Cut This! Cut That! We're Spending 8 Billion Dollars A Month On A War That Can't Be Won!

[democracy1st]

Run time: 04:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytIEQLZbkH0   Posted on YouTube: April 05, 2011 By YouTube Member: MoxNewsDotCom Views on YouTube: 312   Posted on DU: April 06, 2011 By DU Member: democracy1st Views on DU: 5258

 
Representative Walter B. Jones

http://jones.house.gov/


Must See Rep. Jones is a good republican.

[TatonkaJames]

1. Wow ! A true American and a member of Congress

I really like this guy. Thanks for posting. If all members were like Jones and not lawyers and corporate puppets, we'd be better off.
Here's why he has no chance at making a difference;

From Wikipedia;
In an annual survey conducted by Washingtonian magazine, Congressional staffers voted Jones the "kindest" member of the House.

Especially in Washington, the adage goes; nice guys finish last.

[snappyturtle]

2. Thanks for posting some reason and thought coming out of Congress...

may Rep.Jones and like minds prevail. Big ol' K&R

[slay]

3. A rare good Republican - in general - supports medical marijuana here in NC

yeah i don't understand why he is loyal to the repubs.. then again i heavily question my loyalty to the Dems at this point too..

[WhoIsNumberNone]

4. This guy's a Republican?

I bet the Gops call him a RINO behind his back...

[EJSTES2005]

30. He is actually one of 2 reps who started the "freedom fry" BS

back in 2003 when the French refused to support the war...he sure has come a long way... I wonder what it was that changed a lot of his opinions??? On the war, head-start, and others...Maybe someone can get him on a "Change" of heart speaking tour?

Well said Congressman Jones!!!

[freshwest]

36. Apparently, he actually REPENTED of his support. Better late than never. Or is it politics?

If his intentions are clean, he'll be okay with his own god.

If not, he better put that asbestos suit on layaway.

He's working with Kucinich and Paul, a good sign there.

I applaud anything to make this crap stop!

[SemperEadem]

5. now, what would be the effect

if he had ended by asking Allah to bless this and bless that?

The floor of the House is not a pulpit, dude. Save the preaching for church.

[DaDeacon]

8. God ....really!

Out of all he said that was spot on! You get on his "God bless"? For real? Grow up and accept that other think different from you. Comment on the budget, the war, his hair but to make a cheep shot at the guy for saying God, what a small thing to get hung on.

[SemperEadem]

10. no, why don't you try growing up first?

I will comment on what I goddamned well please. You have my permission to act like an adult and use the ignore feature if you don't like it. But you do not tell me or anyone else here what they may say here. Got it?

The difference between this dude and Kucinich is that Kucinich has no need to interject his personal religious beliefs into his speeches on the floor of the House.

[A Simple Game]

25. Who damned well please?

You need to decide if god should be invoked or not.

Looks hypocritical to condemn someone for invoking god and then do it yourself.

[abqmufc]

44. Separation of Church and State?

Yep he made great sense about the budget and the war. Yep he made me think twice about Republicans, heck any member of Congress (Democrats included) b/c he made some sense.

But having 3 degrees in Political Science (BA, MA, PhD) I am baffled how his final comments are not censored and stricken from the record for violating Church and State.

You've got 563 federally recognized Tribes in the USA who have rights too and they all were doing just find before the white man created acts of genocide b/c we where considered "heathens" and need to find the true God.

[NM Independent]

13. I agree...

Your intolerance is showing. "God Bless" is nothing more than a usually quite genuine statement of polite parting words, not an interjection of faith. GTFOver it.

[howmad1]

27. Oh bullshit:

If god really cared, he/she would never have had us in Iraq/Afganistan/Libya, etc. Looks to me like god loves war. Then people will continue praying to this imaginary dude, who could care less about ending war. And why the fuck should this imaginary dude always bless America? What the hell is wrong with blessing the entire world, if only he could. God is a crock of crap.

