Game theory proves: Men should leave the seat *down*...

[BlooInBloo]

It would of course be a little better to say that game theory proves that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/the-social-norm-of-leaving-the-toilet-seat-down-a-game-theoretic-analysis/

"In this paper, we internalize the cost of yelling and model the conflict as a non-cooperative game between two species, males and females.We find that the social norm of leaving the toilet seat down is inefficient. However, to our dismay, we also find that the social norm of always leaving the toilet seat down after use is not only a Nash equilibrium in pure strategies but is also trembling-hand perfect. So, we can complain all we like, but this norm is not likely to go away."

[Xipe Totec]

1. If it's governed by mathematics,

then why the controversy?

If it's going to happen, it's going to happen.

Unless it doesn't.

[cassiepriam]

2. Two species, male and female? I thought we belonged to the same human species?

[Turbineguy]

3. It's not just

the plumbing...

[cassiepriam]

20. Actually I have longed believed that men are a different species.

[donsu]

23. yes :) it's also been called: the Race of Men, the Race of Women

nt

[cassiepriam]

24. Perhaps Men really are from Mars???

[BlooInBloo]

4. Definitely a poor choice of wording.

[ElboRuum]

12. Means something different when you're discussing game theory.

[Warpy]

5. One of my mother's friends had a husband like that

in a family with four daughters.

She painted the bottom of the seat with "Daddy's Home!"

The seat stayed down.

[rzemanfl]

18. Many years ago I knew a woman who had the bottom of her

toilet seat painted in elaborate script with the words "It's so nice to have a man around the house." Unfortunately, she died in her twenties of leukemia.

[Thor_MN]

6. I see, so a strong belief that one is right trumps fact in game theory.

So when * whines and says that he needs war funding with no timelines, the proper game theory move is to acquiesce. When Dickhead Chenney says that his visitor logs must remain secret, the proper game theory move is just give in. When Wingnuts say evolution is just a theory and dinosaurs and humans co-existed on Noah's ark, the best move is to just let them have their way.

I guess game theory says that the way to win any game is to bitch louder and longer than your opponents until you get your way. Make life so painful for the others in the game that they just go along with whatever you say. Has anyone checked to see if John Nash isn't been held in Chenney's basement bunker?

Maybe this explains why some people consider Dumbya brilliant. He has been a devoutee of changing the rules, and repeating the same bitching over and over until he gets his way since childhood. He's a freaking game theory prodigy.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Um, yes, how you account for costs affects a game theoretic analysis.

[Thor_MN]

9. I'm thinking that not all costs have been accounted for...

Creative accounting, Enron style.

[On the Road]

27. That Might Actually be a Legitimate Insight from Game Theory

The next question is to how to change the rules. Street protests and letter writing campaigns clearly don't do it.

[The Count]

8. For once, gravity is a woman's friend!

[Fovea]

10. Flawed

without analysis of relative frequency of operation 1 versus operation 2 and the relative frequency between J and M.

[HereSince1628]

11. I solved this dilemma decades ago... I just pee in the sink

No seat to mess with and S.O. thinks shes won on the toilet seat issue.

The trick to winning any game of cooperation is to change the rules in your favor. :evilgrin:

[glowing]

13. That is disgusting.

[HereSince1628]

14. But, it is a winning strategy! And energy efficient, too.

And I save energy having to walk to the toilet and then to the sink to wash my hands.

[glowing]

34. I hope you clean the bathroom then!!

[HereSince1628]

42. Who Me??????

Actually, the only cleaning the S.O. does is vacuuming.

It doesn't really take much more than washing hands to rinse out the bowl of the sink. I'm pretty sure it takes LESS water than flushing a toilet.

Certainly less water than it takes to chase down the hair from her shaving in the tub.

[JVS]

43. way to go!

[porphyrian]

15. The toilet seat position argument is the most stupid argument I've ever been in.

I personally lift the seat so I don't piss on it, because I don't want to sit in piss when I sit, and I assume others share that desire. It takes all of a second and very little effort to change the position of the seat, and it takes even less effort to check it's position before using the toilet, which is the crux of my problem with putting the onus entirely on men. As a good domesticated male during my tenure as a husband, I always put the fucking thing down, usually along with the lid - if I have to do an extra needless step in the pissing procedure, so does everyone else. Now that I'm divorced (I know that shocks many of you), I don't pay any attention to it at all, and I've never sat in the bowl.

And I hate statisticians.

[Matsubara]

16. I keep it down for the wife, as do my two boys...

...but if I were single, I don't know what I would do - I really never thought about it and don't care either way. Up or down is fine with me.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. we have kitties... so the rule is, both lids down

It's more sanitary to have the lid down when you flush it anyway.

