Tucker: Student Taser Incident (Alternate Video)

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 02:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI   Posted on YouTube: September 17, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 18, 2007 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 4230

 
September 17, 2007 - MSNBC TUCKER

[seriousstan]

1. You break away from the police and the policy is "escalated force".

You don't have to be a genius to know this. It is not a policeman's job to fight you in a fair fight. You punch and they pull a gun. They go home and you, if lucky, go to the jail. Sounds right to me.

[Bolo Boffin]

4. There shouldn't have been any force to escalate.

Jesus. The guy was asking questions.

[seriousstan]

5. No, it was clear the minute he said ~"you had two hours, I get 2 minutes~ that he was a nut.

Kerry was invited, he was not. He was allowed to speak by the leave of Kerry and the organizers. Security was at the command of both Kerry and the organizers. He doesn't get to state the "rules". When asked to leave, he should have left.

[iaviate1]

7. I believe he has a right to free speech...

Whether you or anybody else likes it or not. And I believe it was a public event so he was likely invited.

[seriousstan]

14. No he does not. If the organizers had not had a question period, he would have had no right.

The rules and conditions were in the control of Kerry and the organizers. Did you hear Kerry telling them to let him speak? NO! He was diverting attention away from the arrest. Argue that.

[iaviate1]

46. Okay, I will argue that.:

"After Meyer repeatedly and loudly refused to walk away, two officers took him by the arms. Kerry can be heard saying, "That's all right, let me answer his question."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_re_us/student_tasered;_ylt=AgHDXM.bxu3CrvlalhNclRGs0NUE

So Kerry granted him the time and he was still carried away and tased. And I believe they did have a question period. And Americans do have a right to question leaders. Please read the articles and watch the clip before making up things and challenging others to argue about them.

[tired_old_fireman]

11. The guys asked three really valid questions.

I don't think he was a nut.

The use of the taser was police brutality. He was being held down by five cops. If they couldn't slap the cuffs on him without the taser, they should find another line of work. I hate that I have to agree with Tucker. I feel dirty.

[Bolo Boffin]

30. So?

So f***ng what?

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?id=981

Go watch this and then watch these clips again.

I've seen the entire thing, from the point at which the questioner was recognized. He vented a little bit, and right at the point that he was about to allow Kerry to speak, the police turned it into an incident. There was a better way to handle the entire situation, and the cops were in complete control of how they provoked the guy.

You heard me. They found his buttons and they pushed them until they "had to" taze him.

This is bullshit. He was not that agitated. He was not being that disruptive, not when the police grabbed him. People demanding answers from their elected officials should be protected from this kind of reactionary bootstamping.

Case in point: I disagree completely with virtually every argument of the 9/11 Truth movement. I actively work to answer their arguments. And my tactics haven't always been the best, and that documentary about Noam Chomsky has clued me in to that. But I have never, never advocated that these people should be silenced by force, even the ones who personally offend me the most. "Defend to the death your right to say it," right?

Right?

[seriousstan]

34. You have the right to speak, I have the right not to listen. You don't have the right to disrupt.

That is civil disobedience and that has consequences. This idiot may stand on the street corner, or in his front yard, and talk to himself almost endlessly if he wishes. He does not have the right to the mike at a scheduled speech. The organizers control that mike and control the event. If they ask for someone to be removed you should take that up with the organizers...LATER...not fight the police. The outcome of this was obvious.

[iaviate1]

6. I didn't see a punch.

In fact, I saw his hands go straight up to indicate he was not a threat. Like Tucker said, they couldn't cuff him?

[seriousstan]

13. I didn't see a gun. He broke away from the police. You are a fool if you don't know what comes next.

The policy is, and rightfully so, to escalate the force. Don't break free from the grip of the police unless you are sure you are going to get away. Once again, only a fool wouldn't know this.

[iaviate1]

47. Police should escalate the force?

I always thought they were supposed to defuse situations before resulting to force? And even then, to use the minimum amount of force possible. I have to ask, would you support "disruptors" being shot at if they manage to break away from the police? You're all about escalation of force, but where do you draw the line?

[bjobotts]

27. Click "what Tucker doesn't want you to know" and link to entire video

[bjobotts]

28. You will see why the security did what they did..Tucker didn't show it all

[saracat]

2. How many of these videos do we need? There are four floating around!

[Bolo Boffin]

3. Fascists.

And for a minute there, I was thinking we would have to give Tucker and his reporter some kudos, but no, they turn it into a John Kerry joke, laugh it off, and keep rolling towards the commercial.

[W T F]

8. What Tucker doesn't want you to know

is how the guy posed the question to Kerry so he left it out. here's the clip with the question.

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

[Hulk]

18. The guy was just being an obnoxious jerk off.

He was just trying to disrupt the event. His questions were meant to be a slap in the face of allegations regarding Kerry winning the election in 2004...and I even forget his other two dumb ass questions. Some people just love to create a disturbance. I'm all for free speech, but one can have your cake and eat it too if you don't take away someone else's freedom of speech also.

