I'm unable to comprehend the "Cindy" fiasco.

[matcom]

For the record, I have never met Cindy but have spoken to her on the phone. She was lovely to me.

But...

I have never been a mother.

I have never had a son go to war.

I have never lost a son to a war.

I have never launched a global Peace Movement (unfortunately).

I have never had the courage to do any of the above (excepting the mothering part as I have one too MANY parts).

I simply do not understand any of this.

I am going to eat dinner and kiss my wife and relax.

I.....

[MichiganVote]

1. Yeah, I'm all about live and let live....enough death...enough I say!

[trumad]

2. What I comprehend is that DU is inundated by trolls.

[tkmorris]

10. Exactly so

We need an exterminator in here.

[Forkboy]

31. Big time

[FreeMeFromInsanity]

35. Do the trolls have control of this forum?

Another member posted... Cindy is questioning the official 9-11 story and what do you know that thread is locked and moved to the Sept. 11 board? Why is this off limits on the GD board?

[WI_DEM]

3. She's a fricken' hero in my book by giving a face to the anti-war movement

I applaud her and don't blame her for taking a break. My guess is that she will be back.

[uppityperson]

4. Indeed.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

5. If you have the capacity to appreciate her,...that's enough. Those who can not,...

,...find gratitude within themselves for this woman's sacrifices, I leave them to themselves, without comment.

[Bluebear]

6. You said it. nt

[Parche]

7. Cindy IS A Hero

She has tried to fight the broken system, I know she will never give up, but sometimes
you cant get through to people, they have to 'experience' things on their own.

She is not quitting, she just wont be in the spotlight anymore.....


Bravo Cindy for all you have done :toast:

[bobbolink]

8. It's about being embarrassed that she was treated on DU as many others have been.

It's been fine for many of us to be bad-mouthed, called names, and be the target of verbal violence. That's been OK'd and tolerated.

But when it happens to someone who has the access to make it a national issue and DU is embarrassed, then it becomes a big deal.

Time to look at what we all really consider "peace".

[AZBlue]

22. Sad to say, increasingly,

I don't tell people that I read or post on DU. The level of nastiness is becoming a bit absurd - and it's not "just the primary season." That excuse doesn't wash with me.

Edited to add:

...and because of this, increasingly I don't even log on anymore.

[bobbolink]

28. I'm very sorry..... we're told that it doesn't matter that we lose good people, because

there are more "good people" who come along.

That is just so sad to me, and so telling.

Yet, what happens is that when the good people, like you, leave, increasingly the balance is shifted more and more towards the "nastiness".

I would think that would be obvious by now.

Unfortunately, it seems to be overlooked.

I'm really sorry that you have been "nastied" out. It's just wrong.

:(

[Bake]

9. It's really simple, matcom.

A vocal contingent of DU elevated Cheehan to "sacred cow" status and said that nobody else's opinion mattered, unless YOU OR I had lost a child to the Iraq war. Ergo, no criticism of Sheehan's tactics was valid. Even when she went beyond her original message to do things like, e.g., meeting with Chavez (another "sacred cow"), disrupting a Dem presser last fall that didn't address the war issue, etc. No criticism, no other opinions allowed.

Sacred cows are meant to be skewered, regardless of ideology. In other words, DU did it to her in the guise of defending her. In a democracy, EVERYONE'S opinion matters. But then, a lot of DUers know nothing about democracy.

Bake

[Bluebear]

11. Really? I thought it was about people calling her an attention whore.

The events of the last week had little to do with her tactics about disrupting the presser, etc., rather the lengths people went to to indeed skewer and slaughter the sacred cow, as if nothing she did meant anything, as if she had not suffered any loss whatsover.

[Bake]

17. I suspect the "attention whore" comments flew when she got "off-message"

And presumed to speak for all progressives everywhere, on every issue -- i.e., meeting with Chavez, disrupting the Dem presser, etc.

And for the record, I did not call her such, nor attack her personally. I questioned her actions/tactics as to certain issues OTHER than the war.

"We The People," indeed.

Bake

[Bluebear]

18. I appreciate that

I certainly do not include you in the fiasco.

I first became aware of it when a young anime fan posted the famous "attention whore" comment, then people piled on with the fact that she is old news, nothing special, etc.

