Anderson Cooper & Roland Martin Argue With Virginia's SCV "Commander" About The Civil War & Slavery

[Turborama]

Run time: 10:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZUpqDDlM2M   Posted on YouTube: April 08, 2010 By YouTube Member: MoxNewsDotCom Views on YouTube: 367   Posted on DU: April 08, 2010 By DU Member: Turborama Views on DU: 1141

 
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii2SG-WBuxM

First up tonight, "Keeping Them Honest."

Governor Bob McDonnell of Virginia making April Confederate History Month, but not mentioning anything about slavery. Now, this is a proclamation which has caused a firestorm of controversy today and resulted in the governor just a few hours ago reversing himself.

I want to go over to the wall and show you in detail what the proclamation actually said. It was issued on Friday by the newly elected Republican governor of Virginia. This is him.

Now, here's the actual proclamation. I want to make it very big here so you can kind of see it. It starts off saying, "Whereas April is the month in which the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America." And look at this. It goes on to -- "joined the Confederate States of America in a four-year war between the states for independence."

Now, talking about the Civil War there, the war against the United States. Now, we skip ahead to clause three. And it says: "It is important for all Virginians" -- right here -- "to reflect upon our commonwealth's shared history, to understand the sacrifices of the Confederate leaders,, soldiers and citizens during the period of the Civil War." So, do you notice anything missing there? He's saying that, in the month of April, all the people now in the state of Virginia, black and white, should understand and effectively pay homage to the -- quote -- "sacrifices of Confederate leaders, soldiers and citizens."

Makes no mention of slavery, nothing about the sacrifices the half-million enslaved people in Virginia were forced to make. Now, you can scroll through the proclamation and never see the word slavery. And that issued on Friday.

Then, on Tuesday, when he was asked about it, the governor didn't say, oh, that was an oversight, I forget about slavery. He actually suggested that slavery was insignificant in Virginia, telling "The Washington Post" -- look at this -- let me just blow this up -- telling "The Washington Post": "There were any number of aspects to that conflict between the states. Obviously, it involved slavery, it involved other issues, but I focused on the ones I thought were most significant for Virginia."

Now, a few hours ago, after increasing criticism, the governor called the slavery omission a mistake and inserted this into the new proclamation. This is the new paragraph he put in.

He says: "Whereas it is important for all Virginians to understand that the institution of slavery led to this war and was an evil and inhumane practice that deprived people of their God-given inalienable rights and all Virginians are thankful for its permanent eradication from our borders, and the study of this time period should reflect upon and learn from this painful part of our history."

All right, now, so, "Keeping Them Honest," it seems pretty hard to argue that this was just an oversight by the governor, because, as we showed you, as late as yesterday, he was defending excluding any mention of slavery.

Now, the other explanation, of course, is that it was a calculated effort to appeal to his base. Governor McDonnell was lobbied to make the proclamation by the Virginia division of a group called the Sons of Confederate Veterans. They call the Civil War the second American revolution and say the citizen soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personify the best qualities of America. That is their quote.

Joining me now is Brag Bowling, the commander of the Virginia division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, also political contributor Roland Martin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Roland, what do you make of this? Was the governor just trying to appeal to his base? Was this just a mistake?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No.

First of all, he clearly was trying to appeal to his base. It was an idiotic mistake for him to sit here and proclaim this. I mean, the bottom line, the Confederacy was based upon this issue of slavery. And, so, it was hurtful; it was degrading; it was an oppressive system.

And, so, I don't even see how he could even come up with this whole notion that it really wasn't significant enough to mention it, and that it was really no big deal. Let's celebrate the Confederates. It makes no sense.

That's like someone sitting here saying, let's celebrate Nazi soldiers for simply doing their job. Ridiculous.

COOPER: Brag, your group, the Sons Of Confederate Veterans, lobbied the governor to make this proclamation. Was it a mistake?

BRAG BOWLING, SONS OF THE CONFEDERATE VETERANS: Not at all. I applaud the governor for his courage and his insight.

And I completely disagree with Mr. Martin. The -- there were a whole lot of issues other than slavery involved in that war. And, actually, he's given a good reason why there should be Confederate History Month, because he knows only one reason. And that's slavery. And there were a whole lot more.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: That was the dominant reason.

COOPER: But do you think it was a mistake for the governor not to mention slavery in his proclamation?

BOWLING: The governor -- it was an omission. And the Sons Of Confederate Veterans has always wanted a true and accurate history of the war.

