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apples and oranges Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:24 PM
Original message
Trying to reason with a (far left) non-voter
 
Run time: 04:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qU3oyvNACs
 
Posted on YouTube: September 01, 2011
By YouTube Member: obaggers
Views on YouTube: 1
 
Posted on DU: September 01, 2011
By DU Member: apples and oranges
Views on DU: 3746
 
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. He's even got the nerdy owl glasses too
A good many Nader voters I knew in 2000 looked like that too.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. You should post this tomorrow day time.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. notice how this isnt constructive?
Edited on Wed Aug-31-11 11:59 PM by iamthebandfanman
just more jabbing at people who dont agree with you 100%.
yeah, im sure thatll bring people over!

keep it up.

oh thats right, thats ur intention to drive people away.. cause youre not really a democrat!
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PonyJon Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Vote a STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC TICKET
ApplesAndOranges video post is spot on. Send a message to Obama that we want him to crush the republiCONs by giving him a SOLID DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY and a second term with no reelection worries. Any primarying bullshit posts here are by Rethug trolls. Now we have a real chance VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATICE TICKET.
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nonoxy9 Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. You mean like we did in 2008?! That worked out great!!!
And don't give me that "we didn't have a real majority" bullshit! If the Dems that are in there now had the white house and 90% majorities they would still be afraid of the Repubs or sell out. Actions speak louder than words.
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. well done!
Yes this is all I have been saying to the super left!
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BrightSideOfLife Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. I will not reward failure, mediocrity or dishonesty.
Edited on Thu Sep-01-11 12:25 AM by BrightSideOfLife
When a real democrat runs for president, I will support that person and vote for them. Hell, I will even canvas door to door like I did for Obama last election. But i will not support a DINO just because "the other side is worse."
Your basic argument is that we should support Mussolini because he wasn't as bad a Hitler.
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deadinsider Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exactly...
It is interesting how the majority (I'm speculating but believe I could back it up) on DU think Bush 'stole' the 2000 election? I would also risk guessing that a 99.99% majority also oppose Citizens United and support Campaign Finance Reform.

If I am correct, does this not undermine the whole 'every vote counts' meme? One, the vote tallies can be manipulated. Two, the masses can be manipulated.

After Obama I will no longer depend on mere rhetoric to sway me. I was convinced to be less cynical despite my concerns regarding his former affiliation with the DLC. Now I will again depend on an informed decision regarding a candidates past affiliations. And no, I'm not talking about Reverend Wright. I could care less, and actually, agreed with a lot the Reverend was saying anyway!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. SCOTUS.
Just sayin'.

Also, imagine if we really did vote at a 75% + clip.
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. If Obama had an (R) by his name, would you vote for him?
Even if he had the exact same policies?

He'd fit right in with them. He even had two Republicans in his cabinet: Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner (turned Independent for Political reasons) and former Secretary of Defense Robert Michael Gates. The Republicans didn't make him do that.

It's not like the Republicans made President Obama into a war monger either. But some folks think we should look the other way and vote for a war criminal - hell no. I won't be complicit in rewarding that crap.

The next Democratic President would hopefully learn a lesson and actually behave as a Democrat if President Obama loses - at least if he/she is smart. At least the voters can learn a lesson and not elect another phony like Obama. We can start with the next election.

So would you vote for Obama if he had an (R) by his name?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. So what about the 2 years when Obama had a fully Democratic Congress?
I noticed that you "conveniently" left that part out. You don't explain why he sucked so hard back then when he gave BIG PHARMA a pass, and then later dealt away the single-payer/universal option after having campaigned (and receiving votes and support) for it. Of course I suppose you could always go with the famous: I was a victim of the "Blue-Dogs Defense".

Nor does the video cover the part about why he made so many appointments of Repuke banksters and corporate assholes into his administration. Or why he almost totally abandoned almost all of his other "previous positions." You can't blame a divided Congress for not passing proposals and/or legislation that was never submitted to them, right? Those were his calls, nobody else's. Okay? Not unless you're saying John Boehner made him do that too!?!?

As a result of his wholesale abandonment of his campaign promises and platforms, along with that "glass half-full" Bullshit Bi-partisanship pose he had assumed from the start, he ended up losing the House of Representatives. And what happens?, The Firebaggers get blamed for his losses. And I suppose you see this video as some sort of a outreach? Designed to encourage shame The Firebgaggers back into the fold? By pointing how inconsiderate they are? Illogical? And narrow-minded?