[Plucketeer]

32. Thank you!

Gods of all sorts - they DO NOT EXIST. Imagine what WE could do if we stopped waiting for these gods to step in - or we stopped doing things on their behalf as we imagine they'd want us to. 9/11 NEVER would've happened if it had been just 19 idiots bent on raising hell. Surely - as our (official) god would/will reward us accordingly (think of that whole camel thru the eye of a needle thang), those 19 are busy with their bevy of virgins. Of course, if you buy into those fantasies, then begging god three times on our dime, is time well spent.

[abqmufc]

46. Then just say "Bless"...

563 federally recognized tribes were doing just fine before the white man came and committed acts of genocide and got away with it b/c we where "heathens" who didn't know the true god. Sorry Mother Earth and Father Sky took care of us for many generations before the white man brought his god and his ways to us.

thanks.

[SharonAnn]

21. It's a southern thing. More cultural than religious.

[Chef Eric]

34. Here is what everybody else heard: "Let's bring the troops home."

Here is what you heard: "Blah blah blah blah GOD blah blah blah blah GOD."

[abqmufc]

47. Not me, I heard a great speech and words that violate Church and State

It should have been censored. I base this on my BA, MA, and PhD in American Politics. It is a violation of Church and State.

Indigenous peoples of North America (Indian Tribes/First Nations) did just fine before the white man showed up here, carried out acts of genocide against my ancestor, and were allowed to justify it b/c we where "heathens". To this day we are still called that. if we keep our traditional ways. We were just fine with Mother Earth and Father Sky before the white man's God showed up, thank you very much.

So considering religious freedom does not exist in this county as most will claim, and considering we do have a separation of church and state he should have just said, "bless the troops, bless the families", etc etc.

His comments were great! Hell he made me think twice of my views towards all GOP...heck all members of Congress.

[Chef Eric]

49. You couldn't be more wrong.

First of all, a congressman, speaking for himself on the House floor, does NOT violate the separation of church and state by saying "God bless" this or "God bless" that. If you don't believe me, then I suggest you contact the good hard-working people at Americans United for Separation of Church and State. However, I should warn you; you should be prepared to be ignored. They simply don't have time for frivolous complaints.

Are you a member of A.U.? Do you bother to read their newsletters? I do, and I think you should too. I'm sure you would learn a few things about genuine church-and-state issues.

By the way, I never thought that the indigenous people were heathens.

[abqmufc]

50. I appreciate your views,

I don't intend to seek some legal action, my comment was my personal comment based upon my education and life-experiences. It was defense to someone (again) having their personal views invalidated on a posting @ D-U. I stood up to say she/he was not the only person who felt in such a way.

I completely agree with you, if I did have any intent to contact the organization you listed, a similar organization, or some private attorney I should be prepared to be ignored. Unfortunately, I'd chalk this incident and others like it as to something that is illegal but accepted. It happens all the time. And as you said on the scale of infringements of Church and State this is deemed minor by many and has been done w/o penalty so often in this country's history that you can't start censoring people now when precedent has already been established to allow it. I would argue that if a Muslim Congressional member said "Allah Bless" we'd have a fire storm in the media. If I was elected to represent my state of New Mexico and said "May Father Sky and Mother Earth Bless..." I am certain we'd have a fire storm in the media, that later happens often at the NM Round House (State Capital) when a Tribal leader says such a comment.

I am not a member of the group you mentioned, as an anarchist I am not a member of anything. I am a citizen of a Tribe, a citizen of the USA (by default). With so many groups and causes in the world I was not aware of this group and thus will now check their publications out, thank you for that information.

I am glad you have not considered me our indigenous peoples as heathens, sadly US government law, standing Supreme Court case law, and standing Executive Orders don't see it the same way, nor do most missionaries, priests, ministers, or other people of "the cloth". Despite what we may think the law still calls us heathens and that perception is carried out every day between the federal government and Tribes.

