TYT: Illegal Immigrant Denied Student Loan

[The Northerner]

Run time: 05:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eGz6aufHVA   Posted on YouTube: May 19, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheYoungTurks Views on YouTube: 301   Posted on DU: May 19, 2010 By DU Member: The Northerner Views on DU: 1569

 

[izquierdista]

1. Cenk, you don't get it

Contribute to a private scholarship...:eyes:....please....

If she was a minor fleeing a violent situation, there is probably some type of consideration. If she was white and fleeing the evil Commies, there would be. Part of the problem is the parents not seeking asylum (a very small part), but given that she has gone through secondary school in the US, she should be given a student visa and allowed to stay (and get a student loan).

[ihavenobias]

8. The Bigger Picture

Take a bigger picture view of this issue and you'll realize how incredibly inflammatory and counterproductive this story would be if it went the other way.

It would feed the fire of anger, resentment, racism and xenophobia and would surely be used as a club to beat Democrats and fear monger in general. The right wing (and MSM) would have a field day over an 'illegal immigrant' getting a scholarship with so many US citizens badly in need of financial aid, especially in this brutal economy. This girl would become the rallying cry for the right.

PS---The racism and xenophobia is not justified, but the fact that countless legal residents badly need financial aid can't be argued.

[izquierdista]

18. That's why you defuse it with bureaucracy

If she was found to be eligible for an HB-97.2 visa under section H4.2(b)VI-3 of 8CFR1003.6, there would be nothing to scream and yell about.

[ihavenobias]

19. The right would still explode.

For the record, my views on immigration are best expressed by Thom Hartmann:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0705-23.htm

[Lasher]

2. This is going too far.

She's been in this country without permission for a decade. She already went through public schools for free. Now she's been accepted at a US taxpayer-subsidized university and that's still not enough? Hell no, now she expects a student loan too.

I'm sure illegal immigrants are tired of being treated as second class citizens but - Oh wait...

[jdlh8894]

3. Nail - Meet Hammer. Thanks, Lasher! n/t

[liberation]

4. A loan is not a handout

And she came here as a kid. Because you know, she had soooo much choice in the matter.


I just hope she stays here, so she can have an American offspring. And who knows, after a couple of generations... her grandkids can join yours in their self righteous anger for the new wave of illegals coming over to "fuck it up" for them, taking all those jobs they would never get caught doing.

[icee]

7. Baloney. Regardless of how she came here, she is not an

American citizen. She is an illegal alien, whom should have gleaned the idea somewhere that she might one day have to fend for herself, as distasteful and inconveniet as that might be. Should she push out an American citizen applying for a college loan? What gives her the right to do that? Since when do illegal aliens have defined rights?

[X_Digger]

15. Illegal aliens have almost all the same rights we do.

Wong Wing v US

“The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of
citizens. It says: 'Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property
without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the
equal protection of the law.' These provisions are universal in their application to
all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of
race, of color, or nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of
the protection of equal laws.' Applying this reasoning to the fifth and sixth
amendments, it must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the
United States are entitled to the protection guarantied by those amendments,
and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor be deprived of
life, liberty, or property without due process of law. “

Plyler v Doe

“The illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases challenging the statute may
claim the benefit of the Equal Protection Clause, which provides that no State
shall ‘deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’
Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a ‘person’ in any
ordinary sense of that term… The undocumented status of these children vel non
does not establish a sufficient rational basis for denying them benefits that the
State affords other residents.”

[icee]

16. Nice try. The illegal alien is granted protection under the laws

but they have no defined right of eligibility for rights that accrue only to American citizens, such as the right to hold office; the right to take out bank loans or other types of encumbrances; the right to own real property; the right to enter into a contract, etc. Try to collect in court from an illegal alien. They have protections under the law; they have no defined rights under the constitution. If they had constitutional rights, it would be impossible to deport them. The fourteenth ammendment was written chiefly to protect persons of different races. Wong Wing v/ US has been bandied about for years.

[X_Digger]

17. From the congressional debate on the 14th amendment-

SENATOR JACOB HOWARD, SPEECH INTRODUCING THE FOURTEENTH
AMENDMENT

“The last two clauses of the first section of the amendment disable a State from
depriving not merely a citizen of the United States, but any person, whoever he
may be, of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, or from denying to
him the equal protection of the laws of the State. This abolishes all class
legislation in the States and does away with the injustice of subjecting one caste
of persons to a code not applicable to another. . . . It will, if adopted by the
States, forever disable every one of them from passing laws trenching upon
those fundamental rights and privileges which pertain to citizens of the United
States, and to all persons who may happen to be within their jurisdiction."

Now, on to your drivel..

