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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:36 PM
Original message
FAIR on Chavez and the TV station
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3107

Media Advisory

Coup Co-Conspirators as Free-Speech Martyrs
Distorting the Venezuelan media story

5/25/07

The story is framed in U.S. news media as a simple matter of censorship: Prominent Venezuelan TV station RCTV is being silenced by the authoritarian government of President Hugo Chávez, who is punishing the station for its political criticism of his government.

According to CNN reporter T.J. Holmes (5/21/07), the issues are easy to understand: RCTV "is going to be shut down, is going to get off the air, because of President Hugo Chávez, not a big fan of it." Dubbing RCTV "a voice of free speech," Holmes explained, "Chavez, in a move that's angered a lot of free-speech groups, is refusing now to renew the license of this television station that has been critical of his government."

Though straighter, a news story by the Associated Press (5/20/07) still maintained the theme that the license denial was based simply on political differences, with reporter Elizabeth Munoz describing RCTV as "a network that has been critical of Chávez."

In a May 14 column, Washington Post deputy editorial page editor Jackson Diehl called the action an attempt to silence opponents and more "proof" that Chávez is a "dictator." Wrote Diehl, "Chávez has made clear that his problem with Granier and RCTV is political."

In keeping with the media script that has bad guy Chávez brutishly silencing good guys in the democratic opposition, all these articles skimmed lightly over RCTV's history, the Venezuelan government's explanation for the license denial and the process that led to it.

RCTV and other commercial TV stations were key players in the April 2002 coup that briefly ousted Chávez's democratically elected government. During the short-lived insurrection, coup leaders took to commercial TV airwaves to thank the networks. "I must thank Venevisión and RCTV," one grateful leader remarked in an appearance captured in the Irish film The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. The film documents the networks' participation in the short-lived coup, in which stations put themselves to service as bulletin boards for the coup?hosting coup leaders, silencing government voices and rallying the opposition to a march on the Presidential Palace that was part of the coup plotters strategy.

On April 11, 2002, the day of the coup, when military and civilian opposition leaders held press conferences calling for Chávez's ouster, RCTV hosted top coup plotter Carlos Ortega, who rallied demonstrators to the march on the presidential palace. On the same day, after the anti-democratic overthrow appeared to have succeeded, another coup leader, Vice-Admiral Victor Ramírez Pérez, told a Venevisión reporter (4/11/02): "We had a deadly weapon: the media. And now that I have the opportunity, let me congratulate you."

That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much. As reporter Juan Forero, Jackson Diehl's colleague at the Washington Post, explained (1/18/07), "RCTV, like three other major private television stations, encouraged the protests," resulting in the coup, "and, once Chávez was ousted, cheered his removal." The conservative British newspaper the Financial Times reported (5/21/07), " officials argue with some justification that RCTV actively supported the 2002 coup attempt against Mr. Chávez."

As FAIR's magazine Extra! argued last November, "Were a similar event to happen in the U.S., and TV journalists and executives were caught conspiring with coup plotters, it's doubtful they would stay out of jail, let alone be allowed to continue to run television stations, as they have in Venezuela."

When Chávez returned to power the commercial stations refused to cover the news, airing instead entertainment programs--in RCTV's case, the American film Pretty Woman. By refusing to cover such a newsworthy story, the stations abandoned the public interest and violated the public trust that is seen in Venezuela (and in the U.S.) as a requirement for operating on the public airwaves. Regarding RCTV's refusal to cover the return of Chavez to power, Columbia University professor and former NPR editor John Dinges told Marketplace (5/8/07):

What RCTV did simply can't be justified under any stretch of journalistic principles. When a television channel simply fails to report, simply goes off the air during a period of national crisis, not because they're forced to, but simply because they don't agree with what's happening, you've lost your ability to defend what you do on journalistic principles.

The Venezuelan government is basing its denial of license on RCTV's involvement in the 2002 coup, not on the station's criticisms of or political opposition to the government. Many American pundits and some human rights spokespersons have confused the issue by claiming the action is based merely on political differences, failing to note that Venezuela's media, including its commercial broadcasters, are still among the most vigorously dissident on the planet.

