Wikileaks leaked video of Civilians killed in Baghdad - Full video

[Poll_Blind]

Run time: 39:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik   Posted on YouTube: April 04, 2010 By YouTube Member: sunshinepress Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: April 05, 2010 By DU Member: Poll_Blind Views on DU: 6255

 
Full 39 minute video of event.

[polly7]

1. Good God.

I couldn't stand the bragging after about a minute and a half. He he ...... we got dead bodies there, oh look, we got one crawling away. Did they film all the 'weapons' those people were carrying? I couldn't see any, myself at the start. Maybe just more of those invisible kind ........ like the ones planted alongside the farmers on the roads. 'War' is fighting an army, not shooting down citizens from above. So sick of this nightmare.

[progressoid]

2. A reluctant K/R

[disillusioned73]

3. Where, oh where???

Is the apologist??

[truth2power]

16. I know where the apologist is, but I'm not allowed to say. n/t

[denbot]

4. They had weapons, and were targeting humvees. Fuck'em

Bitch all you want. Two of them were clearly carrying weapons, and the one peeking around the corner did have a launcher tube. We now have people over there, and until they all leave we have a duty to protect our own.

I did not want us to invade Iraq, I do want our people out of there.

The reality is that we are over there, and our people are in harm's way. Anyone engaged in combat against our people, are targets. We got them first, fuck'em.

denbot: Naval Expeditionary Medal - Persian Gulf

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[timtom]

8. Imagine how the quality of everyone's life would skyrocket

if they had stayed the fuck out of Iraq!!!

WMD, INDEED!!!

[Name removed]

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[superduperfarleft]

I agree with you.

Run time: 39:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik   Posted on YouTube: April 04, 2010 By YouTube Member: sunshinepress Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: April 05, 2010 By DU Member: superduperfarleft Views on DU: 6255

 
It won't be popular, but I do.

edit: I have no idea why the video embeds in my post, but whatever.

[nosferaustin]

7. that's a matter of perspective

One of the men killed was a Reuters photographer, the way that the guy at the corner of the building is holding what you claim is a launcher up to his face as the copter goes by indicates to me that it may well have been his camera. What's pretty clear is that the soldiers were not fired on and made a whole hell of a lot of unverified presumptions with what sounds like a real zealous desire to engage their "enemy."

[SteppingRazor]

9. If you go back and watch the video, it's almost 100 percent that the "RPG" is a camera with zoom ...

lens. That said, there are clearly other guys in the group with AK-47s.

[Chulanowa]

11. Maybe if you don't know what an AK-47 looks like

It's a stick - perhaps a pipe or board. It's too long to be an AK, and is pretty much straight.

I guess it could be an old musket, if you really want it to be a weapon :shrug:

[jberryhill]

14. To be clear which guy...

Between about 2:08 and 2:14, there is a guy with a long object. The way he swings it around to the front of him at the corner suggests it has some sort of strap.

But, on subsequent viewings, it looks pretty long.... yes, musket long.

The real issue seems to be the perception of the long camera lens as a launcher tube of some kind.

[bhikkhu]

20. I thought it might be a tripod, folded

from the way he was carrying it. Certainly not like a weapon.

[kas125]

27. It's a tripod for the camera that his partner was carrying.

[DissedByBush]

23. Not the safest job

Photographers embedding with Iraqi insurgents.

I would be surprised if there weren't a rather high mortality rate for that.

[jberryhill]

10. That is a camera, not a launcher tube

Take a look at it just before he is eclipsed by the building. You can see the camera body, and that's one mighty short "launcher tube".

Wikileaks does not explain the presence of the other guy clearly carrying a rifle.

[dbmk]

49. Clearly a camera with a long lens. n/t

[walldude]

12. Um.. the one "peeking around the corner" was a reporter with

a camera. Not a fucking launcher tube. But oh well right? Wrong place wrong time? And the two kids in the black van? Well they should have been smart enough not to be born to Iraqi parents..


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html

[donco6]

44. Really obvious - saw him before the aircraft rotated around the building.

He clearly has a camera out and ready to take a picture.