But something was missing. Hmmmm.... Ah! I know! Where were the threats of President Rick Perry with another set of shit-covered cowboy boots propped up on a desk in the Oval Office? Or worse -- the psychological scarring of our minds with thoughts of Sarah and the Wasilla Hillbillies in the East Room eating nachos and dripping cheese sauce on the carpets? You might want to try again.

- And next time if you're to excoriate others regarding their position on Obama, you could at least tell the WHOLE truth and not just the bits that support your POV......

"I will promise you this: that if we haven't gotten our troops out by the time I'm president it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. I will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama, October 27, 2007 (And yet 50,000 http://www.neontommy.com/news/2011/03/us-involvement-iraq-uncompromising-8-years">US troops remain to this day - along with 100,000 civilian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide">"security contractors")

"Close down Guantanamo, restore habeas corpus, say no to renditions, no to wireless wiretaps..." - Barack Obama, November 14, 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp">Guantanamo is still open, while http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_States#Suspension_in_the_21st_Century">habeas corpus has been restored by Executive Order, renditions and wireless wiretaps http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/06/16/obama-frodo-give-bush-powers/">continue. In addition, President Obama has given himself the power to assassinate http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/kill-lists">a US citizen overseas in the name of national security. )

"When I promise that I... we are going to bring this war in Iraq to a close in 2009, I want the American people to understand that I opposed this war in 2002, 2003, 4, 5, 6 and 7 -- so you can have confidence that I will be serious about ending this war." - Barack Obama, 2008

"Iran, they spend 1/100 of what we spend on the military. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us." - Barack Obama, May 18, 2008

"I think it's time for us to end the embargo on Cuba. I think this because, if you think about what is happening internationally, our planet is shrinking. And our biggest foreign policy challenge -- and it feeds into the battle on terrorism and it feeds into issues of trade and our economy -- is how do you make sure that other countries and developing nations are providing sustenance for their people, human rights for their people and the basic structure of government for their people and are stable and secure so that they can be partners in a bright future for the entire planet." - Barack Obama, 2008

"I've said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo and I will follow through on that. I've said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm going to make sure we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world." - Barack Obama, 60 Minutes (2008) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp">Guantanamo is still open, the US is using foreign nations to carry out torture, when it isn't http://news.change.org/stories/un-investigating-bradley-manning-torture-claims">committing it itself.)

"And as President I'm going to make it impossible for Congressmen or lobbyists to slip pork barrel projects or corporate welfare into laws while no one's looking. Because when I'm President meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public - no more secrecy - that's a commitment I make to you as President. When there's a tax bill being debated in Congress, you will know the names of the corporations that would benefit and how much money they would get. And we will put every corporate tax break and every pork barrel project online for every American to see. You'll know who asked for them and you can decide whether your representative is actually representing you." - Barack Obama, 2008 (Caught between their boss’ anti-lobbyist rhetoric and the reality of governing, President Barack Obama’s aides often steer meetings with lobbyists to a complex just off the White House grounds — and several of the lobbyists involved say they believe the choice of venue is no accident. It allows the Obama administration to keep these lobbyist meetings shielded from public view — and out of Secret Service logs kept on visitors to the White House and later released to the public. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50081.html">link)

"....create jobs building solar panels and wind turbines and the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow. Jobs that will help us end our dependence on foreign oil and may save the planet in the process. Rebuilding our crumbling roads and schools and bridges...." "....so we can have a new electricity grid and bring renewable energy to population centers here in Indiana and across America. Build an American infrastructure for the 21st century." - Barack Obama, 2008

"....that tired, worn-out old theory that says, that says we should give more to billionaires and big corporations and hope that prosperity will trickle-down on everybody else. The last thing... the last thing we can afford is four more years where no one in Washington is watching anyone on Wall Street because politicians and lobbyists killed common-sense regulations. Those are the theories that got us into this mess. They haven't worked and it is time for change, and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America." - Barack Obama, 2008

"...bailout Wall Street banks. As President I will insure the financial rescue plan helps stop foreclosures and protects your money, instead of enriching CEOs. And I'll put in place the common-sense regulations that I've been calling for throughout this campaign. So that Wall Street can never cause a crisis like this again. That's the change we need." - Barack Obama, 2008

"It is absolutely true that NAFTA was a mistake." - Barack Obama, 2008

"It's been a long time coming. But tonight, because of what we did on this day, in this election at this defining moment, change has come to America." - Barack Obama, November 4, 2008

All above quotes were excerpted from Barack Obama campaign speeches and interviews as shown in the documentary http://vimeo.com/20355767">"Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy"


***************************************************************************************************


At a news conference Monday in Chile, President Barack Obama stated about his order to fire 110 Tomahawk missiles into Libya: "this was not an attempt at regime change, but a humanitarian effort to save civilian and rebel lives from Gaddafi’s threat to annihilate anyone who threatened his rule."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoUmmiqtQ2w">~President Barack Obama, March 21, 2011

"You will have your choice of a number of plans that offer a few different packages, but every plan would offer an affordable, basic package… And I believe one of these options needs to be a public option that will give people a broader range of choices and inject competition into the health care market, so that we can force waste out of the system and keep the insurance companies honest." http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-annual-conference-american-medical-association">~President Barack Obama

“We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the United States, whether it’s the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, or U.S. territories in the Pacific. That is the judgment of our Nuclear Regulatory Commission and many other experts.” http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/03/17/president-obama-we-will-stand-people-japan">President Barack Obama

Referring to the Bush Administration's use of phone companies to illegally spy on Americans: "We only know these crimes took place because insiders blew the whistle at great personal risk ... Government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal." ~ http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/06-8">Presidential Candidate & U.S. Senator Barack Obama, 2008

"The President does not have the power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-cost-of-libyan-intervention/2011/03/22/ABYfx8CB_story.html">~Barack Obama, December 2007

"I believe that gay couples deserve the same legal rights as every other couple in this country." - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/obama-gay-couples-deserve-same-legal-rights-as-every-other-couple/2011/06/23/AGLs26hH_blog.html">~Barack Obama, June 2011

"What I'm not going to be doing is using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue (medical cannabis), simply because I want folks to be investigating violent crimes and potential terrorism." http://reason.com/archives/2011/05/11/false-forbearance">~Barack Obama, 2008
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PonyJon Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. He had a very very slim majority in congress that utilized every dirty trick possible.
You sir are a Republicon get out of here.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I was a Democrat before you were born.
It is YOU (and Obama) who doesn't know what a REAL DEMOCRAT looks like.

Now, welcome to IGNORE.
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ScottLand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. Sounds like an "afraid we won't win" scare tactic.
Tired of the old idea of voting for which candidate sucks least.
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PonyJon Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Vote a STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC TICKET give O a real majority to work with.
Don't miss your chance. This is it man don't waste it.
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I'll solve your confusion - Barack Obama (R).
I know you are so in love with that (D). Hopefully that will snap you out of your stupor.

(D)'s didn't mean shit if there aren't decent liberal policies to back them up.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Caricatures are ok for blowing off steam...
Edited on Thu Sep-01-11 06:42 AM by JHB
...but if you're not careful with them you wind up mocking a much broader selection of people than you had intended. People who are your natural allies, but get pissed at you when you lump their legitimate concerns with the most extreme stuff. Do you even understand what their concerns are?

So what's more important? Getting in zingers on a handful of jerks, or bridging the gap to ensure we don't wind up with another wing nut in the White House?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. If I decide to vote or not to vote for someone thats my prerogative.
Want my vote? Run someone I will vote for. Demand my vote? Fuck You!
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. far left? non voter?
It isn't about voting for the lesser of two evils anymore. This is the equivalent of the right wing argument about Iraq.. 'do you want Saddam back'..or 'do you want to win'. Well we didn't win a damn thing in Iraq but we lost a helluva lot.

I take offense at the 'far left' paradigm. Far left is communism. Nobody on this board advocates for that. Period. Non voter? We've all been voting for decades. The false equivalency is destructive.

The majority take their vote very seriously. Otherwise they wouldn't be here gleaning information and trying to learn as much as they can to be able to make judgments about our government. Barack Obama changed the way we think about our vote. He dangled the intention of equality..open government and justice. What most of us have been waiting for decades to have. That was all we wanted. Now we're being castigated because those things have been tossed aside?

I for one cannot go back to the SOP. We deserve better. What this is about is corruption. Self service and under-minding the rule of law. A government that attacks it's working class while those who had profressed to stand with them look the other way. We're suppose to just accept that? If Bachman or Perry get elected it won't be our fault. Guilting people into complicity is not worthy of support. Not voting is an expression that implies none of the above. It's a tool as well on occasion.

People were so excited about voting in 2008. They felt they were part of a movement. But that movement was short lived. We're back to ssdd. The reason is this. Great words,in a vacuum, can motivate an audience but it's the performance that will keep them in their seats again and again.

Yes we blame republicans for obstructionism but they've always been that way. You don't stop the bully on the block by compromise. You have to call him out. And today's republicans are far worse than a bully. They're hitmen. You can only take so many hits before you start hitting back..anyway you can. It's far past frustration. Wisconsin tells us that.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Nailed it! nt
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stuckinarut Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I agree,,
I'm just gunna sit here and wait until the party tells me its ok to stand up for the things I believe in.

