'They will want nukes now!': UK & US plan to strike Iran exposed

[The Northerner]

Run time: 06:49 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqpi3oX8kB8   Posted on YouTube: November 03, 2011 By YouTube Member: RussiaToday Views on YouTube: 303   Posted on DU: November 03, 2011 By DU Member: The Northerner Views on DU: 4134

 
British officials are reportedly working on a plan to assist U.S. forces in a pre-emptive attack on Iranian military facilities. It follows claims Washington is moving towards a policy of intervention out of fear that Tehran is developing a nuclear weapons program - something Iran has always denied. And political analyst Chris Bambery believes it's the prospect of economic ruin that's motivating the old elite into action...

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Yes, we need another war.

[AsahinaKimi]

2. Is that all we are good at? Making war?

This stuff has to stop. One of my regualar duties on the weekend is go to the local Veterans Hosptial and volunteer to help some guys who are Vietnam Veterans. I also see guys who have come back from Irag and Afghanistan who have lost arms and legs, and it depresses me but I try to stay cheerful and help the best I can.


Do we REALLY NEED TO MAKE MORE BROKEN SOLDIERS??? Is that what we are in for? More on going endless wars...we can't get out of. Damn these politicians who have to feed the ugly beast that is making money for the Arms merchants, and companies (like Haliburton) with government contracts!!!

[jakeXT]

21. kinetic action, no american gets harmed, a couple of drones steered from air cond. roomes /nt

[SteveM]

3. Now hear this: The UnitaryPresidency requires PermaWar. That is all.

[newfie11]

4. Is it any wonder country's want to protect themselves against US

We have quite the history of pretending we are doing the right thing by invading country's when it benefits us.

[Amonester]

8. That's what Empires (of the 1% by the 1% for the 1%)

do.

[newfie11]

9. Well put!!!!

[dotymed]

5. America gave Pakistan Nuclear Weapons.

Pakistan! One of the poorest countries on earth and now a country where we commit daily drone attacks. You know the place that was hiding Osama and the home of the Talban.

We are an MIC lead corptocracy that, on our current course, will be responsible for WWIII.

I still want to know the "scoop" on the land in Central America owned by Cheney, Rice and Bush. I'd bet that there is a vast underground "safe" city there.

[Amonester]

10. This planet (or rather, this species) cannot "afford" a WWIII.

Or any other WWXXX after that.

That shite has to stop.

[civilisation]

6. perhaps the USA should stop selling weapons,.

all over the world,. perhaps the USA should stop funding the Israeli NUKE program, and it's genocidal apartheid state. just maybe this is more of a problem than a country with no nukes,.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Did you run out of clever anti-Israel propganda?

:eyes:

[reggie the dog]

12. clever? it is the truth

Israel is a rogue state, which practices apartheid, traps citizens on a little territory and then bombs it and kills a shitload of civilians because they dont like the way the Palestinians voted. Here in Europe most countries see Israel as a bully propped up by the USA.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. It isn't the truth except in the world of make-believe anti-Israel propaganda.

Learn what "apartheid" is. Oh, and why you are at it, learn some fucking history that isn't from some unhistorical site full of bullshit and lies. I am not surprised by the opinions there in Europe, they are the ones that created the problems in more than one way and now they think they can place the blame on others...typical.

[reggie the dog]

14. i have learned history, my master's is in history

apartheid is a system of racial seperation where one race is superior and the other is inferior, passbooks are needed to access areas outside of the homeland, the parallels between south africa and israel are numerous. also how did "eruope" create this problem? did europe hate jews more than americans? or do you let the nazi party speak for all of europe? or do you acknowledge that when the uk pused to create israel they created the problem?

so what is the justification for bombing civilians in gaza? what is the justification for the wall? what is the justification for Palestineans being second class citizens who need passbooks to go around whereas other Israelis dont.

How is Gaza different from the Warsaw ghetto?

[Behind the Aegis]

15. You should ask for your money back.

Look up "race." Arabs aren't a "race" nor are Muslims. The parallels to SA are only in propaganda sites.

"how did "eruope" create this problem?" Really? Your degree is in history?! LOL!

"so what is the justification for bombing civilians in gaza?" What is the justification for blowing up pizza parlors and busses?

"what is the justification for the wall?" See above question.

"what is the justification for Palestineans being second class citizens who need passbooks to go around whereas other Israelis dont." Really?! HAHA! You realize Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens don't you? (Well, you probably don't which is why you cling to your absurd "apartheid" analogy.)

"How is Gaza different from the Warsaw ghetto?" History? Yeah, I call "bullshit!" Anyone who has a master's in history, even if Europe isn't the specialty should be able to see the absurd stupidity, and rank ignorance in that question.

