Richard Perle: We had the very best of intentions

[sabra]

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/richard_perle/2007/05/it_doesnt_matter_how_we_got_he.html



<snip>

After the attacks of 9/11, the dreaded Bush administration asked itself what other act of terror might be in store for us. Little was known about the extent of al-Qaida's ambition, but it was believed that al-Qaida's planning cycle was 18 to 24 months so preparations for further attacks might well already be underway.

...

Saddam Hussein's Iraq topped the list. So the US went to the United Nations to demand, for the umpteenth time, that Saddam account for those WMD that the UN had concluded he once possessed but whose disposition was unknown. (Remember the UN inspectors had been withdrawn, affording Saddam ample opportunity to move and hide anthrax, nerve agent, and the like.)

The UN voted to demand an accounting. At the last minute, Saddam handed over thousands of pages that he claimed was responsive to the UN demand. But there was nothing new in his submission, no real accounting, no evidence of when, where or how his stockpiles had been destroyed. Every intelligence organisation in the world drew what seemed an obvious conclusion: he was hiding WMD. The rest is history. An invasion in which an unspeakably vicious mass murderer was brought down, his regime toppled in 21 days with a small number of casualties.

...

We did not go into Iraq to impose representative government on the Iraqis. We went there to manage a threat to our own safety. But now that we are there we are trying to help an elected government achieve a level of safety for its citizens that will allow to function.

There are people out there who hope we fail. Some of you may even be reading this, and there surely were one or two in the tent in Hay last night. (You know who you are.)

But, the price of failure will be enormous. There will be unimaginable carnage in Iraq, even worse that what we are seeing now. And the terrorists whose attacks we hoped to prevent will be encouraged to believe they will prevail. They will increase their numbers and redouble their effort to obtain WMD. We will block them many times, but with WMD in hand, they need succeed only once.

Does that help Perle sleep at night? :crazy:

[Bluebear]

1. That's rich.

"We had the very best of intentions!!!" :rofl: :rofl:

[htuttle]

2. "Our intentions were so good, we could have paved a road to hell with them..."

But even there, he's full of shit. They went to Iraq with the same motivations as a smash and grab robber.

[SharonAnn]

9. "Magical Thinking" doesn't affect reality. Reality bites, especially if you're unaware of it.

[DemoTex]

17. They DID indeed pave a super-hiway to hell with those "best" intentions.

God, I can hear my grandma's warnings ringing in my ears: "The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions."

[calimary]

65. No shit! Don't you just love this sudden outbreak of altruism from this

schmuck (who someday will have the distinct privilege of traveling on that very road to Hell that all his fabulous, wondrous, generous, kind-hearted, unselfish "good intentions" paved)? He isn't nicknamed "the Prince of Darkness" for nothing.

Yes, of course you guys thought of others, and not just yourselves. You didn't ONCE think of the oil or your greedy hard-on for it. Not once! It was all for the sake of others in your revolving-door justification turntable.

FUCKER.

[ClassWarrior]

3. Doesn't matter if you have the very worst of criminal tactics.

NGU.

[eleny]

4. This guy deserves the Swamp Rat treatment

[Gabi Hayes]

62. he has....wait a minute. I'll find it

[eleny]

63. He captured his lizardly nature

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. The last three paragraphs...

Just proves what a delusional and sociopathic bastard he really is.

[Cha]

42. Let's add

MEGALOMANIAC to pearle's resume.

[bryant69]

6. I believe him, but don't think that exonerates him.

Not that that gives him much salvation; but ideologically motivated foreign policy of the type he advocated can be both sincere and morally reprehensible.


Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bluebear]

7. "I believe him" . . oh, my. nt

[Occulus]

13. All I see is "Ignored"

Confirmation as to why. Thanks, Bluebear :)

[bryant69]

19. Laughs

OK let me break this down for those of you smart enough to follow it.

I believe that Perle and others of his Ilk sincerely believed that if we followed their plans that the world would be a better place. However, dumbasses, I also believe that the plans they enacted have lead to disaster. Someone can sincerely believe in a bad thing. And my assessment is that the Bush administration is a lesson in not letting ideology blind you to reality (well it's a lesson in a lot of things).

