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Rachel Maddow: 'The Family' Directly Connected to Uganda 'Kill Gays' Bill (Inhofe Atteneded?)

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 08:02 AM
Original message
Rachel Maddow: 'The Family' Directly Connected to Uganda 'Kill Gays' Bill (Inhofe Atteneded?)
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 08:22 AM by Hissyspit
 
Run time: 07:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7ViHy2SgPk
 
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Posted on DU: December 10, 2009
By DU Member: Hissyspit
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MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show - 9 December 2009: Jeff Sharlet, author of 'The Family,' reports that the Ugandan National Prayer Breakfast was attended by influential Americans, when Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati first floated ideas of executing gay people. Sen. Inhofe has been 'especially active' with the Ugandan prayer meeting, but Sharlet has not confirmed that the senator was in attendance at the October 2008 Ugandan prayer breakfast when the legislation was spoken about.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=aU6JnNOFJv64#

Uganda to Drop Death Penalty, Life in Jail for Gays (Update1)


By Fred Ojambo

Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Uganda will drop the death penalty and life imprisonment for gays in a refined version of an anti- gay bill expected to be ready for presentation to Parliament in two weeks, James Nsaba Buturo, the minister of ethics and integrity, said.

The draft bill, which is under consideration by a parliamentary committee, will drop the two punishments to attract the support of religious leaders who are opposed to these penalties, Buturo said today in a phone interview from the capital, Kampala.

Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati presented a private member’s bill on Oct. 14 which sought the death penalty and life imprisonment for gay people in the country. The Ugandan government supports the bill because homosexuality and lesbianism are “repugnant to the Ugandan culture,” Buturo said. Still, it favors a more refined set of punishments, he said.

In addition to formulating punishments for the gay people, the bill will also promote counseling to help “attract errant people to acceptable sexual orientation,” said Buturo.

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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
I love it when Rachel focuses on the family -- expose these frauds!
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BennyD Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I discussed this with a co-worker who leans to the right on most issues.
He placed the blame for this on the teaching of evolution! He said that when a culture accepts the notion that there is no moral absolutes and that a person is not created in the image of God, then it allows them to single out the minority and kill without conscience.

I'm trying to think of how I should respond to his statement.

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big lu Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, considering that the Family's a Christian organization
and Uganda has something like a 90% Christian majority, your co-worker doesn't seem to have a very cogent argument to put together.
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rjwin Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Setting absolutes aside,
Your co-worker is right: the further you are from the "image" of God, the further you will be from any Human considerations. After all, didn't the slave-ship captain claim that he was a Christian man and that he runs a Christian ship!
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Your friend who "leans to the right" at least recognizes that this as a human rights violation
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 01:06 PM by Jack Rabbit
It's mass murder. And Inhofe allies himself with the rabble who call Obama a Nazi? What is this? This is real Nazi parallel. A piece of legislation is being proposed to put people to death for what they are. Gay is the new Jew.

The teaching of evolution? C'mon. Senator Inhofe doesn't believe in evolution. Moreover, he believes in moral absolutes. I've never given Hitler's beliefs in science any thought, but he, too, believed in moral absolutes.


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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Basically, the problem with his argument is...
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 04:19 PM by snake in the grass
...that no one propagates "no moral absolutes", as he understands it. To be sure, everything is open to question, criticism, and possible re-evaluation, but even the religious segment of society has done this for centuries. There are plenty of things condoned in the Bible, that were historically acceptable, but aren't anymore. Some are even illegal, see slavery or discrimination of females, for example. In the Old Testament a man could atone for rape by paying the father of the girl some shekels and subsequently marrying her. Try that in this day and age in Western society.

Furthermore, many of the things made illegal through legal systems throughout history (murder, theft, perjury, rape) are based simply on the fact that they are contrary and disruptive to social adhesion, and this is backed by evolution. Even within social species like wolves or primate (there are many others) one can observe positive social interaction on a level to what we would call morality; individuals who divert from accepted social conduct are sometimes subject to draconian punishment.

The constant whining of the religious extremists in the U.S. that we have gone downhill morally since promoting the teaching of evolution (an observable fact) or taking the 10 Commandments out of the public sphere, serves only to illustrate the fact that they have missed the point. The 10 Commandments are actually a good example of their short-sightedness. The first 4 have absolutely nothing to do with morality.

1: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

2: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

3: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

4: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

Why should they be heeded in a secular society like the one intended by our founding fathers?

5: 'Honour your father and your mother.'
--Now, this is nice and, perhaps ideal, but what if your parents are abusive drunks, neglectful, or pedophiles? Should they still be honoured? That's what's meant by being able to question everything.

7: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
--In a culture where woman are considered property, one can see why this is so upsetting. After all, you are using some other guy's stuff. In a tribal patriarchy, like the one from which these rules come from, it also served to ensure that your children are really your children.

