After Dems war vote, was Nader right, there's not a dime's worth of difference between two parties?

[yurbud]

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. You said the N word!

In before the lock. :hi:

[gravity]

2. Remember 2000?

There is a huge difference between the Dems and Repubs. If you need any proof, just compare the 8 years of Clinton with Bush.

[unpossibles]

4. I agree. What's funny is I agreed with Nader in 2000

and after 6 years of Bush I disagree with him. We may have some problems and some corruption - and we do - but it is nowhere near as frightening as the thugs now occupying the White House and almost half of Congress.

[gravity]

12. Same here

It was long before I realized that there was a big difference. I even mistakenly thought that passionate conservatism might not be that bad. What's the worst Bush can do?

The problem is that presidential candidates try to appeal to the center, making them appear the same when they really are at polar ends of political spectrum.

[Tesha]

7. Yeah! NAFTA, DMCA, Media consolidation Welfare dismantling, ...

> If you need any proof, just compare the 8 years of Clinton with Bush.

Yeah! Under Clinton we got NAFTA, DMCA, Media consolidation
supported in law, Welfare dismantling, the complete emasculation
of the Democratic Party, the starving of Iraqis, etc...

All of which were *KEY ENABLERS* for Bush to bring us the USA
PATRIOT Acts I and II, warrentless wiretapping, the direct
murder of Iraqis, etc.

I'm sorry, but the difference isn't nearly as clear cut
to me as it is to you; I see the things that Clinton did
as directly leading to the things that Bush has been able
to do.

Tesha

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. And do not forget DADT and DOMA

I was pissed beyond words when Clinton signed DOMA late on a Friday night, as secretly as it is possible for a President to sign a bill into law, then sent Gore out to whine about how nationalized bigotry is good for the country.

[Donnachaidh]

15. oh yeah -- and WHO controlled the CONGRESS at the time?

But hey, let's just pile it all on Clinton. :eyes:

Nader should just shut his mouth and stay out of it entirely. Talk about ENABLING the destruction.

[TechBear_Seattle]

34. Who could have vetoed the legislation?

It would have been very easy to veto bills and force Congress to override if they could. Instead, he signed it all.

AND you ignore the fact that NAFTA was championed by the Clinton administration from the start.

[yurbud]

20. GOP posts all those Dem quotes about Saddam, and they have part of a point

Clinton enforced sanctions on Saddam AFTER we had kicked his ass and destroyed 80% of his military.

and many Dems supported the war in Iraq until it was unpopular to do so.

You can also read up on how Clinton handled Haiti, and other lower level conflicts.

Clinton had a different, subtler method, but pursued similar goals, including passing NAFTA which accelerated the outflow of American manufacturing jobs.

[Justyce]

3. The difference is the economy, and that's a big difference.

[tjwash]

5. Oh yeah. 6 months of a slim Dem majority in Congress will undo 12 years of neo-con damage

:eyes:

[yurbud]

25. have they tried?

[bryant69]

6. I question the wisdom of allowing one vote to determine your opinion of a party

Obviously this was a major vote, but no more major than, say the IWR resolution a few years ago.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Tesha]

8. It's not just one vote, and you damn well know it.

The latest vote is just the latest capitulation
in a long, long string of capitulations on everything
from the war to the Supreme Court to the media to...

Tesha

[bryant69]

9. I'm sorry I only "well know it," I don't "damn well know it"

That said, thank you for agreeing with me, that if you want to judge the Democratic Party you have to look at more than just this one vote. Obviously we come up with different answers on the value of the Democratic party, but our methodology seems similar. So there's that.

Bryant

[ToeBot]

11. It's hard to tell, they're both fighting over the damn dime. n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. No; That Egocentric, Selfish, Arrogant, Ignorant, Deceitful, Narcissistic Utter Piece Of Shit Nader

was not right.

[unpossibles]

14. you need to relax a bit.

