You know, it really comes as no surprise, but I'm fuming none the less.....

[cboy4]

The viciousness of this place seemingly knows no bounds.

I've not said much over the past couple of days, because it might have been tombstone city for me responding to some of these obnoxious posts.

But what has bothered me most about all of this Cindy Sheehan bashing, is not necessarily those who simply and honestly believe it's best that she retires.

It's all of the fricking taunting and "in your face" celebration by individuals who know there are so many of us who are deeply hurt, sad and disappointed she was run out of town by so called progressives, including someone here.

It's one thing to articulate your view by explaining why you think it's best she retired.

It's another thing to taunt and gloat and post crap, simply to enrage without any regard for people's feelings.

It's nasty and it makes me sick.

[SeattleGirl]

1. Hear, hear, cboy4.

That's exactly how I feel. But I keep thinking about how prophets are seldom welcomed in their own town. That seems to be what's happening to Cindy, much to my dismay. She doesn't deserve to be kicked to the curb in the way she has been by some people. I have a daughter, and just the thought of losing her brings tears to my eyes. To actually lose a child, for whatever reason, is beyond comprehension.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

3. It has always been thus

whatever the occasion, there are hurt and aching DUers, and there are those who are not sensitive to this and post crap.

[SoCalDem]

4. Precisely why I mostly stay out of those things..

Nothing we say or do will alter her decision. No doubt she's just worn to a frazzle. If she needs time to decompress, it's her decision.

just as her way of mourning her son is her decision.

If you think about it, she's probably not been alone with her thoughts since Casey died.. This had been her "keeping busy" phase, but now she's apparently ready to deal with the enormity of it all, and who knows..she may decide to speak out again, but even if she does not, she shined a big ole light on a lot of stuff people had been ignoring.

[Faux pas]

5. I've steered clear of every Sheehan thread. I don't want to read

slams against a grieving mother who has worked so tirelessly to end this bogus war. She wasn't doing it for herself, she was doing it for others out there who might be in danger of losing their own children. Sometimes people just don't think before they start the sh*t slinging. Makes me sick too.

[Kiouni]

7. I went to one of her rallies

and setting my own views of her leadership abilities and overall impact aside, she still has done more then I have to stop the "war."

[Faux pas]

24. All I've done is sign petitions, send letters and emails. Cindy

should be proud of her contributions to the movement.

[cboy4]

9. I've tried to stay clear of as many as I can. But the sad thing is I

think these people *are* thinking before they "start the sh*t slinging."

They just want to cause pain.

[Faux pas]

25. Infliction of more pain on a mother who has lost a child is beyond

cruel. To me, cruelty is a conscious act, that makes it extra sad.

[pnwmom]

6. The only problem with Cindy is that she's fully human.

Like all of us, she's a human being, capable of great things and also sometimes of making mistakes.

And some here people react to any sign of weakness or imperfection like sharks to blood in the water.

I don't think that any of us, especially those who haven't lost a child to that war, are justified in judging anything that she does. She's been trying to make her son's death count for something, and she's made a monumental effort to reach people.

I applaud her and I hope she can begin to heal.

[radfringe]

8. all she wanted was an answer to a simple question

she wanted bush to explain the reasons why her son died in Iraq. It's a simple question and also a big question because it encompasses more than just Cindy's son - it includes all those who have died, those who have been wounded and those who are still fighting "over there".

It asks why are we there. 4 years into the war/occupation and we still do not have an honest answer.

I don't believe she set out to be the face of an anti-war movement, the movement grew around her determination to get an honest answer. Was she caught up in it? Yes, and with it comes supporters and critics and those who want to use her for their own agenda and it became overwhelming.

She's not running for public office nor is she trying to win a popularity contest - she just wants an answer. With her camping outside of bush's "ranch" she threw a pebble into the ocean and started a tsunami.

She's still waiting for an answer. Whether she or the rest of us will get that answer will depend on a choice. Do we put political considerations ahead of the truth? Politics before people or people before politics?

[jonnyblitz]

10. and it's not all "newbies and trolls" doing this like many claim

it's old time DUers who believe in party over principle and who are fine with Cindy as long as she is just going after the GOP. for some reason they think DEMS should get a pass for their war support, which is BULLSHIT! I have had it with these party loyalist ASSHOLES!! :puke:

[cboy4]

11. No you're right. It's not all newbies and trolls, yet the number of

sub-1000+ posters involved in stirring up so much of the ugliness is hard to ignore.

It makes one wonder.

[bvar22]

18. # of posts means nothing.

Check the profile for the length of time the asshole has been at DU.
Its possible to run up 1000 useless posts in a couple of days in The Lounge.
Most of these people have "profile disabled".
Some of them have been here for a while, but very few. "They" started showing up after DU gained some Media recognition. They did not come here to contribute to a Liberal website.

