Why is there no discussion on DU regarding Immigration?

[Dawgs]

I listen to right wing talk radio during the day, and that's all they talk about. Most of them hate the new bill, while only a few like it.

It has become a huge issue on the right, but not on the left. I realize Republicans are racist pigs, and want America to round up all "Mexicans" (brown people) and send them back to Mexico (or shoot them), but this doesn't explain why we don't have our own strong opinion.

Do we not care, or is it not that big of an issue with the left?

[NMDemDist2]

1. the flame wars went on and on over Immigration

I think mostly we've fought each other to exhaustion on that topic

it's been my experience that DU is usually 3-6 months ahead of the MSM on topics of discussion :shrug:

[Dawgs]

16. The new bill just came about a few weeks ago.

I visit DU quite often and have I've not seen one thread try to discuss it.

Talking about an issue 3-6 months ago is one thing. Not talking about a new bill that has the Republicans going crazy just seems weird to me.

[El Fuego]

2. Because we've been there, done that.

And there's not much left to say.

[LSK]

3. because its not important compared to other things?

The issue is the usual FEAR issue, that the Illegals are here to take your jobs, leech our Government, can be terrorists, etc etc etc. Maybe DUers can see through that bullshit?

[LeftishBrit]

17. Yes!

We get just the same fear tactics from our right-wing media, though for us it's more tabloids, and less talk-radio.

[mike_c]

4. there has been a huge amount of discussion about immigration here....

I think many of us are a bit burned out on the topic. Racism and xenophobia reared their heads in a majorly ugly way during the last round of discussion.

[Tempest]

5. Probably because

We know it's a dead issue until after the 2008 elections.

Why waste time on something that won't see the light of day for another two years?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlCzervik]

7. seriously? We've talked about it plenty, do a search.

immigrations threads end up with hundreds of responses and plenty of flame wars.

[Lex]

8. Largely the immigration issue is a right-wing scare tactic premised on

the fear of immigrants--brown immigrants, more specifically.

[sandnsea]

9. The Republicans are fighting

:popcorn:

[bdamomma]

10. they are more concerned what's coming in the southern border

but what about the northern border??

[El Fuego]

11. We're hoping it's porous so we can escape into Canada, eh?

[Zookeeper]

15. I wish it was....

I'd love to escape into Canada. (However, I'd get sent back.)

[Kolesar]

21. "Frost-backs"?

[Zookeeper]

25. 'Works for me. ;) n/t

[Kolesar]

32. Joke stolen from Garrison Keillor...eom

[William769]

12. It is a big issue on the left.

Unfortunately bashing Democrats on DU seems to be a bigger issue lately.

[Zookeeper]

13. We've done it....

Sides were drawn about a year ago.

The right is split between the xenophobes and the pro-business advocates.

The left is split between those who sympathize with citizens of others countries who are here illegally and those who sympathize with American workers and are concerned about suppression of wages.

The debate has become pointless and ripe for hard feelings.

[TahitiNut]

19. That's a pretty fair summary, imho. I'd almost lost hope anyone could do that.

What I find interesting is that the people on both sides of the split on the left seem to believe their viewpoint will somehow ultimately alleviate the suffering on the 'other' side. (Even though some few seem to deny the very existence of harm to the other side.)

[DemGa]

14. There's been plenty

What gets no traction is the fact that it is an illegal employer problem.

[panader0]

18. My take

I live quite close to the border and illegals are part of the scenery around here. I have 40 acres and have seen them walking through the trees here several times. The last sighting (on my land)was a few months ago, a line of a dozen or so souls walking quietly early in the morning. One young woman was carrying a baby. I have helped these folks in the past, long ago, before they became so numerous. Now, when I go to the river or the mountains, I see trash everywhere, the gallon plastic water jugs and food wrappers in Spanish. I think that the US should have an amnesty program for these people. The conditions which make them brave such a dangerous journey must be quite bad. A couple of hundred die from the heat every year in Arizona alone. However, they need to pay the same taxes as I do, to support the benefits they now receive free. And I believe that we need to secure our borders, not just our southern one. Any policy that offers amnesty or guest worker status or whatever, is not worth much as long as the door is still open. I believe that some day there will no borders, and to that ideal I hold. But in the mean time, our borders are wide open, even with the huge upsurge in Border Patrol agents. If the largely peaceful, work seeking illegals can pour over our borders, so could an enemy. And God knows, bush has made enemies of most of the people in the world.

