TinFoilHat Poll: Will George Sieze power before '08?

[Bruce McAuley]

Just a quick poll, and an obviously tin foil hat one at that(I prefer to think of it as Visioning):
Now that George has the power set up in National Security Directive 51 to take total control of the government in a declared "national emergency", will George actually USE it before the next president takes office?
After the Enabling Acts of 1933 were passed in Germany Hitler had complete control of the government, and the Reichstag was ignored.
So, let's see how many REALLY suspicious people there are here, just for fun...

Bruce

[wakeme2008]

1. depends...

IMHO if a Repug wins, he is toast and knows it. If a Dem wins, IMHO I would not put anything past him. :scared:

[liberal N proud]

2. I will put on the tin foil hat and say he will try to do something

I think the plan all along has been to destroy the democracy we thought we all had for over 200 years.
Will he succeed? I pray not!

[SteppingRazor]

3. I voted that he'll leave office peacefully. That said...

If there is an actual national emergency of catastrophic proportions, who's to say what he'll do?

[Bruce McAuley]

5. Doesn't necessarily take an actual catastrophe...

All it REALLY takes is him making the declaration.
Then we are automatically under his thumb.
Who's to say Nay afterward?
You get to go to the camps, comrade, for speaking against the power of the President.
And I guess he must declare the "emergency" over before we get political or legal representation back.
Just saying...

Bruce

[SteppingRazor]

6. That sort of situation, I simply don't see happening.

Bush just says, "OK, now I'm king." And *poof* it happens? He sets up camps for dissenters?

Nah. We're nowhere near that far down the rabbit hole.

[Uben]

4. No

He is soooo ready to get out of the Wh! I don't think he ever really wanted to do it. Let's face it, that job is waaaay over his abilities! And, I think the thought of assassination has scared the shit oout of him since he began. That is why he and Cheney never speak to anyone but hand picked crowds. IMO, his outlook is the sooner the better!

[SomeGuyInEagan]

9. While I am not sure if he would sieze power ...

I agree with your assessment of his desire to be president in the first place.

I believe he was as surprised as anyone ... first to get the nomination and then to be president (note I did not write that he was elected). His backers knew that his best chance to get the nomination was to 1) outspend everybody (by a huge margin) and 2) have W. put on a face of strength and optimism while his backers organized very dirty smear campaigns against any serious contender for the nomination.

He was/is a tool with the right name who was unwilling to question anything his backers did or tell him to do.

As Jim Hightower said, "He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple."

[originalpckelly]

7. Other: Dick Cheney is already a classic "weak-dictator"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictator#Dictators_in_game_theory

[fasttense]

8. It has all been fairly easy for him so far.

He had Fox noise and the dancing supremes hand him the presidency in 2000 and he has slowly been accumulating power since then. He had Rove rig the election for him in 2004 and he has used a lot of the powers he has been able to accumulate. Look how quickly he appointed DAs when he got that non-confirmation adjusted bill through the half awake congress. When he says he is going to do something believe him. When he rigs up an unconstitutional power he uses it. He is the face of corporate America and they need him in the WH to do their bidding. It wont end in 2008. There is still more to steal out of America.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

10. Corporate Interests can co-opt a Dem as well

Maybe not as easily, but it's been done (DLC, New Dems). Why would the elite need to stay behind Mr 28?

[snappyturtle]

11. I just couldn't vote. I don't know what he will do....when he thumps

his chest and says, "I am president" that scares me...he seems very unstable. Why would he erode our civil liberties and boost the authority of the executive branch if he weren't planning on using it?

[Kurovski]

12. As much as I believe they'd like to keep George in...

Madame Kurovska's recent reading reveals that "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

However, EVERY American should be aware of our very own "enabling act" recently signed by President Numbnuts. And on that count I'd like to say "Thanks for nothing, Corporate Media."

Also, "you are worthless baggage to a free nation."

And in parting, "you are diseased shitwads trapped up your own asses."

[Bruce McAuley]

13. That's the ONE reason I see for hope...

That George is SUCH a loser that he's already pre-programmed to FAIL.
Maybe he'll seize power and we'll turn him out immediately in reaction, and what will be seen as a method to take power by the Money people will result in their destruction.
I hope the Madame's reading was specific to George...
Thanks!

