There is no fucking "global war on terrorism"

[BushOut06]

Kudos to John Edwards for having the courage to say what needs to be said! Every few weeks now, it seems that the * administration brings out some trumped up "evil plot" to "rival 9-11". Bullshit. There are no terrorist cells in this country. Notice how most of the "terrorists" that we face are in their own country. They're fighting to drive us out of their lands. This notion that they "hate us for our freedom" is such utter bullshit. Remember, this is the exact same lie they told us about the Soviets, that "Evil Empire". Everytime they want us to hate a particular group, they tell us that they want to destroy us because of our freedom. If we didn't have a propensity to stick our nose in everyone's business, we wouldn't face such animosity worldwide. Maybe if we didn't have our fucking military in every corner of the world, poised to strike any country we desire, we wouldn't face such hatred. Notice how these "freedom hating terrorists" aren't going after free countries like Iceland or Japan.

Bring ALL of our troops home, from wherever they may be worldwide. Cut off foreign aid to countries that oppress their citizens. Then, and only then, will we start to realize the peace that we truly want.

[bryant69]

1. How do you know there are no Terrorist cells in this country?

Just curious as to the source of your information.

And for clarity, you want all foreign military bases closed? What if the host countries request that we stay?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Well, it is notable that the only terrorists that we've found in this

country who actually have weapons and explosives, living in hardened compounds with bunkers and watchtowers, are all RW fascist terrorists. The Islamic terrorists that we've found have all been hapless losers, unable to plan anything without an FBI informant telling them what to do, who have no idea how to get their hands on guns or bombs, which is surprising considering how many 15 yr old boys are able to build up arsenals before shooting up their high schools.

As for the bases, I was raised on military bases overseas. A lot of the locals make money off the servicemen, but in exchange they get drugs, prostitution, row upon row of seedy bars surrounding the bases. I suspect that if these 'host countries' held public referendums, we'd not have any bases anywhere other than possibly Diego Garcia and Antarctica. They don't want us there.

[bryant69]

7. So your evidence is of the common sense variety?

No hard evidence?

Bryant

[GliderGuider]

11. How do you get hard evidence that something doesn't exist?

[bryant69]

13. I suppose one could point to 9/11 to suggest that international terrorism

has in fact left it's mark on America. I suspect just bringing that up though will confirm my freeper status.

Bryant

[GliderGuider]

23. This discussion is about internal cells within the USA, though.

As far as i know, nobody denies that there are terrorists in the world. IMO the real questions are: are there any serious threats from "international" terrorists based in the USA, is the GWOT doing anything useful for global security, and are the liberties you Americans are giving up in the name of security being traded away wisely? There are legitimate reasons to answer "No" to each of those.

As you're doubtless aware, there are also a lot of unanswered questions about the true nature of 9/11 - answers that in the opinion of many might significantly reframe the whole "international terrorism" debate.

[bryant69]

26. I am aware that some people believe that President Bush caused or allowed 9/11 to happen

But I'm not a believer in that particular theology myself.

I would answer your questions, Maybe Yes, Probably not, and probably not.

Anybody who runs for President in 2008 will have to answer the question of what he or she will do to keep another 9/11 from happening; anybody who doesn't have an answer to that question will be at a severe disadvantage.

Bryant

[BushOut06]

16. Given the lack of activity, I'd say it's a far safer bet there are no sleeper cells

Where are all the suicide bombers? Why hasn't one single "Muslim extremist" walked into a crowded shopping mall and blown themselves and hundreds of others to smithereens? How come we haven't seen car bombs in this country? Those types of attacks would be much easier to carry out and would be more likely. If there were indeed all these "sleeper cells" around the country, surely we would have had at least one attack by now. Instead, we keep hearing about these massive plots being organized by Al-Qaeda's version of the Keystone Cops. Sorry, I'm just not buying it. It's simply a pathetic attempt by * to justify his assault on our civil liberties.

Do you believe that there are dozens of Cold War era Soviet suitcase nukes hidden in this country?

[Fovea]

8. On the subject of miltary bases

Will the host country pay all our expenses?
If not, a bientot.

Really, they don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us for our bombs, our policy and our imperialism.

Our military should be assigned to FEMA and be nearly revenue neutral. After all, when the Canadians invade, that will be a Federal level emergency.

Until then, let the airforce train with crop dusters and let the Army build levees for the ACoE. To defend America, a 200 ship navy is better than a 600 ship one.

[bryant69]

9. You have a wierd nickname to be suggesting that

we should hobble ourselves militarily.

Bryant

[BushOut06]

12. How exactly would we be crippling ourselves militarily?

Unless you mean 'crippling' our ability to launch offensive military operations anywhere in the world at a moment's notice.

Even pulling back all of our military forces to within US borders, we would still have the strongest military in the world. We do not need to have bases spread around the world. Our overseas bases are relics of a bygone era.

[bryant69]

15. More or less that's what I mean

Although I might use different words than you I suppose.

Bryant

[Fovea]

20. My nick and our military

The only realpolitik is sustainable policy and justice under law...