Just her status as a mother who lost her child to this war deserves more respect than those hurtful words.

[eggman67]

14. If I could rec a post it would be this one

Well said dbaker.

[Lance_Boyle]

30. ahem

:thumbsup:

[magellan]

12. It's not about the insults so very much

...as it is about losing faith in politics and politicians, and being attacked for daring to speak it aloud.

[bobbolink]

16. It's not about the insults?

So, insults are fine, now?

How does that advance the cause of peace?

[magellan]

24. You took what I said out of context

If you read Cindy's letter and heard her interview on DN!, then you know the reason she's pulled back is not because of the insults so much as a loss of faith in politics and politicians.

[idgiehkt]

26. I just wonder about this

I don't have a yea or nay opinion because I think she needs to do what is best for herself...I'm just profoundly curious about the circumstances of the article on Kos. Who posted that headline, who made that the main thrust of the article...it just looks intentional to me that someone was trying to f*ck DU. If not Cindy then was it Kos? I've come in on the tail end of the drama, but the same story with DU being indicted for this is all over the internet. Was DU because of it's name a convenient way to demonstrate that dems aren't united, or was it somehow an act of revenge for the slurs. It was an effective one if so.

[magellan]

27. You mean Cindy's KOS diary for May 28th?

She wrote all that and I believe from her interview on DN! that the title, "Good Riddance Attention Whore", was her idea as well.

But the insults aren't really the main thrust of what she wrote. At least not as I read it and heard it from Cindy on DN! yesterday. It was the "STFU" sentiment behind those insults. For some, criticism of the Dems for any reason is verboten. We've seen that here, especially since the war funding passage last week. And DU is the main meeting place for Dems on the internet, so Cindy singling it out as representative of the problem is understandable.

This paragraph of hers says it best, I think:

However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong."

[bobbolink]

29. I just read your words. There weren't many words, so it's hard to take them "out of context",

but I'll take your word for it that you had something else in mind.

I, also, read the whole article from Cindy, and saw her on DemNow!, and it's clear that she was burned out-- in large part from attacks.

I know it isn't popular to look at that, but it's at our own peril that we ignore what we do to others with the harshness (and nastiness, as another poster wrote).

Cindy gave us a wake-up call.

PEACE demands that we take it seriously.

[magellan]

32. I'm not trying to minimize what was done to her

I just don't think it was the reason she stepped back now. The insults came from those who continually excuse Democratic Congressional failures, like the capitulation to Bush** on the war funding last week. Those failures, and the division they create within the party between those who think the leadership are betraying us and those who think doing they're doing their best and Cindy shouldn't criticize them, are keeping her from reaching her objective of bringing the troops home.

That's all I was trying to say.

[bobbolink]

33. I will respectfully disagree.

As a woman who's had her share of slings and arrows, I know just how much it hurts.

I also see all the advice to "grow a skin", "ignore it", etc., and that is so ugly when it comes to verbal abuse, which is what this was.

She was hurt, and we need to pay attention to that.

I will agree from whence the words came--that division between DLC and liberal Dems was predicted here back in '03 and ignored, and it's not going away. It will build from here.

But, the ugly words... nope, they cause damage, and result in the loss of good people.

I will repeat again what I've said elsewhere... I don't think there was real sorrow about how she was hurt here. I think there was embarrassment that a national figure who could make an issue of it and bring it to national attention, did so, about something that happens to women here on DU all the time.

AGAIN... we ignore that at our own peril.

It's time to look deeply at what PEACEMAKING is.

It isn't hurting people, and it isn't sweeping that pain under a rug.

Thank you for your response. I do appreciate it.

Peace to all... hopefully, in our lifetimes.

I'm going to edit and add something that I notice a lot... you said that in your opinion I had taken your words "out of context". I replied that there were so few words, that it was all the context, but that I would take your word for it that it wasn't what you had in mind.