Bruce

[siligut]

38. The best laid plans...

The subtleties of this are profound. We have believed that Bush placed in office is the prelude to the Iraq war, all a concert to increase the wealth of a bunch of neo-fascist repigs, yes the American people have been played.

Their success and MSM coup has furthered our concern that this has been a plan that is going to continue to play out. However, we the people are not a static entity, I have spoken with people across the board who recognize what has happened and some with the power to toss a few wrenches. I have hope and it isn’t empty.

[shenmue]

14. How about "He will unleash a wave of killer robots"?

You didn't think of that, now, did you?

:tinfoilhat:

[Kurovski]

19. Hmmm...interesting.

Will they be working in concert with the already commissioned Stepford robots?

[MorningGlow]

15. He'll try; he'll fail

I'm certain of that. He's got it all set up--the directive, the protestors' detention centers (oh, sorry, the "illegal immigrant detention centers" :eyes: )--he even tried to change the law to have the army in charge after a "natural disaster"--whatever happened with that--did it go through? But these guys suck so bad they'll STILL screw it up.

Now the question is, will we ever find out how close we came to martial law and a true dictatorship? Most people won't even notice. Too busy watching American Idol and shit...

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. I like to think he won't but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. n/t

[opihimoimoi]

18. I would think....The Stouffenburg Factor will get him should he try

[CJCRANE]

17. They fixed the election in 2000 and '04.

They didn't steel enough votes in '06 but Bush just ignored the results anyway and pressed ahead with his surge and power-grabbing.

I'm sure the martial law option is on the table.

On edit: in fact my half-joking prediction has always been that Bush is aiming for a 0% approval rating and 100% power. The two scenarios seem to be gradually converging.

[roamer65]

20. Nah. He'll make tracks for the ranch in Paraguay real quick.

[onenote]

21. I guess you weren't aware that your interpretation of Directive 51 has been debunked.

No less than the policy director of the ACLU has reviewed it and indicated that its not a matter of concern.

I wish people would actually read it before deciding the sky is falling.

[Kurovski]

22. That's an excellent dip into the reality pool.

The real problem is the Bush Administration itself. They pretty much abuse everything for self-serving purposes.

More about Michael German:

"Intelligence Expert and Former FBI Agent Joins ACLU As National Security Counsel"
http://www.aclu.org/about/staff/27003prs20061005.html

[Bruce McAuley]

23. Well, it IS a TinFoilHat poll, after all...

Look.
If a "disaster" occurs, people expect him to step in and "keep order".
Legal quibbling now about the provisions will prove fruitless once it's enacted.
If not, what's the real purpose of the Directive?
You remember Bush's statement about Dictators...just a small jump from the "Decider".
Can the ACLU prevent it from happening BEFORE it happens?
Just wondering here...

Bruce

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

47. Sooo,...you read it? Have you read other reviews,...

,...like the ones I posted FOR YOU? I acknowledge your lack of concern and also your disdain for those who express concern.

Personally, I prefer NO president hold the increased powers contained in that dictate, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES because I don't want to allow the potential for abuse. Moreover, I believe the potential for abuse is greater now than ever.

Of course, that's JUST MY OPINION, as worthy as is yours, I believe.

[Midlodemocrat]

24. Not to hijack yout thread, but you were right. Those WERE the best truffles I ever had.

:hi:

Thanks!

And, PM me when you've got some more to sell. They were a huge hit here!

[Bruce McAuley]

29. Too hot for chocolates, gotta stick with conspiracies, LOL

PM me again around Sept or Oct when it gets cold, that brings out the chocolate urge again in people. Best selection is November, we shut down production a week or so before Christmas, we're not really into it for the money, just the quality.
:hi:

Bruce

[Prophet 451]

25. Maybe

The problem here is that you're asking us to guess what the situation will be like in 2009. I have no doubt that Bush would like to appoint himself dictator but anything could happen in the meantime. He could die, decide that he couldn't get away with it, grow a conscience (nah, no chance of that), anything.

The other problem is that no amount of evidence will ever be enough for teh serial doubters. For a combination of reasons (most notably, the demonisation of conspiracy theory and the "it couldn't happen here" mindset), an awful lot of people, even here, refuse to see how bad Bush really is. Apparently, the ACLU has checked this out and says it's nothing to worry about, not unusual. And if it was any other president, I'd leave it there but for this president and this administration with their proven record of breaking the law if they can find a pretext (however flimsy) for it, I'm not happy to leave it at that.

