Forced Vaccines Refused By Nurses In New York

[Pharaoh]

Run time: 02:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wBwOEsw2I   Posted on YouTube: September 26, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 27, 2009 By DU Member: Pharaoh Views on DU: 6533

 

This year, the New York State Health Department is requiring all health care workers who come into contact with patients to get the flu vaccine, and will also require the H1N1 or swine flu vaccine as well. It's something the department says is for everyone's safety, but a number of workers are concerned about being forced to get the shot. Steve Ference has more on why some hospital workers say the mandate is flat out wrong.
Category: News & Politics

[tabatha]

1. Good for them.

[PM Martin]

2. Good for them.

[truedelphi]

3. Why is their a blackout on the leaked letter that the UK "Mail" focused on?

From Great Britain - all spellings are proper British useage.

Syndrome -- HCB:Things You Should Know --
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease:

Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over
the new flu vaccine



The United Kingdom's "Mail"
Article By Jo Macfarlane

Last updated at 11:05 PM
on 15th August 2009


A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the (British) Government
to senior neurologists in a confidential letter. The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine. GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.

The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications. It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when: More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu. 500 cases of GBS were detected.

The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times. The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with Guillaume Barre Syndrom became clear... The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected. Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.

[Orrex]

5. How many people were vaccinated in 1976 to yield those 500 deaths?

[truedelphi]

19. The thng is, many who suffered with GBS

Had doctors like mine, who refused to beleive that there was any relationship to my getting the vaccine and the fact that my left arm was only in possession to 50% of its mobility after the vaccine.
So it is hard to say that there were 500 or 1500 or 5000 deaths.

[Orrex]

22. That may be true, but you can't base policy on a guess that's 10X the confirmed rate of incidence

So it is hard to say that there were 500 or 1500 or 5000 deaths.

If you embrace that method of reasoning, then you must equally accept that 200 million cases of flu were prevented by the vaccine.

That is, it's hard to say that 10 cases of flu or 50 cases or 200 million were prevented.


Sauce for the goose, after all.

[truedelphi]

24. The 500 deaths were viewed as serious enough that our government STOPPED the vaccine policy

For that reason. So despite the fact that the majority of people in the USA never received an innoculation, and yet even so there was no pandemic, so with all respect, you are the one whose reasoning is a bit off.

We had a government released "Report" of 500 deaths, and no where near the number of flu infectious cases to show any benefit.

In other words, in terms of risk to benefit, it was far too risky to undergo this vaccine shot as compared to any proven benefit.

[Orrex]

26. Then at this point I'd urge you to read Warpy's posts in this thread

Specifically, the part where she points out that the current vaccine is not the 1976 vaccine, so your reasoning isn't relevant, even if you deem it less "off" than mine.

[truedelphi]

30. Nothe current vacine is not the 1976 vaccine.

But more importantly the current vaccine is only a mock up vaccine. In other words, since the pandemic has not occurred, as of yet, the vaccine is not containing any relationship to the virus that will be the pandemic virus. SO it is not really protection.

SO the whole thing is only a ploy.

By the way, my wonderful, sweet and funny other in law got her flu shot nine days ago. She got sick two days later. And now, She is in critical condition and may not live. But hey, at least she didn't question the authorities and if she dies, she will die a real American, and not a subversive like her son, daughter and me.

[Orrex]

33. How old is she? What other health issues was she facing?

I am endlessly amazed at how many anti-vaxers (and pseudoscientific apologists in general) are able to trot out a string of relatives, friends, and acquaintances who've suffered some monstrous complication resulting from conventional medicine, or who've enjoyed some miraculous cure at the hands of alternative medicine. With this in mind, surely you won't object to providing a little more information?

For instance: Where did she get the shot? Was it the H1N1 vaccine, or conventional flu? What was the nature of her illness occurring "two days later?" Why, exactly, is she in critical condition? How is she being treated? And where? It's clear that you identify her vaccination as the proximate cause of her hospitalization; what is your specific basis for this conclusion?

And do you suppose she minds that you're using her as a trump-all gimmick to justify your vaccine fear?

[Why Syzygy]

45. "mock up vaccine"

This is a confusing aspect. According to the AstraZeneca site, their annual flu vaccine already contained H1N1. It was approved in the US in 2003. So why are they making such a show of coming up with a NEW vaccine? Is this a massive dupe on the public? Sort of like the banksters getting their bailouts? A grab for taxpayer money to fund new facilities? I'm open to possible explanations.