[reggie the dog]

16. first off if you can have apartheid for races why not for religious

or ethnic groups

2nd seriously how did europe alone create this problem? it was not just europe that pushed for the creation of Israel, the usa did too, also people were not prejudiced against Jewish people only in Europe, Americans were too. Plus you cannot take the Nazi extermination of Jewish people, Gypsies, leftists, gays and handicapped people as an example for what Europe wanted to do, that was what the nazi party wanted to do.


3rd I never once justified blowing up pizza parlors and busses, i think it is bad that civilians are killed, but instead of carpet bombing gaza perhaps the government of Israel could stop colonizing Palestine, stop opposing statehood for Palestine or give Palestinians Israeli citizenship (like in Switzerland where more than one linguistic and cultural group shares the same nationality)

4th building a wall would not be necessary would the Israeli government stop colonizing Palestine and either 1. accept that Palestine is an independent country or 2 accept that Palestinians and Israelis would all have citizenship in some country with different cantons in which schools, languages, cultures were different.


I say second class citizens because Palestinians are not treated the same as Israelis by the government of Israel even though Israel does all it can to block Palestinians from having their own state! Israel needs to either accept full Palestinian nation hood and independence or accept that Israelis and Palestinians will both have the same rights in a new state with Israeli and Palestinian cantons (perhaps the new country could be named something like "The Holy Land" as there are so many sacred sites for Christianity, Judaism, and Islam


How is Gaza different from the Warsaw ghetto? Compare the 2 in both one group is singled out for being "different" forced from their homes and forced to live in a shitty area (old warsaw vs gaza)

the power that forces these people in makes them have passbooks to come and go and often just closes the gates so to speak which makes it very hard for the people living inside this area to work outside it,

the power witholds goods, food, construction materials, and medecine from time to time as it sees fit from the people who are oppressed and who come to depend on smuggled goods to get by but are punished if found to have smuggled goods.

the power denigrates the culture and religion of the oppressed group as inferior to their superior culture

now the differences, one power eventually rounds up everyone in the ghetto and takes them to camps in which most of them will die

the other power drops a shitload of bombs on the oppressed from time to time killing thousands and traumatizing the rest of the inhabitants

in one case resistance did not harm locals, in the other resistance (rocket attacks) harm local civilians (which fuels a cycle of blood vengence on both sides) kills hundreds and traumatizes the inhabitants (PTSD is rampant for both Israeli and Palestinian populations)


apart from the final soultion the parallels exist, as for the final solution in Israel they are content to kill by the thousands and not kill the entire other group whereas the Nazis wanted extermination, but remember that the nazis did not plan on extermination from day one, simple second class citizenry was considered (like what happened later in south africa) and it was only in the last few years of the nazi epoch that the mass killings occured. Israel dose have nuclear weapons so the possibility of them using one on gaza exists (not that it is highly probable)

so where is my stupidity and rank ignorance?

I would really love to go to Jerusalem but i will not so long as Israel oppresses Palestine and so long as Palestine lobs rockets towards Israel. I woll not go to such a place, i will not give tax money to Israel, the oppressor, and will neither give tax money to the oppressed as i dont support their killing of civilians either.

would it really be too much to create a country known as The Holy Land and then have Israeli and Palestinian cantons? with perhaps a christian canton for that minority group too??? look at switzerland. Palestine/Israel could be a very beautiful place if its people could just live in peace.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Wow. Lots of crap in there. Let me get my boots.

"first off if you can have apartheid for races why not for religious or ethnic groups"

Did you not read your own post? "i have learned history, my master's is in history apartheid is a system of racial seperation where one race is superior and the other is inferior,..." If you wanted to redefine it, fine, you should have done so. (Emphasis added)

"2nd seriously how did europe alone create this problem? it was not just europe that pushed for the creation of Israel, the usa did too, also people were not prejudiced against Jewish people only in Europe, Americans were too. Plus you cannot take the Nazi extermination of Jewish people, Gypsies, leftists, gays and handicapped people as an example for what Europe wanted to do, that was what the nazi party wanted to do."

Seriously?! History? Really? Oh, and and what point did I say "europe alone create(ed) this problem"? I didn't, which probably explains your strawman argument.

"3rd I never once justified blowing up pizza parlors and busses, i think it is bad that civilians are killed, but instead of carpet bombing gaza perhaps the government of Israel could stop colonizing Palestine, stop opposing statehood for Palestine or give Palestinians Israeli citizenship (like in Switzerland where more than one linguistic and cultural group shares the same nationality)"

I didn't say you did. I was commenting on your idiotic remark (much like this continued one: "carpet bombing gaza"), by throwing the same rhetoric back at you.

"4th building a wall would not be necessary would the Israeli government stop colonizing Palestine and either 1. accept that Palestine is an independent country or 2 accept that Palestinians and Israelis would all have citizenship in some country with different cantons in which schools, languages, cultures were different."