Try to collect in court from an illegal alien.

I have, as a landlord. I won.

If they had constitutional rights, it would be impossible to deport them.

Bzzt.. you're forgetting due process. It would be unconstitutional to deport them without due process. If they had no rights, why does a judge need to sign off on a deportation order? Mere formality? *snort*

The fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments apply to illegal aliens as well, see INS v Lopez-Mendoza and US v Verdugo-Urquidez. Puts to bed your contention that illegal aliens have no right to own real property.

[icee]

20. I too have been a landlord, and have lost. Sir, I do not believe

you, so this conversation is over. Under your thinking there is no difference between illegal aliens and US Citizens. What is the point of citizenship? What would folks like you protest then? Due process?...ROFLMAO.

[X_Digger]

21. There are only two rights that really don't apply for illegals (well 2.5)

Keeping and bearing arms (though resident aliens can and do own firearms), and voting / holding office.

As the debates surrounding the fourteenth show, as multiple court interpretations of the fourteenth amendment show, our fundamental rights apply to anyone in our jurisdiction.

Our rights aren't a fucking lollipop that the government gives us when we're born on one side of a line or another. They're inherent, inalienable, implicit in the condition of being born with 23 chromosomes as an exemplar of homo sapiens sapiens.

[Lasher]

22. How about the right to remain in the US?

Do illegal aliens have a right to remain indefinitely in the US once they are here? If so, please demonstrate. If not, that pretty much condemns your argument to the level of idiocy on display in the lowest post downthread.

[X_Digger]

23. They have the right to establish residency, via processes set out by the INS.

Should they fail to comply, they get due process (an immigration hearing) which then removes the right to remain in the US.

What's so hard to understand? Everyone in our jurisdiction has many of the same rights. Does a German tourist have the right to remain silent? Does an illegal alien? Does a citizen? Of course.

[Lasher]

24. Ha ha ha, just as I expected.

Just keep on saying what you want to be true. I'm not having a bit of trouble understanding. And I don't believe you either. Bye.

[X_Digger]

25. So do you have anything to back up your beliefs?

Or is it just unfounded blather?

Go ahead, argue with the supreme court. See how far that gets you.

[GOTV]

27. I can't argue the law but what you are saying SHOULD be true and I hope it is.

[icee]

5. The US government cannot support as many people as want

to sneak into the US during this severe recession. That's just the way it is.

[howard112211]

26. I'd like to see the math that says that you have paid more into the system than taken out of it,

before you are in any position to argue that "we" cannot afford her.

Then I would like to see the math that compares her "value" to the system to that of the typical anti-immigration activist.

I'm betting that at the end of her life, she will be a surplus to the system, unlike for instance the aryan-american welfare teabaggers.

[olegramps]

6. This why we need immigration reform.

The magnet that attracted these desperate people was better jobs and a better life for their families. If the nation's companies were made to be responsible for the exploitation of these people the illegal immigration would slow to a trickle.

What is demanded is that these people, especially children who were taken into the country by their parents, be provide with a means to be granted citizenship if they so desire. We can't just throw these people back into a culture in which they would be devoured, nor can we expect them to become productive citizens if they are denied access to higher education.

I have to agree with Cenk in that the law must be enforced. But an unjust law should be revised.

[jdlh8894]

14. Better jobs!

We are outsourcing jobs by the thousands(maybe millions).Make up your mind!eom

[Dave From Canada]

9. Cenk is completely right!!! n/t

[LeftHandPath]

10. Agreed.

[GOTV]

11. THe problem is that there's not a way for a person like this to become a citizen

... we should make her a citizen. Let her take the test, give her a fine or community service and be done with it. She's exactly the kind of immigrant we benefit from.

If she's been here since she was 8 she's probably indistinguishable from any other Hispanic American.

[howard112211]

13. Yup.

[howard112211]

12. She has as much a right to be in America as anyone.

Especially since she is an achiever. But even if she wasn't: Who cares where she was born? Does coming out of the right uterus make one special? No, it doesn't. If one argues that the special privilige of staying here is some sort of inherited birthright of anyone born on US soil, then one can as easily argue that anyone who is a decendent of white settlers should be convicted of genocide against the natives. Neither of these arguments makes sense, but since we have agreed that we can make up shit as we like, I can make up shit to counter shit.

Plus she was eight when she came over. She didn't break any laws.

I say we deport one of those anti-immigration white supremacist filth, and give her his citizenship. We need her. We don't need the teabaggers and the warcrime enablers.

[GOTV]

28. We hurt ourselves when we turn our backs to people like her ...

... and we're stupid to do so. She's Mexico's loss and our gain - or at least she could be if we did behave so stupidly.