[underpants]

18. So the excuse I heard on the Tv was that it was a dangerous area

and since it is a dangerous area that is supposed to mean that it is understandable to shoot on them

then we find out (as the video shows) there is smalls arms at most which is understandable since who would NOT have some security in an area and is just so dangerous.

as I posted below the gunner wasn't a very good shot or the weapons system we bought was overvalued.

[go west young man]

21. man did you even bother to watch the video? They had cameras not weapons.

The pilots assumed they had weapons. They never took the time to check properly. They had all the time in the world to check. They didn't. Then after they had shot everyone to pieces they laughed and joked about it. That is not something to joke about. It's sick. They were looking for reasons to kill those people. Even after the wounded cameraman tried to crawl away they kept saying they just needed him to seem to reach for a weapon. Any excuse was what they were looking for. That is in no way noble. Even against an armed insurgent. I am an ex marine as are many here on DU and when I watch this video i am not proud of what I see. I am sad and sickened. These airman acted like fucking idiots. The eyes of the world are on us and they have damaged the reputation of the military with their actions. I say prosecute em and if there's a coverup prosecute the ones who conducted it.

[go west young man]

30. apparently the Guardian UK agrees with me on this one.

They even point out how the pilots were wishing for the crawling dying man to reach for some weapon so they could shoot him. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack

[hatrack]

53. Yes, they certainly weren't interested in picking him up for interrogation, were they?

Y'know, asking questions and learning about contacts and other members of his "terror cell"

Pardon me while I vomit.

[Mike K]

31. Well said -- and Semper Fi.

Everything that is done and has been done in Iraq and Afghanistan is done in our names and the rest of the world is seeing what we are seeing and have seen, and more.

[Kalun D]

35. Difference

you can't tell the difference between the long lens on a camera and a launch tube?

Please don't ever be a gunner cuz you'll be killing innocents like these guys did.

It was PROVEN to be a camera because the dead bodies were Reuters news cameramen.

In addition the rules of engagement were violated when they shot up the people trying to take the bodies away, that's why this had to come out on Wikileaks cuz the army wouldn't release it cuz it's so damning.

[liberation]

46. You are the very exact kind of people Orwell warned us about. Congratulations.

I love how even when there is actual video evidence, you still make a case that we should believe you... not our lying eyes. And then the doublethink exercise in the rest of your post is glorious.



PS. Your post comes alive in all its technicolor glory when I read it with a German accent...

[yava]

50. Denbot:l I agree I saw ONE weapon, but no shots and no hamwees...

And is that a reason to kill all those guys without weapons (with cameras) and then kill the help (probably called on by neighbors) to take the AP camera man to hospital, in a van with two kids inside?
You are thinking like a criminal even if you don't know it.
And this video will likely harm other US soldiers and you will have to take responsibility.
Denbot, did you lose any family members in any US wars? I would be very interested to know more about you.
Last question:why are US soldiers entitled to be armed in Iraq and Iraqi citizens are not?
What is your view on the gun lobby and militia in the US?

[Kalun D]

59. Camera, not an RPG

An RPG has a pointed end, look at the vid at 2:34 and 3:10 to 3:16, it's clearly a long lens camera.

Yes the security detail of this Rueters photo news team was carrying AK's. That's normal, they weren't shooting at anyone, they were friendlies.

[FarLeftFist]

15. You ever wonder....

If all those supposed "suicide bombings" that we always hear about in Iraq were really just invisible missiles from the sky.

[underpants]

17. Wow we got ripped off on that weapons system

he couldn't hit a van for crying out loud

the whole thing is disgusting

[Exultant Democracy]

19. there is something weird going on with the youtube counter. It seems not to be moving past the 300's

but there are over 6k comments on the video. I wonder what that is about.

[Kalun D]

36. Censorship

It's called YouTube censorship, it's SOP with stuff like this, happens all the time.

[disillusioned73]

57. Exactly....

Keep the "views" down so that the video doesn't go viral(acccording to them)... too late for that as far as the world community is concerned.

I hope those that have been able to post on Facebook, MySpace and any other means available have - we can not let the "media" squash this..

My next step is to send some pointed emails to our so-called liberals over @ MSNBC to ask WTF??