Bryant

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[acmavm]

45. That's funny. Letting ideology blind you to reality? Oh Hell's Bells.

Ideology, that's what did it? Not a hankering to get their hands on the oil fields?

Wonder why Cheney went to so much trouble to keep those energy meetings super duper top secret from the people in this country? Meetings with the executives of the oil companies and people like old Kenny Lay.

Ideology. Is that a new way to say criminality?

[bryant69]

46. I apologize for disagreeing with you.

I'm sorry for any undue discomfort I might have caused.

Bryant

[acmavm]

48. You give yourself too much credit.

[bryant69]

59. Given the tenor of your replies I just assumed I had upset you. n/t

[acmavm]

22. Read what I posted down thread. Maybe you'll get a clue.

[Bluebear]

26. No, we're "dumbasses". nt

[acmavm]

31. Whoops! Not 'talking' to you. Talking the the guy who 'believes'

Richard Perle is telling the truth.

Now, that is priceless. Normally people wouldn't admit to something like that.

And why are you being such a jerk?

[Bluebear]

33. Well...

I knew who you were addressing. I suggested that they probably wouldn't listen to your logic because they consider us 'dumbasses'.

And I'm sorry I am being a jerk, I don't like being called stupid by a poster because my point of view is different from his.

[acmavm]

34. I thought you thought I was calling you a dumbass. Although I didn't know

why.

And if someone called you a dumbass, I say be as jerky as you can.

[Bluebear]

36. I know you know that I know that!

LMAO!

And here's the post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1006015&mesg_id=1006120

[gravity]

39. Most people believe they are acting with good intentions

they can just have bad values.

[endarkenment]

44. And you know this how?

How do you know that most people believe this?


And related to that, what difference does it make what 'most people believe'? How does that alter what actually happened?

[gravity]

49. Their actions are what matters in the end

but it doesn't mean that they are inherently evil, they are just misguided.

Neoconservatives believed that they were going to bring democracy to Iraq. The idea itself isn't bad, it would be nice if democracy flourished in the middle east. Of course they basically just made Iraq into an even bigger mess, but my point was that they thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

[endarkenment]

70. "Neoconservatives believed that they were going to bring democracy to Iraq"

No, they said that they believed this. That was pablum they fed to you and me about their motives. Their motives are much more clearly stated in the PNAC documents. Their intentions were to establish an american hegemony over the planet. In addition when they say 'democracy' they actually do not mean popular representative government, they mean economic neo-liberalism and a representative form of government controlled by and run for the benefit of the elites.

[gravity]

71. Regardless

They thought they were doing the best thing for the world at the time. They viewed America as a positive force in the world, and believed that an American hegemony was best for the world and our country.

[endarkenment]

72. I'll go with Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Pol Pot for why that argument

is pathetic. All of these folks stated their equivalent beliefs that they were 'doing the best thing for the world'. This is always the case with fanatics. Accepting their word for their good intentions is ridiculous.

[gravity]

74. They acted with good intentions too

It doesn't mean what they are doing is good or right. Not everyone views the world through the same lens as you.

[endarkenment]

75. I rest my case. nt.

[KittyWampus]

50. Apparently you haven't actually read any books/articles about the core NeoConservatives. They were

Trotskyists. Indeed, they are idealouges driven by a particular vision.

[bryant69]

57. Thank you n/t

[Bluebear]

58. "We went there to manage a threat to our own safety." How does that fit into their "vision"?

[Schema Thing]

67. eh?

[endarkenment]

69. and that somehow equates to "the very best of intentions:?

I am very aware of the long march of the neocons from left to right. One common denominator has been their consistent view that they are the annointed elites, the chosen ones to guide us in troubled times, but to call that the very best of intentions is idiocy.

[Spazito]

73. No surprise there n/t

Hmmm, when can we expect a poll on this? Soon, no doubt, lol.

[CJCRANE]

8. There were and are *NO* WMD in Iraq!

Terrorists could potentially obtain WMD in the ex-Soviet states or Pakistan or North Korea or anywhere else EXCEPT Iraq!

