Rudy's 9/11 Failures of Leadership Exposed by Fire Fighters

[dogday]

Run time: 13:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCYEEO-58I   Posted on YouTube: July 10, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: July 11, 2007 By DU Member: dogday Views on DU: 3058

 
This video speaks for itself...

[Nimrod2005]

1. Let me be the first to K&R!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I hope this video gets out to ALL folks

who think Guliani was a great mayor.

[speedoo]

3. Second!

Anything that tells the truth about Rudy is worth a K&R.

[whistle]

4. kick

[subsuelo]

5. interesting video

Why was a command issued to get out of the towers? Why would anyone think the towers were going to be demolished?

[PoconoPragmatist]

26. ....

They weren't demolished. They collapsed. Demolished implies purposeful, controlled demolition. That isn't what happened here.

BUT...anyone with a basic knowledge of architecture, and the way these buildings were built (and presumably the NYFD would have all that information) the fact is that the steel support girders abvoe the 60th floor were not insulated with asbestos insulation, as were the steel support girders on lower floors.

The intense heat of the burning jet fuel caused the support girders to weaken, and finally, to collapse. what happened next was a "pancake" effect, as story after story crashed down on top of one another. Not able to support that weight, the other support girders also gave, and that, basically, is what happened.

Presumably, the Fire Chief would have this basic knowledge of the architecture of the building...and sufficient education in engineering to know exactly what was going to happen...and, presumably, armed with such knowledge, it would make perfect sense to issue an evacuation warning.

[LouDawg]

37. Collapsed???

BUT: A building collapses when demolished. Your semantics are unsound and you play fast with the facts and you indeed have basic and rudimentary knowledge of architecture.

Fact: In the history of firefighting, never has a steel building collapsed because of fire "weakening" the steel support girders be they covered with asbestos or not. Steel doesn't bend or melt at the temperatures created in building fires. Look at the planes hitting the tower. That big ball of fire is fuel, thus the fuel was for the most part exhausted in the original hit. Look at the colour of the flames in the fire. Orange and smoke, which is considered a low temperature fire.

Fact: Pancake effect, hmm go to Denny's and order a stack of pancakes. Now look at the films of the "collapse" and remains of the building. Do you see a resemblance? Didn't think so. What you see is the complete pulverizations of the steel, glass, stone, etc.... If the theory that the building pancaked because of the weakened supports (by the way they were bolted and riveted with thousands of steel rivets) is to be believed, what happened to the 47 6" steel center core columns; nothing is pancaking on it, yet they literally dissolved?? And if they indeed "pancaked" there would be 100 plus stories of floors stacked upon each other, but there wasn't.

Fact: There was no resistance when the building collapsed; 120 stories fell in 10 seconds, which mean they were in free fall. If they are pancaking, as in your belief and fell on each other, weakened by the heat, there would have been resistance as the top falls toward the bottom and collects the next floors on the way. Interesting note that if the fires were on the 70th to 80th floors and the floors from the 60th to 1st were clear of fire, how did their steel girders get weakened? They would have certainly held on for a bit before eventually collapsing from the weight. Didn't happen.

These towers collapsed by an intended demolition, as was number 7 period (which was a classic steel framed, brick and mortar 47 story building that have never collapsed because of fire in recorded history as well).

If you want to believe in weakened steel and pancakes or in magic bullets, I understand because the truth is far scarier than Bin Laden and Al-Quaida.

[PoconoPragmatist]

39. Just WHAT, Exactly, Are You Implying?!!?

Are you implying that the fire chief himself, knew the buildings were going to be demolished, and thus, ordered his men out?
As much as I love a good conspiracy theory....they tend to get unweildy when too many are involved in said conspiracy. Too many people involved, and the leak has to happen somewhere...and it hasn't. all we have is conspiracy theory.

What I stated above is what I gleaned directly from the 9/11 Commission's report. Are you going to tell me that they were in on it, too?

As much as I want to believe a conspiracy theory (because I honestly hate Bush that bad, and would put nothing past him) this is just too unweildy to stand.

Do I think Bush knew? Yes. Do I think he could have prevented it? Yes. Do I think he went and deliberately murdered 3,000 Americans?? No. I do believe 3,000 Americans lost their lives because Bush failed to act in a proper manner to information he knew, or should have known...and that is a dereliction of duty...but it is not murder.