Bush would like to be a dictator. He's said or implied that numerous times. He's broken the law at every turn, violated international law, , wiretapped most of the country it seems, legalised torture for Satan's sake! Cheney has been claiming for a while now that the office of VP is unaccountable to basically anyone. Both have publically delcared, even boasted, of their intention to ignore both the law and Congress and yet, so many, even here, are so sure that he will just peacefully walk out of office when his time is up. WAKE UP! Bush isn't Richard Nixon. Bad as Nixon was, he had at least some respect for the rule of law. He's not a Tony Blair either. Bush is a Mosley, a Mussolini in a nice suit and perhaps, in time, a Hitler. No, he may not declare himself dictator in 2008/9 but he could and you're deluding yourself if you believe he hasn't thought about it.

They've been accusing us of being Henny Penny so long (sometimes with good reason) that they haven't noticed that this time, the sky really is bloody falling.

[NYCGirl]

26. Nixon had very little respect for the rule of law when it came to the presidency:

http://www.landmarkcases.org/nixon/nixonview.html

FROST: So what in a sense, you're saying is that there are certain situations, and the Huston Plan or that part of it was one of them, where the president can decide that it's in the best interests of the nation or something, and do something illegal.

NIXON: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.

FROST: By definition.

NIXON: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position.

[Prophet 451]

28. Badly stated on my part

What I mean is that the very fact that Nixon went to such lengths to cover up his criminal activity shows a certain amount of respect (or fear but it amounts to the same thing) for the law. Had he been as casual about teh law as Chimpy, he would have done what Chimpy has done and effectively said "what are you going to do about it?".

But I'm working on a rant about this right now.

[DemGa]

27. I say no and here's why

These continuity plans have been developed by administrations since Eisenhower; the next administration will develop its own too.

But my reason is, it just makes perfect sense that little boots would place himself at the head of his own contingency plan.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Polls Like This Never Cease To Embarrass Me.

Not sure what else to say...

[Kurovski]

36. Embarrassed? You?

That's Almost As Humorous As The Poll Itself. :-)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. I'm Embarrassed Often By Some Sentiments Here, Which Is The Driving Force Behind My Strong

oppostion at times.

There are some positions I'll see here sometimes that just make us look completely deluded, out of touch and not worthy of being taken seriously by others. When I see them here on the website I love, I feel embarrassed for our community because of my belief we are better than such things.

This poll should easily be 90% no if our entire community saw it and chose to respond to it. Unfortunately that is never the case, so the results turn out to be amazingly inaccurate and unrepresentative of how our community truly feels. The sad part is though that outsiders may not readily understand that and instead think that it is representative of our whole community, which then absolutely does embarrass me.

[Kurovski]

41. I saw the OP more as a nervous and self-aware joke,

and the subsequent discussion has served to put the matter into better perspective.

Some got to voice their concerns.

But generally displaying a good-humored, self-deprecating tone, imo.

We are as we are, no better and no worse. Putting on a show for the world in our Sunday best, or behaving as if we're out to make a sale by adjusting to some particular audience is not an actual goal of DU, if I recall correctly.

We're mostly all Americans here. With a few extremist right-wing exceptions, I'm not sure of who the "outsiders" are. We even have members from other countries.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. It's The Results Of The Poll, Not The Poll Itself.

You say we are what we are, yet that shows a misunderstanding of my point. My point was that the results DO NOT reflect what we are, but instead only the more extremist side of what we are since not everybody is represented nor would it be expected that they would be. However, outsiders may not know that.

So what embarrasses me is not what we are, but what polls like this with skewed and inaccurate results make us appear to be. There's a difference.

And you need to broaden your mind significantly if you can't think of more outsiders than extremist right wingers. Do you have any idea how many lurkers are here? Any idea how many new to DU people might stumble upon our site each day? How many everyday Americans we'd like to attract that may come here and browse?

Those are who I reference. Their first thread browsing might be one that appears to show that half of our community would actually think that bush is going to force us to keep him in power; which I find to be deluded and unrealistic, and would be embarrassing in my opinion for them to think. Hope this provides further understanding.

