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Debunking Christian Apologetics: Prophecy

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:29 AM
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Debunking Christian Apologetics: Prophecy
 
Run time: 03:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuEbFFdKckw
 
Posted on YouTube: September 28, 2009
By YouTube Member:
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Posted on DU: September 29, 2009
By DU Member: Joanne98
Views on DU: 976
 



DeistPaladin
September 27, 2009



http://www.godvsthebible.com Behold, the great prophet Scott Adams will tell me through my Dilbert monthly calendar about something that will happen at work this coming month...
http://www.godvsthebible.com

Behold, the great prophet Scott Adams will tell me through my Dilbert monthly calendar about something that will happen at work this coming month...
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. This really doesn't debunk anything. It's simply an extended rant about disbelief.
I'll never understand this fixation.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not exactly.
It is about the nuttiness of believing prophecy because you can make any vague statement about some undetermined future event and sometime in the future it will appear to match some event.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm assuming that the video is part of a series.
I agree about prophecy being goofy, but the video merely criticizes it.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. It is a series. I found it last week and started watching.
There are some interesting bits in the series, like the different timelines of jesus's life.
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starmister Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Prophecy is not the same as Prediction
The problem with modern Christian hardcore believers is that they incorrectly equate prophecy with scientific prediction (okay, they may really believe it's literally better than science). The prophets of the Bible (which we distinguish as Major and Minor prophets of the 'Old Testament') spoke of God's immediate terms of judgment and redemption with a contemporary (to their own time) focus, and were written and read for the chastisement and encouragement of those they knew as God's living people (which varied in extent over time). The prophets tended to reside in communities external to the main royal hubs, to retain objectivity, to keep history, and at times to courageously attempt to call out when the ruling family, tribal leaders, judges and people deviate from God's ways. At which point they warned of the immediate implications and consequences to their relationship with God and the nations around them. It's highly doubtful that these prophets had any idea people would try to construe their strong words as applicable in an era 3000 years into their future. When you read the passages, you should get the sense that whatever is referenced is already in motion, but also having open ended outcomes...see below for why. Most of what was assembled as the 'Old Testament' was pulled together around 700 BC during a captivity phase. One can have a fun time going through the Genesis, Judges, Kings and Chronicles finding names of scrolls that weren't included in the 'final' version of the Bible from that time.

This is the real baffler. Hebrew, as a language for rendering Divine Prophetic Truth, is not well suited for writing predictions or anything scientific or mathematical. It is very peculiar, especially for works purported to have been written predictively thousands of years into the future, for lacking a Future tense. It has two tenses, one tense for the 'open unfolding and open-ended' present and one for the 'it's all done and over with" past. The rest of the grammar is basically degree of emphasis, gender, active/passive, number. In contrast, the Bibilical Greek (New Testament 'Koine' or 'common' Greek), can dance all sorts of angles around time with it's rich range of 27 different tenses and the Greek language was used to create the foundations of math, geometry, and measured sciences upon which Western culture depends.

what happens when trying to translate Hebrew to Greek? Well, it's not easy. Generations of translators (70?) worked on the Septuagint in Alexandria, an amazing but imperfect achievement, influenced by he era's Platonism and Aristotle, etc. The Septuagint, the most commonly used translation of the 'Old Testament' Bible of the 1st Century (and for Centuries after), was a translation from Hebrew to Greek...and, all 27 tenses of Greek somehow got used. It took nearly all of the three Centuries to complete the Septuagint (name reflects the work of 70 scholars), before Jesus preached from it, and Jesus often finding rather unique interpretations applying directly to the present assembled people. The fun of cultural and linguistic translation again occurred, centuries later, in trying to compress and render subtile Greek (27 tenses) into Latin, a language with only 6 tenses (Present, Imperfect, Future, Perfect, Pluperfect, Future Perfect), which gave the Holy Roman Empire and civilization The Vulgate version of the Bible.

Just to drive the rigid 66 books of the Bible crowd nuts, that Septuagint of Jesus day included books now considered, to various degrees, non-canonical or 'Apocryphal', such as Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom of Jesus Sirach, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremy (in the Vulgate this is chapter 6 of Baruch), additions to Daniel (The Prayer of Azarias, Sosanna and Bel and the Dragon), additions to Esther, Maccabees (1-4), 1 Esdras, and Psalm 151, and, in some versions Odes and the Prayer of Manasses. Bel and the Dragon is a good bedtime story, by the way, that seems to show how to debunk false supernatural claims.
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