"I say second class citizens because Palestinians are not treated the same as Israelis by the government of Israel even though Israel does all it can to block Palestinians from having their own state! Israel needs to either accept full Palestinian nation hood and independence or accept that Israelis and Palestinians will both have the same rights in a new state with Israeli and Palestinian cantons (perhaps the new country could be named something like "The Holy Land" as there are so many sacred sites for Christianity, Judaism, and Islam"

Why would Palestinians be treated the same? They aren't Israeli citizens. Your continued ignorant statement demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the actual situation.

Spoken like a propagandist and someone unfamiliar with the situation in Israel. The wall hasn't been there during the entire occupation has it? Why no, it hasn't. Why don't you do some actual research and see why the "wall" was built.

"How is Gaza different from the Warsaw ghetto? Compare the 2 in both one group is singled out for being "different" forced from their homes and forced to live in a shitty area (old warsaw vs gaza)

the power that forces these people in makes them have passbooks to come and go and often just closes the gates so to speak which makes it very hard for the people living inside this area to work outside it,

the power withholds goods, food, construction materials, and medecine from time to time as it sees fit from the people who are oppressed and who come to depend on smuggled goods to get by but are punished if found to have smuggled goods.

the power denigrates the culture and religion of the oppressed group as inferior to their superior culture

now the differences, one power eventually rounds up everyone in the ghetto and takes them to camps in which most of them will die

the other power drops a shitload of bombs on the oppressed from time to time killing thousands and traumatizing the rest of the inhabitants

in one case resistance did not harm locals, in the other resistance (rocket attacks) harm local civilians (which fuels a cycle of blood vengence on both sides) kills hundreds and traumatizes the inhabitants (PTSD is rampant for both Israeli and Palestinian populations)"

WOW! That is some of the best laid "the Jews are Nazis" bullshit I have seen put on this board! BRAVO! History? Really??!!? Here, let me help you....

First, the groups were not "singled out for being "different"", that only happened in the Warsaw Ghetto. See, Arabs were already living in Gaza, wanted to be called Palestinians, and are there because that is where they are from. They weren't gathered up from different parts of the surrounding area and placed there against their will (unlike the Jews).

Second, the "passbooks" are your clever, kinda of, way of saying "passport." It is the way it is in most places. I have to have a passport to go to Mexico. Mexicans have to have one to come here.

Third, there are some restrictions placed by the Israelis on certain items, but to pretend it is crippling to Gaza is absurd.

Fourth, the "denigration" comes from both sides. Check out Palestinian/Arab media some time!

Fifth...they all died. Ok, a few hundred survived. As for Gaza, it has the 7th highest population growth IN THE WORLD!

"apart from the final soultion the parallels exist, as for the final solution in Israel they are content to kill by the thousands and not kill the entire other group whereas the Nazis wanted extermination, but remember that the nazis did not plan on extermination from day one, simple second class citizenry was considered (like what happened later in south africa) and it was only in the last few years of the nazi epoch that the mass killings occured. Israel dose have nuclear weapons so the possibility of them using one on gaza exists (not that it is highly probable)"

No, they really don't exist, except in anti-Israel propaganda. The Nazis did plan to exterminate the Jews, in the very least, ethnically cleanse them from Europe. History? Really?

"so where is my stupidity and rank ignorance?"

Well, besides what I have shown above (though I was commenting on your question), I will really show you how your comparison is not only flawed, but gross.

1. Gaza is 140% larger than the Warsaw Ghetto.
   
2. Gaza has a border not controlled by the "occupier."
   
3. Jews, especially Polish ones, weren't trying to destroy Germany, nor claim all of it was "their" land.
   
4. Gaza has an independent government, not one set up by the "occupier."
   
5. The Warsaw Ghetto never had a shoreline, beaches, hotels, zoos, restaurants, or other "luxuries."
   
6. Schools and libraries aren't illegal in Gaza.
   
7. Dignitaries, activists, humanitarians, and politicians can and do go into Gaza. This was NOT allowed in the Warsaw Ghetto.
   
8. MILLIONS of dollars of aid, as well as 100's of thousands pounds of humanitarian aid reach Gaza EVERY YEAR.
   
9. Gazans have contact with the "outside" world.
   
10. Humanitarian and activist groups take an interest in Gaza.
    
11. The Warsaw Ghetto was destroyed, including almost ALL of its inhabitants, within 2 years...Gaza...well, it's still there and growing.

Comparing Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto is foul, ignorant, and nothing more than bigoted propaganda!

[reggie the dog]

18. let's go over this again

1. Ok, so the Jewish race discriminates against people not of its race, especially Muslim arabs.



2. "I am not surprised by the opinions there in Europe, they are the ones that created the problems in more than one way and now they think they can place the blame on others...typical."


