Young Turks: WikiLeaks Iraq Shooting Video Analysis

[CherylK]

Run time: 14:11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20LkYvEZOZs   Posted on YouTube: April 06, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheYoungTurks Views on YouTube: 313   Posted on DU: April 06, 2010 By DU Member: CherylK Views on DU: 2370

 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/does-wikileaks-iraq-video-show-murder/shocking/

[ihavenobias]

1. "The crimes of Bush and Cheney in starting this war should never be forgotten".

Amen.

Vote for The Young Turks (Once Each Day) on the Audience Choice Voting Poll at www.vote.streamys.org/ (3/22/10 through 4/11/10)!

[Turborama]

2. Amen to your amen

As well as to Cenk's conclusion from 12:37 onwards.

[axollot]

3. Right! Now who is responsible for covering it up. n/t

[truth2power]

4. We start the wars because we want their resources...

Gas, oil etc...whatever.

No, the NEXT time we're not going to "think twice" as Cenk says. Because in the final analysis, the US MIC doesn't give a good goddamn how many innocents are killed.

WMD's had nothing to do with it. Bringing democracy or any number of BS excuses had anything to do with it. Cheney, that evil MFer, isn't wealthy ENOUGH.

The US is a terrorist nation, quite possibly the greatest terrorist nation on the face of the planet.

I believe in Karma. I am not wishing it, but I am as sure as I am of anything that one day OUR karmic debt will come due, and American mothers and fathers will be weeping over the bodies of their innocent babies, and the keening will be heard as far away as the planet Pluto. Goddess help us all!!

[Mike K]

23. It's sad to see an American -

"I believe in Karma. I am not wishing it, but I am as sure as I am of anything that one day OUR karmic debt will come due, and American mothers and fathers will be weeping over the bodies of their innocent babies. . ."

- express such thoughts. But the real shame lies in the reason for it, which is the unlawful, immoral, wholly unnecessary mayhem we are inflicting on a lot of innocent people who never did a thing to us or wanted to. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney are responsible for this crime which is being committed in our names and they must be held to account.

There were two children in that van. They were injured by gunfire and they watched their father being killed. Those children, along with probably millions of other Iraqi children, will grow up with an abiding hatred for Americans and a wish to harm us. And we need to think about why.

Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the criminal conspirators who promoted this massive crime must be handed over to the World Court by those American People who have the decency to know right from this terrible wrong.

[truth2power]

29. As I said, I don't wish it. And, yes, it is sad that I can't feel any pride in being American...

And you are correct, in that Bush, Cheney et. al. should be turned over to the World court.

Just don't wait for Obama to take any action. That, in itself, is an indictment of his administration, IMO.

[timtom]

5. Cenk is helping to perpetuate the dangerous myth that this is a "war."

Which it is not.

He asks how the poorly-trained soldiers can tell the good guys from the bad guys.

Good Guys??? Bad Guys???

WE ARE THE BAD GUYS! Period.

[sasquuatch55]

14. You can't tell when your in a chopper a 1/2 mile away.

Sick Motherfuckers!

[yava]

15. Cenk, you are on the wrong side on this one.....

While the engagement of the folks carrying mostly "cameras" with no hostile fire was wrong and we can put it on the account of a mistake in the heat of the combat zone, the shooting on an unarmed van with two unarmed civilians stopped to evacuate a wounded man (later we know he is a reporter) is a war crime and agaist the Geveva conventions.
Why don't you call it that instead of being apologetic about our boys. You are out of line and I bet you my buck that in a week the USAF will admit it just as such and try to hush it up by compensation pay to the families.
Cenk, are you trying to get on the MSM at the cost of selling your integrity? So that would be one more. Like models who sleep their way all the way to starhood in holywood?

[ihavenobias]

16. Either we watched different videos or you didn't finish this one (it is pretty long).

I can't think of another logical explanation for your comment.

[timtom]

28. Many are still addressing this situation as though we are at war.

We aren't.

We are on a murderous rampage in at least two nations. That distinction needs to be made.

I emailed TYT and asked that that distinction be made. I've got my fingers crossed.

[libodem]

6. Reporters

were singled out to be slaughtered from the get go in this illegal occupation.

[Karenina]

10. BINGO!

[liberation]

18. The non-embedded ones that is...

[florida08]

7. another vote for TYT

Cenk hit all the high points for me. The key element which is not in the tape is their mindset. Why they were sent. According to The Public Record website they were sent to help troops on the ground who were taking small arms fire and RPG attacks. But the Reuter's reporter we're told was gathering info on how the occupation was hurting Iraqis specifically how our troops were..so it's conflicting on what the real story is. But their attitudes is what is appalling. Makes them look like bloodthirsty assassins instead of professional pilots and proves the point that our occupation is wrong and never should have happened to begin with. I'm sure Cheney gets off on this kind of thing. UGH!

[KeepItReal]

8. Spot on, Cenk and TYT

<eom>

[pundaint]

9. It is the president's sworn duty to prosecute war crimes.

[20score]

11. Damn.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. K/R

It is very uncomfortable viewing.

[Capitalocracy]

13. You've got to take into account these guys are working.

With regards to their attitude when they're shooting these people, I mean, in their training they try hard to pump them up for shooting badguys, and you can see that in their attitude here, where as soon as you identify that they "might" be carrying weapons, they're suddenly the scum of the earth because you're cleared to shoot.

But honestly, do you expect them to cry after every bullet they fire? It's hard enough for these guys to cope with what they're being asked to do without having that kind of expectation for them to cry for every possible enemy possible civilian they kill from half a mile away. They shouldn't be asked to do these things in the first place, but while wars couldn't happen without somebody to pull the trigger, the culpability of the person who actually pulls the trigger is minimal in a case like this.