[Turborama]

61. The embed here says 303, on YouTube the actual figure is 532,426 views

at the time of writing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. kick and recommend

[MrMickeysMom]

24. What are the rules of engagement?

Is this really a "leak"?

Seems like an awful lot of fire for unknowns... I can't blame the soldiers for this, can you really?

Let's get the fuck out, please.

[Mike K]

32. Except for conduct which is clearly sadistic and criminal -

- the troops cannot be blamed for conduct which appears insane to civilians because they have been delivered by a corrupt government into the organized insanity called war.

George Bush and Dick Cheney should be arrested and turned over to the World Court for prosecution as war crimes. That is the only way the American People can vindicate themselves from responsibility for what has been done in Iraq and Afghanistan. If this is not done we will be seen as their protectors.

[Neutralator]

34. I absolutely agree! The outrage is being directed at wrong place but...

sad part is I doubt if it will ever happen. There are myriads of intelligence, paper works and national security blankets that they can hide into.

[yava]

51. Neutralator: I don't agree: its a war crime

In the second part, the pilot asks for authorisation to shoot at unarmed men trying to take a wounded man out of combat zone. Authorisation was granted based on his presentation of the situation.
This is a war crime and explicitly banned by the Geneva conventions.
I bet my dollar that the army will agree to this within one week.
So, eat your words and wait.
The US has a soul and pride and almost no one in the US would agree to this behavior.
This part of the action has nothing to do with whether the men were carrying weapons or cameras at the engagement stage.
No one had weapons after all were killed or severely wounded and two unarmed men were carrying a wounded guy to a van to save his life.

[Kalun D]

37. Yes it's a leak

Rueters has been trying to get this video for months if not years.

I can blame the soldiers because they couldn't have been sure of weapons, they thought they saw weapons and they weren't being shot at, they obviously couldn't have been certain of weapons because there were none.

Another thing that is misleading is the chopper is far away, the vision is magnified which makes it look close. They were under no threat.

I also blame the soldiers because they broke their own rules of engagement, to shoot people trying to retrieve the wounded that were not shooting back.

[MrMickeysMom]

42. I'm not the expert here, but...

A few things are obvious to me-

1) The quality of the video we see is not the same as the helicopter gun ship. Their's is sharper and can ID weapons.

2) Someone gives them the order to shoot. They carry out the order.

Something that should take place every day in Iraq and contributes to hundreds of thousands of deaths is clearly wrong and under formal approval!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

25. Besides everything else, WHY deliberately shoot the already wounded?

that may sound stupid of me, and I hate the whole thing.

It wouldn't have happened if we were not there.

It shouldn't have happened.

[annm4peace]

26. you could write this to your Representatives

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x451962


I am glad this video is out so people can see what our Government is doing to innocent people.
I'm including the site I first saw it on so you can see the comments. You continue to support this illegal war and occupation. Innocent children continue to be killed by our military. This video just shows one, just one incident. We continue to kill innocent fathers, brothers, sons, daughters, mothers, sisters. Their blood is on your hands. You continue to vote to fund the military. You vote against bringing the troops home now. You continue to escalate the # of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. How many more innocent children have to be killed by our government before you vote to bring the troops home?

[kas125]

28. That's what I want to know. If they really thought he was some

kind of "insurgent" shouldn't they have wanted to capture and interrogate him?

[Quixote1818]

29. Watching this I was trying to think how I would feel if I thought an RPG

was pointed at me and my life was on the line. I would feel an urgent need to engage before getting hit and killed. Especially knowing how hot that area was at the time. I know the guy pointing the camera at them meant no harm but if I was on the ground next to him I would be screaming at him not to point his camera at the chopper because those in the chopper might think he is about to fire something at them. It really looked like he was about to fire and you could hear the urgency in their voices when they thought he was about to fire at them, especially the way he was leaning against the building almost as if he was trying to take cover and not be seen. That being said, I was absolutely stunned that they fired upon the van that was just trying to help. That was really stunning! The US Military owes the family of the guy in the van enough money that the children are set forever. Thats the least they can do but it will never make up for the damage that was done.