You say of Europe "they are the ones that created the problems".... and then you tell me that you didn't say that Europe alone caused the problem but your exact words are "they are the ones that created the problems"

3. Do you really expect me to believe that none of the people living in Gaza were kicked off of their land (which is now in Israel)??? do you take me for a fool? hell the israeli army takes over peoples houses and they damn sure kicked non Jewish people off of their land to make the state of Israel.


4. 4 i use passbooks instead of passport because
a. how in the hell can Palestine have true passports if it is not a country
b. also Israeli people going to colonies in Palestine are not kept out by Palestinian border guards, yet the reverse happens quite often.
c. needing a passport to go to mexico or come to the usa is new and from the W presidency, before that a simple id card was enough


5. Israel keeps restrictions on what comes into and out of Gaza, they stop ships from bringing aid and supplies. So Israel thinks it has the right to block goods from Palestine and does so often. This is horrible for the economy of Gaza.



1. "Gaza is 140% larger than the Warsaw Ghetto." actually Gaza is 360 sq km, and warsaw ghetto was 3.4 sq km
2. "Gaza has a border not controlled by the "occupier."" bullshit, how do Jewish people get into their colonies in Palestine? the Palestinian border guards let them in? or perhaps there are not Palestinian border guards for the colonies. Who controlled the access from Egypt to Palestine for years? Not the Palestinians. who stops aid ships from arriving in Gaza? Israel and its Navy.
i can also go to all countries bordering France without a passport, hell Switzerland is the only one that asks for an ID but they dont specify passport. I pass from France into Italy like going from Illinois to Wisconsin

3."Jews, especially Polish ones, weren't trying to destroy Germany, nor claim all of it was "their" land." Muslims, especially Palestinian ones, are not trying to destroy Isreal (although some are you know damn well most are not). As in the case of Poland and Germany it was Germany trying to claim Polish land as Isral has and continues to claim Palestianian land as theirs. Seeing as the Palestinians were alread forced out of Israel the claim that it is their land is a strong one.

4. "Gaza has an independent government, not one set up by the "occupier."" yet when the people of gaza vote for the "wrong person" Israel responds with bombs.


5. "The Warsaw Ghetto never had a shoreline, beaches, hotels, zoos, restaurants, or other "luxuries."
Schools and libraries aren't illegal in Gaza."" The Warsaw ghetto was not on the sea, ok, so it had no shoreline or beach which is not surprising considering that warsaw is not danzig and thus not on the sea. ok, Gaza has zoos, restaurants and schools which, unlike in Jerusalem, are not edited by Israel.

"Dignitaries, activists, humanitarians, and politicians can and do go into Gaza. This was NOT allowed in the Warsaw Ghetto.
MILLIONS of dollars of aid, as well as 100's of thousands pounds of humanitarian aid reach Gaza EVERY YEAR.
Gazans have contact with the "outside" world.
Humanitarian and activist groups take an interest in Gaza.
The Warsaw Ghetto was destroyed, including almost ALL of its inhabitants, within 2 years...Gaza...well, it's still there and growing."

actually, due to colonization, Gaza's land area can be seen as getting smaller. It remains to be seen if Gaza will be destroyed or not.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Just as I expected, more rank propaganda and ignorance.

1. Ok, so the Jewish race discriminates against people not of its race, especially Muslim arabs.

There is no such thing as a "Jewish race." The only time one hears such nonsense is in Nazi propaganda, and perhaps some other vile, bigoted philosophy. Yes, there is a Jewish religion and (many believe) a Jewish ethnicity, but no Jewish "race." While it is true Jews can and do discriminate against others, it is hardly unique to Jews and still does not give credence to your ridiculous claim of "apartheid." I do understand why you are trying to claim a "Jewish race," because then you think it would fit your "apartheid" meme, but it still wouldn't.

2. "I am not surprised by the opinions there in Europe, they are the ones that created the problems in more than one way and now they think they can place the blame on others...typical."

You say of Europe "they are the ones that created the problems".... and then you tell me that you didn't say that Europe alone caused the problem but your exact words are "they are the ones that created the problems"

alone -- 1.Having no one else present; on one's own; 2.Without others' help or participation; single-handed

I never said "alone" nor did I imply they did it "alone." YOU are the one who introduced that concept in post #16. It is known as a strawman argument. YOU are the one who brought up Europe in the first place, which is why I only addressed them. Keep trying, but you are the one trying to say I said something I didn't and then try to get me to "defend" it.

3. Do you really expect me to believe that none of the people living in Gaza were kicked off of their land (which is now in Israel)??? do you take me for a fool? hell the israeli army takes over peoples houses and they damn sure kicked non Jewish people off of their land to make the state of Israel.

More strawman arguments? Now, there's a shocker! Well, not really, given your continued flailing. As for the "fool" question, I will assume it is a rhetorical question and you were not seeking an honest opinion.

