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Look who's censoring now: NY man faces 5 yrs in prison for offering satellite tv channel!

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 09:11 AM
Original message
Look who's censoring now: NY man faces 5 yrs in prison for offering satellite tv channel!
Edited on Mon Jun-04-07 09:31 AM by NorthernSpy
After listening to all the sturm und drang surrounding Venezuela's decision not to renew the public airwaves license of the pro-coup RCTV, I remembered a case of actual censorship taking place right here in the Land Of Free Speech (tm). Does the name Javed Iqbal ring any bells?

Briefly, Javed Iqbal is a New York businessman who offered satellite tv packages that included access to foreign news channels, including Hezbollah's al-Manar satellite broadcasts. From the BBC:

A US businessman has been charged with offering broadcasts of Hezbollah's al-Manar satellite television station to customers in the New York-area.

(...)

According to court papers and government documents, the authorities sent an agent posing as a potential customer after being informed that Mr Iqbal was offering al-Manar TV.

Mr Iqbal reportedly offered the agent a television package that included access to al-Manar broadcasts.



As Iqbal's lawyers point out, if China or Iran were doing this against an access provider who made the satellite broadcasts of an American news entity available to his customers, "America would be hopping up and down crying freedom of speech and freedom of the press".

The prosecutor in this case insists that "the charge lurking in the background is material support for terrorism". That sounds as though it should mean that Iqbal was engaged in raising money to arm Hezbollah, but it doesn't. Apparently, merely offering consumers the capability to tune into a broadcast is all that is needed to constitute "material support" for the activities of any group associated with that broadcast.

Under that standard, RCTV is certainly guilty of "material support for terrorism". And yet non-renewal of their license to use the public broadcast spectrum is the only sanction they face? Instead of, say, lengthy prison terms like they'd get here in the Land Of The Free? So why aren't the Chavez-haters here screaming their free-speech-loving heads off over what their own government has tried to do to Javed Iqbal and his satellite broadcast service?


Just double standards as usual, I fear.



(edit: removed redundant word "to")
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. well, according to them
it's different. Somehow. Or something.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Funny how they are also freezing out Al Jazeera English which is EXCELLENT
It's a true left-leaning news outlet.
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. you can get it on free-to-air satellite, but then you used to be able to get alManar on FTA. nt
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. why are the Hugo-bashers so quiet now?
What's the matter -- did they all suddenly get bucked off the ole Freeeee Speech high-horse, or something?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. So is this case of censorship not ok but Chavez's is?
What's your point?

And what is with the Chavistas desperately seeking out other examples of censorship? Has anyone said that Chavez is the only person to ever censor anyone?

Shit one of my point in the other threads was Chavez's citing of sexual content on soap operas as part of the reason for the revocation and I brought up our own overzealous FCC and Janet Jackson's titty as an example hoping Chavista would make the connection.

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. see my reply to you below (n/m)
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Woo hoo Chavez and Bush brothers in arms in the fight to censor dissenting opinion!
You think citing this case of censorship improves Chavez's case?
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. let's compare:
Iqbal versus RCTV

Iqbal: objectionable actions concern offering access to the mouthpiece channel of a group who are waging an armed campaign in a foreign country -- not in the United States.
RCTV: objectionable action concerns promoting an armed coup in Venezuela itself.

Iqbal: risks criminal conviction and federal prison sentence.
RCTV: risks not being allowed exclusive use of a chunk of the public broadcast spectrum.

Iqbal: silenced -- can't offer satellite broadcasts from prison.
RCTV: not silenced -- still allowed to offer satellite broadcasts.



There are differences between these two cases -- and they're largely in Chavez' favor.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Only if you look at RCTV in a vaccum
Which doesn't take in account two other stations that were coup participants but under threat have adopted a more Chavez friendly slant got their license renewed. A 3rd station is under threat on the flimsiest of basis's.

Also missing is that the US did not summarily confiscate Iqbal property and coop his signal to broadcast government propaganda.

The citing of one case of censorship doesn't not wipe away another. If your point is that anti-Chavez people ignored this case of censorship, well so did Chavistas until it became a convenient example of hypocrisy.

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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. exactly what I'm NOT doing...
Edited on Mon Jun-04-07 02:00 PM by NorthernSpy
Which doesn't take in account two other stations that were coup participants but under threat have adopted a more Chavez friendly slant got their license renewed. A 3rd station is under threat on the flimsiest of basis's.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that Venezuela should deny license renewals to broadcasters who have made an effort to live up to the terms they agreed to when they sought their their licenses? Are you saying that if Venezuela would do that, you would accept the non-renewal of the RCTV license as fair?

Also missing is that the US did not summarily confiscate Iqbal property and coop his signal to broadcast government propaganda.