And that includes slavery. So, we are not at all opposed to the insertion of that clause. No sane person in the 21st century supports slavery.

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: That was 150 years ago, and there are people that act like it's 1865 right now.

COOPER: Right.

On your Web site, though, on your home page, you don't mention anything about slavery. You say that the Civil War, which you call the second American revolution, was about the preservation of liberty and freedom, that that was the motivating factor.

BOWLING: It was. There's no doubt about it.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But you make no mention of slavery here.

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: We're an organization of Confederate descendants. And so we're naturally going to support the honor and good name of the Confederate soldier. He wasn't a politician. He was a soldier.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: But wait. But wait a minute. Here's the reality.

The fact of that matter is, Virginia did not want the federal government telling them what to do. It was dealing with the issue of slavery. Now, you sit here and talk about freedom?

Well, guess what? People who looked like me, they were not free. They were oppressed.

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: I hate to give you a history lesson, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Well, let him finish. And then I will let you answer.

MARTIN: No, no. Again, though, that is the reality.

And, so, when you sit here and say, well, we will celebrate the Confederate veterans, these folks committed treason by taking up arms against the United States. You celebrate that? They were domestic terrorists.

BOWLING: Can I speak?

COOPER: Yes. Go ahead.

BOWLING: OK.

He's incorrect, especially when it comes to Virginia. Slavery had absolutely nothing to do with Virginia leaving the Union.

MARTIN: Come on.

BOWLING: As of Fort Sumter, Virginia was firmly pro-Union. It was when Abraham Lincoln called up 75,000 troops to invade the Lower South that Virginia seceded.

And the governor of Virginia, John Letcher, said that no Virginian would be allowed to fight against fellow Americans and be coerced into staying in the Union. Virginia wouldn't do that. It had nothing to do with slavery.

MARTIN: And why did they do it? Slavery.

They didn't -- Fort -- look, South Carolina, it's all slavery. You can dance around it, you can spin it, you can dress it up, but that is the reality. And the problem here is, the governor -- look, you had two previous Democratic governors who would not issue this particular proclamation. And then you have a couple Republican governors before them who did so. But even Governor Jim Gilmore saw the need to call slavery what it was.

This governor made an egregious mistake. And it is insulting, sir, for you to sit here and say, well, it was simply an omission. And if you can't even recognize it on your own Web site, that is insulting.

BOWLING: You wouldn't have supported a Confederate History month proclamation even if he did put the reference in. You wouldn't -- because this is political.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Before I don't -- I don't support the celebrating of terrorists. I don't support the celebrating of terrorists.

BOWLING: This is political, Mr. Martin.

MARTIN: I don't support somebody -- I don't support somebody celebrating Nazi soldiers by simply saying, well, they were only doing their job. I equate the two the same.

BOWLING: I hate to tell you, but the Confederate soldier was hardly a Nazi. He's been the main fighting force for the United States in every war we have ever fought, is the Southerner.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So, Brag, do you then disagree -- Brag, do you disagree with what the governor has now done, because...

BOWLING: No.

COOPER: ... in his new statement, in the new proclamation, he seems to disagree with you that slavery -- you say slavery had nothing to do with Virginia and the war.

BOWLING: Well, I disagree with the fact that he said that it was the reason. And it wasn't.

MARTIN: Oh, come on.

BOWLING: But he's been pushed into this by people like Mr. Martin. This is a political opposition to Robert McDonnell, is basically what he's hearing from.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: It's called history. These same Confederate veterans, they didn't want people who look like me to read. And this is why, because we also understand the real history. So, you can -- you can sit here and create a secondary history. It can be revisionist. But that is the reality. And, so, there is a whole body of work that lays it out. But, when the people sit here and say, oh, it was states' rights, not telling us what to do, because they wanted to keep the way of life, which was to keep people like me in chains, beating them, oppressing them, and denying them the rights they richly deserved. Those are facts.

BOWLING: The United States -- the United States was the only country in the Western Hemisphere that ended slavery through war. And that was a policy of the Union government.

MARTIN: What was the first state -- what was the first state to legalize slavery? Virginia. What was the -- who had more slaves than any other state? Virginia.

Every single president that came from Virginia was a slaveholder. You can sit here and say that's not true, but they are simply facts. Can you dispute anything that I said?

COOPER: Brag, when -- why do you call -- why do you call the Civil War the second American revolution? I mean...

BOWLING: We're seeing the same issues...

COOPER: This was a war to destroy the United States.