4. 4 i use passbooks instead of passport because
a. how in the hell can Palestine have true passports if it is not a country
b. also Israeli people going to colonies in Palestine are not kept out by Palestinian border guards, yet the reverse happens quite often.
c. needing a passport to go to mexico or come to the usa is new and from the W presidency, before that a simple id card was enough

Read...learn: Palestinian Authority passport. Also, Israelis entering the territories are entering an area occupied by Israel. Palestinians have no right to enter Israel, a sovereign nation, without permission of said nation, in this case, Israel. You are comparing apples to oranges. You also keep switching between Gaza and the West Bank. They are two separate places. Israelis cannot travel freely to Gaza.

5. Israel keeps restrictions on what comes into and out of Gaza, they stop ships from bringing aid and supplies. So Israel thinks it has the right to block goods from Palestine and does so often. This is horrible for the economy of Gaza.

Well, duh. Hey wait...didn't I say that?! Oh yeah...I did! "Third, there are some restrictions placed by the Israelis on certain items, but to pretend it is crippling to Gaza is absurd." You are trying to change the goalposts, as well as act as if I don't know what is happening. Israel has the right to block things because it has a legal "blockade." WOW! A blockade which blocks things. Who'd a thunk it?!

1. "Gaza is 140% larger than the Warsaw Ghetto." actually Gaza is 360 sq km, and warsaw ghetto was 3.4 sq km

Oh, thank you for correcting my math. My bad. I am just glad I don't have an advanced degree in mathematics because a simple, idiotic error like that would have been so embarrassing. Gaza is actually 10,588 % larger than the Warsaw Ghetto! Thanks for clearing that up. Oh wait, didn't you tell me to show how they differ? I have done it with this ONE fact (and all the others, which I will also continue to expound upon further down). Gaza is almost 106 times larger than the Warsaw Ghetto. Of course, when one takes in account the number of people in each place (Gaza about 1.5 million and the WG about .5 million), more differences really start to show.

2. "Gaza has a border not controlled by the "occupier."" bullshit, how do Jewish people get into their colonies in Palestine? the Palestinian border guards let them in? or perhaps there are not Palestinian border guards for the colonies. Who controlled the access from Egypt to Palestine for years? Not the Palestinians. who stops aid ships from arriving in Gaza? Israel and its Navy.

Bzzzzt! Wrong! (again...sigh) Jews don't have "colonies" in Gaza. Jews can't (or aren't supposed to) enter Gaza. As for who controlled the "access from Egypt," well, that would be....EGYPT. Duh! Israel does stop ships, even "dog and pony show" "humanitarian" ships, if they try to enter Gazan water, that's the purpose of a blockade. But here's something for you to ponder: why don't they go to Egypt and cross into Gaza via Rafah? You know, the border controlled by their Arab "brothers" to the south, Egypt. Oh that's right, because many of those "humanitarian" ships are trying to break the Israeli blockade. Really makes you wonder what their true motives are. Not me, it is obvious breaking the blockade is more important than the aid.

i can also go to all countries bordering France without a passport, hell Switzerland is the only one that asks for an ID but they dont specify passport. I pass from France into Italy like going from Illinois to Wisconsin

The EU has special laws. As an American, I would have a passport ready and available for each place (usually). It is not unusual for countries to restrict who does and doesn't enter their nation.

3."Jews, especially Polish ones, weren't trying to destroy Germany, nor claim all of it was "their" land." Muslims, especially Palestinian ones, are not trying to destroy Isreal (although some are you know damn well most are not). As in the case of Poland and Germany it was Germany trying to claim Polish land as Isral has and continues to claim Palestianian land as theirs. Seeing as the Palestinians were alread forced out of Israel the claim that it is their land is a strong one.

LOL! Read the Hamas charter sometime. Also, a number of Arab leaders have said just that, they want to see Israel destroyed. Others do it more covertly, by claiming Israel is occupied Palestine.

4. "Gaza has an independent government, not one set up by the "occupier."" yet when the people of gaza vote for the "wrong person" Israel responds with bombs.

That statement is a special kind of bullshit as it has no basis in fact. Gaza wasn't bombed for voting in the "wrong person," so much as it was the 5000+ rockets that came sailing into Israel after the withdrawal.

5. "The Warsaw Ghetto never had a shoreline, beaches, hotels, zoos, restaurants, or other "luxuries."
Schools and libraries aren't illegal in Gaza."" The Warsaw ghetto was not on the sea, ok, so it had no shoreline or beach which is not surprising considering that warsaw is not danzig and thus not on the sea. ok, Gaza has zoos, restaurants and schools which, unlike in Jerusalem, are not edited by Israel.

