for what it was! :)
It's not even 1/10 as big a deal as Bush sending us to war on a lie - but it lowers Obama down the list with plenty of gay and gay friendly people. I'm sorry he said it, but I'm glad what he finds funny is coming out to help me make a better choice.

[pnwmom]

34. It's odd that no one's chewing out Biden for wanting to clarify about

his blood transfusions.

Maybe it's because Biden's not a front runner and has few people out to get him.

[pnwmom]

35. Watching that again, I'm struck by Biden's patronizing tone, and the

grim expression of some of the African American people in the audience as they listen to him lecture them. I think what you are overlooking here is how incredibly condescending Biden sounds, talking about how he goes around the black community imparting his words of wisdom.

The tension builds and builds. Then when Biden babbles on about how he got tested -- and how Obama got tested -- and the audience sees the shocked look on Obama's face (it really was none of Biden's business to be bringing Obama into it, just Biden's usual diarrhea of the mouth) -- the audience responds with uneasy laughter.

And Obama, realizing that the obvious thought in some minds -- especially political enemies -- will be that perhaps he had engaged in SOME sort of high risk behavior -- decides to defuse all the tension by allowing the audience to laugh at the idea that he would ever DARE commit adultery, with a wife like Michelle.

Don't forget what happened to Bill Clinton when he was accused of adultery. No way does Obama want to leave himself open to those kinds of insinuations.

[Divine Discontent]

36. that does it, you're way off base and I'm calling you out on it

You're now attacking Biden, the one who gave a mature comment about the devastating effect of AIDS, and IGNORING he got a HUGE applause for his heartfelt comments! HUGE. You act like you don't have hearing tonight. They look grim because they know how dire the disease is, then when he finishes they give a big applause.

And the video doesn't lie - he looks right at Biden and says I don't want there to be any confusion and waves his hand exactly like people do when they imply "funny business" between he and Biden and accentuates "WIFE". If Obama admits his joke was meant as light hearted and apologizes (if he doesn't I won't vote for him if he's the nom) for realizing it was truly insensitive, which I don't think he will, then I'll write and inform you of his apology.

[pnwmom]

38. You need to get your hearing checked. Biden got a dutiful round of applause,

but Obama's was far more enthusiastic.

[cboy4]

39. Hey, I wouldn't waste your time arguing with this member.

She is notorious for supporting the opposition when it comes to gay issues.

If any of us takes exception to something we feel crosses the line, you can expect this individual to argue and act as an apologist for the other side.

This is why so many LGBT DUers ignore her nonsense. :pals:

[Divine Discontent]

42. thank you, love

for assuring me as one of the most pro gay and sensible writers on here, that it's a pointless cause. hope you're doing swimmingly, sweet cboy. :blush:

[ecstatic]

46. I will never discuss this issue again on DU, but this is what pisses me off

We live in a country where white Americans turned this nation over to Bush in order to prevent gay marriage. Black Americans overwhelmingly supported the Democratic candidate--the one who would have done more to push equal rights for EVERYONE.

Yes, there are a few vocal homophobic blacks (mainly a select few church groups), but I would venture to say there are far less homophobic blacks than homophobic whites.

So for people like you to continually push the 'blacks are ignorant homophobes' meme, it just goes to show your true RACIST colors and I'm not going to waste another moment responding to your racist and ignorant attacks.

[cboy4]

48. Oh, I see. He's a racist (which I don't believe) yet you go on to say

black people are "FAR LESS" homophobic than white people.

Not just less, but "FAR" less.

You realize this makes you sound like a racist, right?

I understood his point. So, what sort of malfunction are you suffering that makes you incapable of grasping the context?

And I won't even go into all of the cultural expectations that makes homosexuality incompatible with black life, particularly in the inner cities.

Come on now.

[purduejake]

44. Thanks for clearing that up...

I had no idea where she was coming from... I figured she is either anti-gay or she has a thing for Obama. Perhaps both.

[cboy4]

40. It was almost like Obama was out on the playground, needing to

make sure all of his buddies knew he wasn't one of those homos who could have AIDS.

Never mind the fact:

According to the 2000 census, blacks make up approximately 13% of the US population. However, in 2005, blacks accounted for 18,121 (49%) of the estimated 37,331 new HIV/AIDS diagnoses in the United States in the 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting

49 percent!!!!!

And Obama laughs.


http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/resources/factsheets/aa.htm

[Divine Discontent]

43. powerful!

that alone should have had made him remain above the childish laughter from Biden's comments the audience was making, and realize Biden was saying boldly that there was too much shame in the Black community over the fact that the whole country knows, and he couldn't even keep from playing to the crowd for laughs about not wanting to appear gay - PATHETIC.

Thanks for the facts, I will keep them handy. AIDS is so horrible, and I'm so glad they're hopefully making advances as we talk, that will remove the DNA of it from cells - someday a cure will come!

:hug:

[ecstatic]

45. How dare you?

And how ironic that you would make such blanket bigoted statements while criticizing someone else for what you *think* they may have been implying.

Joe Biben makes a very heartfelt case as to why it's wrong for the Black community to quit thinking it's not manly to get a HIV test, because a vast majority in the black community think it's only a gay disease

How the hell do you or Joe Biden know what the "vast majority in the black community think?"

You are basically saying that the majority of blacks in this country are ignorant and stupid.

You need to check yourself and your bigoted beliefs.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. oh good god: it was clearly a joke about he and Biden being a couple

In response to Biden when Biden said that he and Obama got tested. There was nothing homophobic or racist in it at all.

[Enrique]

49. I agree he looks silly here compared to the others

so does Michelle and the audience.

I'm not sure about the significance of it, except maybe a bit of foolishness coming from his young age. I don't see it as any kind of shot at the gay community.