When Patrick McElwee of the U.S.-based group Just Foreign Policy interviewed representatives of Human Rights Watch, Reporters Without Borders and the Committee to Protect Journalists?all groups that have condemned Venezuela's action in denying RCTV's license renewal?he found that none of the spokespersons thought broadcasters were automatically entitled to license renewals, though none of them thought RCTV's actions in support of the coup should have resulted in the station having its license renewal denied. This led McElwee to wonder, based on the rights groups' arguments, "Could it be that governments like Venezuela have the theoretical right to not to renew a broadcast license, but that no responsible government would ever do it?"

McElwee acknowledged the critics' point that some form of due process should have been involved in the decisions, but explained that laws preexisting Chávez's presidency placed licensing decision with the executive branch, with no real provisions for a hearings process: "Unfortunately, this is what the law, first enacted in 1987, long before Chávez entered the political scene, allows. It charges the executive branch with decisions about license renewal, but does not seem to require any administrative hearing. The law should be changed, but at the current moment when broadcast licenses are up for renewal, it is the prevailing law and thus lays out the framework in which decisions are made."

Government actions weighing on journalism and broadcast licensing deserve strong scrutiny. However, on the central question of whether a government is bound to renew the license of a broadcaster when that broadcaster had been involved in a coup against the democratically elected government, the answer should be clear, as McElwee concludes:



The RCTV case is not about censorship of political opinion. It is about the government, through a flawed process, declining to renew a broadcast license to a company that would not get a license in other democracies, including the United States. In fact, it is frankly amazing that this company has been allowed to broadcast for 5 years after the coup, and that the Chávez government waited until its license expired to end its use of the public airwaves.



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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. So many posts about Chavez that shed so little light.
Here is what Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR), a generally well-respected group among progressives, had to say. It may have been poste before in one of the threads, but I think it is worth posting again, given the intense interest in the topic here these days.

Please read the OP
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now now... Hugo eats babies, remember that. Thanks, btw, for the link
I suspect folks who are preparing the pitchforks and torches won't want to be confused by facts, but this coverage does clear things up.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. no shit.
It's easier to rework some clever phrases about how evil the guy is than to try to understand the situation, I guess.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Hmm, it does appear to be the case that thoughtful analysis...
...is not overly appreciated by the folks zinging the witty one-liners.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. Just to clarify-- I didn't use the sarcasm smilie. I'm happy that FAIR is on top of this
and sheds light on an issue for which most people only read the headline and start boiling the tar.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. I still think it's bullshit.
Edited on Wed May-30-07 02:47 PM by LoZoccolo
On April 11, 2002, the day of the coup, when military and civilian opposition leaders held press conferences calling for Chávez's ouster, RCTV hosted top coup plotter Carlos Ortega, who rallied demonstrators to the march on the presidential palace.

So a TV station should be shut down for covering a press conference where someone

Does this mean ABC/CBS/NBC should be shut down for aiding and abetting terrorism, for airing bin Laden's statement encouraging "jihad" against the United States?

That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much.

This article glosses over this. The most important part of the article is the alleged involvement in the coup, and they fail to establish it.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. They refused to show any other side except the anti-Chavez one.
In the US no TV station (over the air station) would be able to get away with that.

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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You're wrong on that point.
The Fairness Doctrine mandated equal airtime for all views on public broadcast airwaves, but that was junked in the 1980s under Reagan.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You're right...
They used to not be able to get away with it.