However, what I don't get is your tone, it is tough to infer people's emotions in emails, and text...but I sense your comments are made with some genuine hostility....I hope I am wrong. But such a comment like "I'm sure you would learn a few things about genuine church and state issues." is rather offensive as you make a rather harsh assumption.

As I said, I've spent over 12 years studying American political science, to the extent I have 3 degrees all from UofA(z) and NAU. No my speciality was not in such issues, but rather environmental policy, but to obtain a PhD in political science one does have to know a thing or two about separation of church and state.

Be well...

[Chef Eric]

52. You're right. My tone could have (and should have) been friendlier.

I agree that we would have a firestorm in the media if "non-Christian" religious ideas were presented, even casually, on the floor of the House.

People in the media like to talk about freedom OF religion, but when faced with religious ideas that they don't like or understand, they suddenly remember that freedom FROM religion is every bit as important. I happen to find this selective memory very disturbing.

I guess it all boils down to getting the right balance between "freedom of religion" and "freedom from religion," and applying that balance consistently and fairly. It is not an easy thing for a society to do, especially when there is so much misinformation being spread in the media.

[abqmufc]

51. From your website given.....

I found a Q&A for the following 'question' it is the closest I can find to the topic at hand on their site.

Legislative Prayer: Can legislatures open meetings with prayers?
"Government is generally forbidden to deliver, sponsor, orchestrate, or encourage prayers. Since the nation's founding, however, many legislatures have traditionally opened their meetings with prayer. Given this historical tradition, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that legislative prayers are constitutionally permissible if, but only if, they do not use language or symbols specific to one religion. (Courts have held, however, that elected school boards are different than legislatures, and are forbidden to open their sessions even with nonsectarian prayers.) Furthermore, prayergivers at legislative sessions may not exploit the prayer opportunity to proselytize or advance any one, or to disparage any other, faith or belief. A number of federal courts of appeals have thus held that sectarian prayers (i.e., prayers using language specific to one faith) before legislatures or other representative bodies are unconstitutional. One court, with jurisdiction over Alabama, Georgia, and Florida, has taken a more limited view, concluding that sectarian prayers in legislatures are permissible as long as they do not proselytize.

Even apart from using sectarian language, there are many ways that legislative prayer might impermissibly proselytize, advance, or disparage a particular faith. Those who do not wish to be present for a prayer must be allowed to leave and may not be excluded from participating in the rest of the meeting. And those who do not wish to stand or bow their head for the prayer must be allowed to remain seated and must not otherwise be penalized for their nonconformity. A prayer practice may also be unconstitutional if a legislative body selects prayergivers based on their faith or excludes some faith groups from offering prayers. Thus, if a legislative body invites clergy to deliver prayers, it should strive to invite a wide variety of faiths and should instruct the prayergivers to make their prayers nonsectarian, ecumenical, and inclusive of minority faiths."

http://www.au.org/issues/faqs.html?issue_sub_category=government-sponsored-prayer#faq-question-can-legislative-or-other

To me by saying God, I infer him to mean the Christian God, the god who says all other gods are wrong and if you don't follow me you are a heathen. I'd also make the argument that his final comments where indeed a short prayer.


thanks.

[Chef Eric]

53. I don't think your argument would stand up in any court.

You say that the Christian God "says that all other gods are wrong." Perhaps you are right about that. However, we are discussing what the Congressman said, not what the Christian God says.

There is no real proselytizing going on here. The Congressman is not saying that you should believe in his God, only that he wants his God to bless us. Nor is he disparaging any particular religion.

[abqmufc]

55. Agreed, my perception would not be the majority perception

I can't argue that one, it would be a stretch to make such a case...but hey I'm unemployed with time on my hands so I think about such things.

To me it just should be said as "Bless our Troops, Bless their families, Bless the USA".....99% of those listening I suspect will automatically add "God" into the statement subliminally. The other 1% will be content that God was not stated. A win-win on the House floor....when does that happen?

