Remember: she will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to win.

[beachmom]

I saw Hillary's attack on Obama today (that he was elitist, that she was more American than he was), and I was livid and outraged. Then I remembered my epiphany about the Clintons from last week: they will do whatever it takes to win. Now I am less mad, because I understand that it is not a case where Hillary is doing something she knows is wrong. The fact is she doesn't care whether something she says or does is right or wrong. She will do whatever it takes to move those poll numbers. Moral conscience plays no role in her decision making. Power trumps everything else. It is important that we all internalize this, and I hope the Obama campaign has internalized this as well. She has gone scorched earth, and shown she does not care about the Democratic party or really anything except the goal of winning at all costs.

Also remember this: the Clintons are never, ever, ever sorry about something unless they get caught. Snipergate anyone? Monica, anyone? Otherwise, they don't give a sh**.

So given their lack of a moral compass, it is clear that one should deal with the Clintons calmly and coolly. They are simply a barrier to get around on the way to defeating McCain in the General Election.

[ladym55]

1. Got that

They love their power and aren't going to go away politely.

I just hope her very rabid supporters get their act together and realize that sulking in the fall will put a crazy old man with an anger management problem in the White House.

[wisteria]

2. I agree. We should never lose site of what the Clinton's really are.

I just hope that their efforts fall flat and people see them for what they really are.

[Inuca]

3. It makes me so mad

because I am afraid it may work. I hope and pray that I am wrong. We shall see what the next few days bring (the forum today may give O an opportunity to clear things up somewhat), but so far the O's camp seems clearly on the defensive. Also, what makes me mad and gives me this sickening feeling about the whole affair, is how RIGHT he was in what he said. In the same category as the race issues, painful truths, uncomfortable truths, truths that we much prefer to avoid rather than confront, but truths nevertheless. Not something that he should have to retreat from.

"Livid and outraged" perfectly describe my reaction to Clinton's speeches yesterday. Add disgusted and appalled. The rationalization that it should not come as a surprise, that it is in character and to be expected, did not help much. Her and her camp's reaction, together with McCain's and the RNC's were like vultures, beaks and claws sharpened, descending on a not yet dead victim. Not that O is dead or dying, but I am so much afraid that this can be a serious and painfully undeserved wound.

And on a more "cheerful" note, here are pictures of gun-totting Hillary enjoying a fun Saturday night out with the boys http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

[MBS]

4. I'm a little worried, too, precisely because I know that

they will do anything --ANYTHING-- to win. On the other hand, Barack's response to the flap was MAGNIFICENT. Check out the video at http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=1037

(By the way, the latest post at The Field, http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=1043, gets at the "do anything to win" issue).

[Inuca]

6. That response

was from yesterday morning, and was indeed excellent. But later comments were in a less of a fighting spirit, including the semi-apology. I guess the sinking feeling I have (and that I will do my best to get rid of, sedning the campaign a few measly $s helped a bit :-)) is also because I am reminded of Kerry's reaction to the joke, fight --> pounded on unfairly --> forced to apologize and retreat. There are many more differences than similarities between the two situations, I am aware of that, but still...

[MBS]

8. I totally share your fear, and pain, and I have to fight the same feeling

But one big difference is that Obama has the strong support of classy, effective colleagues like Kerry who are helping Obama fight this stuff.
(unlike Kerry's botched joke incident, in which HRC and others were happy to pile on instead of defending him, the memory of which continues to bring back the sadness and anger. .x(

Unlike many of his predecessor Dem nominees, Kerry totally understands the importance of sharing lessons learned, sharing one's experience and expertise and putting the interests of the country and the party ahead of his own interests, and working for the greater good. And he has been doing all that for Obama. If there were more people like Kerry in politics, our party, and our country, would be in much better shape than it is right now.

Obama's running an excellent campaign, and deserves real credit for that. But he's also helped by the fact that a big chunk in the nation is (finally) in the mood to heed his message and by the fact that people like Kerry and others are really walking the walk for him.