Yet Dan Rather has one story against Bush with questionable evidence, and his career is basically ended.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. That's because Dan Rather was walking into a gun fight with a pair of brass knuckles
I'm pretty sure Rather was well aware of the firestorm that was about to hit him when he aired that piece. Regardless if Bush was AWOL--and if true he should be prosecuted for desertion like any ordinary soldier--it doesn't detract from how sorry his leadership has been for the country.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. If a station in this country advocated a coup against Bushco,...
,...lots of people would go directly to jail, maybe even Gitmo, as 'terrorists' seeking to overthrow the government. There wouldn't be merely a denial of a license, rest assured.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. even without the fairness doctrine, stations can have their renewal denied
and such gross misrepresentation would certainly be cause for objections to that renewal.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. That depends on the situation.
If all NBC News or any other corporate outlet did was simply not broadcast any Democratic viewpoints and simply aired Republican viewpoints, then you can't do anything about it.

If NBC News advocated attacking the government in support of a violent overthrow of the US government, NBC News will be taken off the air, and General Electric will lose its broadcast license, since they own NBC. The Supreme Court has ruled that free speech protections are lifted if one advocates a course of action leading to the violent overthrow of a government in cases dealing with the Smith Act.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Just Like All Fox News
Fox News refuses to show any side except the pro-Bush, pro-War side.

After we elect a Democratic President in 2008, maybe she will be able to see that Fox News no longer gets away with that.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Fox News is different, as it is on cable
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Cable, Schmable
Cable, schmable.

It SHOULD make NO difference.

Fox News should NOT be allowed to broadcast only one-sided "news".

No station in the US should be allowed to get away with broadcasting ONLY the pro-Bush, pro-war side of things.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. it makes a huge difference
because the broadcast spectrum is a scarce resource, the government has an interest in regulating its use. What a cable network says is a free speech issue.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. But Even "Free Speech" Has Its Limits
I aqree with you that Free Speech should not apply when we discuss broadcast news.

Broadcast news should certainly be regulated -- in the public interest. Only those who agree to broadcast news in the public interest should be allowed to broadcast. Because, after all, the broadcast spectrum is a scarce resource.

But cable, too, should be regulated so that what any cable network says or shows is done in the public interest.

Cable operators should be held accountable for anything they carry that is not in the public interest.
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Rosephase Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. And who gets to decide what is in the publics interest?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. democratically elected officials
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. I disagree
the government has absolutely no right to control the content of cable television. That pesky first-amendment thing.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
71. It does make a real difference
Cable doesn't have the physical limitations that airwaves do, therefore there is no need for a process to deal fairly with the issue of scarcity of resources.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Fox News Cable can do that
Just as RCTV could go on cable and rant and rave about Chavez all they want, if they chose to.

Rules regarding the public airwaves and cable/satellite are completely different for different reasons.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. My Local Fox Affiliate, Then
My local Fox affiliate (which is a broadcast station) is just like Fox News.

My local Fox affiliate -- when it runs "news" programs -- ONLY broadcasts things that are pro-Bush and pro-war.

It makes fun of Democrats. The "anchors" sneer and smirk when they speak of Hillary or Barak.

The station should not be allowed to get away with that.

It only gets away with doing that because it favors Bush.

Come 2008, it will no longer get away with doing that.

It will broadcast BOTH sides or be forced off the air.

Which is exactly how it should be.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. It was an open and public plot to overthrow the Democratically elected government
What do you think Bush* would do if a TV station started to actively promote his assassination or the overthrow of his government in a violent manner? I doubt he would let that station stay on the air for five years actively trying to incite. It does give one pause as to where the line lies between freedom of speech vs threat to country. In these days we all really have to be careful of what we say. Things can be taken out of context..
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Don't let facts get in the way of opinion.
You say that RCTV's involvement in the coup has not been established. FAIR says "even mainstream media outlets have acknowledged as much" and cites them.

Hmmm, who to believe, anonymous internet poster or respected media watch organization?


The key paragraphs, one more time:

RCTV and other commercial TV stations were key players in the April 2002 coup that briefly ousted Chávez's democratically elected government. During the short-lived insurrection, coup leaders took to commercial TV airwaves to thank the networks. "I must thank Venevisión and RCTV," one grateful leader remarked in an appearance captured in the Irish film The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. The film documents the networks' participation in the short-lived coup, in which stations put themselves to service as bulletin boards for the coup?hosting coup leaders, silencing government voices and rallying the opposition to a march on the Presidential Palace that was part of the coup plotters strategy.