[Neutralator]

33. I second... Soldiers made serious mistake but videos doesn't show it is deliberate.

This whole incident has to be taken with the context that the US Army was attacked from that area just prior to this engagement. (Probably the reason the photographers were there to cover those insurgency!)

The second point you mention about the van that was trying to help is the most unfortunate. But in a combat zone everything is a threat and you've to make quick decision. Some goes for you and some goes against you. Insurgents don't come in uniformed clothes and top of that street-to-street fight are the most dangerous combat situation. In this case they made a bad decision. The audio comments may upset a lot of people but frankly if you feel for every person you kill as soldier you won't get the job assigned to you. I know it is sick but this is war.

I sincerely think all the outrage should be directed at the politics and politicians not at the soldiers. Army also needs condemnation for cover-up. This is PR disaster for the Army and USA in general. Probably the reason Army withhold the video so long.

There will be no respite from these incident until the army comes back. The message to the congressman should be to end the war including Afghanistan.

[Quixote1818]

56. I watched the video before knowing what had actually happened

and my take was exactly like the soldiers. I really thought the guy with the camera was holding an RPG and it looked freaky as hell! I was thinking to myself, "Hurry up and shoot before he gets you!!!"

I think a lot of people watching the video have already read that it was a camera and they were not insurgents. When you know all that the video comes across completely different. If those actually had been insurgents there would have been no problem with what went down there other than the part with the van where I was watching and wondering why they wanted to engage??? Or why they were given permission to engage.

As for how the soldiers are acting? They are not acting any differently than the soldiers in the movie Saving Private Ryan where Spielberg researched how soldiers react in war. They killed people in cold blood who had their hands up because adrenalin was pumping. That happens in every war by all sides. Testosterone and they way men act with a gun in their hand is not a bed of roses. We are animals that are built that way from millions of years of evolution and fighting for survival. When the "fight" part of the brain is kicked in otherwise good people can turn very violent much like a sweet dog can become vicious and violent like a click of a switch. Just like in Saving Private Ryan they "HATED" the enemy and celebrated when they thought they killed them. I think that is a natural reaction when you are in a war and the other side is trying to kill you.

The military needs to work on training people to recognize these irrational, violent feelings and to over ride them with rational thought and compassion. Not an easy task but if they can combine it with "honor" then I think soldiers would respond. They have to think of standing down and being 100% sure of their actions as being honorable and have that emotion be what drives them, not the violence of the reptilian brain.

[Kalun D]

38. The Edited version that tells the whole story

the 17 minute edited version with only the relevant footage and some added commentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

[New Dawn]

39. That is the real Iraq War. Notice the difference from CNN/Fox News propaganda about Iraq?

[Rage Inc.]

40. On CNN, there was a FUCKING COMMERCIAL leading into the vid!

Disgusting!

[MrMickeysMom]

43. Interesting... well, not really. They are a commercial cable entity.

Was it a commercial for video games? THAT would be disgusting, indeed.

[Mustellus]

41. It is illegal to classify information ...

... solely to prevent embarrassment to the government.

It is illegal to classify information solely to cover up the commission of a crime.

It is illegal to classify information to protect the illegal classification of information.

It is legal to protect information that would give "aid and comfort" to the enemy.

... but the real traitors here are those who committed the acts that would give "aid and comfort" to the enemy.

Besides, the Iraqi's know this was going on. Its the Americans.. Us.. that this was classified for.

[change_notfinetuning]

45. Bush was half right. We got the weapons; Iraq got the mass destruction. n/t

[liberation]

47. Wonder how many people who find all sorts of justifications for our armed forces' actions...

... also wonder how the Germans allowed the nazis to wager WWII.

[jberryhill]

55. I didn't realize they had wagered on it...

Which side were they betting on?

[LuckyLib]

48. Our tax dollars at work. Makes me sick.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

52. I am sick to my stomach

[gorfle]

54. I have watched the entire video, and I do not fault the troops.

I have watched the entire video, and I do not fault the troops involved in the attack.

In hindsight, the attack looks like it was a mistake. But it is plainly clear that during the attack none of the soldiers involved thought it was a mistake.

This is the problem with training men to kill, which it is hard enough to do. But if you do a very good job, you also build "esprit d'corps". You create people who are not just willing to kill as a necessity, but proud to do it as their duty. People who are not just willing to kill their enemies, but eager to kill them.