Furthermore, Novartis was already testing a vaccine (H1N1) in MARCH 2009!


http://www.astrazeneca.com/media/latest-press-releases/2009/?selectedPage=5
06 January 2009
MedImmune Submits Marketing Authorisation Application in European Union for Intranasal Vaccine to Prevent Seasonal Influenza
AstraZeneca

About LAIV
Each dose of LAIV is formulated to contain three live attenuated influenza virus strains, which are weakened as to not cause illness: Two Type A influenza strains (A/H1N1 and A/H3N2) and one Type B strain. The vaccine strains are selected annually by the World Health Organization (WHO) based on anticipated circulating influenza strains for the upcoming season. The vaccine is sprayed into the nose, rather than by injection as with other licensed influenza vaccines, where it induces protective immunity.

In the U.S., LAIV is marketed under the trade name FluMist® (Influenza Virus Vaccine Live, Intranasal). It was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2003. The vaccine included in the MAA has not been registered in the European Union and is not available outside of the United States.


http://www.inloughborough.com/news/096969/World-first%20swine-flu%20vaccine%20trial%20reveals%20one%20dose%20provides%20/'strong%20immune%20response/'
World-first swine-flu vaccine trial reveals one dose provides 'strong immune response'
Posted on 03/09/09
University of Leicester

Results from the first swine-flu vaccine trials taking place in Leicester reveal a strong immune response after just one dose.

The pilot study, run by the University of Leicester and Leicester Hospitals, was trialled with 100 healthy volunteers, aged between 18 and 50.

Dr Iain Stephenson, who led the trial at the Leicester Royal Infirmary, said: The clinical trial of Novartis MF59-adjuvanted cell-based A (H1N1) vaccine indicates that the swine flu vaccine elicits a strong immune response and is well-tolerated.

[truedelphi]

51. Also, i love the people here on DU who say that the vaccine corporations

Don't make any money.

As of time period Jan-May 2009, the USA government had given the pharmaceutical(s) involved at least two billion dollars. That is on the one hand.

On the other hand, the Federal government doesn't have the manpower needed to thoroughly inspect the laboratories where the vaccines are developed. Thus the last time a major news daily tackled that issue, the pharmaceutical laboratories were given an "F". (San Francisco Chronicle, 2000)

THe labs were dirty, bacteria and other contaminants were rampant, etc.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

6. I remember getting a shot in grade school, it would have been around 1976.

The whole school body was gathered into the gym. They asked for volunteers first, I was first in line. I'm fine, no GBS here.

But, I don't think I'll be first in line this time around.

[Warpy]

7. Any fool can write a letter and this letter is no different

The H1N1 vaccine is not the 1976 vaccine. It is completely unrelated. This flu is not the swine flu--people are giving it to pigs and not the other way around. This vaccine has been in large scale testing for weeks and results have been carefully tablulated, with no more cases of GBS than with any other vaccination.

The antidote to ignorance is knowledge. The antidote to panic is knowledge.

Unfortunately for the writer of this letter, stupid is forever.

Unfortunately for us, he's gaining an audience among people who are too lazy to check things out for themselves.

[Ms. Toad]

11. The author of the letter doesn't say

people are getting the flu from pigs - he is using the name originally given to the virus before it was properly scientifically classified. I see no evidence that merely because the author uses the name by which it was originally known that the author believes that pigs are giving the virus to people.

The author of the letter doesn't say the H1H1 vaccine is the 1976 vaccine. It says it is a similar vaccine. It is - the 1976 strain was an A/H1N1 virus, as is this year's; the vaccinations are thus inherently similar because they are protecting against very similar viruses.

So who's too lazy to check things out for themselves?

[Warpy]

15. you are.

The virus is quite different, the situation is quite different as the species jump never happened in 1976, and the large scale testing is not turning up anything unusual which you'd know if you read anything but antivax scare sites.

[Ms. Toad]

16. I was solely addressing the statements you falsely

attributed to the author. You didn't bother to read the post to which you were responding, any more than you read what I said before you responded with a non-responsive flame.

[LeftishBrit]

38. The United Kingdom's 'Mail' = America's RW talkshows

Don't rely on ANYTHING you read there.