On April 11, 2002, the day of the coup, when military and civilian opposition leaders held press conferences calling for Chávez's ouster, RCTV hosted top coup plotter Carlos Ortega, who rallied demonstrators to the march on the presidential palace. On the same day, after the anti-democratic overthrow appeared to have succeeded, another coup leader, Vice-Admiral Victor Ramírez Pérez, told a Venevisión reporter (4/11/02): "We had a deadly weapon: the media. And now that I have the opportunity, let me congratulate you."

That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much. As reporter Juan Forero, Jackson Diehl's colleague at the Washington Post, explained (1/18/07), "RCTV, like three other major private television stations, encouraged the protests," resulting in the coup, "and, once Chávez was ousted, cheered his removal." The conservative British newspaper the Financial Times reported (5/21/07), " officials argue with some justification that RCTV actively supported the 2002 coup attempt against Mr. Chávez."

As FAIR's magazine Extra! argued last November, "Were a similar event to happen in the U.S., and TV journalists and executives were caught conspiring with coup plotters, it's doubtful they would stay out of jail, let alone be allowed to continue to run television stations, as they have in Venezuela."
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. There is video footage of RCTV congratulating the coup plotters
and the coup plotters saying they couldn't have done it without their help.

It's all available for free download on the internet.

But it's still just "an allegation" from the deranged Venezuelan dictator according to most news media.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Congratulations on robbing the bank, killbotfactory.
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:00 PM by LoZoccolo


NOTE: This post is sarcastic.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Shit...
Did you find the footage of me taking a bath in 100 dollar bills poured from bags with $$$ printed on them?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. I read that.
George W. Bush* acted like they already knew that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction before the war. It wasn't true. And just because someone goes and says "That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much" doesn't mean they've shown it to be true. Mainstream outlets have called Chavez a dictator as well; do you agree with that?

And so Pérez was sucking up to the media; that doesn't prove anything. Can I just walk up to someone and congratulate them for doing something illegal that they didn't do, and have that be used as a basis for prosecuting them?

"RCTV, like three other major private television stations, encouraged the protests," resulting in the coup, "and, once Chávez was ousted, cheered his removal."

If protests are illegal there then there should be a coup.

The conservative British newspaper the Financial Times reported (5/21/07), " officials argue with some justification that RCTV actively supported the 2002 coup attempt against Mr. Chávez."

And that justification would be...?

It's an argument from authority at best, and that's fallacious.

As FAIR's magazine Extra! argued last November, "Were a similar event to happen in the U.S., and TV journalists and executives were caught conspiring with coup plotters, it's doubtful they would stay out of jail, let alone be allowed to continue to run television stations, as they have in Venezuela."

Pretty weak when they have to dig up themselves as a source.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Just a minute: are you saying you doubt extreme consequences should a coup be plotted,...
,...against ANY President in this country, let alone the Bush presidency?

Are you kidding?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Nnnnoooooooo...
I'm saying I don't see where they plotted the coup. They gave a prominent figure in the government coverage at a press conference is what it seems like. Then they got thanked for covering the press conference. If that's such a crime, then the broadcast networks here should be shut down for giving time to bin Laden.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. They were intrumental in getting anti-Chavez protesters to march on pro-Chavez protesters
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:28 PM by killbotfactory
The move was illegal, and condemned by the government, because it could (and did thanks to pro-coup snipers) result in violence and death. RCTV refused to air that. In fact, shortly after the call to stop the march upon the presidential palace, where the pro-Chavez protesters were, the state run channel was sabotaged and taken off the air by the people behind the coup. The result was an information monopoly by forced wanting to overthrow the government, and a blackout of all other voices, all the the applauding and cheering of the people behind RCTV, who helped by manipulating footage to lay the blame on Chavez. That what these fine upstanding free-speech martyrs accomplished, the total shutdown of all opposition views for the next three days.