[freshwest]

37. He's free to speak whatever inspires him. So long as he's against war, he's cool for that.

[abqmufc]

43. THANK YOU! Great ideas, but violation of Church and State there?

He made great comments, but I thought the same thing. How was his final comments not censored for violating Church and State?

[90-percent]

6. My Congressman

My congressman is John Larson out of East Hartford CT. He is a former high school teacher and coach. He had a Congress on your Corner session about 2 Saturdays ago in downtown Hartford at Stackpole Moore Tryon Tuesday’s, which sells clothes.

I hovered around John for 2-1/2 hours and here's my point:

I would say only about 10-15 constituents came. Many know John personally and one was thanking John for coming to his son's funeral recently. It sounded like the son died while in the military. I go see John as much as my life allows and I clearly remember my first Town Hall meeting in March (January?) 2003 in West Hartford. I told John and the audience that the upcoming invasion of Iraq was bogus before it started.

This man's patriotic son would still be with us if people like me had been more effective in influencing our elected reps. Pretty sure John did vote no. He's generally pretty good on anti-war. It was just so sad that the tragedy was so matter of fact. They could have been talking about a new garden or TV show, but it was about a young man's life cut short for stupid unnecessary perpetual wars.

Of course the people don't want war!

-90% Jimmy

[russspeakeasy]

28. Actually there are some who do want war.

Hard to believe, but there is.

[90-percent]

54. I know the type

They are actually all over the place. At the start of our senseless 21st century wars, I remember people talking about simply turning the Middle East into a sea of glass via nuclear weapons. Nonchalantly, like stepping on an ant.

What ever the problem, violence is the solution!

-90% Jimmy

[Charleston Chew]

7. more like this guy, K&R

How or why would anyone argue these points?

I will have Congressman Jones on my radar from now on.

http://jones.house.gov/

[dotymed]

9. Again, the MAJORITY of Americans

are against these unending wars. We are for taxing the wealthy and cutting military spending.
We must Unite and let our Representatives know in no uncertain terms. If you vote against our will, we will fire you.

[spooked911]

16. yes-- too bad our representatives simply don't represent us

obviously they are far too beholden to the military-industrial complex

[slipslidingaway]

11. knr nt

[humanityisfree]

12. More like Jones?

Are there more Republicans like this man? Who speak their mind and their conscious and not the talking points email blasted out to the memebrship every morning? Lets hope so - because really, in the near term, our country depends on this kind of rational thinking on the wars.
I'm not sure what his other positions are, but on this one, he and I agree.
thanks for posting

[spooked911]

17. there are some, like Ron Paul

the problem is there just aren't enough, even combined with anti-war dems

[humanityisfree]

14. contradiction?

http://jones.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=233873

[spooked911]

18. sort of, but it probably meant jobs for his district

[sarcasmo]

15. 8 Billion on the one war, how many more Billions on Iraq and now Syria?

Good to hear someone speak some common sense for a change.

[DeSwiss]

19. A corrupt leader in Afghanistan?

Capitalism is cancer. So of course they're all corrupt! It was the corrupt leaders of America who put this corrupt leader of Afghanistan into power! What would anyone expect of him but more corruption!?! Duh!!!

- The stench of these so-called leaders of the world today is becoming overwhelming.

K&R

[Amonester]

20. Yep. They (almost) all swim in "special interests money" pools.

(Almost), because when some of them don't, it's not too long before they're kicked out the (supposedly) people's door (re: Alan Grayson).

[NCcoast]

22. Amen brother Jones

Wow, a tar hill republican I can actually have a little respect for, unlike Mike McIntyre (Dixiecrat, NC).

As I recall Jones was one of the first and few republicans to turn on Bush in the war with Iraq as well.

[think]

23. Bring the troops home and end the military industrial

corporate malfeasance......

[MJJP21]

24. If there were

more republicans like this the Dems would be finished.

