Army Official: Waterboarding Breaks Law, Is "Inhumane" (oh, and Sessions is an ass)

[babylonsister]

Run time: 02:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zmi3uLLTVI   Posted on YouTube: February 27, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 27, 2008 By DU Member: babylonsister Views on DU: 1477

 
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/army_official_yes_waterboardin.php

Army Official: Yes, Waterboarding Breaks International Law
By Paul Kiel - February 27, 2008, 2:16PM

With the parade of administration officials who've testified about waterboarding in the past several weeks -- that it was once legal, but is not anymore (though it could be found legal again); that it may "feel like" torture, but that doesn't mean it is torture; that as the U.S. practices it, it bears no relation to the technique used by the Spanish Inquisition (it's more in line with the Khmer Rouge way of doing things) -- you can be excused for feeling more than a little confused.

And you may have despaired of ever seeing a clear, unequivocal exchange on the topic with a government official. Like this one from today's hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee, with Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency:

Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) asked, "General, do you believe that waterboarding is consistent with Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions?"

After pausing a moment to think, Maples replied, "No, sir, I don’t."

"Do you think it’s humane?" Levin asked.

"No, sir, I think it would go beyond that bound."

Later, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), apparently uncomfortable with the deceptive simplicity of that exchange, added some much needed context, pointing out that CIA interrogators had waterboarded detainees "only three times," and that they had done so before the Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that the Geneva Conventions must apply.

[ingac70]

1. Come on now...

The U.S. engaged in a inhumane practice that violated international law ONLY 3 times!

:eyes:

There. I've simplified Sessions' argument for him.

[Tyler Durden]

2. 4 questions for that idiot sessions:

1 Was waterboarding found to be actionable as a war crime under the Nuremberg Protocols?
(YES!)
2 Is the stricture against torture to be found in Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions subscribed to by the US Government?
(YES!)
3 Does the US Constitution hold that all treaties such as the Protocols and the Conventions, ratified by the US Government, hold the full weight of the US Constitution and US Law?
(YES!)
4 Then, Mr. Sessions, by suggesting that this practice ever was legal and that any use of this practice was warranted subject YOU to violation of your sworn oath to uphold and protect the US Constitution?
(YES!)

YOU'RE FIRED.

[ROTC Teecher]

4. Who has Geneva Convention rights?

Article IV of the Geneva Convention states that members of irregular militias qualify for prisoner-of-war status if their military organization satisfies four criteria.

The criteria are: "(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."

Most "militias" do not qualify on (b), (c), and (d) based upon actions.

Also Terrorists do not qualify.

Obviously I'm not so quick to eliminate water boarding. I still have friends in harms way.

[Tyler Durden]

5. I'm an ex USN Hospital Corspman....

And it's a damned shame I didn't have chance to refrigerate some pen VK for you.

The Marines I had the HONOR to serve with would have shot a torturer themselves and called it "pest control."

Obviously you weren't an enlisted man, which excuses you of having no code, and no honor.

By the way, The US Constitution you SWORE to uphold covers the Nuremberg Protocols, and if you read your Conventions, you will see that it has nothing in it regarding "terrorists," and it covers the treatment of prisoners. We have no legal grounds for the "enemy combatant" status. WE MADE IT UP.

I'm glad I don't know you personally, it keeps me from the responsibility I feel as an Honorably Discharged US veteran of reporting you to the Department of Defense. You are obviously not qualified to teach young potential officers.

[ROTC Teecher]

6. Early on in the war, there was

a LtCol who fired his pistol "in the direction" of a prisoner in his units' custody. The prisoner then spilled the beans about an ambush that had been set up specifically to kill the members of this unit that same day.

Did the LtCol do his job or should he have been dealt with my his men in a "pest control" mode?

[Tyler Durden]

8. I repeat: You Have No Honor.

PRAY I don't find out who you really are, because I will be on the phone to the DOD 30 seconds after.

TRUE United States Marines Do Not DISHONOR themselves by mistreating a prisoner.

I hope you believe in GOD and may he forgive you. I surely never will.


The Code of Conduct
I

I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
II
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist.
III
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
IV
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
VI
I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS, AND DEDICATED TO THE PRINCIPLES WHICH MADE MY COUNTRY FREE. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

You have dishonored your uniform, yourself, and your country. Turn in this "traitor" to the United States that you describe and win back a modicum of your honor. UNLESS of course this is all some lie, in which case you are just simply a dishonorable person with no method of redemption.

[lonestarnot]

10. And you didn't report the sonofabitch who broke laws of UCMJ?

You have just admitted guilt of the most atrocious nature. You could get the death penalty.

[Tyler Durden]

11. THANK you.

Good to know I'm not alone here.

SEMPER FI!

[annabanana]

13. so you're ok with torture... russian roulette, mock executions?

[Tyler Durden]

16. THANK YOU ALL!

If this is what this country has come to, then it's no longer the country I swore to protect.

Tell others!

[lonestarnot]

20. Hang in there patriot!

:patriot:

[Tyler Durden]

22. We ALL must hang in there.

This aging vet will sleep better tonight. Thank you.

[lonestarnot]

23. Glad to hear that!

:hug: :grouphug:

[annabanana]

17. Did you witness this? You have personal knowlege of this?

[Steven_S]

25. Sounds like a war crime to me...

LtCol should be brought up on charges.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[annabanana]

14. and who gets to define "terroristt" in your book.. and how?. . n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Richard Steele]

18. Ignorant, mean and stupid is no way to go through life, son. nm

[lonestarnot]

19. Give him a fucking lesson Dick Steele! A teacher is what he calls himself.

Fucking A!

[Richard Steele]

24. He's a cowardly, basement-dwelling wannabe who has never taught anything to anyone.

The closest he's ever been to military service is
playing "Call of Duty" online, and he's not even
very good at that.

[JohnnyLib2]

21. Good God, are you teaching this to young people?

This is a personal interpretation of military law. I can't see your superiors standing behind this. ???

[supernova]

26. And you pretend to teach kids with that lizard brain of yours

The only thing you are doing here is showing your ignorance and giving us natives something to play with.

:hi:

[Supersedeas]

27. AS IF Article 3 did not apply before they broke the law.

[caseycoon]

3. Sessions is a lot worse than a mere ass. n/t

[Hyper_Eye]

7. I am really disturbed by this line of argument

The court decides that article 3 applies to these circumstances and so waterboarding is no longer used (or so they say.) But, the uses before that are justified because the court had not yet made that decision? The court made that decision based on laws that are in place and have been in place for a long time. Does a court ruling make the use of this method illegal only after the ruling? NO! The court is ruling on a law and says, "No, it is not legal!" So, it was already illegal when you got to the court! The court does not make the law. For civilians ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Is the same not true for the government? It would be like saying, "This court has determined that killing Mr. Joe was not legal. Please do not kill Mr. Joe again." Too little too late for the people that got waterboarded.

I live in Alabama and I can tell you right now that stuff like this will not get Sessions in trouble with the voters. Here in AL saying things like this gets you more votes.

[alfredo]

9. Our republic is endangerrf by these authoritarian thugs. Scumbag dictators

torture, not (small D) democrats. American ideal is a moral nation that stands for Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

USASA 65-69 05H20.