[Why Syzygy]

46. Rochester, NY good enough for you?

http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Mandatory-Flu-Vaccination-Riles-Health-Care/7b8iHICqd0-7j1BQ-IoMLg.cspx

Mandatory Flu Vaccination Riles Health Care Workers – They’ll March

(New York / New Jersey) - New York is requiring some health care workers to get a seasonal flu shot now and the H1N1 shot later- -or lose their jobs. But now, a lawsuit filed in new Jersey may help workers in Rochester.

A lawsuit filed in New Jersey calls the mandatory flu shot unconstitutional, but so far a federal judge has denied an injunction which would halt forced vaccinations in any state while the case moves forward.

"It makes me feel very vulnerable,” said one nurse. “It makes me feel like I'm a guinea pig."
This nurse is like many who are concerned that speaking out will cost her her job.

She has voluntarily taken a flu shot most years, but is concerned that safety has been compromised in the rush to get a workable H1H1 vaccine.

She said, "There are a lot of ingredients that aren't safe. Mercury, formaldehyde, anti freeze…I don't agree with any of those things…and if they say it’s safe, then why are the drug companies immune from any lawsuits related to it?"
(...)

[midnight]

4. Thank you nurses. They truely are the great messengers.

Why this crazy demand to this innoculation. One answer-Money! Follow the trail.

[stray cat]

8. Maybe they can take the next 12 months off without pay to avoid infecting patients

its the immune compromised most likely to die from the illnesses that nurses and doctors transmit. I thought it was a progressive value to protect those who can't protect themselves - it seems that doesn't count if you have to make a sacrifice like getting a shot.

[truedelphi]

20. However, it you get the flu from the vaccine

You can not see any symptoms yet pass the disease on to others. At least that is my understanding of what can occur from a hepatitis vaccine.

So in either case, a nurse would be in danger of infecting patients. In one case, from a vaccine related version of the flu, and in the other from the "real deal" flu.

[AnneD]

41. I work in an urban middle school as a Nurse.....

and I have the immune system of elephant. It would be more likely that I would get ill from the kids than the other way around and it has always been like that way (unless the patient has a weakened immune system). In fact, my first year I maxed out using all my sick days. Now I rarely get sick. How do I keep from passing stuff to the kids....Good hygiene (hand washing between seeing patients and observing a safe distance if the kid looks really sick) and monitoring my own health and staying home if I run a fever or feel really ill.

MEDICAL FOLKS ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET SICK FROM THEIR PATIENTS THAN THE OTHER WAY AROUND-just look at the number of medical folks that died from SARS. For them to turn down a vaccine knowing that they are the population at risk means there has been serious thought to this) and their decision should be respected. They have weighed the risks and benefits and decided it is not worth the risk.

[stray cat]

9. Nurses and doctors also refuse to wash their hands - killing thousands a year

good for them!

[Chemisse]

10. Hmmm, does washing hands pose a potential danger to the nurse?

Nope. But the swine flu shot could. Not a good analogy.

[greiner3]

12. Sorry;

I see that you were not on your high school debating team. By the very definition of working in the health care field as nurses and doctors do exposes them to a very high risk of illnesses and/or death from infection. New York passed a law and if these people do not comply they will lose their jobs. Join the military and you are required to get jabbed many times with highly controversial vaccines. Plan a trip to many places around the globe and you will need several, or more, jabs. Health care workers have needed vaccinated for as long as I can remember so as to both not catch the bug and to not pass it along as they treat the sick. Besides, it's the republicans, fundies and fringe right asshats that are so against vaccination. Oh wait, also that washed up actress/model what's her name.

[Chemisse]

13. No I was not on my high school debating team as a matter of fact

The fact that fundies are anti-vaccine has no effect on me. I am not going to automatically take the opposite opinion just to distinguish myself from them, as you seem to suggest. (Perhaps that's what I missed learning to do when I declined to be on the debate team). I like to look over the information and make up my own mind on issues.

I heartily endorse most vaccines and my children received the needed inoculations right on schedule. But I do like to question authority and when I hear the flu shot being sold like it is the latest snake oil, I get suspicious. Critical thinking means you don't just accept things as fact because somebody told them to you. Or buy into a stance because you 'believe' in it. Or allow a knee-jerk reaction to dictate your opinions.