Well, lookie there, yet another difference(s) between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto! Schools are "edited" by Israel?! What? Do they have to follow Israeli curriculum? Yeah, that kinda happens everywhere.

"Dignitaries, activists, humanitarians, and politicians can and do go into Gaza. This was NOT allowed in the Warsaw Ghetto.
MILLIONS of dollars of aid, as well as 100's of thousands pounds of humanitarian aid reach Gaza EVERY YEAR.
Gazans have contact with the "outside" world.
Humanitarian and activist groups take an interest in Gaza.
The Warsaw Ghetto was destroyed, including almost ALL of its inhabitants, within 2 years...Gaza...well, it's still there and growing."

actually, due to colonization, Gaza's land area can be seen as getting smaller. It remains to be seen if Gaza will be destroyed or not.

There are NO "colonies" in Gaza! But I see you once again avoided the real fact of the matter: Gaza is NOT comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto. Yet another "talking point" destroyed.

This is where this has to end because your use of wretched propaganda, false information, half-truths, and distorted history makes it impossible to discuss this situation. You clearly have little (if any) knowledge about the situation and by trying to compare it to apartheid and the Warsaw Ghetto just further proves this point. Your bigoted points that "Jews are like the Nazis" and "Jews are a race" is foul and diseased and indicates further posts from you would like de-evolve into straight up rancid, anti-Semitic verse; so with that...ciao!

[reggie the dog]

20. me not liking the Likud Party's running of Israel is not anti semitism

1. as for is Jewish or arab a race in France people from North Africa are considered a seperate racial group than people from central and southern africa, there is even the word maghrebian to describe them. in your earlier post you pointed out that arabs were not a race and didnt say anything about Jewish people so i thought you were implying that they were a race.

2. you did imply that europe did it alone when you said "they did it" saying they did it usually implies that it was them and not some other group.

3. you do not even refute my assertion that many people in gaza are refugees and their descendants

4. so you support the idea that palestinians have no right to enter sovereign Israel but Israelis can not only enter Palestine but colonize parts of it (west bank, plus there are Israeli settlements (not colonies i know, just settlements) in Gaza as well as roads that only Israelis can use.

this is from the BBC Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33% of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps. Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers.
Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40% of Gaza’s land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/key_maps/2.stm

5. of course a blockade cripples the economy, look at what us sanctions did to the economies of cuba and iraq and those were not all out blockades we still let others trade with them if they want to which is why i have been able to drink cuban orange juice since i moved to france.

6. the difference in size between gaza and the warsaw ghetto is not what is important, it is the displacing of people from their homes to the area which is, and despite what you claim many people in gaza were forced from other lands to there, some by the government of Israel, some by the government of Egypt.

7. from what the bbc says israel controls all the external borders of Gaza, that there are Jewish settlements within Gaza, that there are Israeli controlled roads in Gaza and to let you know you get one border check when you arrive in the Schengen Zone (not all EU nations and some nations from outside the EU) then you cross between nations like crossing between states in the USA, there is a sign and no stop or border guard or anything.

8. Hamas can be interpreted in more than one way, violent destruction of Israel or the creation of a new nation, like switzerland, with Palestinian muslim cantons and Israeli jewish cantons (which is an idea i suggested before that you didnt even comment about.

9. you suggest that gaza voting for hamas played no role in the extremist Likud party deciding to bomb them?

10. i meant to say that the books are edited by israel, the schoolbooks the kids get in palestinian schools in Jerusalem, which sometimes have blanks as opposed to what the kids get in Palestinian schools in gaza and the west bank. there was an exposé on this on france culture this week

11. like i said there are just settlements, not colonies in gaza, which must be a huge consolation for the people of gaza.

my wreched propaganda???

false information????

half truths????

biggoted points???? like i said i thought that you implied the "jewish race" when you said before when, i compared gaza to warsaw, and i spoke of people acting as inferior and superior races and you said "arabs are not a race" yet didnt say the same for jewish people i thought it was implied that you considered jewish people to make up a race.

I also never said that Jews were like Nazis, never, I was comparing the Likud Party run government of Israel with the Nazi Party run government of Germany.

I am always up to continue talking and you dont have to worry about any vile anti semitism because I hold no grudge against any religion. I myself have no religion but think that all people on this planet should be free to have whatever religion they wish.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Since you stepped back slightly..I will respond.

me not liking the Likud Party's running of Israel is not anti semitism

Not a good start for you. I have been doing this for a long time, don't think your strawman BS is going to deter me, nor are your false allegations. I didn't say your dislike of Likud was anti-Semitic. Want to know why? There are two reasons: one -- disliking a political party in Israel is not anti-Semitic, unless it is because they are Jews, so I would not say someone was anti-Semitic for disliking any Israeli political party; and two -- this is the FIRST post you have even mentioned Likud! Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining and don't try to deflect legitimate rebuttal to your ill-formed opinions and "facts" by accusing me of calling you or implying you are an anti-Semite for something I don't even find anti-Semitic.