The people involved in this battle clearly believed that they were engaging armed people. In hindsight, knowing what WE know, it is entirely possible that this was a photo journalist team, perhaps with an armed body guard. Or perhaps it was a journalist team embedded with some real enemies, I don't know.

But it is plain from the voices of the people involved that they thought they were engaged with armed, bad, people.

Why they would assume that a van that shows up to help is also bad people, instead of just good samaritans, I don't know. Again, I think it points to the mindset of these soldiers, who are not just willing to kill, but eager to do it. I don't fault the troops for this, I fault the people who put them into these kinds of situations. These troops are trained to look at problems like nails, and they function like a hammer.

As for the comments about bringing children to a battle, I see this as defensive bravado offered up to make themselves feel better about having just blown away two little girls. It's obvious that the troops on the ground are upset about it.

Ultimately, I see this as another tragic mistake in war, and they happen, probably a lot more than is generally known. Frankly I'm surprised that our troops exercise as much restraint as they do, given their indoctrination.

What I do NOT see here is some intentional assault on civilians or reporters.

[Kalun D]

58. I fault them

Look at the vid again at 2:34 and 3:10-3:16, it's clearly a long lens camera, and it's clearly not an RPG. In addition these guys in the security detail of the photo news party never fired one single round at anyone. In addition they clearly broke their own rules of engagement when they shot up the van trying to take away the wounded. No one was holding any weapons at that time. You can't shoot the wounded if they have no weapon in hand. You can hear the gunner say "pick up a weapon, pick up a weapon" he was waiting, it never happened and he shot anyway. That's when the kids in the van got shot.

[gorfle]

60. Listen to their voices.

It's very clear from their voices that the soldiers believed they were seeing weapons.

I agree with you that shooting the van was hardly defensible, and if these guys weren't so trained and ingrained with seeing everything and everyone as a terrorist they might have stopped to consider that it could have been good Samaritans stopping to help.

[Kalun D]

64. Yes, just like Vietnam

It's just like Vietnam, when it's comes to the populace they don't differentiate between friend and foe. And as they have for a long time when they screw up they try to hide the evidence.

they were seeing weapons, there are weapons, it's the security detail of the news crew.

[gorfle]

65. I agree.

It's just like Vietnam, when it's comes to the populace they don't differentiate between friend and foe. And as they have for a long time when they screw up they try to hide the evidence.

they were seeing weapons, there are weapons, it's the security detail of the news crew.

I agree. I'm just saying this was not an intentional screw-up.

[Quixote1818]

62. If you have to watch it twice to be sure it is a camera and not an RPG then

it certainly is not "clearly a long lens camera". I watched it the first time not knowing a thing about the video and was freaking out when the guy leaned against the building and pointed the "camera" at the chopper. I was thinking to myself "Holy crap! Shoot that guy before he kills you!" Imagine how they felt knowing weapons could fire at them at any time. It looked like an RPG to me and peoples minds will mold anything into a weapon if they think they could be shot down at any time. The mind can play tricks on people when they are in danger and hyper sensitive to threats. In this case all you see is a long black thing sticking out from behind the building and then it gets pointed at the chopper clearly looking like an RPG.

As for the van part. That is another story.

[Kalun D]

63. More Clear

It is certainly more clear it's a camera than it is an RPG, especially right before the gunner fires. Just the way all the people on the ground are casually walking around. Remember that the humvees had been engaged earlier in the day by insurgents on the rooftops, do you think the insurgents are out in the middle of the street with a chopper in the area? I get a sense just from the tone of the voices that the soldiers on the ground knew these weren't the guys they'd been fighting.

You do know what an RPG looks like? It's pointed on the end, not a 5" diameter flat end like a long lens. Look at the 17 min vid that I posted to the thread at 3:11, it's clearly a camera, it's right before the gunner fires.

[gorfle]

66. You can tell from their voices.

Again, you can tell from their voices that they believed they were seeing weapons. They first see the AK-47, which probably WAS an AK-47 (security detail for the news crew, as you said), and from there, EVERYTHING started to look like a weapon.