The level of discussion on DU is getting pretty sucky.

[High Plains]

Can we rise above name-calling, please? I don't care if it's Bush or Chavez or Sheehan, but calling them names is just goddamned childish.

Calling each other names because we disagree is equally stupid.

I'm referring in particular to the Chavez and immigration threads. I've been called a "stalinoid" and a "corporate apologist" on the same day. Sure, I've got thick skin, and being insulted by anonymous internet posters isn't going to ruin my day. But I'd like to see posters actually respond to my arguments instead of just tossing insults.

It happens way too often.

I'll try to be a good boy, too.

[geiger]

1. it's getting tiresome, and then there are a lot of people from the right coming in here baiting

and I'm astonished how many crusaders for whatever cause that is being "attacked" or being stupidly questioned (like it's an innocent question for example) jump at the bait

[donco6]

2. We have a troll problem.

We need some RAID.

[Az]

3. This is a near fatal flaw of reason

Reason is not exciting. A well reasoned argument does not generate a lot of feedback or comments beyond a couple of "Agreed"s. In any forum such as this the conversations that will remain pegged to the top are going to be the emotional combative ones. Where sides are clearly drawn and little or no give is to be found. A reasoned conversation will drop to the bottom.

Emotional statements and actions just draw more attention. This is why the media is the way it is as well. Cold hard facts just aren't sexy. They don't sell soap. The channel that tells you your child is in danger and that they will tell you about it at 11:00 is going to get more viewers than the channel that simply reads that a new study has found that a certain product is flawed.

The Churn of a forum such as this is always going to bury the slower paced reasoned discussions. The emotionally charged discussions will remain pegged at the top. The same is true of our society. Reason is buried by emotionalism.

[SmokingJacket]

31. Agreed.

I mean it, though!

However, a really smart, original argument is way more exciting than an overheated idiotic one, so that's why I hang around this place...

[mike_c]

4. I agree wholeheartely....

As someone whose personal politics are FAR to the left of even the mainstream democratic party, I'm VERY thick skinned.

For my own part, I've learned that when we're angry enough to start being snarky or to begin name calling, it's time to put away the keyboard. No discussion can take place when people are uncivil with one another. We can always disagree, but a gentleman or a gentlewoman disagrees respectfully.

[EFerrari]

16. I call your thick skin out. Or more simply, exfoliate!

(That could be Zappa: "Exfoliate and drift with me . . .")

:)

I've been trying recently to behave like an adult. It's very awkward at first. Like wearing a Hallowe'en costume and trying to dance at the same time.

[mike_c]

23. LOL-- I won't share the DISGUSTING image that evoked....

:rofl: :hi:

[EFerrari]

25. Then my job is done.

:rofl:

[eleny]

5. I thought it was against DU Rule #3 that we not trash other DUers

"3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html


I've alerted when I've seen some of this. But it doesn't always get deleted. The mods really try but some things can be overwhelming. Maybe there's just too much of it going on to keep up with.

[AZBlue]

38. The mods seem overwhelmed lately. We all might need to use the "alert" button more.

Unless reading that makes the mods groan in horror, lol.

There was a thread the other day started by a newbie to DU and almost all the responses were rude, disrespectful and full of hate - and they pointed out that the OP was new. I hit alert several times on that one - another rule is that you can't point out and ostracize the newbies. I felt bad for the person - what a welcome to DU!

[rug]

6. Fathead.

[AlCzervik]

14. ---------

:spank: :spank: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Kurovski]

34. High Plains said "sucky"

*huh huh, heh heh*

"High"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Stalinoid?

Is it that the level of discussion on DU is getting pretty sucky, or that we've entered a time warp and somehow ended up in 1952?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. ...

:nopity:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Thanks for providing the example.

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. We get it, we get it.

We don't need anymore examples, thanks though.

[tkmorris]

11. So, you PREFER name-calling contests?

Really? Is that what you want this place to be?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Th1onein]

37. How do I hit alert here?

Nevermind. I found it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Ahhhh Self Delete. So Not Worth It.

[tkmorris]

10. When you're right, you're right

It's usually the same people too. It's gotten to where I can predict from the thread title exactly which DU'ers are going to show up in the thread and start flinging poo. I don't care which candidate you support, or whether you are far left or moderate, or whatever your personal sacred cow is. The level of discourse has GOT rise above this sort of thing.

[Az]

12. For many people a very emotional event just happened

Much of their hopes and emotions were tied up in the funding vote and when the Dems caved ... well it set off a bit of a storm. DU has experienced other events like this and witnessed a drop in civility for a short period of time afterwards. People burnt and spurned will lash out at those closest to them in anger and confusion.

