Sept. 15 Rally/Protest Press Conference (Iraq Vet Adam Kokesh Arrested)

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 07:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EAfPgX7gs0   Posted on YouTube: September 06, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 07, 2007 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 3319

 
On September 6, 2007, Adam Kokesh (IVAW) and Tina Richards (Grassroots America) were arrested in Washington, D.C. for defying a federal government ban on posting promotional material for the September 15th Antiwar Rally, to be held in this city. The rally is sponsored by the ANSWER coalition. The arrests took place at the corner of H. St. and Jackson Place NW, near Lafayette Park, just north of the White House.

Mr. Kokesh is the co-chair elect of the Iraq Veterans Against the War. Marine Mom Richards is the CEO of Grassroots America. The activists placed promotional posters on a traffic box, which supposedly falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Interior and the National Parks Service. Recently, the District of Columbia government imposed draconian fines on the ANSWER coalition for placing political literature around town. As a result, the ANSWER coalition has filed a lawsuit in Federal Court challenging the Constitutionality of the local government's action. For more background on this important First Amendment issue, go to: http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageSe..., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXkow..., http://www.ivaw.org/ and http://grassrootsamerica4us.org/.

Also arrested at the scene by the Park Police was Ian Thompson. He is with the ANSWER coalition's LA division. Mr. Thompson is also an attorney.

[mike_c]

1. the fascist pigs are moving in....

Never forget.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. GMTA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1750026&mesg_id=1750026

[ananda]

3. Fascism sucks.

nt

[daninthemoon]

4. This summer I hear the drummin. I hope I can find a way to get to

DC fo the 15th. Tried their transportation link, but never got a reply.

[ryanus]

5. this really makes me mad

they want fighting in the streets, don't they? It's only a matter of time before some group decides not to be so peaceful.

Best defense is a camera.

[porkrind]

6. K&R please.

This is scary.

[MrMickeysMom]

11. You bet this is scary. A lot of cameras caught this, too.

So, if a bunch of citizens put up the same poster using wheat paste on public access, we should expect the same outcome? Sounds like this press conference should extend across America.

Where are the posters, again?

[Mortos]

7. I hate to be the voice of dissent here but...

Gluing signs to city property, regardless of whether the glue is "water based" and "biodegradable" is against the law. I don't think freedom of speech extends to defacing property. How would we feel if someone was gluing up "Suppport Bush" signs t o city property. I don't think the officer's actions were indicative of "fascism" or "pigs" out of control. They advised the demonstrators not to put the signs up, attempted to stop them once they began and then arrested them in a civil manner and appeared to treat them professionally.

In my city, we have an ordinance against putting any signage on city owned signs, poles or easements. I personally don't want to see signs for causes, advertisements, or lost dogs on city signs because they look like crap and are left there forever by the people that put them up.

Again, this is not, in my opinion, a free speech issue. If they want to post signs, they can pay for billboards or advertise the event they can advertise it for free on the internet. If they want to have a rally, there are procedures for doing that and getting city permits.

I don't agree with the draconian measures the bush administration has taken in keeping people from speaking during political events and keeping the president from hearing dissenting opinions but if we scream that every act against protesters is an act of fascism perpetrated by nazi pigs, we lose our credibility.

[Truth2Tell]

10. Pay for billboards?

$$$ for speech. Yep, that works.

[EnricoFermi]

13. Well...

They took their podium and broke up the demonstration, forcing people away with a horse. That had nothing to do with the signs.

Listen to the speech at the end. They aren't enforcing this equally, not arresting people for lost dog signs and band advertisements. It is CLEARLY an attempt to silence the protest. Look, they always use city ordinances to get their political way. It is the oldest trick in the book. Blocking sidewalks, disorderly conduct, trespassing, littering, obscenity laws. The list goes on.

A few random events:

On December 1, 1955, Rosa Parks (the "mother of the Civil Rights Movement") refused to get up out of her seat on a public bus to make room for a white passenger. Parks was arrested, tried, and convicted for disorderly conduct and violating a local ordinance.

Dr. King was arrested for breaking the state of Georgia's trespassing law while picketing. He was transferred to Reidsville State Prison but was released on $2000 bond on October 19, 1960.

CRAWFORD, Texas - A dozen war protesters, including Daniel Ellsberg, were arrested Wednesday for setting up camp near President Bush’s ranch in defiance of new local bans on roadside camping and parking.

[Riktor]

15. Novel interpretation

There's a couple ways of looking at this.

First, we've got the civil disobedience perspective. If a law is unjust, it is your duty to break it, or so Thoreau would say. One cannot say "they deserved what they got because they broke the law", as law does not dictate what is right and wrong, only what our legislators have deemed "appropriate behavior". Most of us operate on the principal that our legislators legislate in their best interest alone, and thus the motives behind said law are dubious in the eyes of the protesters. At the same time, living by civil disobedience means you BUCK UP AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN when you get caught. Thoreau did hard time for his civil disobedience. Expect it.