[Why Syzygy]

47. Like the flu votes republican.

This old saw is now defunct. We're wise on ya. The larger picture is, if we ever expect to defeat our REAL ENEMIES, the global monolithic corporations, we are going to need every willing AMERICAN, even if you don't like their myths! They keep us divided up and fighting amongst ourselves so we don't notice we are slaves. All of us, the right AND the left! A slave rebellion doesn't choose factions within itself. It goes after the boss master. That's why we remain defeated, abused labor, poor and sick!


We are on to your tactics to divide and defeat ourselves. It's not working any more!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=484169&mesg_id=484273

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=484169&mesg_id=484267

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=484169&mesg_id=484403

[MineralMan]

14. Also from the same YouTuber:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MikeHansonArchives&view=playlists

What Really happened At Waco?

Jeff Davis Exposes The New World Order

Children of The State
This lecture by Alan Scholl exposes the shocking intrusion upon parental rights by government at nearly all levels. Learn how God-given rights and authority of parents are giving way to a "global village" socialist mentality and what you can do. Will you allow "The State" to become the parents of your children? Produced in 2000 by The John Birch Society.

But Wait...There's More! Hit the link.

This is a valid source?

[truedelphi]

21. One of those most adamantly opposed to the massacre at Waco was none other

Than John Conyers, Democratic Representative from Michigan. His hearings were among the harder hitting of the inquiries into this tremendous failure of law enforcement.

But then, not all Dems on this board care for John Conyers. I guess you could be one of those.

[Blue_Tires]

34. lol at that!

tells me all i need to know about the 'source'

[Why Syzygy]

49. How very liberal of you.

Whatever the RIGHT wing is doing, do the OPPOSITE!

That'll teach 'em!

What a pathetic excuse for making decisions.

[Why Syzygy]

48. You need to hear it again???

Health issues don't know anything about partisanship. Surely YOU realize that some Democrats hold opinions that differ from the party line? Surely you don't expect us all to stick with Democratic approved materials for every piece of information we consider (like the JWs do)? That would be an ideal situation. Can't be done.

The highest ranking Democrats don't want to pursue war criminals. They don't want to get out of pointless wars. They don't want to rescind the Patriot Act or reestablish Habeas Corpus or put an end to illegal snooping. Many of them don't even want universal health care!

You go right ahead and wrap yourself in the party banner. Some of us will go wherever the truth is.

(duplicate)

[my future me]

17. Hospital workers need the vaccine

They are generally the first contact for any epidemic. In order to curtail the spread of a deadly virus, they need to be vaccinated. Anti-vax people are honestly paranoid. No serious side-effects have been announced from any round of human testing.

[Old Time Pagan]

25. If we follow your logic and statement perhaps you can explain to me

why an agreement has been arranged between the feds and the vaccine manufacturers that prohibits any lawsuits regarding any and all side effects from the vaccine?

If this stuff is so innocuous and the anti-vax people are just paranoid then why was that provision put in place?

[my future me]

29. Please . .

The provision was probably put in place as a safeguard for companies willing to mass produce an emergency vaccine for an emerging pandemic. Without such a safeguard, any company willing to produce such a hastily created, tested, and distrubuted vaccine would be stupid and mortgaging their entire company for the public good, i.e. not likely to happen. Therefore, if such a situation arose, then no companies would help the government to produce a vaccine that would help stop a pandemic.

I've only posted a couple of times on this forum, but I've lurked for much longer. It does seem, however, that for such a progressive forum there seems to be a large number of anti-science posters (GMOs and Anti-vax). Standard vaccines produced today are thoroughly tested prior to mass distribution.

[Old Time Pagan]

40. There is a world of difference between

actual observational and experimental science and the perversion the corporate world has turned "science" into for profit regardless of the consequences.

This may be a revelation for you but many real "scientists" have done research, analyzed their data and published results that show that GMOs are a disaster waiting to happen. Guess what happens to those papers and results....wait for it.....Monsanto squashes that information and then does everything in its power to discredit and run out of the field any scientists who threaten their profit and power base.

Paranoid? Nope...just the facts.