Pardon me, but what the hell?

RCTV didn't own the public broadcast spectrum: they were granted the privilege of exclusive use of a portion of the spectrum, subject to review and renewal of their license. The airwaves were never RCTV property in the first place.

A Venezuelan court ruled that the new TV station would have temporary use of the old RCTV broadcast facilities, because the public's immediate need for television service was, in the court's judgement, compelling. There was no "summary confiscation". But I wouldn't be surprised if RCTV eventually lost the rights to at least of some of its property. That's one of the risks you take when you fail to pay your taxes, but never mind: I guess it's probably just more horrific oppression to expect RCTV to pay taxes like everyone else.

As it happens, Mr. Iqbal assets are subject to forfeiture, and his business is probably pretty thoroughly ruined at this point in any case.

The citing of one case of censorship doesn't not wipe away another. If your point is that anti-Chavez people ignored this case of censorship, well so did Chavistas until it became a convenient example of hypocrisy.

But that's just it: the RCTV action isn't censorship by any reasonable standard -- not unless the government somehow owes everyone perpetual and immortal broadcast licenses, whether the licensees choose to violate the terms or not. If that's the case, then hell: where's MY broadcast license? Help, help, I'm being repressed!

On the other hand, the actions of the US government in the Iqbal case do look a lot more like blatant censorship. But a careful reader would have noticed that I haven't actually expressed an opinion on whether any of the actions taken in this matter might be wholly or partly justifiable; I've merely pointed out that they constitute censorship. National security and public safety can be compelling and legitimate rationales for taking actions that may limit free expression in some instances -- regardless of whether the Iqbal case is one of those instances or not.

My point in citing the Iqbal matter is this: Venezuela has the authority (and the duty) to take the security of the Venezuelan state and people every bit as seriously as we take our own security. If it would not be unreasonable for the US to refuse to renew the license of a television network that aided and abetted a coup against our own government -- as well as committed other violations of the licensing terms -- then it's not unreasonable for the Venezuelans to decline to renew the RCTV license, either.

When you can come up with a real case of Venezuela suppressing dissent, then by all means, let's hear it. But until then, the "free speech" faction are simply crying wolf out of purely political motives.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm saying its selective prosecution.
2 stations have knuckled under and got their licenses renewed.

"RCTV didn't own the public broadcast spectrum:"

Of course they didn't

"they were granted the privilege of exclusive use of a portion of the spectrum, subject to review and renewal of their license. The airwaves were never RCTV property in the first place."

Yet instead of putting this license up for sale it was coopted by the government seeking more socilist friendly broadcasting.

"A Venezuelan court ruled that the new TV station would have temporary use of the old RCTV broadcast facilities, because the public's immediate need for television service was, in the court's judgement, compelling."

IOW a summary confiscation backed by flimsy ruling by a court system stacked with his supporters.

"There was no "summary confiscation"."

The above is just that.

"But I wouldn't be surprised if RCTV eventually lost the rights to at least of some of its property. That's one of the risks you take when you fail to pay your taxes,:

Why does it seem the more reason put out by the Chavez government for this closing that are looked at as bogus, the more charges come up? The main reason cited has been the coup. That was then expanded to sexual content aimed at children. Now its taxes. What will it be next week?


but never mind: I guess it's probably just more horrific oppression to expect RCTV to pay taxes like everyone else.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. you see, I think that you'd STILL complain, no matter how Ven. enforces the law...
2 stations have knuckled under and got their licenses renewed.

"Knuckled under" -- as in began abiding by the terms they agreed to when they sought a broadcast license.

Yet instead of putting this license up for sale it was coopted by the government seeking more socilist friendly broadcasting.

So Venezuela is getting a public TV channel: so what? We have public stations here. Where is it written that broadcast frequencies must be reserved solely for those private entities rich enough to afford their own television network?

IOW a summary confiscation backed by flimsy ruling by a court system stacked with his supporters.

You don't agree with the court -- what else is new? But the fact is that this was a by-the-book judicial decision to allow temporary use of existing broadcast infrastructure to serve a compelling public need -- and not in fact a summary seizure of property by Mr. Chavez.

Our own laws allow for the same thing: taking private property for a compelling public purpose (or indeed for nonpayment of taxes). That's been the law since the dawn of forever. And just as in Venezuela, all of this is subject to review by the judicial system. Is it okay for us to hold such proceedings, but wrong for Venezuela to do the same?


Why does it seem the more reason put out by the Chavez government for this closing that are looked at as bogus, the more charges come up? The main reason cited has been the coup. That was then expanded to sexual content aimed at children. Now its taxes. What will it be next week?

Thing is, you haven't demonstrated that the most serious reason for the denial of license is "bogus", and you've avoided my arguments re these issues.

