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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 04:03 AM
Original message
Clergy to help quell dissent during Martial Law
 
Run time: 02:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwQ7WzxPyVI
 
Posted on YouTube: August 17, 2007
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: August 17, 2007
By DU Member: CGowen
Views on DU: 2871
 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1602629

Could martial law ever become a reality in America? Some fear any nuclear, biological or chemical attack on U.S. soil might trigger just that. KSLA News 12 has discovered that the clergy would help the government with potentially their biggest problem: Us.

....

For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13. Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith.

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987



used during Hitler's regime

But the most radical attempt to reverse the flow of events took place fifty years ago. On July 20, 1944, Count Stauffenberg, a brilliant young Staff Officer, planted the bomb that was to kill the dictator. It has been called the revolt of the generals. Naturally, the Armed Forces had to play a major role. But the conspiracy was broadly based. In addition to the military there were the national-conservative dissidents headed by the former Lord Mayor of Leipzig, Carl Goerdeler, and the christian-socialists of the Kreisau Circle around Count Helmuth von Moltke. A most diverse group of men and women: professional soldiers, civil servants, clergy, communists, socialists, trade unionists, professionals, patriots all of them, yet dedicated to a most unusual objective, to rid the nation of its government in the midst of war.

The timing alone caused many Germans to agree with Hitler who called the rebels a criminal and treacherous clique. The conspirators had anticipated the charge. Their actions flew in the face of everything Germans had assumed for centuries about the relationship between government and the governed. Luther, Germany's moral authority, had settled the issue long ago by quoting Romans 13 and allowing no exceptions. Insurrection was both a mortal sin and the cardinal political crime. In all matters but Faith any government was to be obeyed unconditionally. The Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoeffer, writing in Hitler's Germany, reiterates the doctrine nearly verbatim. "Government is divinely ordained authority to exercise worldly dominion by divine right."

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/hd11/GermansAgainstHitler.html



...
By the same token, a civil magistrate has authority in civil matters, but his authority is limited and defined. Observe that Romans Chapter 13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . . for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that divine boundary has no divine authority or protection.

Civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and reach of civil authority.
...
The problem in America today is that we have allowed our political leaders to violate their oaths of office and to ignore, and blatantly disobey, the "supreme Law of the Land," the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, if we truly believe Romans Chapter 13, we will insist and demand that our civil magistrates submit to the U.S. Constitution.
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070810.html



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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good lord, what a nightmare. n/t
PB
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. they wont give up power an they have already shown killing 666,000 in iraq they dont care about life...
NeoCon's before 911 said they needed a Pearl harbor.. they let it happen.. and now they have said they need a terrorist attack killing thousands more in america to bring things together.. there is no doubt they hare it planned and will do it..
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. World Nut Daily has a decen article on this (until the last sentence)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22417


Let's also keep in mind our very own Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. You know this is going to happen
Tin foil or not all signs are pointing in this direction. Everyday another sign shows us the path we are headed down.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. yep..
and to think otherwise is to do so at your own peril.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. I should read the Bible more often. Did you all catch this:
"For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13. Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith.

Okay, if the government is established by the Lord, then why can't Republican Christians accept raising taxes for social programs that help the poor? Because, as a Christian I feel that the Democratic style of government is better at helping the poor without passing judgment, which is what Christ would do.

Obviously, the answer is apparent. The Republicans talk double speak when it comes to the poor. They claim that their Christian belief has nothing to do with the poor, but if it did, it would be handled by the church. And usually that translates to helping out one of their own well-to-do members of their congregation which may have hit hard times, or someone in Brazil.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. He is a SFD chaplain ( SFD & CSO chaplain)
Edited on Fri Aug-17-07 06:44 AM by CGowen
..
The SFD chaplain is a lieutenant commander
nationally selected through the Apply board.
In the past these billets were called CREDO
(Chaplain Religious Enrichment Development
Organization) billets. CREDO is the Navy’s
retreat program with centers located at larger Navy
installations. The SFD chaplain has many key
responsibilities. Among them is the
training of other chaplains and Religious Programs
Specialists (RP). The SFD chaplain trains both
the Reserve and Active Component.

http://navyreserve.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/03F079BF-D545-42C6-A335-577B42BE2D5D/149497/TNRFeb2007WEB.pdf
...