[Bruce McAuley]

44. TinFoilHat =deluded and unrealistic

And this poll was certainly advertised from the start as that and nothing else.
Sorry if it embarrassed you by the results, I was surprised myself.
It's only one quick moment in time at a large forum, but it is what it is, and nothing more.
Do almost 50% of DUers think George will take over as dictator? Likely not.
Do half of those looking and responding today think so?
Yup, seems like it.
Embarrassing for DU?
Not any more than any other forum, says me.
It certainly IS possible, and we've learned George ALWAYS does those things we most want him NOT to do.

Bruce

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

46. May I assume you are embarrassed because you still believe in the strength of our democracy?

I probably should read the sub-thread before posting this but,...may I request that you allow a little space for those of us who are fearing/preparing for the worst outcome in spite of your confidence? Please. I won't demean you even though I disagree with you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. Nope. Sorry.

I'm allowed to feel embarrassed about things here I consider monumentally overblown and unrealistic, and you of course are allowed not to feel that way.

But I have no reservations about expressing my opinion about how skewed polls like this make us look as a community.

[sakabatou]

31. He won't take power

But he'll try.

[KAT119]

32. The attack on Iran, or an inside domestic attack posing as a false flag,

and Then an attack on Iran (more oil to be stolen) will be the perfect scenario to declare Martial Law, dissolve pesky Congress, collect all guns and gold, close the banks, print a new currency, the AMERO, and any one who wishes to eat then has to work for the USA police state, and appease the Crackhead in Chief.

Dissenters go to FEMA citizen prisons to also work for the Bush/Neocon/Zionist military state as more recognizable SLAVES.

Stop these monsters NOW!

[windbreeze]

33. Afraid so...or at least he'll make a strong attempt...

do we really believe all the signing statements, and laws such as Patriot Act/MCA...are for nothing?? Do we think the sly grabbing control of the NG is nothing, for NO reason?(or should I say, how they have been sent to Iraq, and then ordered to return to the US w/o their equipment... is not for NO reason...the NG IS our only defense, statewise, against foreign/domestic enemies...so when they return to the states w/o their equipment, exactly how productive/protective can they be?)...how about the latest Presidential Directive....How about removing all the upper echelon military personnel that disagrees with him....This bunch is doing NOTHING for NO reason...but they just keep on keeping on...AND...getting away with it...I think it is smart to be aware/alert...don't take anything for granted, don't forget what's gone on before...expect anything and try to be prepared for it as best you can...
wb

[bdamomma]

34. I didn't vote because you never know what this maniac will

do next, but he must leave the office.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

35. George will leave when his time is up (which isn't soon enough!)

There was a time that I was REALLY worried that we were driting into a dictatorship or "dictatorship-like" state of government, at least on the national level, particularly through 2004. However, due to Iraq's continuing deterioration and the negative publicity generated by his handling of Katrina and some of the other scandals unearthed by Congress just in the past few months, I honestly don't think Bush and his (mis-)administration command the level of respect or loyalty that him assuming dictatorial control would require. A power grab following a "9/11-style" attack probably would probably backfire on Bush et. al as well simply because the facade that he and his (mis-)administration are "tough on terror" and "protecting the American people" would crack wide open and be laid bare for everybody to see. That people still believe that Bush and the GOP do a better job protecting the country from terrorists and other "evildoers" after 9/11 and the documented failures of the Bush (mis-)administration to protect us on that grim day is still incomprehensible by me. Also, even if Bush did declare martial law, who would enforce it? His zeal for war has, ironically, placed most of the military halfway across the world. I also doubt that he will find whatever military is actually left in this country would be as supportive, especially since it would destroy his facade that we are over in Iraq trying to "spread democracy". I think that the disconnect would be too jarring for anybody even in the military to manage. In short, I think that any "naked" power grabs by Bush et. al would likely be forcefully rejected by the American public.

[WI_DEM]

39. No, the country and yes, even the Republican party wouldn't let him

they want him gone as much as we do but for political reasons.

[baldguy]

40. You think Bush is in charge now?

He's just a meat puppet for the corporate industrial oligarchs who are really in charge.

[mvd]

42. He might leave, but the powers that be might not..

give up Repuke control of the Presidency easily. It's like they expect to be in power for a while, and we have to be on to their plans.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. I agree. This is the greatest concern to me: has been for quite some time.

I want these people prosecuted so they can NOT keep their fingers in our pies and lives.