[wtmusic]

10. He's looking more and more like Hermann Goering nt

[Fridays Child]

11. I'm not interested in your intentions and your actions have already resulted in...

...catastrophic failure. We need to stop participating in the spilling of American and Iraqi blood, NOW.

[sakabatou]

12. O RLY?

[tabasco]

14. I don't consider corporate profits and US hegemony to be best intentions.

War criminals think differently than I do though.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

15. "with WMD in hand, they need succeed only once"

According to Perle, "the terrorists whose attacks we hoped to prevent will be encouraged to believe they will prevail" and that they only need one WMD and use it one time to completely destroy us? I don't get it. It would be of course tragic to see any loss of life through even one usage of a WMD anywhere. But does Perle honestly think that the terrorists could wipe out the West with just one WMD? The terrorists can never ultimately win, even with WMD (which I hope they never get).

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Richard, Richard, you should have known

the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions

[ComerPerro]

18. well, to be fair, they were motivated by greed, power and profit. Which, to a conservative,

is the "best of intentions"

[TwilightGardener]

20. So the whole "democracy" thing in Iraq, that was a "while we're at it"

sort of project? We figured that out by the way it was so very well-planned...(not)

[acmavm]

21. A litte background on Mr. Good Intentions:

Lunch With the Chairman
Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?
by Seymour M. Hersh


<snip>
At the peak of his deal-making activities, in the nineteen-seventies, the Saudi-born businessman Adnan Khashoggi brokered billions of dollars in arms and aircraft sales for the Saudi royal family, earning hundreds of millions in commissions and fees. Though never convicted of wrongdoing, he was repeatedly involved in disputes with federal prosecutors and with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and in recent years he has been in litigation in Thailand and Los Angeles, among other places, concerning allegations of stock manipulation and fraud. During the Reagan Administration, Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North, in the White House, and the mullahs in Iran in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi subsequently claimed that he lost ten million dollars that he had put up to obtain embargoed weapons for Iran which were to be bartered (with Presidential approval) for American hostages. The scandals of those times seemed to feed off each other: a congressional investigation revealed that Khashoggi had borrowed much of the money for the weapons from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (B.C.C.I.), whose collapse, in 1991, defrauded thousands of depositors and led to years of inquiry and litigation.

Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with Iraq.

The Defense Policy Board is a Defense Department advisory group composed primarily of highly respected former government officials, retired military officers, and academics. Its members, who serve without pay, include former national-security advisers, Secretaries of Defense, and heads of the C.I.A. The board meets several times a year at the Pentagon to review and assess the country’s strategic defense policies.

Perle is also a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme Partners L.P., which was registered in November, 2001, in Delaware. Trireme’s main business, according to a two-page letter that one of its representatives sent to Khashoggi last November, is to invest in companies dealing in technology, goods, and services that are of value to homeland security and defense. The letter argued that the fear of terrorism would increase the demand for such products in Europe and in countries like Saudi Arabia and Singapore.

<snip>

Four members of the Defense Policy Board told me that the board, which met most recently on February 27th and 28th, had not been informed of Perle’s involvement in Trireme. One board member, upon being told of Trireme and Perle’s meeting with Khashoggi, exclaimed, “Oh, get out of here. He’s the chairman! If you had a story about me setting up a company for homeland security, and I’ve put people on the board with whom I’m doing that business, I’d be had”—a reference to Gerald Hillman, who had almost no senior policy or military experience in government before being offered a post on the policy board. “Seems to me this is at the edge of or off the ethical charts. I think it would stink to high heaven.”

<snip>

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/03/17/030317fa_fact
_______________________________________________________________

Put Up or Shut Up, Richard Perle
I double-dare him to sue Seymour Hersh.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Thursday, March 13, 2003, at 6:38 PM ET
"I'm gonna punch you in the nose" is a serious threat. "I'm gonna punch you in the nose tomorrow … or the day after" carries much less urgency. But the stipulative warning "I'm gonna punch you in the nose next week in England, where I'm looking to hire a professional nose-puncher to inflict the punishment" is the sort of statement only a grandstanding pantywaist would make.

A grandstanding pantywaist like Richard N. Perle.