[Kolesar]

20. DU could probably support an entire forum dedicated to the issue

I am not too crazy about the "touch back" provisions for undocumented immigrants in the latest bill.

I still have not figured out what the emphasis on skills and training means. It could be to promote bringing in cheaper IT, engineering, and technical talent. That will drive down wages for high tech jobs in the United States.

[Zookeeper]

23. "Cheaper IT, engineering and technical talent"

It will be interesting to see if some DUers change their viewpoint if their jobs are threatened.

[dogday]

22. Just another flame war waiting to happen

enuff said :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I don't have the energy anymore

HUGE flame wars last year over this topic.

[Bandit]

26. Here are a couple of recent threads and I am sure there are many more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=980501

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=980501#980812

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=980513#980768

[uppityperson]

27. Been lots, will be lots,just not right at moment. Search, patience. eom

[leftofthedial]

28. it's mostly a phony wedge issue

promoted by the oligarchy to inflame and divide the people

if you're not a bigot, it's not that big a deal

[Ganja Ninja]

29. I agree.

Also the recent bill won't do anything to address the so called "issue". It's a placebo that pretty much preserves the status quo.

[Kolesar]

31. With all the traits of a stellar RW issue: national security, racial supremacy, loss of jobs,..

...you know...fear mongering. The kind of issue that needs a strong-father figure to protect us in the "homeland".

[Warren DeMontague]

30. You answered your own question: "It has become a huge issue on the right"... why is that?

Is it because all of a sudden someone woke up and realized that illegal immigrants are here, picking crops, cleaning toilets, etc.? Has there been a dramatic change in the situation in the past 12-24 months?

No.

It's because the right wing has jack diddly shit to run on, and after their Terri Schiavo fiasco exploded the myth of the all-powerful "values voter" they're searching around for an red meat issue to get their base excited.

My "strong opinion" is, that if for some reason all of a sudden we need to "do something" about this, the place to start is with the companies that hire undocumented people, usually for sub-minimum wage.

But I'm sorry, I don't see this as a "crisis". I see it as a situation which we've been living with for a very long time.

[Zookeeper]

34. Perhaps the difference is the dramatic increase...

in number of people arriving here illegally. If you live in the West or Southwest, you may not notice it, but it's a new phenomenon in the rest of the country. In Mpls./St. Paul, roughly 100,000 illegal workers have arrived in the last five to ten years.

There is no historic or cultural connection to Latin American in most of the country, so the sudden influx is very obvious. And it does feel dramatic, since, unlike California and the Southwest, we haven't relied on cheap illegal labor for decades.

[UTUSN]

33. There's been a LOT of it, but it gets sidetracked by MIXED issues.

As far as Democratic persons go, what's to discuss? We are FOR social justice, humane treatment, protection of Labor's rights. It's getting the details covered that's the problem. And as far as dealing with the Wingnuts goes, there's NO dealing with them. They want fences, deportations, militarizing the borders, throwing cash at Draconian sinkholes.

Plus, discussions on this topic tend to get bogged down with the MIXING of issues: There ARE legitimate concerns regarding "national security," and "orderly, lawful process," but too often the legitimate PARTS of the overall topic get clouded by RACISM. Yes, "immigration" can be discussed withOUT "racism" but the separation needs to be made at the outset.

Plus, to those criticizing the o.p. for monitoring wingnut talkshows, we do it all the time. It's called opposition research. AND, leave us not be too pure, there are PLENTY of posters here who quite openly espouse Minutemen and Lou DOBBS positions.

[mitchum]

35. Because it is important to left the xenophobic repubs and the cheap labor...

repubs destroy their party over this issue