Here is my observation... sometimes on the 'net, people work so hard to be so brief, that meaning gets obscured. Sometimes it takes more words to get the meaning clear. It's really OK to use more words.. we aren't charged per word. :hi:

[magellan]

34. Bobbolink, I hope you will understand

I was by no means trying to sweep the pain Cindy felt at those insults under the rug. Due to my own lifelong experiences, it's the exact opposite of my nature to trivialize another's pain. There's no doubt in my mind that the growing number of attacks Cindy endured from those who had previously aligned themselves with her cause hurt her far more terribly than the slings and arrows directed at her from our natural enemies on the Right. I certainly understand how intensifying abuse from her own friends and supporters would knock her for a loop. We've felt it here too, though not anywhere near the level Cindy has suffered by having such a high public profile and personal contact with so many.

I'll concede that I may be over-analyzing the matter, separating two threads that are actually one. The insults spring from the split in the party; they're part and parcel of each other. The cumulative effect brought Cindy to her decision.

But, respectfully, I still believe the thrust of her letter wasn't to say "I can't take the insults anymore, I quit", but "These insults represent a side of the Democratic party that have the upper hand in Congress and stand in the way of my efforts to bring the troops home. I need some time to rest, recover and retool."

BTW, I got this into my head after seeing Amy Goodman interview her earlier in the week. I was really very worried about Cindy's health -- physical and emotional -- until I saw that interview. But apart from seeming a bit tired, which might have been from jet lag for all I know (I believe she had returned from Ireland to Sacramento only the day before), she sounded as strong and resolved as ever.

I think her pointing to DU was a very clever way to bring attention to the split in the party that has plagued her so. As I said somewhere else on this thread, DU is the biggest Dem/liberal meeting up place on the internet. If you aren't down with Democratic ideals, you don't post here (or not for long). And the division between the progressives and the DLC Dems is on display for all to see. By drawing attention to the insults against her on DU, Cindy also turned a spotlight on the Democratic Party and the internal struggle that threatens to rip it apart.

Okay, I've written enough, I hope it makes sense. Some days it's a struggle to accurately describe what I mean; other days I think I'm being clear, and I find I'm the only one who thinks so! If we could sit down and chat over a cup of coffee we'd probably realize we're at cross purposes. But I've taken on board your perspective, and understand it, and appreciate it.

:)

[bobbolink]

36. Thanks for your understanding. At your suggestion, I will go back and look

at the Cindy interview. I recorded it, but have been too tired to look at it. (Too much mucus on the brain right now... things sometimes don't process so well through the mucus... is that graphic enough?) ~~gigglesnort~~

I still, at this point, see her words as hurt by the comments, but...who knows... that may be from my own vantage point, also. (As you may have seen from that wonderful thread about women, a LOT of us have faced a lot of pain from DU and other political avenues!)

So, I guess only Cindy knows for sure, and that's OK, too. I just have to take issue with the common idea that we have to "toughen up" and take our lumps. I think getting "tough" is precisely what is killing us!

I also agree with you completely about the split between the DLC and the base party! That's been a big issue for so long, and I wish we could just get rid of 'em! The big downfall is the corporations... we certainly don't need a corporate wing of the party!

ooooops, out of time at the library...

Thanks for the conversation, and feel free to flag me down again. :hi: :pals: :hi:

[leftofthedial]

13. She is a great American heroine.

She deserves the respect of all of us.

[Bake]

15. Indeed she does.

But that doesn't mean she's always right. And if you put yourself out front, expect crtiicism when you're wrong.

Bake

[leftofthedial]

25. yeah. Criticism goes with the territory.

Much of the vitriol leveled at her recently though, crossed the "personal" line IMHO.

Lord knows, I get slammed here often enough for criticizing "democrats"--it's like patrolling no-man's land in WWII.

[pnorman]

19. Please see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1007571



pnorman

[Midlodemocrat]

20. I'm a mother. I have a son.

He's alive and playing PS3 right behind me. I choose to believe that Cindy's activism that has elevated the awareness of this illegal war will keep him and others like him from suffering the same fate as Casey.

For that and that alone, I am profoundly grateful to Cindy. She is a hero to me and I will probably never change my mind about that.

[Pale Blue Dot]

21. "I am going to eat dinner and kiss my wife and relax."

I just did the first two, now I need to do the last.

I have been absolutely astonished at the amount of justification going on about this. My ignore list has doubled in the past 36 hours.

I need to step away from DU for a bit before I attack one of these assholes in the same way that Ms. Sheehan was attacked.

[Rex]

23. A lot of projection and a pinch of envy.

Same shit we see from the repukes, just less.