These Health Care Plans....

[THUNDER HANDS]

If they're mandatory and the employer and the employee are compelled to buy into it, how does that work for independant contractors or 1099 people?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I make enough to live on and that's all

if I'm forced to spend 1/4 to 1/2 of my salary on health care insurance, then why work at all?

[pitohui]

2. most independent contractors can't afford private health insurance

in my state there are only two private plans and they are not something you can readily afford if you are over 40 and don't have a very high income

hence the only way to get insurance is to marry someone else who has it thru their job

if you can't marry (same sex as your partner, for example, or no partner) then you just do without these days as hurricane katrina destroyed the public health care system and it is no more

there may be a few states left where private health plans are affordable for contractors but i don't know which they may be, i think washington state may be one

it is just really unwise these days to get in a trap of being self-employed/contractor, you are painting yourself into a corner in later life when you are too old to afford the private plans and too young for medicare

the "dream" of owning your own business is a terrible dead-end trap, it may have been fine in the 50s thru the 70s but young people starting out today should educate themselves so they can get actual jobs w. benefits

what we middle aged are supposed to do, i have no idea, my back-up plan is a shotgun to take myself out if i become too ill, the alternate being to destroy my family financially which is not acceptable

[Greyhound]

28. Don't do it. Get angry, get out, get loud. Refuse to submit, that's what they're counting on.

Be a real pain in the ass.

At the very least take a few of the bastards with you, let them live in fear for a change.

[sandnsea]

3. state & subsidized programs

Edwards' plan calls for a govt plan to be set up that people can buy into, and a sliding scale subsidy for insurance.

People have to pay. In other countries they have to pay a percentage of their income.

That's how single payer would be. Mandated, just like social security and medicare.

I don't understand why people don't get that.

[pitohui]

4. in other countries aka europe people are a lot richer

we don't have any disposable income left as it is, they have weeks of paid vacations, endless public transportation so they don't have to maintain motor vehicles unless they chose to do so, it goes on and on, yet their taxes are no higher than our taxes are now

we simply can't afford to pay anything more, there is no lint left in my pocket to be stolen

[sandnsea]

5. so maybe yours would be free

We can't have universal health care unless we have a system where everybody, except the very poorest, pay something. Where the hell do people think the money will come from? The rich can't pay for everything.

[Solon]

6. For each individual person, single payer is the cheapest option...

That's the whole point, you leave no one out, you cover everybody, and hence the cost, paid through taxes, is spread to absolutely everybody, so, on the individual level, its cheaper for everybody. That's the problem with the "subsidized" insurance plans is that they may reduce individual cost, but overall, they will be more expensive to maintain, collectively, because we will end up with hundreds of bureaucracies that are redundant.

[sandnsea]

7. Everybody pays taxes

Everybody pays for single payer. Mandated. So I don't know why people scream over Edwards' program just because it has a mandatory feature.

[Solon]

8. Because his plan would force you to buy into the private system...

which, by default, is more expensive than public systems. While he said that pre-existing conditions will be covered, there are many ways that insurance companies reduce costs, including prohibitively expensive co-pays and deductibles, requiring pre-approval for certain conditions, denying coverage for certain conditions, not related to pre-existing conditions, etc. Single payer wouldn't have those restrictions.

[sandnsea]

9. That is not true, repeat after me,

NOT TRUE.

His plan creates a govt system, like Medicare or Medicaid, that you can choose to buy into.

And that isn't what people are griping about anyway, they just don't like the mandate. I do not know where they think the money will come from.

[Solon]

10. How do you "buy into" Medicare?

Is it like it is now, through taxes only, or is it some type of supplemental that's above the tax system? In addition to this, does it have any restrictions related to whether employers provide insurance, income, tax level, or employment?

[sandnsea]

11. Write a check, withholding

However we the people decide we want it done. Just like we'd do with single payer. Right?

[Solon]

12. True, it would be just rolled up with FICA taxes...

The only differences between single payer and Medicare are that the restrictions of Medicare would be lifted, to cover all citizens, and Medicare itself would be empowered to negotiate prices for medical care. To be honest, I don't see a point in doing anything further, we don't need to subsidize the insurance companies, we don't even have to touch them, just extend Medicare to cover all, and see which system, private or public, will win out.

[sandnsea]

14. Point being

We ALL have to participate, on a sliding scale. That means mandate. It's silly to argue about that aspect.

The hard part is convincing a majority to accept a 100% government plan, which I don't think they will. That being the case, the next hard part is getting the left to accept that we have to tolerate insurance for a while longer - if we're going to get everybody in to see a doctor, which is the actual goal.

[Solon]

15. Problem is that you waste money when you throw it into the private system...

This has been proven time and again. The fact is that you AREN'T going to get everyone to go to the doctor under a private system. So you will need a public system to pick up the slack, the biggest difference between the chimeras of the big 3 and a plan like Kucinich's is that his is cheaper to implement.

[sandnsea]

16. What the hell do you care

If everybody gets to see a doctor, and the idiots who insist on a private system are the ones paying for the bulk of it, then why fight it. The goal is for real live human beings to be able to see a doctor. By refusing to consider anything except single payer, you're literally killing people.

[Solon]

17. I care about plans that WORK, no need for dramatics here...

The biggest danger of the plans from the big 3 is that they may end up being TOO expensive, or too ineffective, and end up being abandoned in favor of what we have now. They may pass Congress, that's not the problem, the problem is that they may end up being boondoggles in themselves, and we will end up setting back health care reform by another decade.