[my future me]

43. Perhaps you think that I am talking out of my ass . . .

but you are trying to conflate eight different issues here. If you want to argue that there is a danger allowing companies to copyright DNA sequences, then I will agree with you. If you want to argue that it is stupid for companies to hold methodology secret and in return retard scientific advancement, then I will agree with you. If you want to argue that it is stupid for the government to trust private enterprise to dutifully mass produce vaccines at a moments notice, than I will agree with you. You, however, are trying to claim that there is some huge conspiracy to produce faulty vaccines, and then what? Profit? Turn an entire genration of people into zombies? Autism? Mind Control? In order for a conspiracy to make sense, it has to have some kind of monetary or idealogical motive that cannot be acheived through ordinary means. In this regard there is no ulterior motive that makes any logical sense. Vaccines have dangers, but those dangers are outweighed by the good that they bring. Vaccines have eliminated Mumps, Polio, and Small Pox. Was that a huge conspiracy?

Instead of being blinded by fear, why don't you try to have a reasoned discussion about the subject. There is a danger in GMOs. There are dangers in vaccinations. There are also dangers in driving cars, wind energy, and the internet. Instead of labeling them threats and trying to throw them out, discuss the dangers and propose ways to make each safer or better.

As an aside, when you discussed GMOs you placed the pressure of Mosanto or any corporation on the wrong end of the process. They do not focus on trying to "squash" studies after they are made. They focus on refusing studies grant money. The problem in science is not big corporations trying to throw out data, it's a funding issue. You frequetly have people doling out grant money on topics that they are not familiar with. So a study on a unicellular marine creature that no one has ever heard of may be more important than another ethanol study, however it is refused grant money due to a lack of perceived benefit. This problem is only compounded when that small unicellular study has to go against all departments in an university. It's further compounded when that university receives money from corporations for a specific area of science, say Pharmacy or Aeronautics, then most grant money is devoted to that field.

[Old Time Pagan]

50. I'm not going to get in to a long drawn out discussion with you

because it's harvest season and things are a little tight time wise.

Just a couple of things to think about. I don't know how old you are but in my 57 years on the planet things have changed considerably. Back when the vaccines against mumps, polio and smallpox were developed medicine was not a giant money making scheme. Diseases were not being created so that people could get hooked on pharmaceuticals for the rest of their lives. Prescription drugs were not advertised on TV so people could go tell their doctors what drugs they needed etc., etc.

As to being "blinded by fear", you have no idea the dangers involved in GMOs. What makes it even better is that there is no data that shows that GMOs are more productive than conventional organisms so we're being forced to take those risks with no positive return. You're being bullshitted by the big corps and you're buying it.

And yes there is a problem with big corporations "trying to throw out data." Here is one instance where Monsanto funded the work and when the data showed a problem they suppressed the results for 8 years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x229295

I really am running out of patience with people like you. With the Internet anyone can research just about any topic. It would seem you are more comfortable believing that the very entities and individuals that are currently running this country into the ground financially for their own personal financial gain are actually concerned about making sure that their products are safe and wholesome.

Apparently you are unaware of the numerous instances where companies have chosen to leave an unsafe product available to the public because the cost of fixing the problem would be greater than paying the judgments on the legal actions brought on behalf of individuals injured or killed by the product.

You might want to stop throwing around terms like "paranoid" and "blinded by fear" until you do a little research of your own and find out just what is being done to all of us in the blind pursuit of profit.

[truedelphi]

52. May I offer you a small but deserved

:toast:

(In memory of the once stellar reputation of Andrew Wakefield. Whose work was such that an entire panel to investigate vaccines was createdhere in the US Senate. And whose work WAS duplciated by other scientists. But now those scientists have been intimidated into changing their story. So that the vaccine manufactureres can live on unaffected. And all Wakefield wanted was to spare kids the trauma of having more than one vaccine shot at a time enter their system!)

[midnight]

37. Because they already know it is bad stuff and they are rushing

this through so we can't ask questions. I only wish these law makers were so concerned about access to medical treatment and would rush that through.

[AnneD]

18. They tried to pull that shit on health care workers with Small Pox vaccines ......

(the bio terrorism scare) forget that there was a horrible shortage of DPT vaccines nation wide for kids at the time. We were so low on Tetanus that only infants got their first doses and ER's had some doses for emergencies. When I read the fine print on the small pox disclaimer, I saw that the Department of Defense was giving it, and once you took it you became a first responder and the DOD could yank you to any out break area, no time limit. Now I had the inoculation when I was young so I should have had life long immunity, but they said I had to take it again.