1. as for is Jewish or arab a race in France people from North Africa are considered a separate racial group than people from central and southern africa, there is even the word maghrebian to describe them. in your earlier post you pointed out that arabs were not a race and didnt say anything about Jewish people so i thought you were implying that they were a race.

There is a reason they are considered a different racial group; one group is caucasoid (Arabs) and the other is negroid (Black Africans). Arabs are an ethnic group, but not a separate racial group. Here's something that will really blow your mind: some Jews and Arabs are part of the same ethnic group! Zounds! OMG! For real?! Yes, for really and truly! They are known as Semites or the Semitic people. As for your inference, since you are having enough difficulty with what I actually write, save your "skills" and don't waste my time with trying to look for "implications."

2. you did imply that europe did it alone when you said "they did it" saying they did it usually implies that it was them and not some other group.

Once again, don't try to second guess me, stick with what I have actually written. I didn't say they were responsible "alone" nor did I imply it. This is the second time I have said this! You clearly have no clue so I am going to use an analogy and perhaps that will help your misunderstanding.

Three men break into a bank and rob the place. You happen to know one of the men. An article appears at DU and you state: "Well, Trevor is a friend and I know he had a hard life." I respond with: "I don't care what Trevor's life was like, what he did was wrong!"

See what happened there?! I didn't mention the other two because they weren't brought up in your post! But, by commenting only on Trevor's actions doesn't mean I don't think the other two weren't involved or am claiming Trevor was the only (did it alone) one involved. You brought Europe's attitude toward Israel, I addressed that issue specifically. It isn't my fault you read something into it, nor, after two explanations, you can't seem to understand it wasn't only Europe involved.

3. you do not even refute my assertion that many people in gaza are refugees and their descendants

Why would I? I already know this and I know how it happened. What is wrong on your part is that they were not collected, like the Jews of Poland, and dumped there. Some may have been forced out of what is now Israel, others fled; happens in war. Here's something I bet you didn't know, 1000's of Jews were removed or forced out of Gaza at the same time making them refugees. Also, here's something for you to ponder: why are there Palestinians living in refugee camps in an area controlled by Palestinians? Also, dwell on this: why are descendants (meaning they were born in Gaza) even considered refugees?

4. so you support the idea that palestinians have no right to enter sovereign Israel but Israelis can not only enter Palestine but colonize parts of it (west bank, plus there are Israeli settlements (not colonies i know, just settlements) in Gaza as well as roads that only Israelis can use.

I have already said don't try to read into what I say, you aren't very adept at it, but I am going to add: don't dare speak for me! Yes, Palestinians have no right to enter Israel without Israel's permission. I also said Israelis are going to enter areas controlled by Israel, it is the nature of the beast, but I said nothing about "colonizing" (your continued word of choice) areas in the occupied regions. I will repeat...there are NO Israeli settlements in Gaza! They were dismantled in 2005.

this is from the BBC Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33% of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps. Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers.
Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40% of Gaza’s land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/...

You may want to try again. Your link: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/ hi/english/ static/in_depth/ world/ 2001 /israel_and_palestinians /key_maps /2. stm). It is 2011! Here's some lovely information from the BBC from 2005...Settlers protest at Gaza pullout and

31 August 2011 Last updated at 05:57 ET
Israel profile

Israel evacuated its settlers from the Gaza Strip in 2005 and withdrew its forces, ending almost four decades of military occupation. However, after the militant Islamic group Hamas seized control of Gaza in June 2007, Israel intensified its economic blockade of the Strip. At the end of 2008 it launched a major military assault on Gaza to halt cross-border rocket attacks.

source BBC

5. of course a blockade cripples the economy, look at what us sanctions did to the economies of cuba and iraq and those were not all out blockades we still let others trade with them if they want to which is why i have been able to drink cuban orange juice since i moved to france.

It doesn't always, but it does but a damper in it. Gaza and the West Bank also have trading partners and is not subject to full-on economic blockade (switching those goalposts again).

6. the difference in size between gaza and the warsaw ghetto is not what is important, it is the displacing of people from their homes to the area which is, and despite what you claim many people in gaza were forced from other lands to there, some by the government of Israel, some by the government of Egypt.

The size is important since you are the one claiming similarities between the two. It is just ONE of MANY differences between the two, but I am not at all surprised you are now backing away from one of the differences as it further weakens your absurd and vile comparison. A second reminder: don't speak for me! I never said some in Gaza weren't forced from their homes, I said they weren't gathered up (you know, like the Warsaw Ghetto and all those Polish Jews) and deposited there!