[sandnsea]

18. Oh no, don't get dramatic

about not being able to see a doctor. Let me guess, you don't have that problem.

Are you watching CNN? The town hall? They didn't want to consider ANY changes to our health system, let alone consider single payer. People believe IT will be the boondoggle, like Walter Reed. It will not pass.

Sick people who can't see a doctor is dramatic. I don't know why people fight getting people help, just because the plan doesn't meet their particular set of criteria. Subsidized insurance is getting passed in several states, it's saving lives. For people with nothing, that looks pretty damn good.

[Solon]

20. I'm in constant pain because I can't afford to see a doctor...

I have a pinched nerve in my left shoulder, I require surgery to get it fixed, which is really expensive, and if I don't get it fixed, the nerve may die, causing me to lose use of my arm. In addition, I can't qualify for disability, I tried, and I don't qualify for Medicare, and Medicaid was cut in my state(thanks Blunt). In addition, subsidized insurance doesn't help me when I can't even afford to pay for the damned premiums/deducts/co-pays in the first place. Not to mention that its a pre-existing condition, so insurance companies wouldn't cover it anyways.

[sandnsea]

21. Missouri Health Insurance Pool

Premiums from $300 to $1400. With a subsidized plan in place, you could get it as low as $15.00, while poverty level folks would still qualify for medicaid. That plan could be implemented nationally this year, it would get majority support. Instead, you suffer for your ideology.

[Solon]

22. I don't qualify for MHIP anyways, so I don't see why you mention it...

I would have to pay 20% of the first 12,500 bucks for my surgery, and I would have to wait about a year before I can even have the surgery, and there is no guarantee that they will cover it in the first place.

I can get health insurance, that's not the problem, I just can't afford TREATMENT for my condition. Those are two different things, if I'm willing to pay, any insurance company will cover me for everything EXCEPT my pinched nerve. I don't even qualify for enrolling, you think I didn't try?

[sandnsea]

23. Waiting lists, eh

Isn't that the criticism govt health plans always get?? Anyways..

If you have insurance, you're going to get your surgery, bottom line. If you didn't qualify for MHIP, it's because you have other insurance available at a reasonable rate. If we had a subsidized system in place, you'd be getting help to pay for it, if you're income is low enough. Your arm is still injured because you're insisting on the fantasy of single payer, and you're making thousands of Missourians suffer right along with you.

[Solon]

24. No insurance company is going to pay for my surgery, period...

I know, I looked, every single one will NOT pay for my pre-existing condition. When my condition manifested itself, I was just starting a new job, unfortunately I couldn't enroll in their insurance plan until I worked there 3 months. Because my job involved a lot of physical labor, and I couldn't do it, I was canned.

I already paid, out of pocket, doctor visits, an emergency room visit, some physical therapy(couldn't afford to finish it), and one visit to an orthopedic surgeon who wants me to have an MRI on the shoulder, so he knows what's going on in there before surgery, I definitely couldn't afford that, so I went with the EMG, which was painful, couldn't move for almost 5 days after that, but they know the pinch is somewhere in the shoulder, and not my neck. The surgeon still wants the MRI, just so he knows where the nerve is exactly.

As far as my income, well, its zero, and my only hope at getting a job right now is a good word from a friend, almost 300 miles away, who will try to help me get a job at her work. Unfortunately, around where I live, I can't lie on my damned application, and no one wants someone with a "gimped" arm working for them. I even did a free consultation with a lawyer about this, he said it'd be a pain in the ass to prove that I'm discriminated against due to my medical condition, and that, frankly, I'd have better luck with no arm than an arm that I can't lift above my shoulder.

Let's just say that life sucks, and its time for my pill(which costs an arm and a leg).

[sandnsea]

25. If you're unemployed

With minimal assets, you qualify for Medicaid. If you've been turned down for insurance, then you would qualify for MHIP. I understand it can be expensive, which is why I don't understand why you oppose a subsidy to help you AT LEAST pay for that. You would get your shoulder surgery within a few months that way.

I have thyroid disorder, diabetes, frozen shoulder, and an inner ear disorder that requires surgery. I've got nothing unless I can qualify for the subsidized program. I can't understand why you'd choose nothing, and subject everybody else to that too. It will take the far left and the Democrats to even get a subsidized program passed, and they won't come together to do that. While people die. It just makes no sense.

[Matsubara]

13. I don't know about the candidate's plans, but here in Japan they are on a sliding scale...

...based on income. Since my employer is in the states, I am treated as an independent contractor, and I pay the state health insurance out of pocket. My income is not so high, so the premiums are quite reasonable. Hopefully the candidates would make similar options available for freelancers, etc.

They can only be made feasible if the corporate health insurance companies are taken out of the mix. They have a HUGE overhead compared to a government system like medicaid.

[StudentProgressive]

19. "Sicko" will make Kucinich's plan the most popular doubtlessly

Obama/Edwards/Hillary's plans didn't get applauses in the arena; there's one reason: they're so damn complicated no one understands them. And no one understands why we should subsidize insurance companies when they're the problem.

[Greyhound]

26. Irrelevant. They are nothing more than multi-billion dollar giveaways to

corporate campaign contributors. The Conyers-Kucinich plan is the only one that will make your life better.

[Cleita]

27. It doesn't.

Go to this website and read their plan for single payer universal health care.

http://www.pnhp.org. Their plan is one that is really well thought out by medical care professionals and that should be the model for any plan we get in this country.