Getting the protesters to clash was instrumental in the coup plot, as it was the catalyst to start the military takeover of government.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
78. And yet still there's no evidence that the station knew anything about it.
Were they in the know or manipulated by larger forces? We really don't know that, and no one's been convicted of anything.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Whew. Okay. But, you still deny participation in a coup.
What evidence is required to convince you that this broadcast participated? Be at least somewhat specific about that evidence required so I can produce it for you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Thing is, our own leadership has utilized OUR money to propagate via corporacrats,...
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:46 PM by sicksicksick_N_tired
,...and here's an unleashed indictment against a man who has, by his every action, attempted to serve the interests of ALL the people by leashing in the power/money-mongers.

When democracy seems to be bought and sold, here and abroad, precisely how is any leader suppose to combat the predators?

I'd don't know the answer but I sure would go after the big guys to protect the rest of the people from economic terror.

Moreover, this isn't a freakin' war of ideas. I hate when the arrogants throw that bs out there to cover their amoral butts. This is a war between the robber/power barrons and human rights and dignity.

When I read knee-jerk responses to 'free market' and whatnot, I figure,...the indocrinated are screaming bloody murder about being challenged.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Whatever you've got.
The burden's on the prosecution, even though that may not be the case in Venezuela anymore.

I do know that not one person from the station was prosecuted for this supposed act of treason though.

But if this is the best that FAIR can do, it's pretty lame, for the reasons I've already outlined.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. ????
Venezuala elected a leader in a heavily monitored election.

If you find FAIR, "pretty lame", how do you find the state of our own union? Are you perfectly satisfied? If not, why go after another state when you live in this state?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Because this thread is about Chavez and Venezuela.
Not here. There are a lot of other threads where we talk about here.
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. They are not sourcing themselves.
They simply are referring back to a previous article that showed their OPINION.

Try to actually make your case without spinning, if that's posible for you.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Right. You make my point for me.
It's not established; it's just their opinion.
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. That's just your opinion.
Since they didn't quote themselves to establish "anything," (the proof of the coup conspiracy is elsewhere in the article) pat yourself on the back once again for winning an argument nobody else is having.
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DemDem07 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Did you read the OP at all?
That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much. As reporter Juan Forero, Jackson Diehl's colleague at the Washington Post, explained (1/18/07), "RCTV, like three other major private television stations, encouraged the protests," resulting in the coup, "and, once Chávez was ousted, cheered his removal." The conservative British newspaper the Financial Times reported (5/21/07), " officials argue with some justification that RCTV actively supported the 2002 coup attempt against Mr. Chávez."
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Yes, I did.
Read my other reply.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Don't waste your time. He is immune to any argument that does not...
...fit his opinion.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. RCTV should be shut down, but I disagree with how Chavez did it.
The law as it has been written since 1987 simply says that the decision to renew or revoke a broadcast license is up to the executive branch; however, it doesn't stipulate anything in the form of public hearings to allow the public to weigh in on the issue or anything resembling a trial, and it doesn't stipulate how the allotted airwaves, if it has been revoked from the corporation, should be handled. It doesn't mandate a public auction where the alloted airwaves are given to a new corporation or an alternative route that turns the station over to the workers organized as a news enterprise cooperative where the workers are essentially the shareholders.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why are you even bothering? The people who are foolish
enough to eat up what CNN and the corporate media tell them will never change their minds, will never listen.

Coups and attempted coups are just extenuating circumstances I guess.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. And watch the Chavez haters obfuscate.
Is that the right word, "obfuscate"?
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I prefer a word that rhymes with obfuscate.
An anti-leftist circle jerk.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. ?
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:04 PM by sicksicksick_N_tired
:rofl:

Oh, on edit, I don't know I'd characterize it that way. Which is worse: corporacrats manipulating/using the public to overthrow an elected official or a leader putting the reigns on the corporacrats? I wouldn't call the responses anti-leftist but more akin to anti-democratic in a back-door way.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chavez waited FIVE YEARS to get even?
I am so impressed.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. No FAIR! We want to believe CNN, AP, and the WaPo!
We want to believe the same fucking bastards who lied us into war! We're stupid America! More Kool Aid for me!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. aka, water carriers for BushCo! Chavez is a dictator
and I'm the Queen of England -- oops! :blush:
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. If they were complicit in the coup
I have no objection to them losng their license.