BOWLING: Mr. Cooper, we're seeing many of the same issues today that the Confederacy fought for 150 years ago -- smaller government.

MARTIN: Like what?

BOWLING: ... lower taxation, a less imperialistic government, too.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So, are you saying that the current efforts by Republicans are similar to efforts by Confederate soldiers?

BOWLING: No, I'm not. I'm just saying that the issues, many of the issues which were -- which were part of the Confederacy in 1860, you still see today.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right, but those issues were pretty much resolved by the Civil War.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Go ahead, Roland.

BOWLING: No. Secession...

MARTIN: Right.

BOWLING: ... was resolved by the Civil War. That was the only issue that was truly -- was truly resolved.

MARTIN: And they seceded primarily because of the whole issue of slavery primarily.

And, look, Anderson, these are the same folks who have tried to use state' rights. The two biggest reasons they have used the 10th Amendment have been because of slavery and when it came to education.

And, so, in a position, all those particular positions, the same voices, the same people saying, oh, no, the Confederates, the way of life; this is how -- the Southern way of life. That should be rejected absolutely.

And, so, he wants to talk about taxes and things along those lines. Nonsense.

COOPER: Brag...

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Those are secondary issues. Slavery was the primary issue.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We are going to continue this conversation in just a moment. We have got to take a quick break.

Let us know what you think. Join the live chat at AC360.com. You can talk to viewers watching right now the world.

Also, later, Sarah Palin vs. Republican Party Chairman Michael Steele -- which one really speaks for the GOP?

And Tiger Woods making news on the golf course, but also during the commercial breaks. We're going to tell you about an ad that's causing a lot of talk tonight, raising some questions, too. Tiger Woods' first ad since the scandal broke uses his dead father's voice. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

EARL WOODS, FATHER OF TIGER WOODS: Tiger, I am more prone to be inquisitive to promote discussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Hey. Welcome back.

We're talking about this proclamation that Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell made, making April Confederate History Month, the initial wording of it not mentioning slavery at all. It was updated late today to add a clause about slavery. The controversy, though, is certainly not dying down.

More now of my conversation with CNN analyst Roland Martin and Brag Bowling of the Sons of Confederate Veteran, which lobbied the governor to make the proclamation in the first place.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: But there are those who say, look, this is inherently offensive to African-American citizens in the state of Virginia, who are being asked in this original proclamation to understand the sacrifices made by Confederate leaders, by Confederate soldiers and by citizens. And it says nothing about sacrifices which were forced upon enslaved formerly Africans, enslaved black people.

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: Right.

COOPER: So...

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: Right. This is supposed to be a resolution, a proclamation sought for by our organization honoring the sacrifices of Confederates.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right. But why should black citizens...

BOWLING: We have no problem...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right. But why should black citizens in the state of Virginia today be told that this is a month in which they should understand the sacrifices made by Confederate leaders and Confederate soldiers? You could understand why some black residents in the state of Virginia especially would say, what are you talking about?

BOWLING: Let me ask you something.

MARTIN: Yes.

BOWLING: If we don't -- and I'm sure this is the way my opponent here feels.

Should we not study Confederate history, which is an important part of American history? Because, if we don't, then we will be treating it like Russia. That's the way the Soviet Union did with history they didn't like.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: OK. Well, let me just give you my answer. And then I will let Roland give his answer. (CROSSTALK)

COOPER: My answer is, I have relatives who were Confederate soldiers. I have relatives who were Union soldiers. I have relatives buried in Confederate cemeteries in the state of Mississippi. I go and visit their graves.

But that doesn't mean that you whitewash what the history was, what the cause was. And I think your critics are saying that's what you're trying to do.

(CROSSTALK)

BOWLING: I think Governor McDonnell was writing a proclamation for our organization. And that's the approach he took. And he has changed it now because of the vitriolic opposition of people like Roland.

COOPER: Roland, I want you to be able to respond.

MARTIN: No, and here's the problem. Your organization does not represent all Virginians.

He is the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia. That means whites, African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, men, women, people who support Confederate veterans and those who oppose them.

When the governor makes this kind of decision, he has to make it for all of the people in that particular state. That is what is so offensive.

No one -- any right-thinking person, especially any African- American, would not sit here and support the praise and celebration of a group of people who wanted to oppress their ancestors.

So, when you talk about your ancestors, trust me, mine were in chains; they were beaten; they were oppressed; they were degraded; families were broken up.

And for you to say, well, they had to sacrifice, well, guess what? People with my skin color paid a significant sacrifice by dealing with the folks who you are supporting.