P.S. In a similar way, the firefighter's radio problem not being addressed by Guiliani is, also, a dereliction of duty. It was his job, as mayor, to delegate someone to address the issue. He didn't.

[subsuelo]

44. Honestly

The official conspiracy story told to us by the Bush Gang is much whackier than most conspiracy theories I've heard.

[lumpy]

6. Good God, I hope this information gets out to the

general public. I did not know about this and I wonder how many other people are not aware of what went on. I did not know that Rudy G. blamed the firefighters for not evacuating the building. If this was presented for all to see he would not have a chance of winning any public office.

[speedoo]

7. Another kick. nt

[ooglymoogly]

8. Big rec for the real patriots of our dying democracy.

[DinahMoeHum]

9. FYI, one of the "talking heads", . .Al Regenhard. . .

is the husband of Sally Regenhard, co-founder of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign.

They lost their son, probie firefighter Christian Michael Regenhard on 9/11.

www.skyscrapersafety.org

Believe me, between them and the "Jersey Girls" and the FDNY, they'll be on "Fruity Rudy"
like shit on stink throughout his campaign.

:grr:

[vanramp]

10. Swift boat veterans ring a bell?

Oh come on...This has Swift Boat written all over it...Was the WTC really 'Bombed' by Al Q in 1993!!! Are they seriously blaming Guilliani for dodgy Radios and only discovering they were DODGY as towers crimbled around them? Do we expect our mayors to personally inspect the equipment, this is ludicrous... I loathe Guilliani and the Republican party in general but this is nonsense...Message to our brave firefighters in New York...Check your equipment once in a while.

[defendandprotect]

16. Giuliani "Swift Boated" the Firemen and the City --

In 1993, we can only presume that it was the PNAC agenda being put in place . . .
but their plans didn't work. The whole 1993 story was garbage. Plus FBI and other investigators -- like this time -- had been pulled off the "suspects."

In 2001, we see the same thing -- PNAC neo-cons at work -- unbelieve cover story.
Various officials in government have come out to say that Cheney was in charge of 9/11.
NORAD had to have been given a "stand down" order . . . that was Cheney.

The White House thugs spent months and months ignoring intelligence to the point where the United Nations had to send someone to the White House and our intelligence agencies to ensure that they were RETOLD of the volumes of intelligence which suggested an imminent attack on the US.

Hijackers names -- attacks on skyscrapers --
And what the murderers in the White House did was ignore it all . . .

in order to get themselves into the Middle East and the OIL.

On 9/11/01, the United States was "Swift Boated" by George Bush and Cheney.

[PoconoPragmatist]

27. Nope.

First...on Feb 26, 1993...the WTC was bombed by means of a Ryder truck in the underground parking. Five people died that day. The blast was found to have been masterminded by Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a blind Muslim cleric living in New Jersey...and carried out by members of his sect, which was later determined to have had ties with Al-Qaeda.

Second...Guiliani was apparently repeatedly told of the radio problem, and apparently chose to do nothing but award a no-bid contract to some buddies of his in the radio business...with no actual concern if these radios met the needs of the firefighters...which apparently they did not.

No, we do not expect the mayor to PERSONALLY INSPECT the equipment. A mayor's job is to DELEGATE these things to be done. Mayor Guiliani failed to insure that the proper testing was done, failed to DELEGATE the task to anyone, apparently...and failed to supply firefighters with equipment suited to their needs in spite of numerous requests from firefighters.

Again...the buck stops at the top. guiliani is responsible, because it is his job to be responsible...to DELEGATE authority, to insure that the needs of the city are met.

Asking if we expect the mayor to personally inspect the radios is like asking if we expect the mayor to personally write every parking ticket in the city of New York!! That is ridiculous, and you know it. OBVIOUSLY...something of that nature is a job which the mayor would DELEGATE to someone...and make sure it got done.

Where the mayor failed was in making sure that the firefighters had the equipment they needed. He FAILED TO DELEGATE AUTHORITY TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE FIREFIGHTERS.

[durrrty libby]

29. FYI The truth does not fall in the category of Swift Boat.

Firefighters have been complaining about Rudy's rotten

leadership since 9/11. This is not new. Did you just wake up from a coma?