I do not like, however, that the government took over the station. Why not sell it to another interest? Auction it off. Why does the government need to control another station?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. They are turning it into a public access station
presumably to let independent voices have access to the airwaves, instead of being dominated and controlled by certain powerful groups who own the media there.

Whether or not this station acts independently for the good of the public remains to be seen.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. That's the question the Chavez criticizers are bringing up.
Is the public access channel open to all who can produce programs and specials to fill the airwaves? Or is it only open to Chavistas? Here, time will tell.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. That's the issue these Chavez threads should be focused on.
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:09 PM by killbotfactory
Not pretending some horrible and corrupt TV station getting refused a new license to public broadcast is the death knell of press freedom in Venezuela.

IMO of course.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. and there are already
government-run stations.

I think independent media are important to a democratic society. This take-over doesn't sit well with me.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. The last paragraph says it all
It's good to finally read something about this much misunderstood issue that is written by a group that knows what they're talking about.

Thanks for posting.

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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. The US media would just as resoundingly condemn any other instance of censorship ...
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:00 PM by Jim__
... wouldn't it.

I mean, if Iraqi TV were taken off the air, the American press would be screaming, wouldn't it? If the iraqi government forced Iraqi TV to not broadcas cetain stories, the American media would be screaming, wouldn't it? If Iraq banned foreign stations from broadcasting in Iraq, the American media woudl be screaming, wouldn't it?

Because Iraqi TV had kept portraying Saddam and the Baath party as heroes of the middle east and was portraying the United States along with Bush as the Omen. The Army forced Iraqi TV to stop these broadcasts of the Baath party. It was even rumored that Uday made the channel air Saddamist songs for every 20 minutes of every hour of the day thus resulting 8 hours of the days broadcast being Saddamist songs. Since the channel failed to cooperate with the US Army, the Army had no choice but to bomb it off Air.

The last 5 minutes of Iraqi TV was started with an unidentified Baath party representative/reporter who was giving a speech outside of Saddam's Radwaniyah palace. Then it showed a group of people parading and celebrating Saddam and the Baath party for protecting of Iraq. After 2 minutes of parading the screen suddenly blacks out giving the fact that the station was bombed off. The 30-year channel of Saddam And Uday had officially ended. (more)


The government has previously complained about channels it says are fomenting sectarian conflict. It bans pan-Arab news station Al Jazeera and forced its main rival, Al-Arabiya, to shut its Baghdad bureau for a month in September.(more)


Last night a commentator on Tucker said that both Peru and, I believe, Uruguay had each recently shut TV stations.

I think we should be outraged by suppression of news. But, we should be outraged by all suppression of news, not just when Hugo Chavez does it.



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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. Peru and Uraguay aren't sitting on huge amounts of oil
so mums the word!
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
75. I was unable to find any info on the stations in Peru or Uruguay.
Does anyone have it?
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. I don't think it's right to indict a network...
If individuals broke the law, they should be charged. No one has been.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Yep. The government should have proceeded as this one would:
Throw 'em in jail ask questions later because they are guilty of treason (e.g. conspiring to overthrow the government).
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. I see FAIR and Mr. McElwee make no mention of the government take over.
Here's Mr. McElwee in his oroginal article.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/23/1405/

"If RCTV were the only major source of opposition to the government, the loss of its voice would be troubling. It would also be disturbing if the RCTV case forced others to tone down legitimate opposition. But Greg Wilpert, a sociologist living in Venezuela, declares, “It is the height of absurdity to say that there’s a lack of freedom of press in Venezuela.”

Of the top four private TV stations, three air mostly entertainment and one, Globovisión, is a 24-hours news channel. On Globovisión, Wilpert says, “the opposition is very present. They pretty much dominate it. And in the others, they certainly are very present in the news segments.”