[othermeans]

20. Thanks for the link. I read some of the comments and it turns out that

the student attempted to speak out of turn and refused to let senator Kerry answer the previous question and kept ranting when he tried to answer his question out of turn. The indication to me that he was a jerk was that the other students cheered when he was being led away.

[bjobotts]

21. After watching the complete video clip...WHAT'D I DO? WHAT'D I DO

WHAT YOU DID smart ass was keep screaming loud enough to totally disrupt the proceedings and you knew when you were doing it that's why you kept screaming like you were being victimized...You wanted to totolly disrupt the discussion. You weren't giving Kerry a chance to answer even when he started to...you questioned by ambush and then dance around screaming like a little kid as loudly as you could.

What I'd do?...you knew damn well what you were doing...forcing a confrontation...disrupting the talk...and being a genuine smart ass...in spite of how pertinent your questions might have been.

"Everybody shut up and look at me...I'm the victim here...look at what I'm making them do to me...I SAID, LOOK AT WHAT I'M MAKING THEM DO TO ME..HELP HELP HELP. STFU

[Cybergata]

42. If you hadn't done anything wrong, . . .

and a group of police clad in armor with weapond, wouldn't you be screaming and asking WHY as well? Since when is defending yourself a crime? Since when is being annoying a crime? Since when is asking tough questions a crime? Since when is asking multiple questions a crime? You better believe that I would scream as loudly as I could if I had been the young man in the video. It is called self-defense, and is the only means of self-defense against those with more power than yourself. I also would use that video to sue the police. It was uncalled for. We all are the victims because the police stopped him during some very pertinent questions. Just who will ask those questions if this is the result?

[bjobotts]

25. The rest commenting need to watch the whole thing.Click link above this.

[Donkeykick]

9. Well...

I have seen numerous times when this happened at a GOP gathering as well. I think that it is the way the cops handle these matters more than the candidates themselves that are involved with them. :shrug:

[Mosaic]

10. This is huge

This is huge, I hope to see more of the outcome of this case than more OJ crap. I really feel for the student, he is not a nut but a hero more like it.

[tired_old_fireman]

12. He is a hero to me too.

I hold him in as high regard as the guy who told Cheney to go fuck himself. These politicians need to be forced to interact with angry citizens. Not all of us lead their life of privilege and we would like a little more from them then sterilized sound bites.

[seriousstan]

15. So do I, but I'll bet for totally different reasons.

[bjobotts]

23. You need to watch the "complete" video. I changed my mind when I saw the whole thing

[Cybergata]

40. I watched the complete video, and . . .

I think the cops were very wrong. Someone mentioned on the discussion on the link page, "Since when is it illegal to be annoying in this country?" or something like that. Politicians are not giving us straight answers, so we need to use or time to speak to make sure that the questions we have aren't brushed off. Yes the guy was a bit "high strung," but he also seemed very afraid. I would be too, especially if I was simply trying to make sure all my questions were heard, and suddenly a "gaggle" of cops in black armor and weapons descended upon me.

With that said, I was at a peace rally this week-end, and the police were trying very hard to provoke us. The majority of the crowd was 40 to 80 years old, and we didn't react to their strutting through the crowd or the huge horses that pushed us aside, so they picked on one person. We all started questioning their action in a very polite and calm manner. They were trying very hard to pick a fight. In this country, the police seem to be following orders to try to discredit the anti-war movement. Even more broadly, they are trying to intimidate anyone who QUESTIONS? This is very dangerous, and whether you like this young man in this video or not, he was a victim of police INTIMIDATION! We all are. How many people will not ask the hard questions or go to peace rallies after they have seen videos like this or experience the abuse we received at the ralley I was at? I guarentee the older women with walkers will be back, but will the younger people with children?

[bjobotts]

26. It's pretty petty if you watch it all.Click "what Tucker didn't want you to see"

[bjobotts]

16. We didn't see it all. But cops in this country think they have to handcuff everyone

Hate cops that always want to subdue without asking questions. They gear up for it.
The guy had a pad and paper in hand and was questioning by ambush...if he just would have shut up long enough Kerry was going to answer his question and let him talk, but he was not civil enough to allow Kerry to intervene in what was happening to him and Kerry doesn't control the security.
Bush would have had him arrested before he ever opened his mouth

Cops and security are so quick to use force, they moved in with hands out and on the guy before even seeing if that was going to be necessary. The whole incident "looked" like it could have been prevented. But like I said, we didn't see it all. We don't know what was going on or for how long before what we were shown on the news clip.

Like the frog in the pot with water slowly coming to a boil we don't really notice how much of a police state we are already living in. From street camera surveillance to cop swarming by swivel eyed insects that want to bring you captive to the bench calling it a job well done to censorship of public dissent to the building of FEMA camps for future use to FISA's Protect America Act, the MAC, and the Patriot Act, there is not much left before the frog jumps or dies. We just didn't see it coming because it happened a little at a time, innocently, for our own security. One day some sinister power mad sociopath will take advantage of it and connect all the dots for total control. Welcome to the Police state...papers please.