Second, there's the issue of the past actions of police departments. For the past... entire existence of this country... the authorities have taken a decidedly brutal stance on the issue of public demonstration. The Whiskey Rebellion, Shay's Rebellion, the Ludlow Massacre, Selma-Montgomery, Chicago '68, LA 1991, New York 2004... I simply do not have the time or patience to enumerate the instances of police or national guard overstepping their authority by going apeshit on peaceful protesters. If the police find themselves criticized as "fascists" for a relatively minor, not to mention justified, arrest, they have nobody to blame but themselves. Granted, the police are practically venerated as gods by the squares, so such accusations still make us progressives look like loonies.

This, there's a very real possibility that some people on our side of the aisle are just as stupid as those on the other side. I've been to a few tent cities, protests, and rallies and wondered whether or not I was at the right meeting.

[Mortos]

18. thank you for a measured intellectual response

I truly enjoy debate about these issues. Some people here just like to throw out ad hominem remarks and don't care to discuss the relevance or weight of specific incidents...all cops bad fascist nazi pigs...all protesters (on our side) good.

Do you think the actions of the officers involved in this particular incident rise to the level
of the Whiskey rebellion or even excessive force?

Protesters have used civil disobedience to draw attention to their cause. That is what appears to have happened here. They set out to get arrested and they were.

I really don't understand the outrage at the police. I didn't see anything in this video remotely abusive or excessive by the officers involved but hey, don't let that stop some from proposing putting the officer's names, addresses and phone numbers out there...for what purpose? Retaliation?

Is there another video of the mounted police trampling reporters or is this it?

[Riktor]

19. My thoughts on this case...

In this instance, the protesters were in the wrong, legally, and the police were doing their job. Cities create ordinances to curtail freedom of speech without explicitly doing so. For instance, New York prevented a Klan march by making it illegal to demonstrate while wearing a mask. Typically, cities require numerous permits in order to get an organized rally off the ground. You'll need a permit for a PA system, a permit to provide food, a permit to sponsor a large group of people, etc. So, it would seem the parties involved here were indeed in violation of law, and it should therefore be of no surprise that they were arrested. To be outraged by this is to lack common sense.

Furthermore, I would hardly compare this event to the more prolific instances of police crackdowns in the past. Civilians were gunned down indiscriminately at Ludlow and Kent State. People were pelted with rubber bullets and choked with tear gas at the pro-immigration rally in Los Angeles this year. The NYPD overstepped their bounds by assaulting protesters at random during the RNC in 2004. In this case, three people got booked. Worse things have happened and worse things have gone unpunished.

With that said, police departments across this nation have been so abusive to the anti-war movement that it is almost a knee-jerk reaction to paint the authorities in a negative light. For example, think of the person you hated most in high school. Was he or she really THAT bad, or did you tend to focus on their negative behaviors due to your past interactions? It is easy to assume ill intent when that has been your only experience. I'll admit quite honestly that after I saw the videos of the NYPD dragging a female teenager into the streets and repeatedly punching her in the face, I immediately felt like I hated every cop in the country. I felt the same way when I saw the videos of the LAPD firing volleys of rubber bullets into a crowd of peaceful demonstrators earlier this year.

Thus, I feel the sane position on this one is right in the middle. These guys broke the law and they got busted. That's not fascism, that's the rule of law. Now, they could have easily made this a case of civil disobedience in order to garner support for repealing the laws preventing them from demonstrating, but they didn't. Instead, we have sob stories about how abusive these police officers were for making a legally justifiable arrest, which is, after all, their job. On the other side of the coin, I can really sympathize with those who are outraged by this. Every time people get together to protest the war, some doughnut-munching, barrel-assed, Barney Fife jackass has to start trouble and start cracking skulls with his hippie-be-good, and this has being going on since 2003. Four years of this crap is enough to grate on your nerves, not to mention lose your confidence in the men and women who are supposed to be protecting you.

[Plisko]

20. They didn't break the law the cops did. Here's the ordinance

I did a little research on the laws that seem to deal with this.

Here is the relevant DC regulations I found regarding the posting of signs:

24 DCMR
108.4 Any sign, advertisement, or poster that does not relate to the sale of goods or services may be affixed on public lampposts or appurtenances of a lamppost subject to the restrictions set forth in this section.

"appurtenances" means support systems to the lamp posts such as the electric box they are posting on. The press conference was on a city street and the electric box was serving the lamp posts on that street. The restrictions for this are as follows:

24 DCMR
108.5 A sign, advertisement, or poster shall not be affixed for more than sixty (60) days, except for the following:
(a) Signs, advertisements, and posters of individuals seeking political office in the District who have met the requirements of the DC Campaign Finance Reform and Conflict of Interest Act; and
(b) Signs designed to aid in neighborhood protection from crime shall be exempt from the sixty (60) day time period.
24 DCMR
108.6 Political campaign literature materials shall be removed no later than thirty (30) days following the general election.
24 DCMR
108.7 Each sign, advertisement, or poster shall contain the date upon which it was initially affixed to the lamppost.
24 DCMR
108.8 Each sign, advertisement, or poster shall be affixed securely to avoid being torn or disengaged by normal weather conditions.
24 DCMR
108.9 Signs, advertisements, and posters shall not be affixed by adhesives that prevent their complete removal from the fixture, or that do damage to the fixture.
24 DCMR
108.10 No more than three (3) versions or copies of each sign, advertisement, or poster shall be affixed on one (1) side of the street within one (1) block.
24 DCMR
108.11 Within twenty-four (24) hours of posting each sign, adverstisement, or poster, two (2) copies of the material shall be filed with an agent of the District of Columbia so designated by the Mayor. The filing shall include the name, address, and telephone number of the originator of the sign, advertisement, or poster.
24 DCMR
108.12 For purposes of this section, a "public lamppost" is any public post erected for the purpose of supporting electric wires.

Please note that even the regestration with the city about the postings can be done within 24 hours of posting. Please also not that "public lamppost" is defined as any post erected for the purposes of supporting electric wires. This includes telephone polls, street lights, and traffic lights and all their associated "appurtenances."

These cops did not know the law if they accused them of defacing public property. The citizens told them they beleived they were acting legally and they disregarded them, physically intervened and arrested them anyway. This looks bad for the cops if you ask me.

[Cybergata]

22. Luckily Samuel Adams and . . .

Paul Revere didn't have to pay for billboards when they put up one of the greatest works of propaganda, the engraving of "the Boston Massacre." These rally signs didn't even contain slander like the "Boston Massacre" did.

From what the woman said in the video, I suspect that they already checked to make sure that what they were doing was legal. I've been at many protests that had permits, and there are always plenty of police on horseback to intimidate us. If you've never had a horse with a cop right in front of you, you don't know how intimidating this is. I've had them standing right in front of me in places I had every right to be, and it made me very uncomfortable. Luckily I've never had a police person on a horse come rushing at me the way this one did in this video. This was not necessary in this situation, especially since no one was doing anything illegal. In my experience with the police, when I've really needed one, they were very slow to come and help. One time a rapist tried to break in my house, and the police told me that I pretty much ask for it because I was living alone, and not married. I never have trouble finding them when we have a peace march or rally that has all the required permits. I believe that there are many cops out there who are trying to help people, but the first photo below I blame on the Bush administration. The amount of police that are guarding Bush when he is in town means people can freely break the law, and there won't be a police person free to stop them.




Just around the corner of our annual peace march around March 20th

[superkia]

8. I worked somewhere that forced me to take away peoples rights for politics

I would quit! When martial law is set in place, the government will have highly paid mercaneries and the ones we see in our neighborhoods everyday. Sad that people are going to sit back and watch our freedoms taken away. I hope as many people as possible find their way out on the 15th.

[Mortos]

12. I don't work "somewhere that forced me to take away people's rights"

How about debating the merits of my argument and not attacking my ethics.

Should anyone be allowed to put signs up anywhere they want for any cause or should there be some limits on what people are allowed to permanently affix to public property?

Since so many people here are anti-police, should we just disband all police and let people protect themselves and each other?

What should officers do when someone commits a crime in front of them, after being advised what they are doing is a crime and they shouldn't proceed further?

Freedom of speech encompasses alot of different things, I just don't think vandalism is a valid form of free speech...how about grafitti, is that free speech which should be left unchecked by the police department???

Some people here are so anti-establishment, down with the man types as to be charicatures of what it is to be left/liberal. I try to look at every piece of evidence with an open mind, whether or not it helps or hurts my side.

The war in Iraq is a huge debacle that has cost too many lives and too much money. It should be ended. Bush and his cronies should be held accountable. People should protest and speak their minds freely. I just don't think gluing a poster to a traffic control box really helps sway anyone....do you?

[jillan]

9. I was just going to post this video

Glad you beat me to it!

[sasquatch]

14. Find out the officers home addresses and post them on the internet

Home phone #'s too.

[Divine Discontent]

16. I'm sickened by the HOSTILE

behavior from the 1st cop that walked up and was all pompous and troublesome right at the get go - these cops LIVE for this shit - they love assaulting people, twisting arms, arresting people, riding up like a cavalier on a horse yelling things that you would attribute to 'get back you wild savages - you will not take the castle!'

sadly, many men love to get involved in the military and police force to be ABUSIVE and feel they have power and purpose in their lives -

AGAIN, I ask is there any word if Keith Olbermann or some major news people will come there tonight to report on this? To me, the cops went overboard - the signs in Miami are up everywhere for bands and such, and I've never seen anyone arrested for it, so their argument that they're being harassed seems valid to me - I would hope after the march they would go around and remove them all - but that's neither here nor there, if they're getting arrested for it, then everyone should. But yeah, I'm rather fired up by this bullshit...

I hope Kokesh and that lady, and the speaker at the end will be on Countdown or other shows later...

[WillyT]

17. K & R !!!

:mad::kick::mad:

[manomensa]

21. Arrest Bush and Cheney

The real criminals are all in the current adminstration!
http://www.youtube.com/v/24blx5Bg-x4