Large Corporations and the politicians they own have large budgets dedicated to Media Consultants/ Image Doctors. These corporations hire staff to haunt Liberal sites on the Internet to disrupt, "catapult" Corpo Propaganda, propagate "astroturf", and discredit Progressive leaders.
(See any Chavez thread).
They are slightly harder to spot than Freepers, but there are some symptoms:

*Anyone (besides the OP) responding over 3-4 times to a thread is suspect. How many times does it take to state your opinion, clarify your position, and then make room for someone else? Someone posting more than this has an agenda that is beyond contributing to a dialog. Most of this type of disruption comes from those who:

*Support the Iraq Occupation (though they may be smart enough to not say so directly). Their support will be revealed by their support of politicians who will fund and extend the occupation.

*Support Unfair Trade

*Support the Corporate Wing of the Democratic Party

*Support the Status Quo in DC (no talk of impeachment OR holding any politician accountable to the Public)


Not all assholes are on somebody's payroll, but some of them at DU are. It would be naive to believe otherwise. I expect this problem will get worse as the CorpoWings of both Parties become more frantic to hold on to their control.

Good Post!
K&R

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[cboy4]

19. Yes, you're right. Good points and thanks.

:)

[Individualist]

23. You've just described DLC supporters,

and they'll never admit that's what they are.

[KoKo]

12. Well said...the taunting and gloating. The accusations.

It wasn't necessary unless one had an "agenda."

[Iris]

13. I'm completely out of the loop. What's going on with Sheehan? n/t

[Buzz Clik]

28. Cindy Sheehan announced very recently that she's "retiring"

She no longer wants to be the poster child for the anti-war movement. She wrote an article indirectly quoting a DUer who called her an attention whore. Yesterday was mess in the GD.

Interestingly, Cindy spent a good deal of time this morning on various radio programs.

[Iris]

34. er. . .which radio programs?

or dare I ask?

[tabasco]

14. Things need to tighten up a bit.

I know that the management wants to keep an open exchange of ideas, but they need to tighten things up with some of these under-the-radar types. IMO, it is ruining DU.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Could we just clarify something here?

The people that are celebrating are NOT progressives. Just someone calls himself/herself progressive doesn't mean they are.

Ignore is your friend.

[cboy4]

16. No, I disagree about ignore being my friend. When you ignore

ugliness, people are allowed to get away with bad things -- or at least they are more often.

Sometimes, wearing blinders in life does more harm than good.

[slipslidingaway]

17. K&R well said.

"It's one thing to articulate your view...

It's another thing to taunt and gloat...

It's nasty and it makes me sick."

[Spazito]

20. Agree, it has been appalling, imo

I have to say, though, the posters, by and large, who are taunting and nasty are what I would call my "usual" suspects. They are nothing if not consistent in the tone of their posts on more than one issue and are NOT newcomers, sadly.

[jillan]

21. I agree- and it hasn't only been about Cindy

I was called a "F****" because I support Biden.

The words used against Gore, and all of the candidates over the last few days.

What is going on around here????
Even Air America was dissing DU over and over again yesterday.

Have we lost our ability for a civil discussion? Or has it became who can yell the loudest?

[cboy4]

22. It's not even a case of who can yell the loudest, in my opinion...

it's the person who can inflict the most hurt.

And if you think things are bad right now, juuuuuust wait until we get closer to the primaries. :scared:

[Neecy]

26. it's a strange dynamic, to be sure

Some of the Sheehan detractors have been able to articulate their issues without the personal venom. Granted, not many - but a few.

Many of them, though, demonstrate a rage that seems oddly out of proportion to the subject being discussed. Where else have we seen that kind of rage and anger being vented not only against Sheehan but against ANY anti-war activist? I think we know the answer to that.

What the Sheehan detractors of all stripes have failed to articulate is where they believe the anti-war movement is going and how to best organize our efforts. The yellow dogs and DLC'ers are understandably silent in this issue since last week's vote. The hyper-rage addicts are naturally silent as well. But I think it's a central issue now and that's not being discussed at all.

[Buzz Clik]

27. Those taunting, in your face anti-Cindy threads/posts have been replaced ...

... by angry, taunting, in your face "you are worthy to lick her boots" threads/posts.

I have little use for either approach.

[cboy4]

29. Maybe so, but considering how nasty so many people were

particularly yesterday (including one arrogant a**hole who ended up finally getting TD'd), it's not surprising some Cindy supporters may have been provoked to the brink where perhaps they did finally lash out with some of their comments.

I don't know what you're talking about, but if it's true, I don't frankly blame them.

[Buzz Clik]

33. Trust me, I am not excusing their behavior.

[bvar22]

32. And yet, you have multiple posts to most of them.

Hmmmm.

[dogday]

30. I feel nothing but pity for these people who

are so weighed down by their own mean spirited insults...

Their life can only be what I assume, a miserable existence to want to inflict so much pain and insults toward others...

Happy people don't need to use this type of attitude or language toward others. Intelligent people don't need to hurl insults at others as well...

So that just leaves a miserable, uneducated, person.

[LibraLiz1973]

31. Your right- I've seen a few threads that have made my head spin

You would think it was Ann Coulter announcing she was leaving the country. Forever.