[DUyellow]

17. Kerry needs to be on TV tomorrow coming down hard on UF

you can't ask a fucking question any more? or ten annoying questions?

[seriousstan]

22. Why are you giving him till tomorrow? Shouldn't he have stood up at the time.

I think there was more than enough time. Personally. I think the questioner was an ass, but why would you give Kerry until tomorrow when he had more than enough time when it was happening. I mean, was he reading "My Pet Goat" or what?

[sui generis]

37. because Kerry needs time to take a poll to see what he thinks

Ridiculous event.

Seriously, there are sharks in the ocean, it's a given. What counts is not that we piss and moan about the sharks, the people who disagree with us, but how we navigate the waters ourselves.

If Kerry can't navigate even a simple issue like this, it's just further proof that he would have made a bad president. We need people who are fast on their feet and Kerry could have made hay out of this by stepping in to "save" the little shit.

And eight fat lardasses unable to control a single man without resorting to weaponry are incompetent to do their job. They should all be fired.

[DUyellow]

19. So many things are shocking in this video, but the worst...

How the students applauded as he was getting arrested. They took joy in the fact that he was getting arrested for being annoying.
Shame on them.

[Marlie]

24. He has his own website - link for article he published in July

http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/columns/iraq_the_media_and_shannons_dad.asp

He just seems like a very politically passionate young man. Don't think he was intentionally
looking to stir up this storm.

[TheMadMonk]

31. Fucking good on them. They were there to hear Kerry not this idiot.

One man's free speech ends right at the very point where it interferes with the free speech of another. One day idiots like this, might actually manage to wrap their tiny little mings around the concept that free speech is for all, and not just for them.

BTW he was not arrested for being annoying. When the cops arrest you, they Miranndise you. The police were at that time, merely escorting him from the "meeting". This bloke then proceeded to "push back" and every time the police contained him, he "pushed" that little bit harder, forcing them to escalate. For crying out loud, his: "Please don't taze me." made him sound as if he had the same voice coach as Brer Rabbit.

From where I stand, this bloke looked like he deliberately set about creating a confrontation with the cops. AND that he micromanaged the escalation right up to the point of his own tasering.


To put it bluntly. One moment he is "making life difficult" for the cops, (digging his heels in, going limp or rigid and so on, and then the next he is in perfect control of himself whilst "demonstrating" his lack of resistance.

And the final insult is that his performance, steals from true victims of police brutality.

[Cybergata]

43. There were a few who were speaking up, but just a few.

You can see it from a different perspective on Daily KOS at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/125041/427

[bluestateguy]

29. College campus cops are not the pick of the litter in the police profession

There's a reason why real police are out there fighting real crime and college campus cops are doing the night shift running security at frat parties.

As annoying as this little gadfly was, I can't justify what was done in this episode.

[California Griz]

32. You can hear Kerry say wait (to the police) I'll answer the question

I think the police were way out of line. They had the guy down on the ground I saw no need to zap him.

[sui generis]

36. exactly. they used the opportunity as a training exercise

Misapplication of force. I think he is a self serving little shit. But so were the security personnel, so I hope the scrutiny costs somebody their job since they're not to be trusted with a weapon.

[Cybergata]

45. I still don't see why the police were arresting him in the first place. n/t

[stlsaxman]

33. Why didn't Mr. Kerry descend from his podium and see to the guy? EDITED-

Sure he was annoying but- damn!

Kerry just stood there and let them pummel the guy?

Guess you got our back, eh, John?

on edit- OK, i see now the guys a self serving little shit looking for fame and glory for his insignificant little website. But still- escort him from the room- but Taz him??

[underpants]

35. Gee Tucker could a guy like that even be ALLOWED into a W event?

Tucker standing up for the little guy huh? :silly:

[BeliQueen]

38. the problem with this story is that...

...it's another case of selective media coverage for a middle class white kid being Tasered.

Yet, a black preacher was assaulted in the halls of the Capitol and I haven't seen that on CNN yet.

Why is it that one deserves National attention but the other gets buried? And that's rhetorical.

[subsuelo]

44. good point

thanks for bringing that up

[ralbertson]

39. Kerry's statement, & more of the story as seen from the stage itself:

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/18/125041/427

[Cybergata]

41. " I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."

I think that says it all. If I were in the same position, I would have yelled as loudly as I could while going limp to the floor. I'm embarrassed for the young people at the event. No one stood up for the rights of this young man. His crime? Being passionate about how the Republicans cheated in the election. I'm glad someone is passionate about. How can we just sit by silently when election after election is manipulated into the people's choice ending up the looser? I'm angry that more people aren't passionate about this!!!

BTW, if Samuel Adams and other patriots hadn't broken the laws and been down right rude, would the War for Independence taken much longer to happen? I reminded you that this young man did not break any laws.

[Progressive Friend]

48. As I said in the other thread about this...

If this had happened in another country, Americans would be yelling about "totalitarianism". Yet when it happens in the USA, many brainwhashed people simply blame the dissident for getting brutalized. Think about that the next time you feel that the USA is a "free, open and democratic society" or "a city on a hill" or "a model for the rest of the world to follow."