7. from what the bbc says israel controls all the external borders of Gaza, that there are Jewish settlements within Gaza, that there are Israeli controlled roads in Gaza and to let you know you get one border check when you arrive in the Schengen Zone (not all EU nations and some nations from outside the EU) then you cross between nations like crossing between states in the USA, there is a sign and no stop or border guard or anything.

Well, I have already disproved this nonsense and you have kindly demonstrated just how little you actually know about the situation. As for the Schengen Zone, one still has to have and show and EU card or passport!

Entry conditions for third-country nationals
A Schengen visa or a visa exemption does not, in and of itself, entitle a traveler to enter the Schengen Area. The Schengen Borders Code lists requirements which third-country nationals must meet to be allowed into the Schengen Area. For this purpose, a third-country national is a person who does not enjoy the Community right of free movement (i.e. a person who is not an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, or a family member of such a person who is in possession of a residence permit with the indication "family member of an EU citizen" or "family member of an EEA or CH citizen").

The requirements for entry are as follows:<78>
The third-country national is in possession of a valid travel document or documents authorising them to cross the border; the acceptance of travel documents for this purpose remains within the domain of the member states;<79>
The traveler either possesses a valid visa (if required) or a valid residence permit;
The traveler can justify the purpose and conditions of the intended stay and has sufficient means of subsistence, both for the duration of the intended stay and for the return to his or her country of origin or transit to a third country into which the traveler is certain to be admitted, or is in a position to acquire such means lawfully;
The Schengen Information System does not contain an alert for refusal of entry concerning the traveler, and
The traveler is not considered to be a threat to public policy, internal security, public health or the international relations of any of the Schengen states.

Border guards are required to stamp the travel documents of third-country nationals when they cross external borders at all times, even in extraordinary and unforeseen circumstances, including when checks are relaxed. However, nationals of Andorra, Monaco and San Marino are exempt from this requirement, as are heads of state, whose visit what announced through diplomatic channels, and those enjoying the benefit of a local border traffic regime. Certain exemptions also apply to the crews of ships and aircraft.<[br />Schengen Area

How about that! There are still rules for passage through the area. Other places have not established such rules, including the Middle East, so I am not sure why you are trying so hard to act as if that should be (or is) the norm; if that is what you are doing.

8. Hamas can be interpreted in more than one way, violent destruction of Israel or the creation of a new nation, like switzerland, with Palestinian muslim cantons and Israeli jewish cantons (which is an idea i suggested before that you didnt even comment about.

Either way is the destruction of modern day Israel. Are you advocating for such a move? I didn't comment on your "suggestion" because I thought it was stupid. Now you know.

9. you suggest that gaza voting for hamas played no role in the extremist Likud party deciding to bomb them?

Hamas was voted in 2006, from the time of disengagement (2005) to 2006, some 2000 rockets were launched into Israel. This resulted in Israel attacking Gaza. When Hamas overthrew Fatah in Gaza, a maritime blockade was enacted and MORE rockets landed in Israel, and Israel responded. So no, voting in Hamas was not the reason for attacks on Gaza. Learn the history of the area and you might not make such ignorant remarks.

10. i meant to say that the books are edited by israel, the schoolbooks the kids get in palestinian schools in Jerusalem, which sometimes have blanks as opposed to what the kids get in Palestinian schools in gaza and the west bank. there was an exposé on this on france culture this week

You mean the Israeli Education Ministry controls its textbooks? Shocker! :eyes: I really doubt there are blank pages, but I would love to see this "exposé" of which you speak. Is there a link? While you are looking for it, look for the editing the Palestinians do to their school textbooks, including to referring to Jews as "pigs and apes" and not showing Israel on any maps, only "Palestine" where Israel should be.

11. like i said there are just settlements, not colonies in gaza, which must be a huge consolation for the people of gaza.

And, like I said, get more recent information.

my wreched propaganda???

false information????

half truths????

Yup! See above.

biggoted points???? like i said i thought that you implied the "jewish race" when you said before when, i compared gaza to warsaw, and i spoke of people acting as inferior and superior races and you said "arabs are not a race" yet didnt say the same for jewish people i thought it was implied that you considered jewish people to make up a race.

Well, I have already addressed your "implication" conclusions: don't do it. You aren't very good at it.

I also never said that Jews were like Nazis, never, I was comparing the Likud Party run government of Israel with the Nazi Party run government of Germany.

If you say so. However, I find it interesting you NEVER mentioned the Likud until the post to which I am responding but you did mention Jews several times.

I am always up to continue talking and you dont have to worry about any vile anti semitism because I hold no grudge against any religion. I myself have no religion but think that all people on this planet should be free to have whatever religion they wish.

You do understand what anti-Semitism is, right? Just because you don't think your not spewing anti-Semitism, doesn't mean you aren't.

[DemOhio]

7. Damn

I love that accent

RULE BRITANNIA!