10: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
--Another commandment that condemns an act that damages nothing and no one. Just because I wish I had my neighbor's iPod doesn't lead to the end of the world as we know it. An obsession therewith could, however, lead me to break numbers 6 and 8:


6: 'You shall not murder.'

8: 'You shall not steal.'

It's nonsensical to believe the children of Israel traveled for years through the desert killing and robbing each other until they were finally saved by the arrival of the 10 Commandments on Mt. Sinai. They would have never made it.

Finally, we have number 9:

9: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

It's not a coincidence that our justice system considers perjury a serious crime, as it makes a just decision difficult, if not impossible. Simply lying is, in itself, not punishable by law, but pathological liars are punished within their social fields, in that no one believes them, sooner or later.

Numbers 6, 8, and 9 are the only commandments necessary. The rest are useless and some things are missing entirely like rape, pedophilia, slavery, honour killings, or genocide. Our secular society is, in fact, more moral than what the 10 Commandments have to offer. By being able to question things, we are also in the position to correct wrongs within our system; slavery, for example. Relying solely on the so-called inerrant word of some deity prevents corrections. In that case, we might as well return to the Bronze Age. The very progress we have made directly correlates to the ability to question everything.

You can present this to your co-worker, but I wouldn't expect too much from him. In my experience, this goes straight over their heads. As a matter of fact, to question elements of the belief systems of pathologically religious is a very scary experience for them, for they define themselves over their beliefs. To call the beliefs into question is to question the very validity of their existence.

Good luck.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Wait a minute!
"It's nonsensical to believe the children of Israel traveled for years through the desert killing and robbing each other until they were finally saved by the arrival of the 10 Commandments on Mt. Sinai. They would have never made it."

Not so. Look at the Aztecs ....war, death, pain, a human sacrifice every half minute....children's toys of skulls and weapons (how American!)... a sport where the losing team is executed...

and they made it and built huge construction complexes for quite a while.

But don't forget the context of the old testament. "Thou shalt not kill" obviously means "Thou shalt not kill other Jews" because for the rest of the book, they kill everything that moves.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes,
"Thou shalt not kill other Jews" is correct. That was the tribal code to be followed in order to ensure social cohesion. I mentioned the genocide further in my statement. The same thing goes for war, which was merely a tool to gain control of resources deemed indispensable.

As far as the Aztecs go, they were indeed bloodthirsty, by our standards. However, these blood rituals were systematized and controlled, and, at least at first glance, served to appease their gods. It was still illegal to just go out and kill your neighbor just because he looked at you the wrong way. If these things weren't regulated by laws, they would have never achieved the level of cultural sophistication they did. That is, before the followers of another blood cult came and made them a thing of the past.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. How about listing....
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 04:11 PM by AlbertCat
....all those who thought they were the image of god and picked out minorities to kill en mass....y'know the Bible is full of them! "Bring me 1000 foreskins of the Philistines!" (Saul) as well as many example after the events in the Bible....Crusades anyone? This might take you a week or so to get thru....


But it sure as hell PROVES that thinking you are made in the image of some god most certainly does not stop one from making up and cherry picking morals and using these to justify killing all sorts of people. Evolution on the other hand clearly and in the most concrete of terms says we are ALL related....even to PLANTS...so that you KNOW for a FACT that when you kill another human being...or even a cabbage, you are killing a relative.

Besides, evolution has nothing to say about morals...wait! It does! It says they have evolved over time as the behaviors helped survival.... implying there are now moral absolutes within our very natures! And what culture ACCEPTS the notion there are no moral absolutes? Name one culture!

Ask him why he assume to make judgments on Evolution when he obviously knows nothing about it. If he wants to make statements about evolution, he needs to read up on the latest finds by evolutionary scientists (not those who are already opposed and making stuff up about it.) If he did, he would know about what evolutionary psychologists are working on. His arrogance at condemning something he know little about is not very moral. But I'm sure he's not unable to understand Evolution (understanding it does not require agreeing with it, y'know.) I suggest "The Selfish Gene" and "The Blind Watchmaker". Both old books though. Dawkins' latest "The Greatest Show on Earth" is a laying out of the evidence for Evolution. It's an easy read and very clear even when talking about complex notions. He can read it and then come up with arguments to disagree....instead of reciting made up stuff that has nothing to do with Evolution.
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CrunchMaster Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. More Family shennanigans here
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 01:46 PM by CrunchMaster
I posted a long timeline of interesting "Media Distractions" since 1993 that includes some really odd goings on with the Family, 9/11 and Argentina and Brazil this past summer. Gheck out the part starting with May 27 2007
http://www.democraticunderground.com//discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x276952
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. http://www. democraticunderground.com //discuss/duboard.p...
Uh... I'm sorry but that was just dumb.


Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind"...and your doctor?
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