Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

VoterValuesSummit - Only Congress is Bound to Separation of Church & State

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU
 
Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:27 PM
Original message
VoterValuesSummit - Only Congress is Bound to Separation of Church & State
 
Run time: 01:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASJOJREixbU
 
Posted on YouTube: September 19, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: September 20, 2009
By DU Member: Shallah Kali
Views on DU: 1022
 
Right Wing Watch: VVS - Right Wing Understanding of the Separation of Church and State

Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association tells the Values Voter Summit that it is impossible for anyone other than Congress to violate the First Amendment's religious establishment clause.


Valuable Lesson from the Values Voter Summit: Right's Definition of Religious Liberty
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/valuable-lesson-values-voter-summit-rights-definition-religious-liberty


Fischer basically attributed the idea of church-state separation to Adolf Hitler, who he said was the inspiration for the forces of “secular fundamentalism” who are bent on “castrating” the church and bringing America a “bleak, dark, vicious, tyrannical” future. Invoking Hitler is practically commonplace name-calling from the right these days. But it was not the most important or provocative point of his remarks.

Today Fischer went a good bit further than televangelist Pat Robertson, who notably called church-state separation a “lie of the left.” According to Fischer’s interpretation of the First Amendment, here’s what religious liberty means: Congress has the liberty to promote religion in any way, as long as it does not single out one Christian sect or denomination and make it the nation’s official religion. That’s it.

According to Fischer, “the only entity that is restrained by the First Amendment is the Congress of the United States.” Thus, he says, it is “constitutionally impossible” for governors, mayors, city councilmembers, or school administrators to violate the First Amendment. Fischer said the “incorporation doctrine” – the idea that the Fourteenth Amendment applied First Amendment protections against state governments, is the “most egregious” example of judicial activism.

So by his definition, a state legislature could declare itself an officially Christian state. Or an officially Baptist or Mormon state. Presumably any public school, city council or state government could require students to attend Christian worship or profess certain religious belief.

Fischer isn’t the only Religious Right leader who holds this radically extreme definition of religious liberty. In their 2008 book, “Personal Faith, Public Policy,” Religious Right leaders Tony Perkins and Harry Jackson said that a 1961 Supreme Court decision, which held that the state of Maryland could not require applicants for public office to swear that they believe in the existence of God, one of “the major assaults that have been successfully launched against the Christian faith in the last forty to fifty years.”

So, to these prominent Religious Right leaders, preventing a state from demanding that its employees swear to certain religious beliefs is an attack on Christianity. And any court that tries to stop a state from imposing religious beliefs on its citizens is judicial activism.

It’s disturbing to note that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is among those who believe the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment does not apply to the states. In a 2004 concurring opinion, Thomas wrote:

Quite simply, the Establishment Clause is best understood as a federalism provision — it protects state establishments from federal interference but does not protect any individual rights. . . . .
{E}ven assuming that the Establishment Clause precludes the Federal Government from establishing a national religion, it does not follow that the Clause created or protects any individual right. . . . it is more likely that States and only States were the direct beneficiaries. Moreover, incorporation of this putative individual right leads to a particular outcome: It would prohibit precisely what the Establishment Clause was intended to protect — state establishments of religion.


Americans deserve to know whether the parade of top GOP officials who engaged in this weekend’s mutual love-fest with Religious Right leaders have the same narrow, distorted view of the First Amendment.


Right Wing Watch http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

People for the American Way http://www.pfaw.org/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. k/r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. k i c k
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
3.  “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”
appears to be the basis for the separation of Church and State. But we know that these people would never listen to a liberal reform Jewish Rabbi like Jesus ben Joseph.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. I really don't like where this is going
I just googled a little, and it seems that when the Constitution was ratified, some of the states did have state churches -- though the ones that did gave it up by the 1820's. But the real issue is whether the 14th Amendment extended the Bill of Rights to the states -- and the impulse of a lot of these right-wing extremists seems to be to argue that it didn't.

The legal issues are admittedly a bit on the fuzzy side -- but it looks very much as though these guys are going to attempt to revive the old states' rights arguments in hopes of finding some place they can establish the mullocracy of their dreams.

Of course, in the case of the speaker in this video, the argument that any school board or teacher can unilaterally make an "establishment" of religion is just bullshit. But given the way they do these things (like having preachers endorse candidates from the pulpit and defying the federal government to yank their tax-exempt status as a result), I can foresee a series of very nasty confrontations over "establishment" issues. And I don't like that one little bit.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. I was watching some of the speakers on C-SPAN.
Edited on Sun Sep-20-09 05:06 AM by girl gone mad
Everyone in the audience was old and white, just like the teabaggers. They don't get it. The fastest growing religious group in this country is non-believers. Young people in this country are not worried about gay marriage and abortion. They are worried about jobs and the cost of living.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScottLand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. He's absolutely right!
Only Congress is bound by the Constitution to separate church from state. The rest of us are only bound to do so by decency and whatever respect we have for one another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC