Keith Olbermann - FOK News First Guess, Lying About The Civil War

[David Sky]

Run time: 04:04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qmZNa7sdpA   Posted on YouTube: September 27, 2011 By YouTube Member: MiniRtist Views on YouTube: 172   Posted on DU: September 28, 2011 By DU Member: David Sky Views on DU: 3163

 
Uploader's comment: "Keith Olbermann - FOK News First Guess, Lying About The Civil War"

So many uneducated Americans, about history, 150 years later.

[provis99]

1. every American should know the Cornerstone Speech.

In which Vice-President of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens proclaimed that the entire point of the Confederacy was white supremacy and black slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

the problem of people being confused over the cause of the Civil War is that post-war history of the Civil War was largely written by Southern historians. In particular, they wrote the history of Reconstructionism, putting a complete confederate slant on it. It would be like if the only history books we read about World War 2 was written by former Nazi politicians and generals.

[Hardrada]

2. There's a lot of WWII revisionism around also.

[Dumpster Macaine]

6. Also On Good Grounds

[WhoIsNumberNone]

3. The Confederate Constitution:

Preamble

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

Article 1, Section 9- (The Bill of Rights)

1. The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

2. Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

3. The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

5. No capitation or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration hereinbefore directed to be taken.

6. No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any State, except by a vote of two-thirds of both Houses.

7. No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another.

8. No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.

9. Congress shall appropriate no money from the Treasury except by a vote of two-thirds of both Houses, taken by yeas and nays, unless it be asked and estimated for by some one of the heads of departments and submitted to Congress by the President; or for the purpose of paying its own expenses and contingencies; or for the payment of claims against the Confederate States, the justice of which shall have been judicially declared by a tribunal for the investigation of claims against the Government, which it is hereby made the duty of Congress to establish.

10. All bills appropriating money shall specify in Federal currency the exact amount of each appropriation and the purposes for which it is made; and Congress shall grant no extra compensation to any public contractor, officer, agent, or servant, after such contract shall have been made or such service rendered.

11. No title of nobility shall be granted by the Confederate States; and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

12. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

13. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

14. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

15. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

16. No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

17. In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

18. In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved; and no fact so tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the Confederacy, than according to the rules of common law.

19. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

20. Every law, or resolution having the force of law, shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.

Article 4 (The States)

Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others

1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each State to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other State; and the Congress may, by general laws, prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition

1. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

2. A person charged in any State with treason, felony, or other crime against the laws of such State, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another State, shall, on demand of the executive authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having jurisdiction of the crime.

3. No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs; or to whom such service or labor may be due.

Section 3 - New States

1. Other States may be admitted into this Confederacy by a vote of two- thirds of the whole House of Representatives and two-thirds of the Senate, the Senate voting by States; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State, nor any State be formed by the junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned, as well as of the Congress.

2. The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations concerning the property of the Confederate States, including the lands thereof.

3. The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.

4. The Confederate States shall guarantee to every State that now is, or hereafter may become, a member of this Confederacy, a republican form of government; and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the Legislature or of the Executive when the Legislature is not in session) against domestic violence.

http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html

Does anyone suppose this could the "The Constitution" the Teabaggers have been reading?

[PatrynXX]

4. old video

shoulda known when it said FOK. see you in late spring. :P thought I'd seen that before

[Dumpster Macaine]

5. Mr. Olbermann Is Out Of Bounds

Despite his bravado, questioning the cause of the U.S. Civil
War is not as outrageous as Mr. Olbermann so theatrically
makes it out to be.  Certainly slavery was a theme surrounding
events leading up to the Civil War, but not the reason for
both sides actually going to war, "the cause".    

Prof. David Potter in "The Impeding Crisis
1848-1961", Harper-Colophon 1976, reviewed both the
Southern Gulf States voting record on Secession, and also the
Southern Border States (states bordering the North) voting
record on Secession a short time later. The results:
   

Gulf States Popular Vote For State Delegates To Montgomery
Confederate Convention (for Secession), Feb. 4 1860
(pp.448-583) 

           Secessionists vs. Unionists vs. Unspecified   

Mississippi     16,800   vs.  12,218    vs.   12,000
Florida         ca. 60%  vs.  ca. 40%
Georgia         44,152   vs.  41,632 (contested, unresolved)
Louisiana       20,214   vs.  18,451 (contested, unresolved)
Texas           44,317   vs.  13,020
South Carolina  (not exactly stated, but one sided for
Cessation, similar to Texas)
Alabama         (not stated here, 61-39 for Secession from
another source)

Voter Turnout For State Delegates To Montgomery Convention 
(% of 1860 Presidential Election Turnout)
Georgia     82%
Louisiana   75%
Alabama     70%
Mississippi 60%


Southern Border States That Voted Whether To Join Confederate
Convention After Feb. 4 1860 
              Secessionists  vs.  Unionists
Virginia         45,161     vs.   100,536    
North Carolina   46,672     vs.   47,323 (Not To Join)
North Carolina   42 Delegates  vs. 120 Delegates (If Joined)  
  
Missouri         30,000        vs. 110,000
Kentucky         36         vs.    54 (Lower House, Not To
Join)
Tennessee        57,798     vs.    69,387 (Not To Join)
Tennessee        24,749    vs.    88,803 (For Delegates If
Joined)                         
Delaware   (Unanimous Lower House Vote Against Secession, 
            8-5 Upper House Against Joining)  
Arkansas          27,412     vs.    15,826  (For Joining)
Arkansas    (but voted a majority of Unionist Delegates)  


Obviously Mr. Olbermann has not viewed the Southern voting
records on cessation.  If the North and most of the South
didn't want to go to war over slavery, "Mr. Olbermann's
cause", then what was it?

If I may summarize:  Led by South Carolina “Fire-Eaters” after
the Harper Ferry incident, the volatile rhetoric of the
previous Presidential Election, and what would happen if
Lincoln won, South Carolina, seceding first, lead the six Gulf
States to the Montgomery Convention and secession.  Yet even
in the deep south, the “victory” (for disunion) was pretty
shallow (as the voting record shows).  Potter asserts if the
Louisiana and Georgia votes had gone the other way, or had
been properly counted, the Montgomery Convention might have
never gotten off the ground.   

Yet the Southern Border States quickly took the wind out of
the Gulf secessionist movement when, after the first
Montgomery Convention, they voted a clear mandate against
disunion (as the voting record shows).  On top of that
Lincoln, now in office, initiated a peace conference to stave
of disunion, drawing in Southern “cooperationists” further.  
What triggered the Civil War then was not so much slavery as
South Carolina’s attack on Fort Sumter (Federal territory), an
issue of (South Carolina’s) State sovereignty (another major
issue) that sparked hostilities, drawing the otherwise
reluctant southern states in, not to mention a reluctant
north.  State Sovereignty, to cede from the Union, then was
the issue both sides could agree to fight over, not slavery. 
Still, it was a war nobody wanted, except perhaps a radical
fringe.   This of course was not the first, or last time, a
radical fringe group “maneuvered” a majority to war.   There
are countless examples, some quite recent.  






 

[Puget Progressive]

7. "Some quite recent..."

Indeed, can you say Neo-Cons? A despicable group of chickenhawk imperialists who used another attack on this country to coerce us into a series of tragic wars.

[Dumpster Macaine]

12. Neo?

I would say Neo-Con's, except there's nothing Neo (new) about them.

[Enthusiast]

10. Olbermann is in no way out of bounds.

Olbermann can espouse any position he wishes. There are no "bounds". (Except in the minds of history revisionists from the South)

The war was clearly about the right to own slaves.

If there had been no slavery there would have been no war.

[Dumpster Macaine]

11. No Bounds?

Of course Olbermann is entitled to his opinion. Yet, throwing someone's sanity, dignity, honor, patriotism etc. into a discussion is out of bounds in my book.

The war was not clearly about slavery. As the voting record showed, the vast majority of American's wouldn't go to war over it, in the North and the South. Going it alone, South Carolina, believing they had the right to cede, dragged everyone into a war they didn't want. At best it was just as much about State Sovereignty as Slavery.

At any rate, if it was about slavery they would have been freed. Slavery took more time to die out, segregation lasted another 100 years. I remember African Americans being shot for standing in line to register to vote when I was a kid in the 60's.

[Dumpster Macaine]

14. Forgot To Mention

Forgot to mention, slavery was allowed in the south. They didn't have to go war over it, they had it already. The North had no intention either of taking it away.

[Enthusiast]

15. The war was about maintaining the institution

of slavery. Southern guilt over slavery and the abuses prevents you from admitting that.

No one was passionate enough about States rights to fight a war over it. But they were passionate about slavery. And they knew even then they were in the wrong. That is why we still have this argument today. The South still can't admit how wrong they were.

[Dumpster Macaine]

16. Guilt

It is not "Southern guilt over slavery and the abuses that prevent me from admitting that", it is the voting record of Southerners at the time, clearly against disunion, clearly against going to war. Apparently irrelevant.

Whether it fits into your preconceived world or not, State Sovereignty was the issue other Southern states joined South Carolina in hostilities against the North.

And don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of slavery or particularly the south (I was never there)

[Atypical Liberal]

8. Not technically correct.

I would say that slavery was not the direct cause of the American Civil War. As is the case with most wars, even those the United States is fighting today, the direct cause is money. And of course, the money was being made off of the backs of slaves.

Lots of apologists like to point out that the majority of Confederate soldiers did not own slaves. Just like today the majority of US soldiers do not own appreciable holdings of Haliburton stock. This does not undermine the actual motives of the wars, though. One simply needs only look at the financial dealings of the people in power to see the motivations behind the people who voted and funded the wars.

You've got the people in charge voting and funding the wars with one set of motivations, and you have the people actually dying in the wars with a different set of motivations. The trick was to get the poor farmer motivated to protect the interests of the people in power. As Goering noted, this is easy to do:

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

I expect that if you take a look at the people in the Southern government who voted for succession you will find that the vast majority of them owned a lot of slaves, and that their wealth was derived directly from it.

[Dumpster Macaine]

13. Money

I agree slavery was a business proposition. Slave owners didn't make people slaves because they disdained them, they needed cheap labor for their business enterprises.

The Goering analogy is appropriate. The Nazi's also came to power by a radical fringe group (in this case bankers, industrialists and the Vatican) working behind the scenes, bringing upon a war nobody else wanted (Google January 4 1933, the "secret" meeting between Hitler, Franz von Papen, and Kurt von Schroeder, "the birth hour of the Third Reich") The reason for that was to curb or destroy communism. Yet where is it taught W.W.II was fought to stop Communism? After W.W.II of course. But why not before?

[Enthusiast]

9. Damn, Keith.

One of them thar crazies might take a shot at you for saying that. Seriously.