BOWLING: Well, I can say this, that I don't think that you represent the feelings of all black people either.

MARTIN: I didn't say all black people.

But I can tell you this here. Virginia had more slaves than anybody else. It was a state that was deeply embedded with the culture of slavery. And you can deny it. You can dress it up. But that was the whole point of the Civil War.

And it is shameful that you cannot recognize the mistake that this governor has made by not even mentioning it, and then following up by saying, it was not significant enough to mention it by saying there were other issues he wanted to focus on.

And then to pull tourism into it? Oh, give me a break.

BOWLING: But there were plenty of other issues.

MARTIN: But what was the dominant issue? That's like Tiger Woods' wife saying, "I'm going to leave you because we can't communicate."

No, you're leaving because he cheated. So, stop trying to sit here and say there's other stuff. The dominant issue that cast a cloud over everything was slavery.

COOPER: Mr. Bowling, I want to give you the final thought, and then we have got to go.

BOWLING: No, I just -- I -- I totally disagree. I think there's a place to honor veterans, all veterans.

And the Confederate veteran is a recognized American veteran by Congress. And he deserves full honor for the sacrifice he made.

COOPER: I guess, though, the critics say, well, why not, then, have the month where Confederate veterans -- you know, everyone who fought in the Civil War is recognized, where Confederate veterans, Union veterans...

BOWLING: Well, that's -- that's -- that's an easy one. Because the Union Army invaded the South. And the Union Army killed thousands and thousands of Virginians.

MARTIN: Oh, it invaded.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right. But there were plenty of Virginians who actually -- there were plenty of Virginians who actually supported the Union and actually formed the state of West Virginia. And there's -- to say that they invaded Virginia, there are those who would argue with you it was part of the United States.

BOWLING: I think that's the prime motivating factor of the Confederate soldier, is the fact that they were invaded. They had to defend their homes and their families.

MARTIN: Right.

BOWLING: And some of the things that the Union armies did when they were in Virginia by completely destroying the Shenandoah Valley, burning people's homes, stealing things...

MARTIN: Sir, how dare you? How -- how...

BOWLING: This is the way the -- is the way the Union Army behaved in every Southern state, from the March to the Sea all the way through South Carolina. And it was shameful and degrading. (CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: So, were you offended when they destroyed Africans? Were you ashamed when they destroyed families, when they killed them, when they tortured them, when they murdered them? You sit here talking about what the Union Army did...

BOWLING: What, the Union army?

MARTIN: ... when the people you're -- no. The people you're supporting, they tortured and killed Africans who were slaves. And you're sitting here by saying, well, they invaded?

Come on. Do you even see -- did you even hear how you sound?

BOWLING: I think I sound perfectly rational. I'm giving you what happened.

MARTIN: No, I think you -- no, I think you sound delirious, when you can't even recognize how they destroyed human beings. This was a sin against humanity.

BOWLING: You're giving a perfect reason why -- why this whole era needs a full study.

MARTIN: Was slavery a sin against humanity? Yes.

COOPER: But -- but, Mr. Bowling, you're not -- you're not -- I just want to give you an opportunity to respond to what Mr. Martin said. I mean, you do recognize that, you know, slavery was inherently evil, and Africans who were brought over were treated terribly?

BOWLING: I do. I do.

I make no -- I make no defense of slavery. But we live in 2010. We don't live in 1860, where slavery was a worldwide institution. It's a completely different place now.

MARTIN: And it was wrong then.

COOPER: I...

MARTIN: And it was wrong then.

And, in the governor's statement, he even said, we need to recognize the times people lived in.

I'm sorry, sir. I reject evil then, and I reject it now.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there.

Brag Bowling, appreciate your perspective and behind honest, being on the program with us.

Roland Martin, as well, thank you.

[AlbertCat]

1. Oy!

The average Union soldier did not fight to save the black man in the 19th century.... any more than the average American fought in WWII to save the Jews. But to ignore Slavery as an issue in the war is as crazy as ignoring the Holocaust in WWII. The war was STARTED because SC seceded and Lincoln called in the soldiers to SC. But it didn't just start in a vacuum. Slavery had been actively dividing the states since the 1830's, fer Christ sake! (before that really) Nobody that I can see has said the only reason the war was fought was because of slavery.... and to ignore slavery as an issue is just too ridiculous.

The bottom line here is not straight or sharp. History is complicated and ignoring that is a peril. These folks in VA are just being disingenuous if they also claim to know anything at all about the Civil War.