[SoapBox]

26. ...but the RushThugs and T.HATERbaggers LOVE to kill people...

...war...taking away healthcare...

No difference to them...they loves them that killing!

Oh, except for a few cells involved in an abortion (but they will
kill the mother under various circumstances.)

[MichiganVote]

29. Nice to know somebody has some sense in DC

[butterfly77]

31. Amen...

[Plucketeer]

33. WOW! A Pub with a conscience

Whooda thunk??? Wonder just how much recompense he's turning down from defense contractors? Of course, he could talk like this - confident that the rest of his clan ain't gonna do anything anyway.

[freshwest]

35. Amazing! An anti-war GOPher for seniors and kids?

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. Will anyone listen?

[truedelphi]

39. It is good to realize that there are some

Decent Republicans out there.

My parents were such. It took my dad a long long time to realize that the Republican party had become a lot more devoted to the greedy and the wealthy rather than to the working class.

Maybe this man will help change the Republicans back to the party as it was under Eisenhower, or maybe he will come over to the Democratic side of things, but it is sure is good hearing some painful truths spoken on the floor of the House.

[Island Blue]

40. Walter Jones is my representative.

For those who aren't familiar with him, he was a Democrat before he was a Republican. (Granted, he was a Blue Dog Democrat before they were actually called that, but he was a Democrat nonetheless) His father served as my district's representative for many years. Jones Jr. took over his father's house seat when Jones Sr. died. Jones Sr. was also a Democrat and a rather progressive one at that - at least for eastern North Carolina. Walter Jones isn't perfect. He helped coin the phrase "Freedom Fries" for example, and he's is very conservative on issues such as abortion, etc.

Since his initial post 9-11 craziness however, he's spoken out many times against the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. (He's been doing this for quite awhile, way before President Obama took office.) One thing that I have to give him props for is that he has taken the time and had the courage to visit with wounded soldiers as well as with the families of dead soldiers. His district includes several military bases and he has attended many funerals - far more than most representatives, senators or presidents have done.

All things considered, he's not the worst representative one could have. I doubt he will ever be voted out of office (even if he were to switch back to the Democratic party) so I'm glad that he's come to his senses during these past few years, at least when it comes to important issues like he's talking about here.

[Dj13Francis]

41. Ho - lee - crap!!!

When did Republiassclowns start making sense and speaking the truth?

Somebody better show this guy what letter is next to his name. I think he forgot.

davidjamesfrancis.com

[moose65]

42. He's a decent guy because he used to be a Democrat!

He served in the NC legislature for a long time as a Democrat. Some of that sense must still be with him!

[SadPanda]

45. I would like it if there will intelligent threads on DU about what a complete withdrawal would mean

Ten years in most rational observers would agree that this isn't a "Winning" war. Obama tried to pump up the force but the bottom line is that the population in Afghanistan is TOTALLY FUCKING CRAZY. Ten years of Russian led massacres seriously fucked up their ability to deal with anything. Then the Taliban. Then 9/11 and basically the entire country has been some sort of war zone for 30 years.

But how does a real pullout work? You have to take every Afghanistan or Pakistan refugee with you. That's a bottom line. As a country we cannot abandon the individuals that have attempted to help us. We're talking about almost ten years. There is a reason why over 75% of nail salons in the US are owned by Vietnamese refugees. Take a trip to a California casino sometime.

Have to provide some sort of viable economic strategy for people in the region.

Just to note, the strategy of bringing Vietnamese expats to the United States was highly profitable in all phases of social, diplomatic, and economic thought. We profited economically from their work. There is a current embassy operating on a friendly status in Vietnam. Thousands of Americans currently travel to Vietnam yearly. In peace. And almost all Americans have encountered Vietnamese immigrants within the last few years.

[ErikJ]

48. And may God Forgive us

should have been his last line.

[xchrom]

56. well said congressman.

that is one of maybe a handful of times i have ever said that about a republican.