Perle threatened yesterday to sue investigative reporter Seymour M. Hersh for libel—specifically, for things Hersh wrote about him in this week's New Yorker. The article examines the potential conflict of interest posed by Perle's dual roles as official Bush adviser (in the form of non-paid chair of the Defense Policy Board) and as managing partner at Trireme Partners, a venture capital firm. Trireme appears to invest in businesses that deal in enterprises "that are of value to homeland security and defense," according to Hersh's piece. As a special government employee, Perle is subject to a federal Code of Conduct, Hersh writes, and "hose rules bar a special employee from participating in an official capacity in any matter in which he has a financial interest."

The article doesn't accuse Perle of breaking any laws, but it explores the unseemly nature of advocating a war on Iraq while engaged in a business that could financially benefit from such a war.


http://www.slate.com/id/2080100/

___________________________________________

JAMES O. GOLDSBOROUGH
An unsavory character on Bush team

THE SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE

September 13, 2004

Richard Perle, a foreign policy guru who has oozed his way through Republican administrations for two decades making a fortune as he went, has met his match in Conrad Black, the former head of Hollinger International, the U.S.-based newspaper conglomerate. Black stepped down as Hollinger CEO after being accused by shareholders of being a crook.
As Black goes down, Perle, who worked for the Bush administration and deserves as much credit for the Iraq war as anyone, is going with him. A special committee investigating Hollinger's financial losses accuses both men of corruption.

Perle is an important figure for he stands at the nexus of power and money. More than most, he has advocated policies that would make him money.

Perle, along with Henry Kissinger, serves on the Hollinger board of directors, as well as on the board of the Jerusalem Post, part of Black's newspaper empire. The Hollinger committee accuses Perle of "flagrant abdication of duty" and of "putting his own interests above those of Hollinger's shareholders," and called on him to return $5.4 million in pay. It wants $200 million back from Black.

Perle, who served as chairman of the Bush administration's Defense Policy Board until being forced out in May because of other conflicts of interest, initially defended Black against the charges brought by the shareholders. Now, however, from his summer home in the South of France, Perle says Black "misled" him.

Black, in turn, accuses Perle of "nest-feathering, dissembling and obfuscation."


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040913/news_mz1e13golds.html

When Conrad Black thinks you're a liar with sticky fingers, well, then you most likely ARE a liar with sticky fingers. It takes one to know one and Conrad is a pistol.

[spanone]

23. Excuse me while I vomit.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: v

[EFerrari]

24. OMFG!

I don't whether to laugh or cry. :wow:

[Rob H.]

27. This and his so-called "documentary" (read: infomercial) on PBS

are all the proof necessary to conclude that Richard Perle is OUT OF HIS FUCKING MIND.

"...(T)he Guardian readers in attendance (I didn't see a single copy of the Telegraph, no sign of the Sun, not even an FT) remain largely unconvinced."

No shit, dumbass. They remain unconvinced because they read The Guardian!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

28. YOU BASTARD!!! YOU ARRANGED PROFITEERING MEETINGS!!!!

You are evil incarnate, Richard.

Nothing you say can remove the fact you pushed this war and arranged meetings, in advance, to profit from the blood and treasure of this nation's children.

Go to hell.

[Arugula Latte]

29. We had the very best intentions -- of enriching Halliburton, Blackwater and the Carlisle Group. nt

[keopeli]

30. Once again, the criminals are trying to frame the story. Sorry, Pearle, the truth is obvious.

Cheney and the oil barons wanted Iraq for many years. They almost had it in 1991, but a reasonable President stood in their way. They knew they would go into Iraq and were looking for an excuse.

To believe Pearle, you must believe that, when Saddam handed over the documents about WMD in December 2002, all intelligence agents throughout the world thought he was lying. But, this can not be true.

The UN inspectors said that the documents were not specific enough and that visual inspections would be necessary. Many other nations specifically said that the documents could not be 100% conclusive and required physical verification. Just days before the Iraq War started, most world leaders were calling for Bush to WAIT 4 MONTHS to let the inspectors finish and reach a conclusion about the WMD.

Wait 4 months. That's all we needed to do. But we didn't.