[Le Taz Hot]

30. I wonder what Lyndon

LaRouche is doing these days?

Anyway, very powerful video. I hope everyone in the nation gets to see this one.

[Tab]

11. They who live by the Swift Boat

Shall die by the Swift Boat

[Pyrzqxgl]

41. Seems to me the Swift Boat ads worked very well for Republicans

and turn about i certainly fair play

[antiimperialist]

12. Message to the infiltrates who compare Firefighters with Swiftboaters

The Swiftboat lies have been debunked in their entirety, and one of them even pretended to have been Kerry's doctor who attended his purple heart wound, when in fact records say he was not there that day.

Now please before you talk, debunk the claims presented in this video. That's if you watched the video at all.

[vanramp]

13. Just keps going and going and going

I watched the video and also believe Rudy is a scumbag... I just don't 'buy' that he is responsible for 'dodgy' radios... The 'cast' in this presentation do not present firefighters as our greatest guardians.Be serious...BTW the cops seemed to have checked their batteries. It's alame politically motivated video, weak and we can do a lot better than this..It looks like something FOX would put together.

[antiimperialist]

15. The radios failed in '93, and Rudy knew it

yet he did nothing. He's supposed to be a great leader and savior. Even the 9-11 commission mentions the defective radios.
And by the way, who told you there was a "battery" problem? It was a compatibility problem.

[Matilda]

18. The facts as I understand them from the video are

1. That the firefighters had been complaining about radios that didn't function since 1993 (the
year that Giuliani took office), but they were not replaced until 2000 - seven years.

2. That when the radios were replaced, the job wasn't put out to tender, but just given to a firm
(presumably known to Giuliani - that's how these things are done), and no testing was done on the
radios before they were issued to the firefighters.

3. That the new radios also malfunctioned - they could pick up and transmit to areas miles away,
but were useless in close proximity to headquarters.

That doesn't translate to a few firefighters with dodgy batteries, so I wonder how you can make such
an assumption. And the fact that the police radios worked seems to indicate that they had different
radios.

I have no brief for or against Giuliani; I just watched the video in a disinterested way, and it
seems to me there's a case to answer.

[vanramp]

22. I do agree..Tho' not entirely

I agree with all your points, the only problem with the gist/thrust of this video is that *they* blame a Mayor when they should be blaming the chap who petitioned the company that supplied the equipment and the chap responsible for the firemens well being (Think they call it a Chief and a union, ya' know the folk behind this numbskull video). I for the life of me can't fathom how anyone would expect a MAYOR to inspect and be responsible for equipment?/ Typical day at a Mayors offfice ' Hey Rudy, can you come down to sanitation dept in the morning, we need a once over on the latex gloves *you* personally..ordered... ROTFLMAO

[antiimperialist]

32. You are comparing latex gloves to radios at a time of emergency

Not similar, my friend. Your case is weak.

[vanramp]

14. Recount

BTW the swift boaters got Bush elected... Debunked to you and I and most mercury free brains but alas...

[antiimperialist]

20. You are not a friend of logic, are you?

What does the fact that Swiftboat smear helped Bush get elected have to do with its truthfulness?
That defies logic. Are you saying that the veracity of the claims in this video can only be analyzed after Giuliani wins or loses an election? Are you saying that, Giuliani loss=firefighters claims true, and Giuliani win=firefighters claims false?

Did you consider the fact that the media rolled over for Bush in '04, refusing to extensively cover Bush's national guard AWOL but spending a lot of time in this Swiftboat smear?

Weird thinking.

[vanramp]

23. Logic bored

The point being the Swift boat campaign was very effective and this firefighter video reminds me of it... I didn't mention truthfullness to the swift boat grabage and I don't attach untruthfullness to this film, poorly framed and designed to score just as the Swift boat film, yes, it's just as warped and absurd,as bad as and no better...There is NO truth to blaming a mayor for dodgy equipment..He gave them NEW radios..Blame the manufacturers/Chief/Union/City dept but come on, the mayor might have a few other things on his mind... The Fire dept failed their own from what I can see from this video,... A bad workman always blames his tools... THEY SHOULD HAVE DEMANDED better equipment..It's not like they are drafted.