They initially offered no compensation if you had an adverse reaction and everyone said an adverse reaction was impossible-based on all the shots given to children. Well low and behold, older people with hidden heart problems began dieing after receiving the vaccine. Docs and Nurses refused -flat out. The hoopla gradually died down. I have had heart problems and had I gotten the shot-I would probably died. Seems I forgot what they finally came up with for compensation but it was not even close to what I could make in the 10 years I had left to raise my daughter. I have been skeptical of government issued mandates since then.

I greatly encourage children to be vaccinated against childhood disease, but then swine flu vaccine is known to have caused Guillaume Barre syndrome in the past and health care workers should be allowed to have informed consent just like anyone else. I don't want to be a guinea pig.

[truedelphi]

28. Yeah, isn't it weird that one of the big selling points

Of some of these vaccines is that all you need to do is to have that one shot and you have life long immunity.

But then - OOPS! no we were wrong, you don't have life long immunity - you have to get it again...

My problem is two fold

ONE) I had GBS after my innoculation for swine flu in the seventies. I know know that my immune system doesn't handle vaccines the way it should - so I don't get them. And I don't get sick either!
TWO: I have done so much research on so many different types of products - everything from ROundUp, the herbicide, to MTBE, and I have come to realize that the the bureaucrats that are in charge of approving these things are either so dim witted (for the most ppart) or else so corrupt if not dim witted.

I just re- watched the old "60 Minutes" segment about those vaccine victims who were injured from the shot in the seventies. Get this - the scientific community signed off on that vaccination program by saying that the shot in question had been fully examined and was approved.

Then they went ahead and issued vaccines that were not of that type! Just classic bait and switch in terms of safety! (Monsanto did a similar thing regarding its RoundUp formula - it knew that the main way injury and harm would come to any mammal in contact with the glyphosate in the product would be through its respiratory system ingestion of the glyphosate - so they tested animals who had eaten the glyphosate!! Always a bait and switch.)

[Why Syzygy]

55. I might be able to

cut them a little slack if they didn't enforce such a draconian gag order on natural alternatives.
They don't want anyone to know how to support their own immune systems or use alternative therapies to treat illness.

When someone is afraid of honest competition, that should set up the alarm right then.

[fubarsnafu]

23. Good for them!

I hope more and more say NO to this vaccine b/c of all the reasons stated.

[SheilaT]

27. I have a cousin who is a nurse in NY and she's q

told me she won't get the vaccine.

I work in a hospital (patient registration) and there's a notice on our bulletin board about they might require us to get the flu shot or have to wear a face mask if in contact with patients. I have no intention of getting a flu shot, and I also understand that face masks are mostly cosmetic and do very little to prevent spread of disease.

This H1N1 flu is being hyped as if it's the Black Death, when in reality it's an extremely mild flu that doesn't seem especially infectious and has a very low mortality rate.

I just wish this kind of hype were attached to real dangers out there, such as smoking (400,000 die each year) or the complications of obesity or drunk driving and so on. Although I suppose that most people would stay home, terrified of everything if that were to happen.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

36. +1

[Grinchie]

32. No vaccines for me.

I'm a true believer in health maintenance through good nutrition and hygiene. It's proven, effective, and doesn't rely on the Germ Theory, which only partially explains diseases and pathology, otherwise, we would have had a cure for all illness by now.

No, the Germ Theory was a marketing coup, paid for by the supporters of Pasteur, drug companies and the Monomorphists, who insists that microorganisms do not adapt to changing living conditions within the body, yet tacitly acknowledge the transformation of a liver fluke into several different types during it lifespan, or the caterpillar into the butterfly. Nor do the monomorphists believe in horizontal gene transfer between bacteria of differant type, or even acknowledge that yeast and fungi and bacteria can form different organisms at different time, as they dine on their Mushroom tartar.

If the state requires mandatory shots, then people need to quit. It's as simple as that.

Personally, those that make the decision for mandatory shot need to provide the leadership, and take the shots now to show their confidence. Unfortunately, a shot of distilled water is not the same as a shot of thimerosol preserved animal and bacterial proteins. Noone has actually come out and said that this vaccine does not contain Thimerosol, other than the pro Vaccine chest thumpers here on DU as far as I can tell.