No, I'm afraid you're wrong, Pearle. Most intelligence agencies in the world disagreed with your finding and called for 4 more months of inspections to verify the WMD were gone (which they were). There was no evidence whatsoever that Saddam had WMDs, only phony stories and planted memos.

peace

[Phredicles]

32. There's no such thing as a well-intentioned bombing the shit out of a place;

just an observation.

[gravity]

35. Neo-Conservatism started out with good intentions just like all idealogies

The problem is that their ideals are all fucked up and the power got to their heads.

I mean they really thought they could establish a democracy in Iraq using a small force in a couple of months.

[prole_for_peace]

37. i call BULLSHIT on this.

best of intentions my ass. kinda like the us cavalry and the native americans right?

[lovuian]

38. Despite the power riches and all the military might

the Master plan didn't work

[Cha]

40. More pearles of wisdom..

pearle meet ROAD PAVED TO HELL.

[proud patriot]

41. What's that saying about the road to hell?

It being paved with good intentions.

[iamahaingttta]

43. Fuck you, Richard Perle!

(I try to say that at every opportunity!)

You know the problem with people like Richard Perle, may just be that they are total pussies. I don't really believe that, I believe he/they are evil war profiteers, but I may be wrong. Am I wrong? Does he just need a hug? A guy like that may really just be so scared of his own fucking shadow that he sees the bogeyman every time he turns around. He may just be so fucking paranoid that he ASSUMES that everyone is out to get him. (well, actually, they are in his case) A guy like that may just be such a pussy that he gets scared anytime some brown person says BOOOO! Is that what it is? Are Bush and Cheney really just fraidy-cats, and the macho tough boy thing is just an act?

Naaa... they're evil and need to be treated as such!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. "Any excuse will serve a tyrant." Aesop - Attacking bogeymen is a favorite.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

[Swamp Rat]

51. LIAR!

[RobertSeattle]

52. The NeoCon "get out of guilt card"

[Uncle Joe]

53. Isn't that what they pave the road to hell with? n/t

[Terri S]

54. Why does anyone listen to this bastard?

Why does he get any air time? The same with DeLay. Why are these people talked to at all. They should be shunned completely. What he, or DeLay, or Tenet or any of them have to say is clearly ... you know damn well what it is. They should have been thrown in jail long ago, let alone given a public forum.

[rasputin1952]

55. From his POV, Genghis Khan had the best of intentions as

well. Like bush, Genghis had some success in pushing his intentions on others as well...those that were he recipients of those intentions however certainly wondered if they were the "best" for them...:(

[Gregorian]

56. Needing a new Pearl Harbor is not the best in intentions.

One way or another you will pay. God knows we already have.

The irony factor is so great here. Guys running around with nukes and cash, crying about that potential terrorist attack. I still don't consider 9/11 to be a terrorist attack until I see a complete review of the facts. Something tells me we were duped by the same guy pictured here.

[LSK]

60. FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY,

FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY, FEAR, REWRITE HISTORY,

[The Backlash Cometh]

61. To quote the free mason from the movie, National Treasure,

"Someone's got to go to jail."

If the general consensus amongst our pillars of the community is that there was no crime committed in the last seven years, then I say, open up your prisons and allow men who are serving time for lesser offenses go free.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

64. We need to see Richard "Good Intentions" Perle fight for the middleweight

championship belt againt Jermain "Bad Intentions" Taylor. It's the perfect match-up for a pay-per-view extravaganza. 12 rounds of boxing, no throwing in the towel, no three knock-down rule, you can only leave the ring if you get knocked unconscious to a medical certainty.

[Pachamama]

66. Didn't some of the Nazi's at the Nuremberg Trials say the same thing???

:puke:

May Richard Perle and the rest of the Neo-cons see the Hague someday....

[jazzjunkysue]

68. "I'm sorry my sister has a bruise, but my decision to hit her was for her own good."

"Honest, it was."

[Tatiana]

76. I guess his conscience is bothering him now.

FWIW, I hope he rots in purgatory. The blood of thousands of Iraqi civilians, Americans, and British are on his hands.

There is no excuse for our invasion of Iraq. There is no justification for the continued occupation of that nation. Anyone thinking otherwise lacks any sense of morality.