[antiimperialist]

33. Being new doesn't make something good

Would you brush your teeth with a brand new dildo? no. you would probably perform other tasks with that dildo in an efficient manner; but not brushing your teeth, because a dildo is incompatible with said task.
Firefighters were using VHF frequency. Police was using UHF frequency.

[freefall]

35. You are so silly. And also seem to be typically Republican in that

you don't want to blame the guy at the top for anything -- be it a CEO for safety violations on a factory floor or a Mayor for poorly overseeing the safety of city employees. I'll bet you don't even think Bush and Rumsfeld should be held responsible for sending ill-equipped soldiers into battle.

If the dodgy radios were discovered the month before the emergency occurred, you might have a point, in that case the guy in charge might not have time to remedy a bad situation, but they weren't. The dodgy radios were known about years earlier and the Mayor Halliburtoned replacement of those radios and when the new radios turn out to be just as dodgy because of the Halliburtoning you want to say the firefighters were responsible. If the Mayor had followed the legal procedures for contracting and the common sense business procedures for testing equipment before purchase the radio problems wouldn't have occurred and over 100 firefighters would have had a chance to live. Such silliness your points.

Peace,

freefall

[defendandprotect]

17. Video is tremendous . . . this story has to be heard by every American --

[vanramp]

19. Prank

The battery reference was intended (albeit bad taste) humor... I still for the life of me, don't quite understand how in the hell Rudy A mayor of the biggest and most difficult city to administer, was supposed to *check* the compatibility of RADIOS!!! (He like, has/had a city to run, rather a big city, an no disrespect but an dodgy radio is hardly top o' the list)..Didn't these morons *think* to check and ensure their radios worked? This is lame... The Fire Chief is to blame and the union too... P.S.
This is a prank right?

[antiimperialist]

21. The firefightgers already knew it. Giuliani ignored it

Like I said, Giuliani didn't have to check the compatibility, because he already knew.
Harold A. Schaitberger, general president of the firefighters’ association, said in a NY Times piece that “Everyone knew they needed a better system, and he didn’t get it done.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/us/politics/14rudy.html?ex=1331524800&en=a122c24719fed18b&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
So stop repeating the myth firefighters did not check for incompatibility. Giuliani showed poor leadership.

[vanramp]

24. My final word

I do hear you and understand you and am actually on your side. But i do see this is pure evil in as much as it's designed purely to injure...Did you expect Rudy to nip down to the hardwar store/Fry's/Compo USA/Best buy and personally purchase the Radios? C'mon..This is a waste of tiome and makes us as bad as the Rove scum.

[defendandprotect]

28. Yeah, like we expect Bush to know about what equipment our soldiers need !!!!

Your thinking on Giuliani is naive --
He probably gave a contract to cronies --
and he set up control HQs in the WTC which had only been attacked a few years before!!!
While the Police Dept was telling him NOT to do this????

You're alibing for guy who was probably in on the 9/11 deal with Bushco.

[antiimperialist]

31. Is that another joke? Or another strawman?

What makes you think that I wanted Giuliani to "personally" go to Radio shack and buy the radios? Why would he have to go himself?
First you pretended the problem was with the batteries (which is was not). Now you pretend the problem is that we wanted Giuliani to go personally to radio shack or another electronics store.

Weird.

[pauldp]

36. Yo! This video is NOT just about radios.

Giuliani allowed firefighters remains to be scooped and dumped into Fresh Kills Landfill
where they remain today. After the Swiss Bank Gold was retrieved it was full steam ahead
with scoop and dump, as per Rudy, despite strong protests by firefighters.

[LouDawg]

38. Final word??

Your final word, sounds like you are "ducking and covering" Certainly not the Repugnican thing to do no? Your attempt at humour is poor, insulting and contemptible.

Consider the following:

1. The size of the purchase: There are 11, 400 firefighters, taking a reasonable percent, say 50, of them will need radios. We are looking at 5700 radios and the equipment needed to service it. This isn't about a few radios and batteries.

2. The legal responsibility in regards to the system and should it fail and cause the death of civilians (not taking into account 911 which occurred after the purchase) as well as any long term health issues in the operation of the system, as in ergonomics, battery exposure, electronic radiation etc...

3. The economic spin off of the system: the actual cost, the delivery, maintenance, replacement, upgrading, compatibility interfacing and servicing of the system. The cost of the failed radio system was 14 million dollars. A bit more than you little skip to the Best Buy.

