The Jesus Question

[Britethorn]

Run time: 00:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZ_bmxdO3s   Posted on YouTube: September 04, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 05, 2007 By DU Member: Britethorn Views on DU: 1976

 
Here's what we'd REALLY like to ask the Republican Candidates at the CNN/YouTube Republican debate!

[RufusTFirefly]

1. Dude! Voters who aren't Christian don't count. Read yer Bible! n/t

[Lindsey]

2. I'm starting to really like these two...n/t

[Britethorn]

4. Thanks

Your comment made my day and made the time we spent on the video worth while. Thanks!

John

[lvx35]

3. Its a fair question.

My perception though is that most religious Dems like to know about this personal aspect of the candidates in sort of a voyeuristic way, but really don't want a big mixing of church and state policy wise.

[FiveGoodMen]

10. They need to make up their minds

"My perception though is that most religious Dems like to know about this personal aspect of the candidates in sort of a voyeuristic way, but really don't want a big mixing of church and state policy wise."

If this gets brought up during the campaign, then it becomes part of the campaign. And if they want to know, then apparently they care.

We get enough gossip about the private lives/personal views of celebs, we shouldn't have to get that from our politicians as well.

If moderate Dems really don't want church and government mixed, then they need to just live with their unsatisfied curiosity when they're evaluating candidates for government offices.

[lvx35]

11. Well, we aren't bothered by seeing the faith...

MLK is kind of a model, in that he shaped policy by ideas that rooted in his spiritual convictions. But the important part is that his ideas didn't clash with reason either, they could be justified in a secular framework. So if we find out Edwards has spiritual convictions that shape a reasonable push to fight poverty, it doesn't bother us. If I were a secular American, I would demand secular justification for ay policy decisions, but not worry that a politician explains them in religious terms at churches, academic terms at colleges, or cartoonish terms to children. That's just what politicians do, they try to reach everybody.

[FiveGoodMen]

12. Another way to say that is that they pander

"That's just what politicians do, they try to reach everybody."

If they reach people in a church by talking about their faith, people in that church might vote for them expecting to see said faith directly influence their official policies. (Or don't you imagine that Bush got a lot of mileage out of his 'Jesus is my favorite philosopher' lie? -- followed up by his Faith Based initiatives!)

The same people in that church are also citizens outside of the church and can be talked to without the pandering all week long. The only reason for the church setting and the church talk is to imply that the church will have influence if you're elected. And that's wrong.

MLK was not running for president. It's a lot different.

[lvx35]

13. I think you've got to look at Bush as a separate thing.

There's rumors that the Iraq war actually had some kind of religious basis in Bush's mind. What seems for damn sure to me is that it has no sound reason based on reason and fact. So if the rumors are true, that would be an example of faith going against reason and shaping policy, which is bad. On the other hand, look at global warming - there are strong secular reasons to fight it, yet there is also an evangelic movement to fight it based on stewarding the creation or whatever. So the thing is, if there is strong science backing a cause, and somebody else comes up with a spiritual narrative to back the same cause, what is the harm?

I think the basic stance of the religious left is that good policy, which can be shown to be sound at a secular level, can be inspired by God. Science shows us a problem, but we draw inspiration from this "earth stewardship" narrative to get energized to fight it. I think its fine that the candidates come to churches. If they meet them in restaurants, should it be seen as accepting the influence of the restaurant lobby?

[FiveGoodMen]

14. I'm not trying to filter people WITH beliefs out of politics

just filter those beliefs themselves out of the decision-making process.

Sure there are people on the religious left that want many of the same things that I do. If they want to take good care of the planet I'm all for it even if we have slightly different motivating factors. No problem; we can work together.

But the separation of church and state is important enough that we should just keep them separate. Really separate. Obviously, peoples' beliefs will influence their vote, but I don't want a candidate running some numbers, finding out there are way more Baptists than atheists and therefore altering their policies. And if they aren't going to do that, then there's no reason they should even bring the subject of faith up in their speeches. Which is back to my first point: if they really have to talk about it, then it really makes some kind of difference and we really don't have the separation.

And on the subject of restaurants: if they were places where people gathered to worship food, to elevate some types of food above others, to enforce the orthodoxy of their shared beliefs about that food, and to condemn certain types of food that they didn't approve of, then yes I would definitely object to campaigning in restaurants.

[lvx35]

16. hehe.

And on the subject of restaurants: if they were places where people gathered to worship food, to elevate some types of food above others, to enforce the orthodoxy of their shared beliefs about that food, and to condemn certain types of food that they didn't approve of, then yes...

Well, I don't know what kind of people you go out to eat with, but that pretty much describes exactly what my family does at restaurants. ;)

Seriously though, I'm fundamentally in agreement with you, its just about keeping an eye on the ball with the actual policies. People will always have a personal interest in the candidates and their lives. I can't count how many times I've heard about Kucinich's "hot wife"...But tis about keeping the personal personal, and faith really is personal.

[FiveGoodMen]

17. Gotcha

:toast:

[Cobalt Violet]

5. Excellent question.

They sould have to answer it if they whip out their Jesus and show it to us.

[eagler]

6. I would say "Have a nice day"

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. One good question, and one stupid one.

Christianity includes a set of moral commandments "doing these things is good, and those things is bad"; a "personal relationship with God" is not what is commanded by most interpretations of the bible.

If Christianity *were* true, then not doing your best to convert as many people as possible would be immoral.

Complaining about Christians "wearing Jesus on their sleeve" is essentially just complaining about Christians not being agnostics/atheists.



But "what do you say to the voter who is not Christian" is an excellent question. I suspect that for most Republicans, the answer is "you can't be the best kind of citizen or patriot", or something similar.

[GMFORD]

8. Using that logic

then we should want to know if they are Christian so we can avoid voting for the ones who are. I mean, who wants a president who tries to convert us to Christianity because he can't help himself?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. Good luck on that one.

No candidate for president who wasn't vigorously and noisily Christian has ever gotten anywhere.

There's been at least one Jewish vice-presidential candidate (Lieberman), though.

I'm not sure if there have ever been any irreligious senators or congressmen/women. I know there's at least one Muslim, though.

[mjjoe]

15. Lieberman

But even as a VP candidate, Lieberman made some Christians nervous. After all, he'd only be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office. Here's a "make your head explode" example of that. My sister's college roommate actually believed that if Lieberman became president, the country would shut down on Saturday because that is the Jewish holy day. Apparently pointing out that malls and stores don't close on Sunday had no effect on her.

That is the kind of insane thinking that makes so many GOP candidates scream at the top of their lungs about how they love Jesus, even as they talk with glee about executing people and bombing other countries.