And yes, RCTV has committed more than one species of infraction. And yes again, the ongoing revelations of their scofflaw attitude does tend to knock down their value as poster children for Chavez' detractors. But if that bothers you, why don't you take it up with RCTV themselves? After all, they're the ones who chose to duck the tax laws and ignore mandatory protections for minors.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. And I think you'd defend Chavez no matter what.
Edited on Mon Jun-04-07 05:06 PM by rinsd
Its so nice these disucssions lead somewhere :eyes:

""Knuckled under" -- as in began abiding by the terms they agreed to when they sought a broadcast license."

As in ceased negative protrayal's of the Chavez govenrment for fear of losing it license. We saw a similar thing here after Janet Jackson's titty. US Government in the form of the FCC levies huge fine in hopes of scaring the rest.

"Coup or not, it's had a lasting effect on the news media. Venevisión, RCTV's main competitor as Venezuela's top-rated TV channel, appears to have escaped the government's ire for the time being. Once among the Chávez administration's favorite targets, Venevisión, led by media mogul Gustavo Cisneros, had opposed the government and championed the opposition's cause. Officials had previously alleged that Cisneros was a leading figure in the events surrounding the coup. But in June 2004, a private meeting between Chávez and Cisneros, mediated by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and the Carter Center, produced a ceasefire of sorts. "There was a mutual commitment to honor constitutional processes and to support further discussions between the government of Venezuela and the country's news media to ensure the most appropriate climate for this constitutional process," the Carter Center said in a statement. Venevisión subsequently removed opinion and news shows that were highly critical of Chávez, and it now focuses almost exclusively on entertainment programming. Today, government officials cite Venevisión as a model of behavior. Venevisión executives did not return messages from CPJ seeking comment on programming. "

http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2007/DA_spring_07/Venezuela_07/venezuela_07.html

Please not I am not crazy about the source on this but I have seen this story repeated time and again.

"So Venezuela is getting a public TV channel: so what? We have public stations here. Where is it written that broadcast frequencies must be reserved solely for those private entities rich enough to afford their own television network?"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=abZxsP7rSAWs&refer=latin_america

Chavez's government has financed scores of new community and national media friendly to its agenda, boosting its reach to include seven open television signals, two cable networks, and 28 community TV channels, along with 200 local radio signals, 110 websites, 40 regional and 4 national newspapers, Rosales said today.

"Our own laws allow for the same thing: taking private property for a compelling public purpose (or indeed for nonpayment of taxes)."

With due process and compensation. But nice try.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. nope, I don't agree with Chavez about everything...
He thinks that the US should accept the illegal aliens currently in our midst. I think he's all wet on that issue.

Re Venevision: they collaborated with an armed coup against their own democratically elected government, and now they've put themselves on a short leash in hopes of remaining on the air. Hmm.

Nope, not sure I see anything particularly tragic about that. They're damn lucky they're not in jail.

Chavez's government has financed scores of new community and national media friendly to its agenda, boosting its reach to include seven open television signals, two cable networks, and 28 community TV channels, along with 200 local radio signals, 110 websites, 40 regional and 4 national newspapers, Rosales said today.

Thing is, the majority of Venezuela's people are friendly to Mr. Chavez' agenda. That's what Chavez' detractors seem to be trying so awfully hard to forget. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a goodly share of Venezuela's public broadcast spectrum be devoted to serving the interests of the Venezuelan public. Why not?


Finally, RCTV did get due process under Venezuelan law.
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. pretty weak. looks like you're the one who has the double standard. nt
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. have you ever watched AlManar? I have, and if you support Chavez's actions, you should support shut
shutting down AlManar. it is actually *you* who have the double standard. personally, i lean against shutting down either one of them, and i haven't heard any anti-Chavez posters supporting the shut-down of alManar; i think you have simply created a straw man.
btw, alManar openly, explicitly, and repeatedly supported and outright encouraged suicide bombings against isreal; they used to have (probably still do) jazzy little memorial shows of suicide bombers, in which the bomber was made out to be a hero. they are always running militaristic music-video type 'public service' clips glorifying and inciting the 'resistance;' one of these songs contained the line 'my heart is a bomb,' as i recall. bottom line is this: if the Pentagon Channel, or let's say, Fox News, were to run programming even half as bad as alManar, everyone on DU would be outraged.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I've already dealt with similar commentary at length...
n/m
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent. Screw Hezbollah and al-Manar.
Edited on Mon Jun-04-07 04:48 PM by JohnLocke
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-04-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. well, thank you for sharing...
The point was really to illustrate why Venezuela's actions re RCTV are not censorship, but if you prefer to take home a different moral-of-the-story, then hey: why not?
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