[WyLoochka]

33. "Dr Germ" as he's known at

U of AZ studied the "fecal plume" that rises during the flushing of toilets. Viva has it right - per Dr Germ BOTH seat and lid should be put down before flushing - not just to keep the kitties out, but to keep the fecal plume in the bowl and off toothbrushes and other exposed personal hygiene articles.

I would think men, as well as women, would like to keep their toothbrushes free of microscopic fecal contaminants.

[yella_dawg]

17. Easy solution to the toilet seat problem.

Put both the seat and lid down.

The egalitarian solution.

[wtmusic]

21. Me likey!

:thumbsup:

[Buzz Clik]

31. Egalatarian my butt.

Yes, that's the only solution that will keep the peace, but the problem is the gender-specific squawking.

Any man who wishes to retain his sanity about this subject with simply shut up and put the lids down. Not because it makes the best sense or is the best solution for everyone -- it simply reduces the noise level.

[VelmaD]

19. the reason to put the lid down...

has nothing to do with gender. You should close the lid (not just put the seat down) before you flush because flushing throws all sorts of bacteria up into the air. If you don't want that shit landing on your toothbrush...close the lid.

[Stargazer99]

25. How about a simple foot leaver

To raise the seat up or down....so damn simple even a caveman could do it.

[camero]

26. It's common courtesy

Leaving the seat down gives them one less thing to do when you really have to go. In the same vein, maybe they should leave the seat up for us. Same concept.

[Rydz777]

28. I'm forever grateful for the advances of science. nt

[rasputin1952]

29. I think women should leave the seat up!

[Buzz Clik]

30. This it the order of priorties, and nothing else matters:

Men:

1. Don't pee on the seat. That's disgusting for all genders who use that toilet. Just lift the lid before you pee. Is that too goddam much to ask?
   
2. Putting the ring down after peeing is a courtesy, but NOT mandatory. However, see number 3.
   
3. If you neglect putting down the ring, expect to hear about it every time.
   
4. If you put the ring down every time, you will never be thanked. Ever. Get used to it.

Women:

1. Replace the toilet paper. What the hell is wrong with you? (Okay, this has nothing to do with the toilet lid, but fer crying out loud...!!!)
   
2. "When I pee in the middle of the night with lights out, if the ring is up, I fall in the toilet." Yeah, that sucks. Ever think about checking first? Seriously, you can either sit in his pee sprinkles that he left when HE peed in the middle of the night without checking for the ring's position, you can check where the ring is, or you can risk falling in. There are no other options.

[JVS]

44. sounds right

Who the hell taught some people that they should just aim their asses at the toilet without checking? Anyone who depends on someone else to keep their ass dry is going to be disappointed at some point.

[BlooInBloo]

45. Exception to M1: In a bar. Often the seat is (a) down, and (b) peed on. I ain't touchin that.

[donsu]

32. I wish men would sit down too. they spash and drip all around

the toilet when standing.

[wtmusic]

35. It's a territorial thing

:evilgrin:

[cobalt1999]

36. On my sailboat I have a sit down while peeing rule for everyone.

On a rocking boat, it is easy to miss the target, then the pee ends up in the bilge or just stinks up the head. So, even the guys must sit while peeing or they're banned for life.

I've never had any complaints nor had to ban anyone yet.

[wtmusic]

39. In my house all must pee while standing up nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. It's no game to my wife. As she has reminded me (loudly) any number of times.

[OxQQme]

38. In my loo

the toilet seat is spring loaded to be in the 'up' position if you're not seated. heh
Never had a problem with fecal matter transference via toothbrush (that I know of)

[mondo joe]

40. You heterosexuals deserve each other.

Just saying. ;-)

(When we put in our second bathroom it's going to include a urinal.)

[wtmusic]

41. But whatever do you gays find to argue about?

;)

[Madspirit]

48. Are You Kidding?

We still have the ever popular toothpaste lid and which end to squeeze it from. (My girlfriend and I really do go round about this sometimes... :rofl:)
Lee

[stevedeshazer]

46. I leave the seat down. Stop the beatdown of men.

It's ridiculous.

Misogyny has a rival on DU.

Guess what? We're not all the same. We're not all bad.

[Madspirit]

47. Question for BlooInBloo!!

How long did it take you to find this topic? :rofl:

I love it but knowing how the Skinner man feels about toilet topics it could disappear any moment. :rofl:

Lee

[BlooInBloo]

50. (a) I didn't realize that The Big Guy had any feelings one way or the other on the topic...

.... (b) How I found the story: The topic of rss aggregators came up on a mailing list I belong to, and I suggested my preferred one (rssBandit). I hadn't used it in forever, so I dusted it off, updated it, and have now been happily auto-updated/auto-innundated with all of the news and information I could possibly want for the last 3 days.

I'm more surprised at this thread's activity from *DUers*.

:)

[Cobalt-60]

49. Close the lid!

It is a toilet in there, you know.