Give it time. Civility to return.

[BornagainDUer]

44. The bigger question for me here is why would people place

so much hope in a party that seldom steps up to the plate? There is something wrong with a person's brain that does that.

[treestar]

17. I'm racist and anti-semitic

And I learned that on DU within the past year! And I spent so many years thinking of myself as a liberal!

Sometimes people can't think of their next argument, so they resort to the name calling. Especially when it is something they get emotional about.

[EFerrari]

21. treestar, you know I love you. But with respect, as a culture

we really do have a problem with racism. We don't recognize it and we don't know how to talk about it. And that's a problem if we're ever going to do any better -- and we need to do better and fast.

So, while I agree with you that insults are sometimes put up like placeholders when people can't figure out their next move in an argument, we really do have a racism problem in this country and it concerns me that we don't seem to know it very well.

I try to talk about this here on DU and too much of the time, I just piss people off. But, it would be a good thing, imho, if we learned how to talk about racism. And I don't' know how else to do that unless we try to and we practice.

[treestar]

39. We need to talk about racism

And we need to impeach the Chimperor, too! Though that leaves us with Cheney. Impeach them all!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

41. Cheney first.

:hi:

[valerief]

19. I think complaining about name-calling is more tiresome. nt

[Mythsaje]

20. Didn't I say it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1018300&mesg_id=1018300

[onenote]

22. While there are trolls around, they are hardly the sole reason for the "sucky" level of discourse

on some threads.

The problem is that there seem to be a lot of immature folks on DU -- not necessarily young, just immature. Their way of responding to a challenge to their views is to engage in name calling. A lot of time this name calling is directed at repubs, but all too often it then spills over to anyone with whom a poster disagrees.

Frankly, I'd like to see less petty, name calling posting even about repubs. For example, a recent post characterized all repubs as "human garbage". I know its just hyperbole (or at least I hope so), but it doesn't really contribute to the level of discourse and, for those who view this forum as a resource for figuring out how to win the hearts and minds of our fellow citizens so that we can reclaim true control of the government and reset the course of the nation in a proper direction --- well, it just doesn't do much.

Maybe I expect too much from DU and I do realize that it serves other purposes, including providing a forum for people to let off steam and vent their justifiable anger at what has been going on for the past 8 years. But I can still hope that people will try to channel some of that anger into intelligent discourse rather than rants.

Flame away? :)

[EFerrari]

27. I can't even find matches to light my death sticks.

It would be nice if people were more aware that insults don't move conversations forward. Really nice.

[Kurovski]

30. But if we can't pick on l'il George Bush, the DUzy's will suffer.

So now you're for suffering?!

Why exactly do you hate America so very, very much?

Why? :cry:

I'm trying to think of a name for a monster such as yourself, but the best I can do is "sweetums". Darn you to heck.

[EFerrari]

32. "Don't go changing to try and please me

You've never let me down before . . ."


:rofl:

[Kurovski]

35. All this abuse...

and yet I keep coming back for more. :loveya:

You and your big smart-alecky brain!

You're a BIG BRAIN!!!

BIG BRAIN!!!
BIG BRAIN!!!
BIG BRAIN!!!

[EFerrari]

36. Don't make me go to musicals.

Bamba, bamba. Bamba, bamba.

:loveya:

[phantom power]

24. Pull my finger.

:rofl:

[Madspirit]

26. It IS difficult here

We have 104,000 people from EVERY political perspective. There are Social Democrat Lesbian Vegans to Right Wing Really Conservative Democrats and everything in between. We step on each other's toes because the issues are so important to us and yet we are often on very different sides.
Lee

[progressoid]

28. Hey, who you callin' goddamned childish?

;)

[EFerrari]

29. Please don't make Skinner get the list out.

That would be embarrassing.

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

33. hmmm. herding cats are you, or just trying?

[Kurovski]

42. The reality is, it's always good to think twice,

and it's better to state what exactly you mean by a name, rather than taking the easy way out with a dismissive insult.

But sfexpat2000 is fair game.

[BornagainDUer]

43. DU has turned into a big Psy-ops IMO. I laughed when I

heard Al Gore calling for maintaining Internet freedom, blah, blah. The fascists have so much money they can infiltrate and disrupt any coherent discussion; they don't need to stop the process only COINTELPRO it. Most Americans don't think, won't think, and can't stand people who make them think.

Now watch my reply here get deleted.