I like how all the replies in the vid by the "far left" guy are exactly what the die-hard O supporters think that the "far-left" thinks.
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stuckinarut Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Umm..
Gore chose to drop his appeal of the ruling in Florida.

Nader didn't make him do that.

And it wasn't in the interests of the country to allow Bush to steal the election. But I guess Ralph Nader was responsible for that too.

lol

n/t
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Che Billy Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. NFW!
No way, Renee. If the only purpose of my vote is to keep an extreme rightie from winning office, than the whole system should come crashing down. This is not a democracy. We just might be better off with a President Perry or Bachmann, a couple of moronic dolts who will ruin this country so badly that voters will start to wake up about conservative/corporatist ownership of our elections and actually demand that we reform our electoral system. THEN we might have a chance at a true progressive winning the presidency. All Obama has done is to stop the leftward motion of the Bush propelled pendulum dead at the center point. And you want me to essentially indicate that I support this? NFW!
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Limelight Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
23. Advice to the middle left... Don't be a SUCKER your whole life...
Would you like to know why you'll never see any real change from the Democratic party? It's because you have no tolerance for pain. See the Democratic party, which is, in their defense, only about 60% as bought and paid for by the same corporate/wall street interests that own 100% of the Republican party, takes your fear of the pain that will come from having a Republican president and says "We don't need to fight all that hard on anything we promised because, hey.... who else are they going to vote for?"

Because your pain tolerance is so low they know they can use you and your vote without ever paying you any dividends on your vote by instituting the policies you want your representative to put in place. Why? See they'd actually have to fight Wall Street and the Banksters and Multinational Corporations to do anything we as Dems and Progressives would like to see done. But if they do that how are they going to get campaign donations from those same people? And I mean... it's not like they can just not cowtow to Wall Street, that's crazy talk!

Dude... wake up. You've been had. And by lending your unyeilding support despite the ridiculous failures to do the right thing all because you're scared of another Republican president is exactly the reason there is no effective opposition against those republicans. Dems know they don't have to fight because you'll vote for them anyway, thus is no consequence for their betrayal. Until we show these people you're just blindly voting for that we're willing to endure the pain of letting them fall flat on their face they'll never show us the respect of doing what the f--k we tell them to do as any elected member of a representative government should.

Let me tell you something. This is America and Americans are strong. We've had terrible presidents before. So what happened? We got through it like we always do. Would having a President (far more likely) Perry suck? Sho you right. But imagine how awesome President Whoever, the democrat who will inevitably come after the disastrous term of President Perry, will be. All because he knows to get Democratic votes he has to ACTUALLY live up to Democratic ideals. Us "Super Left" seem to have a helluva lot more confidence in this place than you do. And apparently, unlike you, we know how to take a punch to give back an even harder one.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
24. Damn!
This thread is full of GOPsters pretending to be die hard Obama supporters and stealth GOPsters pretending to be anti-Obama Democrats. Some of you are pretty good, I must admit.

I suggest the Administrators get on this right away. There are several "pretenders" on this thread that should be tomb stoned immediately.
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. The authoritarians are on the march
Let the investigations begin. Let's find out who is the real "Democrat" and who is the enemy. They need to be terminated immediately! - because, you know, there is no way that they have a point.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-01-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Pure conservative self-centered authoritarian arrogant bullshit...
Using scar tactics to support any kind of evil, lesser or not, is what pathological evil does best.

In the end, the lesser evil will always bow to the greater evil, as is the case with the Blue Dog DLC Democratic branch of the Republican Party. Which includes Obama.

You’re not trying to reason with the left, you’re trying to convince the left to throw reason right out the fucking door.

You’re not trying to reason with the left, you’re trying to convince us that we’ve lost the battle of conscience and justice, and there’s nothing left for us to do but acquiesce.

You’re not trying to reason with the left, you’re trying to convince us to join the dark side and be mindless subservient slaves and cannon fodder, for the pleasure of a small minority of elite psychopaths.

You’re not trying to reason with the left, because you’re a DLC right-winger that lacks the capacity to reason, and confuses reason with scare tactics.

Go ahead and put a delusional psycho nut job like Bachmann or Perry in the White House, go ahead and open the gates of hell and see how quick people wake up.

All throughout history, psychopaths fawn the flames of fear and intimidation to gain power, build empires, and enslave the minds and bodies of their own people.

But in the end, people of conscience wake up, and they don't go towards the enslavement of a predatory right, they go to the left where reason actually means something a whole lot more then psycho babble and scare tactics.


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