I wonder what he (or FAIR for that matter) thinks of Chavez's threats against Globovision now.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Um, because it hasn't happened?
Globovision is being put on notice. If it stays away from promoting violent uprisings against the democratically elected government or calling for the assassination of the head of state, it should be just fine.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. "Globovision is being put on notice." Yeah that's the problem
"If it stays away from promoting violent uprisings against the democratically elected government or calling for the assassination of the head of state, it should be just fine."

You mean this?

"Communications Minister Willian Lara presented a case to the state prosector's office saying experts hired by the ministry had found that opposition broadcaster Globovision was inciting assassination attempts on Mr. Chavez.

As evidence, he cited Globovision showing footage of an assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II in 1981 accompanied by the song "This Does Not Stop Here," sung by Ruben Blades, now Panama's minister of tourism.

"The conclusion of the specialists ... is that (in this segment) they are inciting the assassination of the president of Venezuela," Mr. Lara told reporters at the prosecutor's office."

That is the crux of their case.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Seems kind of weak, doesn't it? We will have to see what happens.
I'm not going to blindly defend Chavez if he goes down the path of authoritarianism, but neither am I going to blindly defend corporate media interests with a demonstrable history of attempting to overthrow the democratically elected government.

I wonder what Globovision was attempting to do when it broadcast that clip?
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. A very similar coup did occur In the US and nothing happened.
"Were a similar event to happen in the U.S., and TV journalists and executives were caught conspiring with coup plotters, it's doubtful they would stay out of jail, let alone be allowed to continue to run television stations, as they have in Venezuela."

Well....Fox noise did just that in 2000. They rallied around bush naming him the president before the votes were all counted in Florida, never showed anything about the caging lists and the fake Florida protests. Seems to me Fox noise was complicit in a coup against President Gore. Then when the black robed junta did there dance and put the seal of approval on the bush coup, they refused to show the protesters at the inaugural and all of the protests against king george since. Yet there is Fox noise still pretending to be a news program.

Bush could never have been pResident of the United States without Fox.

"Moore asserts, in his book, that if FOX News had not called Florida for Bush, Gore would have gone on to win Florida and the election. He would have become the President of the United States."
http://www.buzzflash.com/store/items/353

Perhaps Chavez is just doing what any rational nation would have done.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. OMFG do NOT bring that elephant into this room.
Edited on Wed May-30-07 03:35 PM by sicksicksick_N_tired
Posters may feign.

Seriously, isn't Chavez the perfect scapegoat to distract from what has happened RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S. of A.?????

There has been billions of taxpayer dollars utilized to advance the Bushco government-sponsored propaganda on the war, on Medicare, on the national debt, on every damn thing that burdens the common man, woman and child,...and we're being distracted by Chavez's action in denying a fucking license to a media outlet that cooperated in a coup!!!!

D-A-Y-U-M!!!!!

What happened to an informed 'perspective' for crying out loud!!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
62. Thanks, High Plains. K&R
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
63. doesn't pass the smell test, as some of Chavez's other actions do not. nt
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Depends on who's
doing the smelling.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
67. Good for Chavez..
Edited on Wed May-30-07 04:20 PM by zidzi
Fuck those stations that were calling a coup with the help of bushits.

I'd like to see a station having a life of 5 years after calling for a coup on the chimptard.

There are obviously people who will believe anything the corporatemediawhores in the US tell them about Chavez and "he's a big bad boogie man"..:scared: :scared:

Chavez is interested in his people not the corporations of Venezuela..you know they're out to get him with the fucking bushco's help.

Viva Chavez! Recommend!~
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. With USAID and NED and all their $$$ down there, you know
Democracy will surely be protected. :sarcasm:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
70. The only really fair and democratic way to allot broadcasting frequencies--
--is by lottery. Venezuela doesn't meet that standard, but neither does anybody else.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
76. thank you!
nice to see real reporting for a change.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
77. So in other words...
it's kind of like calling Lincoln a dictator for revoking Virginia's seccession?
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