:)

hugs?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. I Am Relaxed. But Thank You For Your Concern.

[yurbud]

24. did you have some evidence to back up the insults?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. Yes. His Entire Campaign. He's An Arrogant, Deceitful, Selfish, Egotistical, Narcissistic Loser.

Fuck Nader and his enabling of the current state we find ourselves in. Man what a piece of shit he is.

[yurbud]

27. wow. that changes everything. do you know any more adjectives?

[doggyboy]

39. Delusional, messiah complex, self-centered, disingenous,

dispassionate

[MasonJar]

16. I am shocked that 46% have voted YES. What sand has your head been

in for the past 6+ years? Egad! You have said that the presidency of Al Gore would have been no different than the presidency of W has been; what total balderdash!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

18. RALPH NADER WAS RIGHT.

Your poll raises the issue that I have included in 10 of my posts over the last week.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Right Wing Maybe. But Right? Not Even Close.

Fuck Nader.

[The Stranger]

28. "Right" as in correct.

Nader is farther to the Left than anyone in America. If you think he is "Right Wing," I want some of what you have been smoking.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. I Mean, Like, He's Only Responsible For The Bush Nightmare To Begin With And All.

I'd say he's the best friend the right wing's ever had! :rofl:

[NoGOPZone]

32. No, that distinction goes to five Justices

that put politics ahead of laws they were supposed to uphold.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. No, Sorry, That Distinction Lays Square Upon His Shoulders.

Fuck Nader. Without him, the justices would've been moot.

[NoGOPZone]

35. What Nader did was self indulgent. It was not

immoral or illegal. The Supreme Court's action WAS immoral and a strong case can and has been made that it was also illegal. That's where the anger should lie.

[The Stranger]

40. Stay with me here: Nader told everyone that electing the Democrats would be little different from

electing Republicans. And, given recent events, including the semi-secret withdrawal of legislation preventing a Neocon-Iran war, the cowardly backing down from preventing the ongoing Iraq disaster (and effectively backing the war by funding it), the same ol' same ol' pandering to various corporate interests (-- still with me? --) THAT is proving to be just like electing Republicans.

THAT is how Ralph Nader was right.

[Orangepeel]

19. silly question. If Gore had won in 2000, THERE WOULDN'T BE A WAR!

There probably wouldn't have been a 9/11, since Gore would have taken terrorism seriously beforehand, and, if there were, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq for no reason.

[yurbud]

22. big oil wanted Saddam out. If Gore resisted, with neocon tool Lieberman as VP...

what do you think would have happened to Gore?

[The Stranger]

29. You got it -- Leibercon may have been the guarantee war would happen one way or the other.

[yurbud]

36. kind of opposite of Papa Bush having Quayle as life insurance

No one would dare kill him since it meant Quayle would be president.

[Orangepeel]

38. well, maybe --

but whether someone who was so extreme that he has since left the party* would be part of a coup is a very different question than whether there is "a dime's worth of difference" between Bush and Gore.


*to be fair to Gore, at the time Lieberman was more prissy and whiney than war mongering crazy.

[WinkyDink]

42. And the reason they couldn't get this done in Clinton's 8 years was...?

I don't buy this argument at all.

[gravity]

31. Exactly

I'm tired of all of this bullshit how the Dems are just like the Republicans.

[mdmc]

37. We are just a wee bit better then the GOP

:kick:

[WinkyDink]

41. NO!! Nader is a MORAN if he thinks Gore or Kerry would have:

~~~Bombed Iraq (let alone ignored that infamous unread PDB);
~~~Approved torture;
~~~Signed away Habeas Corpus;
~~~Looted to enrich Halliburton and Bechtel;
~~~Destroyed a covert CIA mission in Iraq;
~~~Let New Orleans drown and scattered her denizens to the four winds, some to live behind barbed wire;
~~~Ignored Global warming and dumped the Kyoto treaty.

Your turn!