[Inuca]

9. Agree

:hug: I wish/hope that more of the maxi-surrogates will come out and comment on this soon, before it blown out of proportions even more. I saw Daschle (OK, but could have been better) and Cassey (better than I expected) this morning.

[MBS]

5. Here's an interesting take on this, from

Theda Skocpol, a Harvard professor who teaches sociology and government courses there, and who seems to have worked with the Clinton administration at some point:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188673.php

I have been in meetings with the Clintons and their advisors where very clinical things were said in a very-detached tone about unwillingness of working class voters to trust government -- and Bill Clinton -- and about . . . proclivity to vote on life-style rather than economic issues. To see Hillary going absolutely over the top to smash Obama for making clearly more humanly sympathetic observations in this vein, is just amazing. Even more so to see her pretending to be a gun-toting non-elite. Give us a break!

I wonder if she realizes that gaining a few days of lurid publicity that might reach a slice of voters is going to cost her a great deal in the regard of many Democrats, whose strong support she will need if she somehow claws her way to the nomination -- and even more so if she does not clinch the nomination. The distribution of "we're not bitter" stickers to her campaign rallies is the height of over-the-top crudity, and the reports are that very few audience members seem to have much enthusiasm for this nonsense. . . .

Yes . . . she desperately wants the nomination she and Bill believe is hers by right. We all know that. But where is her authenticity and her dignity and her sense of any proportion?

This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! . . .

[Inuca]

7. Great comments, thanks a lot

"The distribution of "we're not bitter" stickers to her campaign rallies is the height of over-the-top crudity"... those stickers and the obvious analogy with the purple band-aids :mad: :puke: :nuke:

[YvonneCa]

10. What Obama needs to Say...

This is JUST how they took Kerry out of 2008 with the 'botched joke.' MSNBC is reporting that Hillary is campaigning today with a "spring in her step", because she knows this is an opening for her to take Obama down. Democrats need to take this VERY seriously.

I am bitter. I am also frustrated and more than a little bit cynical that our politics will improve enough to make the changes that our country needs. But I DO have hope...abd that's because of Obama and Kerry and the Kennedys and the movement that is being built. I am VERY hopeful that we can overcome the politics of 'fear and smear.'

I just heard Hillary on MSNBC saying that Obama needed to 'explain' his remarks. Listening to her reminded me of the day I listened after the joke while she stabbed John Kerry in the back. I wasn't sure it it was on purpose, for political reasons. I now think it definitely was.

So...here's what I would like to hear Barack Obama say:


I DO NOT want him to backtrack or apologize (any more than he already has). I want him to say that people ARE bitter, frustrated and at their wits' end about politics designed to tear the country apart and prevent average (middle-class, working Americans) from having their needs met and their voices heard. I want him to say that he was NOT denigrating their deeply held values of the Second Amendment, religion, etc....or any 'liberal' values (list them) either.

What he WAS saying (as we here know) is that this 'bitterness' and frustration makes us SUSCEPTIBLE to having our values USED against our interests by POLITICIANS. George Bush (with Karl Rove's help) did that to us in 2000 and 2004. They used 'guns, god and gays" to manipulate the system. They used the traditional family values of the religious right for their own selfish political plans. The badly needed and enlightened leadership we needed from Al Gore and John Kerry was denied the country...and look at where we are now! John McCain and Hillary Clinton are using that same brand of politics in 2008. They denied us John Kerry (again) and are aiming at denying us Barack Obama...for their own self interest...over the interest of average, middle-class, working Americans.

To me, that is the very definition of elitist. What Gore and Kerry and Obama stand for is anything BUT. So, American people...a question. What do YOU stand for?

That's what I want to hear Obama say...with all the super delegates (Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, Dodd, Richardson, Carter, etc.) at his side.:patriot:

[liberaldem4ever]

11. Does anyone know which site has the picture of the sinking ship

with Hillary on it that shows the percentage of what they think her chance of winning the primary is? I thought I saved it to my favs but I can't find it. The last time I saw it her chances were at 12%. I'm just wondering what it is now cause that was a while ago. Thanks. :pals: