Fitzgerald calling Conyers....come in Conyers...

[Truth2Tell]

Am I the only one who finds it a tad interesting that Patrick Fitzgerald keeps slinging inflammatory new charges at VP Cheney, even as the Libby trial winds down and his investigation is apparently "over"?

Yesterday Dan Fromkin chronicled some of the material references to the VP contained in Fitzgerald's most recent filing to the court in the Libby matter. Keep in mind this filing is meant to be in regards to the LIBBY SENTENCING, not Cheney in any direct way. Yet Fitzy seems to deliberately drop in all kinds of Cheney bombs:

The investigation, Fitzgerald writes, "was necessary to determine whether... any of those who were involved acted at the direction of others. This was particularly important in light of Mr. Libby's statement to the FBI that he may have discussed Ms. Wilson's employment with reporters at the specific direction of the Vice President."

- snip -

"...there was reason to believe that some of the relevant activity may have been coordinated, and where there was an indication from Mr. Libby himself that his disclosures to the press may have been personally sanctioned by the Vice President."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/05/29/BL2007052901024.html

Sooo, I'm wondering if Fitzgerald isn't sending a message to Congress: "Yo.. Look over here! I've got the goods... but you need to ask me for them.... Please.."

[Ghost in the Machine]

1. If he's got the goods, why doesn't he just *GIVE* them to Conyers?

People expected Fitzmas... and got Fizzlemas instead. Merry Fizzlemas!

Too many political "games" being played, and we're the ones paying the price... along with our troops.

PEACE!

Ghost

[Truth2Tell]

2. He's subject to grand jury secrecy laws and court orders

He can't just go around giving out evidence he's collected on people he's investigated but not charged with a crime.

But maybe a Congressional subpoena is a different story...?

[madrchsod]

5. the grand jury can vote to release part or all their records

i do`t think there is enough there for any indictment but there are lines of inquiry that a senate/house investigation can use to open the door. maybe this is what fitz is "hinting" at.

[H2O Man]

20. Could you please

provide documentation for your claim that "the grand jury can vote to release part or all their records"?

Thank you.

[madrchsod]

22. see what you think of rule six....

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/206584.htm#II
206584.htm

THE REQUIREMENT OF SECRECY -- RULE 6(e)

i`m not a lawyer but from what i gather these records are assessable to a government investigation if there can be a link established.
could this be what fitzgerald is implying to the house and senate?

here is another from the grand jury instructions-

"the secrecy obligation not only applies during your service as a grand juror, but afterward, as well. If asked in your capacity as foreperson, you should advise the other grand jurors that they can only be released from their permanent obligation to keep the grand jury’s proceedings secret by order of a federal judge."

http://www.ilnd.uscourts.gov/JURY/Grndjury.htm
Grand Jury Foreman's Handbook

my assertion may have been wrongly worded but after reading the entire rule six and the release by a federal judge i think Fitzgerald waiting for someone to act. bush and his crew has destroyed the integrity of dept of justice and targeted Fitzgerald for dismissal, just by listening to him one can tell he`s pissed off.

thanks for asking

[lonestarnot]

35. Good U.S. Attornies don't get pissed off, just pissed on.

Sometimes. Oh and you didn't ask me but, by "order of a federal judge" appears to be the pertinent part.

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. ok, I can buy that... but still.. a crime is a crime... if he has knowledge

of a crime that has been committed, it's his duty to report it, isn't it?

I'm not trying to be snarky.. I'm really trying to understand this. He said at one point (paraphrasing) "The liars kicked sand in my eyes, blinding the truth from my investigation".... so he got one liar down now.. why stop the investigation??

[Truth2Tell]

10. Lots of times prosecutors and cops collect

enough evidence that they are personally fully convinced of their subject's guilt.

Alas, sometimes that's still not enough to make the type of rock-solid case that would need to be offered up to convict the VP.

I believe that Fitzgerald believes Cheney is a guilty SOB. I believe he has made that clear on a number of occasions. Where the heck do you think those copies of the NYT with Cheney's handwritten notes came from?

[Garbo 2004]

4. Fitz doesn't have the goods, he'd need Libby to flip and he hasn't. n/t

[Truth2Tell]

6. He may have killer circumstantial goods

that wouldn't sustain a criminal charge against the U.S. VP, but which might prove to be "high crime"-worthy in the courts of political and public opinion. And that's where Impeachment lives.

[Ghost in the Machine]

14. Don't you wish he'd sing like Abramoff?

SING, BIRDIE....SING!!

[Truth2Tell]

15. maybe he's just waiting for his e-vite. nt

[Marr]

19. Which is one more reason the Dems should be moving aggressively to impeach.

A president and VP under the threat of impeachment are unlikely to pardon one of their criminal lieutenants- it'd be blatant admission of guilt. A man in Libby's position would be a hell of alot more likely to sing if he couldn't be sure that a pardon awaited him at the end of his legal maneuvering.

[lonestarnot]

36. absofuckinglutely

[Missy Vixen]

7. I'll speak slowly

He needs a SUBPOENA. So far, Chairman Conyers has declined to issue one. He also has to have anything he's testifying about in an open hearing approved by the DoJ. I'm sure it will come as no surprise that the permission for that is running six months or longer at this time.

Patrick Fitzgerald is not the enemy here.

Julie

[Ghost in the Machine]

11. I never said he *was* the enemy. I'm just more than a little disappointed

as are many, many others, that the investigation seems to be winding down with the Libby conviction. With one liar convicted and moved out of the way, wouldn't you think the investigation would be picking up instead of winding down?

[Truth2Tell]

12. Maybe Fitz has run into some sort of legal obsticle

that we are not fully aware of - in relation to his investigation of the VP - that Congress could just maybe sidestep.

[Missy Vixen]

16. He said during the press conference after the Libby verdict that

the investigation was "inactive". He didn't say it was "over". I'm sure he is exponentially more disappointed with the outcome than any of us could ever be. Imagine the frustration of knowing one person is holding up an investigation that consumed two years of your life, along with the lives and careers of scores of others.

>With one liar convicted and moved out of the way, wouldn't you think the investigation would be picking up instead of winding down?<

Please take a look at Patrick Fitzgerald's career in Chicago, namely the Ryan case. I believe 66 different people were indicted, including the former governor of Illinois. He starts at the bottom, and works his way up. In this case, Libby's refusal to flip and start talking is stymying him. We'll see if Scooter is still so -- resistant-- if he's immediately remanded to jail during his sentencing on June 5th.

Julie

[lonestarnot]

37. Slowly didn't help he needs an order of a federal judge for the

GJ to release goods.

[madrchsod]

3. i think he wants

libby to sing for a lighter sentence...
after watching fitzgerald here in illinois i came to the conclusion that one never ever wants to be a "person of interest" in his world. he`d make a very good AG under a democratic president

[NastyRiffraff]

9. He hinted at this strongly when he announced the Libby charges

I can't find the exact wording, but it was something like Congress might want to ask about documentation we have, since Libby's lies meant we couldn't persue certain issues.

[Ghost in the Machine]

13. I remember reading something to that extent also.

It was almost cryptic, wasn't it? If I remember right, he was basically telling Conyers where to look in his indictment of Libby to get something on Shooter and the Chimp. Might be worth going back and looking for the post.

[Truth2Tell]

18. Here's some DU threads on this

Both a WaPo and a Truthout/Leopold article (doesn't mean it's automatically untrue) include bits about Fitz leaving the door open to a congressional request:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=361313

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=358147

And what ever happened with Waxman wanting to meet with Fitz, and pursue this further? Is this true?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=370415

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=371914

[H2O Man]

21. Mr. Fitzgerald

responded to the request that he meet with the House Committee by means of a letter, which explained why he legally cannot. He stated that any information he could provide the Committee is found in the public record of pretrial and trial documents.

Mr. Fitzgerald and his team decided that, without Libby's telling the truth, they did not have enough evidence to prove, in a criminal court, that VP Cheney was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It is fair to say that they believe that there is enough evidence to convict Cheney in a civil court -- and impeachment is a civil trial.

[Truth2Tell]

23. thanks H2O Man!

So he expects that congress would simply cull info from the public trial record? Or that they should?

Or does he expect they will find the information outlined there... but should then pursue their entirely own investigation.....?

Do you know if he could be compelled to testify or to produce unused docs from his own investigation, if he were subpoenaed by Congress?

Have you seen this letter by Fitz? Any link?

[H2O Man]

27. It should be

on his site.

The other possibility, which he can't simply come out and say, is that if congress were to start the one type of hearing where they have their greatest power to compell everyone to produce evidence, a federal judge could open the grand jury files. Mr. Fitzgerald cannot do that. But he is fully aware of how it can be done. And so aren't Reps Conyers, Waxman, and Hinchey.

[Truth2Tell]

28. I can't find any reference to this letter

on Fitzgerald's site or Henry Waxman's.

Waxman's Committee website does have an interesting rundown of their actions on the Plame leak case, but nothing on the Fitzgerald letters:

http://oversight.house.gov/investigations.asp?ID=115

[Truth2Tell]

29. Found an AP article on the letter

Picked up by The Boston Globe and others. Seems to be the only source:

"Fitzgerald not talking about CIA leak"

By Matt Apuzzo, Associated Press Writer March 14, 2007

In a letter to Waxman, Fitzgerald did not refuse to cooperate with the congressional probe but made it clear he had little to say.

"I do not believe it would be appropriate for me to offer opinions, as your letter suggests the committee may seek, about the ultimate responsibility of senior White House officials for the disclosure of Ms. Wilson's identity," Fitzgerald wrote.

- snip -

Fitzgerald said he was prohibited from discussing grand jury testimony and evidence that did not come out at Libby's trial, and he referred Waxman to the volumes of evidence made public during the monthlong trial...

- snip -

A committee official said the Waxman still hopes to meet with Fitzgerald.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/03/14/fitzgerald_not_talking_about_cia_leak/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News

Waxman still hopes to meet with Fitzgerald?

[Missy Vixen]

32. He can't meet with them at all without a SUBPOENA

He also cannot offer his "opinions", which was the word used in the letter.

There's also the tiny little issue of his career. I don't know him. I can't imagine he has much love for the Executive Branch. At the same time, he still has to make a living. Would he be able to do so after his testimony?

Julie
still president for life of the PFEB

[Truth2Tell]

40. the one type of hearing where they have their greatest power

what's that?

[H2O Man]

42. Impeachment

of any official. For example, VP Dick Cheney.

[Princess Turandot]

31. Here you go:

Waxman -> Fitzgerald

http://oversight.house.gov/Documents/20070308134201-02108.pdf

Fitzgerald -> Waxman

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070314180406-55978.pdf

I believe this was the paragraph from the response that excited some interest:

"You may wish to review the substantial information gathered during our investigation,
(especially as it concerned Mr. Libby in particular), which has become a matter of public record as
a result of court proceedings and the tial. Many of the court filings i.e publicly docketed and, of
course, the trial testimony and all trial exhibits as matters of public record."

[Truth2Tell]

33. Thanks Princess!

Well, maybe there is no more Fitzgerald could conceivably add. That would be unfortunate though. Cuz I don't think the public-record information from the Libby trial is quite enough to get this Congress to Impeach the VP. Sad but likely true.

So we need something new... why not subpoena? Nothing to lose.

[H2O Man]

43. There is enough

for congress to investigate VP Cheney's role. Such an investigation can -- and done properly, would -- end up with their getting access to everything Mr. Fitzgerald knows about Cheney's role.

[lonestarnot]

38. Sounds like he might be available after the 6th of June? or after a

waiver of Rule 6(e) protection of the GJ evidence.

[Truth2Tell]

39. So you're saying....

that maybe it's not a subpoena of Fitzgerald that Conyers/Waxman should be pushing...

but an order from a Federal judge waiving the secrecy protection of the Grand Jury evidence?

Go straight to a judge?

[H2O Man]

44. Build a good foundation

before you put a house on it. There are representatives in congress that know how to do that.

[lonestarnot]

46. I'm no lawyer, but I can read.

[lonestarnot]

47. Thanks for posting those letters. I had not seen them.

Very interesting indeed.

[Missy Vixen]

17. The bread crumbs looked like baguettes, didn't they?

"Plllleeeeease. Help me help YOU."

The Congressional investigation would not run into the greymail issues trying the case in court had, because everyone has a security clearance. Just sayin'.

Julie

[hvn_nbr_2]

24. If he wants to get a message to Congress...

he's going to need a stronger 2x4 than, say, an election that changes control of both houses of Congress against all odds, a Cheney approval rating that's lower than the approval rating of a crack-smoking insider-trading murderer who beats his children and has sex with underage priests, and public opinion solidly on one side.

He's going to need something better than not-so-subtle hints. It'll probably take some of that Dr. Doobie's Instant Miracle Grow Spinal Replacement powder. And, even that, he'll have to secretly spike the punch bowl at a beltway cocktail party to get them to take it.

[L. Coyote]

25. Fitzgerald has repeatedly asserted that grand-jury secrecy rules prohibit him

From the article: "Despite all the public interest in the case, Fitzgerald has repeatedly asserted that grand-jury secrecy rules prohibit him from being more forthcoming about either the course of his investigation or any findings beyond those he disclosed to make the case against Libby......."

Does this prohibition extend to Congress? If not, I'd assume Leahy and Conyers already know all.

[Truth2Tell]

26. The prohibition may extend to Congress without a subpoena

Couldn't hurt to try.

[lovuian]

34. Fitzgerald is covering himself and He declined the

invitation to testify before Congress... Maybe he is waiting for Libby's sentencing but if I was Libby's lawyer for my appeal I would be asking about those missing emails

[H2O Man]

45. Right.

It would require congress to do the work that they know is required to go down this path.

[Imagevision]

30. Guess this is why Cheney had the CIA trash ALL visitor records for his home address

[cassiepriam]

41. Fitz knows the truth of what happened. And he is doing what he can within the law.