[midnight]

39. Can you imagine why they would use nurses as test subjects for this.

[truedelphi]

53. Scary, isn't it?

Very very scary. Welcome to our Orwellian health care system.

Where no, our government doesn't have the money to give us Universal Health Care, but it does have the power to ruin so many lives.

[my future me]

35. This is a general response to all anti-vax people on the board

I posted this response 5 months ago on a different board. It was in response to Dr. Ron Paul commenting on how the H1N1 "scare" was a media/government conspiracy by Obama to try and pass healthcare.

"I'll try and make this as simple and concise as possible:

1) The media is blowing this out of proportion, but they blow everything out of proportion. We have a sensational media, and it is pretty apparent that everybody recognizes that. The media focuses on a few headlines per day, and then they move on to something new.

2) Just because the media blows a story out of proportion does not eliminate any and all concern you should have for the subject. For example, if your local media begins a two-week news cycle about drunk driving, and they create flashy graphics, inflated statistics, and show horribly mangled wrecks. It does not mean that you shouldn't be concerned at all about drunk driving. Drunk driving still exists and it is still dangerous.

3) Please don't take medical advice from a doctor that does not believe in evolution. If you don't understand the nature of DNA (or RNA), it is very unlikely that you could possibly be knowledgeable about viruses.

4) Flu viruses that arise in different species, such as birds or pigs, are a threat to humans. Our immune systems, frankly, do not know how to handle them. They essentially trigger an "all-in" response or cytokine cascade. The immune system's response to the foreign virus is what causes death, generally in healthy hosts between 15 and 45. Most common flu strains only kill the sick, the old, and the young.

5) Flu viruses are seasonal. They have a small outbreak in the spring followed by a remission in the summer months. Then, it reemerges in the fall. So in all likely hood, we will not hear much about the swine flu during the summer months. This does not, however, mean that swine flu was either eliminated or was a non-threat.

6) Global pandemics are still a real threat. Whether or not this particular strain of swine flue actually wreaks havoc upon the human population, it does not lessen the threat of the next possible outbreak, so it is wise just to stay vigilant and aware of any foreign strains of influenza."

[truedelphi]

54. Your points, individually and of themselves are valid.

But you need to realize that the scientists in the Czech labs this year discovered that one of the major European labs, Baxter Laboratories, was shipping that nation flu vaccine contaminated with live flu viruses. However, there is no quarantine in effect against material created by Baxter. They were given a free pass.

Also, those of us who have understood the history of what happened back in 1976 are very afraid. At that point in time, the government came out and had the labs certify that the vaccine that was about to be used was of a certain type and had been thoroughly examined. So when you got the pamphlet at the time of your inoculation, you were given much in the way of assurance. HOWEVER -the vaccines that most of us received at that time were of a different TYPE! So then it should not be surprising that there were people who fell ill with GBS. Government and pharmaceutical assurances are not worth the piece of paper they are written on.

In our country, the quality and over all state of the labs producing the vaccine material is such that in 2000 when the SF Chronicle ran a several day expose on this issue, the labs got an "F". Bacteria and other contaminants abounded in the labs, and in the vaccine material themselves! Funny thing, our government has plenty of money to pay for vaccine development, but not the money to actually employ people to inspect the labs. (Can we chorus in to the phrase of "Revolving doors between industry and government positions, Boys and Girls"?)

So if you are in the business of producing vaccine material, you don't need to worry your pretty lil head about too many inspections - those are few and far between because of the under-staffing.

And perhaps most importantly - as of this moment, there is no "Pandemic." So that no vaccine out there can protect you from that pandemic. After the pandemic begins, then and only then could a vaccine be developed that would offer the protection.

[earth mom]

42. I LOVE THIS! Nurses are NOT anti science-they just have common sense & know that the pharma giants

are pushing shit that actually can harm some people!

Notice I did not say "that harms everyone".

One size does NOT fit all.

And that's what the pharma giants are choosing to ignore because of greed.

Go Nurses! :applause:

[truedelphi]

44. Thanks for pointing that out.

One size should not fit all.

Almost any time I get a prescription, I use half the amount - cut the pill in half etc. If it is not something I am familiar with, I ask the pharmacist first of course - some anitbiotics have to be taken at full strength and those I do according to directions.

But Big Pharma considers us all alike.