He is probably just obeying orders......
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Hmmmm. So only Christians
will get the message? What about the rabbis and imams and other faith traditions? This will be a minority - not only will these yahoos not convince the masses but they will be summarily dismissed by laughter or other more serious means.

This would be the start of the revolution if they do this.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. kick eom
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. They wont want to leave in 09
Why else would they continue their power grab (enabled by the timid democrats in congress)?
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS VIDEO, a KTLA-TV news report, to fully understand the significance
of this situation and this post. If you're skimming DU quickly, you might not understand how incredibly alarming this tactic is and the outcry it needs to produce.

Not only are they using clergy to enforce martial law; one of the points made in the TV report is that one of the first things authorities will do in any area in which martial law is declared is confiscate all the arms belonging to the population. I don't think a lot of NRA folks and conservatives understand this. If they did, they'd be raising hell right now.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. the freepers are discussing it
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. If the Freeps are concerned, heaven help us.
Now I must go scrub my brain of 'freeper' logic ...
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Disagree. If things have gotten SO far out of line that the Freepers are agreeing with us,
we need to welcome them on board. Same thing with the 911 Truth types, environmentalists, voting rights advocates, 2nd Amendment advocates--yes even them if they're siding with us!

Big tents mean even bigger coalitions, and we need to accelerate the convergence process started in Philly on July 4th of this year.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I agree about the big tent ...
I don't know that I will stand near the blatantly racist freepers on that thread however.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. < >
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. A government has to prepare for the possibility of martial law. Otherwise, it's incompetent.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You totally missed the point of this thread and this TV news report.
Edited on Fri Aug-17-07 11:50 PM by redacted
Furthermore, I lived through some of the worst violence ever experienced in this country in the late 60's and early 70's. There were plenty of curfews, especially in places like Detroit and Chicago's South Side. But I don't recall even a single episode of "martial law" ever declared anywhere.

So I have to completely disagree with your beside-the-point remark. We don't DO martial law in this country. This is America. It ain't Germany. Our governments are not incompetent for not preparing for "martial law." In this land, we devote resources towards ensuring civil liberties, not towards removing them. Your statement is absolutely 100 percent absurd.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. Listen to the verb tenses in this story
At one point they're talking about what "will" happen.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm dumbfounded as to why this only got 10 votes so far
Is this the "weekend effect" or have so many DUers gotten discouraged that there haven't been many people paying attention since Friday morning?

This is an incredibly alarming story for concerned folks on BOTH sides of the aisle and only 10 votes makes no sense whatsoever.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I made a cross post in the guns forum and there is another
Edited on Sat Aug-18-07 03:16 PM by CGowen
post in political videos with the same video. And someone posted it in the 911 forum.

The initial post by seemslikeadream, I included in mine, got 12 recs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1602629




a one year old article about christians not believing the moon reflects sun light got 30 recs.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-24-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. A kick for resurrection -- of the thread. n/t
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ArtemisProductions Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. What about...
atheists?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. Chilling. Like Germany in the 1930's.
It's absolutely chilling.

It's enough to make someone want to revolt.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. The same behavior pattern repeats itself with this administration
As a poster above stated, there have been plenty of times in this nations history when curfews and/or local police or National Guard were able to maintain order when required. But the operating principle of the Bushites is that extreme action is always called for regardless of the actual conditions on the ground, whether unrest among US citizens or the legal pursuit of nuclear power by a sovereign nation (Iran).

Nothing a little martial law or bunker-busting nukes can't cure, right?
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