What really sickens me is that we continue these wars, we continue to have this policy, as Cenk points out, that murdering someone is OK as long as it's high-tech, and we don't prosecute the war criminals and profiteers who are making these things happen.

The way these soldiers talk reminds me of call center workers who are laughing about how they just sold someone a big expensive pile of crap, or fast food workers laughing about how many calories they just sold someone or how they're not even close to following sanitation regulations... people cope with the shittiness of their jobs by joking about it

[Quixote1818]

17. I agree. It happens in every war

In Saving Private Ryan, Steven Spielberg researched the way soldiers were in battle and in WWII the soldiers frequently killed soldiers who had their hands up and were giving up. The adrenalin is pumping and anyone who you think wants to kill you becomes hated. Police officers who beat people after high speed car chases go through the same emotions. I think it's built into the reptilian part of the brain as humans have had to cope with war since the beginning of time and our violent nature comes out when in violent surroundings just like a sweet cuddly dog can flip on a dime and become vicious and mean when threatened. I don't think anyone should judge someone unless they walk in the same shoes. War is extremely stressful and you have to believe you are the good guys and they are the bad guys just to cope with the fact that you are killing people. They also see those from the other side as potentially killing their friends or even themselves if they leave them alone. Just like in Saving Private Ryan, the guy they let go came back and killed their friend.

I do think the military could work on making restraint honorable. Having the guts to be sure you are doing the right thing. Also to maybe have someone designated to be a devils advocate in each situation. A person who's job it is to look for reasons they might be killing innocent people and if there is any doubt, not to fire. When the president is about to give an order he usually has several people give the pro's and cons of what could happen and often the president will hold off if the probability of killing civilians is too high.

[liberation]

19. ... somewhere among all those words, you must have had a point.

Which was?

[Quixote1818]

20. There are several points that are quite obvious for most people

1. In war the psychology of otherwise good people under extremely stressful situations reverts back to the reptilian brain.
2. In the stress of war otherwise good people demonize the other side to rationalize what they are doing is ok.
3. The military needs to work out better ways to prevent things like this from happening again. Those being:
a. Making it honorable to have restraint rather than honerable to be a great shot
b. Having a devils advocate in battle situation there to question if those they are about to fire on are actually the enemy or civilians and if there is any doubt to hold fire.

Clear enough for you now?

[Mike K]

25. I think his point is -

- that war may correctly be defined as organized insanity, such as the utter insanity plainly manifest in the gun camera clip, and when people are consigned to function within a structured form of insanity they will conform and behave in an insane manner (Google "The Stanford Experiment). We have seen this in every example of combat conditions that our troops have been consigned to.

While I can sit in a safe, comfortable chair and comment about how wrong it was for those apparently innocent Iraqis to be killed in my name (and yours), I can't blame the men who in reality are little more than extensions of the weapons used to destroy those lives. I blame the people who are truly responsible for it and I regret to say that Obama has chosen to become one among them.

Bush and Cheney are the authors of this period of terrible insanity.

[howmad1]

21. Two points:

1. With all the multi-million dollar technology we've invested in the miltary, how is it not possible to zoom in to the photographer allegedly carrying weapons to determine that indeed, it was camera equipment he was carrying? And don't tell me the helicopter was too far away. They were close enough to determine that two kids were in the van.

2. Is it possible, just possible that one of the dozen that were killed might have told us where those weapons of mass destruction were hidden. So how come our superior fighting forces did'nt try to capture these individuals for intelligence purposes, instead of using them for a laughingly fun filled afternoon of playing shooting gallery?

Oh, by the way, I do support the troops; only if they come home. Otherewise, they ae murderous whackos who got their kicks in killing about 100,000 innocent people.

[KeepItReal]

24. You do realize it is an edited Army video with added zooms and captions, right?

An editor (either WikiLeaks or DoD) modified the orginal gun camera footage to highlight the two little girls and the cameramen.

[kellytore]

22. Cheney and Bush should be proud of their war.

I sometimes feel sorry for the people we sent over their to become barbarians, but then I start thinking why would any rationale minded person join a military that has gone into many developing nations and killed innocent people. I'm sorry, but I come to a conclusion that the men and women of our armed services are fucking morons for not realizing the horrible foreign policy we have had for the past 65 years. If Obama does not get us out of these hell holes soon, you can chalk up two more losses for our side.

[Mike K]

26. The point you're making is valid -

- only if we can assume that every one of the troops now serving in Iraq knew what they were getting into when they enlisted. Some did, I'm sure, but I'm equally sure that most of them didn't. A lot of them were National Guardsmen who joined the "Weekend Warriors" for the monthly check and expected to do nothing more for it than spend two weeks a year playing soldier and one night a month at a grab-ass drill at a local armory. There are many who are just simple-minded enough to believe the okey-doke fed to them by recruiters and there are those who simply couldn't find a job and who joined the military for the bonus and the paycheck and didn't wake up to reality until they found themselves in the Middle East -- many on their second and third "stop-loss" deployments.

"Support The Troops" stickers reflects a rather widespread mentality here at home. The majority of people who post those stickers will tell you that "our boys are over there defending America -- fighting for you and me." They really believe that, mainly because they are too dense to understand that our government could do something as criminally wrong as the Iraq occupation really is. If our troops are "over there" fighting, it is right and good. Many of these brainwashed puppets are the parents of soldiers serving in Iraq.

[Incitatus]

27. murder nt

[ihavenobias]

30. Kick n/t