So the more I think about it, YES I would expect the Mayor of a Major city to verify, investigate and confirm the purchasing of any life saving equipment. Even if it his minions doing it, it is ultimately his responsibility. There are other parts of being Mayor which are not so glamorous. Perhaps if former Mayor "Randy" Giuliani spent less time screwing his mistress, he would have gotten the job done. This is a man who's own children want nothing to do with him. That says a lot.

[fryguy]

42. you're kidding, right?

no one is saying he should have personally checked the radios - that is ridiculous. but, as you acknowledge, as the mayor and administrator of the City, it was ultimately his responsibility to insure the workers in the City had the proper equipment. this means having provided proper oversight to the acquisition process, etc. of course he wasn't going to open each radio and test it, nor perhaps be the person who determined the requirements, but whatever decision or inaction that was made with respect to this issue was, in the end, his.

by your logic, just as rudy shouldn't be blamed for the radios because he couldn't be expected to be paying attention to such things while running the city, so should bush not be held accountable for the conditions at walter reede, for instance, because he has larger things to do with running the country than to check and make sure doctors and hospital administrators are working properly. its an asinine position in both case. the leader, be it the country or the city, is responsibile for what happens during his/her watch and the decisisons that are made. rudy's decisisons were based not on the wellbeing of the city - at least not the whole city - but rather on his own needs and those of his friends, and his desire for absolute authority and power.

and blaming the individual fire fighters for not checking their own equipment, well that is just shameless and a disgusting attempt to blame the victims. are you telling me that all 11,000 or so fire fighters in NYC need to spend their own time going from building to building, cellar to cellar, location to location, testing to see if their equipment worked? i'm sure each and every one of them tested the batteries, but could they really be expected, or even able, to have gone into the WTC at some point to see if they worked just in case someone flew a plane into the building during their tour? and if they did check and found them not to work what then? shelf their radios altogether? buy nextel wireless to replace them? its not like they could have chosen not to carry their department issued radios any more than units and soldiers deployed to iraq without proper equipment could have changed that (with the possible exception of buying their own body armor which is individual, not like a coordinated system such as a radio network).

lastly, if you know anything about how rudy "ruled" prior to 9/11 you'll know that he marginalized the fire union entirely and indeed, as the video mentions, the chief was a hand-picked friend of his. the result of both was that there was no leverage for them to make a change. its nice to say the union should have pressed, but what does it matter when you have a despot as a mayor with no regard for what the union is saying and a chief who was more concerned with his position of power than the welfare of the fire fighters doing their tours in the city?

[Dangerman]

25. Unbelievable!

And why the bastard Giuliani is named Time's 2001 Person of the Year, is beyond me. :mad:

[antiimperialist]

34. 9-11 families also blasted Giuliani

From the USA Today:

NEW YORK (AP) — Relatives of firefighters killed at the World Trade Center reproached Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani in a video, pairing footage of the falling twin towers with charges that the former New York mayor was woefully unprepared for Sept. 11.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-07-12-giuliani-firefighters_N.htm?csp=34#Register

[fryguy]

40. kicked

powerful. here's wishing that someone starts running it on TV throughout the country.

and this is just the tip of the iceberg on why he shouldn't be president -- the real reason, in my mind, is that he is quite literally a fascist. how else can you describe someone who proposes to cancel elections and remain in power after the expiration of his term as mayor based on the events of that day?

[Just-plain-Kathy]

43. Just to add something everyone should know.

Giuliani made a mint selling an investment firm to an Australian company name The Macquarie Group. They’re a company who leases U.S. toll roads.

They guy has been cutting deals and make tens of millions from one of the world's largest toll road conglomerates. Could you imagine how many public highways will be converted to toll roads leased by foreign investment firms if Rudy becomes our President?

I can’t help but think that maybe Bloomberg’s new proposal to charge an $8.00 toll to ease congestion in Manhattan, has something to do with this one way or another.

We have to remember that “America’s Mayor” Giuliani endorsed Bloomberg’s mayoral campaign less then two months after the 9-11 attack. The position of mayor was handed to Bloomberg by Giuliani.

....PS...Then we have to consider that Giuliani sold his defense investment firm.

I started thread on this and it sunk like rocks.