Everything else is a variant on Robespierre's Paris waiting to happen.

Our military/diplomatic policy is not realpolitik, it just claims to be while creating the next crisis for the advantage of the military-industrial-investing class. So I use the nick to re-assert a measure of control over the term.

We should slash our military because it has crippled our economy and has become the vehicle of imperialism and counter-imperialism (In this cycle it is the GWOT vs the Arab/Persian street). It has caused us to lose the art of diplomacy, economic competitiveness, and is rapidly becoming a tool for theocracy, economic hegemony and totalitarianism.

I guess that is why I think it should be given about a billion bucks a year total until another nation invades us, then a draft should be instituted. The world needs to de-militarize, but that won't happen with our gargantuan military footprint on the globe. Why? Because the rest of the world has, unlike our prez, learned from our misadventure in Iraq. What it has learned is that they cannot trust us.

In the 19th C. before the advent of nukes, there was actually some logic to having a large military. Today it creates bad policy and blowback.

We can use other countries military/police to protect American interests under the rule of law. Countries without the rule of law would thereby be devoid of international trade.

Further, the military is the world's single largest consumer of fossil fuels, IIRC. It is time to end America's imperial stance regarding the world, and get back to acting as a nation state among nation states--instead of using our big stick to mug small nations with goods we want cheap. We have installed or propped up some of the most nightmarish regimes in modern history. That is what our military does primarily around the world when it isn't actively bombing someone.

If there is a bear in the woods, we gave it the hunger to attack us when we took its food, and we can just as quickly create a world where the bear has no moral authority to do so.

Why? Because a bear hunt is best done by the whole village, rather than a lone hunter with a box of dynamite.

To me, that understanding is what realpolitik actually is. It is dealing with the reality of power and policy in the world rather than one's fantasy of how the world should work (I.E The New American Century). And the world does not long tolerate empire.

[The Stranger]

14. You seem to have the burden of proof reversed.

Prove that there are no flying pink elephants.

And just curious as to the source of your information.

[Javaman]

2. Exactly right. There is, however, a U.S. global war on oil or it's want of it. nt

[L. Coyote]

3. TX NEWS: The Sandinistas are coming, the Sandinistas are comming. Damn Commies.

Given their current lies leading to war, an examination of past lies is in order.
First, an academic article on the use of the rhetorical invective "terrorism."

==============================
The Use and Abuse of Terrorism
Dr. Bernard L. Brock, Wayne State University
Published in The Michigan Citizen, Dec. 1, 2002.
Online at: http://www.uwosh.edu/faculty_staff/palmeri/commentary/brock1.htm

Over a year after the destruction of the World Trade Towers and following the Republican election victory and control o
ver both houses of Congress, we can make some judgments regarding President Bush's use and abuse of the "War on Terrorism."

Terrorism, which means the "use of violence to intimidate or subjugate," has become a powerful, political umbrella
tying together otherwise unrelated people and/or events. Then, when coupled with a "war" metaphor, terrorism becomes
a powerful label uniting people to act emotionally and unthinkingly against a political enemy.

===============================
That always seems to be the ultra-right wing political enemies, enemies of the delusional, politically paranoid fraction of
the US political spectrum, a faction in need of psychiatric assistance before global bi-polar disorder really sets in for good.

One of my favorite whoppers is that the tiny nation of Nicaragua was an invasion threat to Texas. Reagan and George Bush
deprived the nation and the world of sleep with rhetorical worries that the terrorist cabal controlling the government
of Nicaraggua had to be militarily overthrown to prevent the invasion of Texas. REagan said Nicaragua, "is establishing
a base camp for Cuban-Soviet aggression on the North American mainland."

Here is a speech quote of Ronald Reagan, the beloved former liar-in-chief:

"Believe me, the liberals in Washington know what's at stake in this election. They know that this may well be their last chance to steer American politics way over to the left. They know that if we Republicans do well this November it's going to permanently alter the political landscape. ...."

"You see, on holding down taxes and spending, on appointing tough judges, on keeping up our defenses and dealing firmly with the Soviets, the liberal Democrat leadership knows the fundamental differences between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are beginning to sink in with the average voter. Take another issue that's come to the fore recently, an issue where partisan politics shouldn't even play a role. All of you know that a Communist government has taken over in Nicaragua. In addition to engaging in widespread repression of human rights, this government is establishing a base camp for Cuban-Soviet aggression on the North American mainland. But today there are about 20,000 freedom fighters who need our help in restoring democracy to that country. And a few weeks ago we won a crucial vote in the House of Representatives that will help them to do just that.is establishing a base camp for Cuban-Soviet aggression on the North American mainland.

"...I think you know I've mentioned in the past that Nicaragua is only a 2-day drive from the Texas border. And since I'm here now, I can explain: Don't mistake my reference to the Texas border. The Communist Sandinista regime in Nicaragua has made a lot of mistakes, but even they know better than to get themselves in a tangle with a bunch of Texans. Even with all the tanks and gunships from the Soviet Union, my guess is that the Sandinistas would make it about as far as the shopping center in Pecos before Roger Staubach came out of retirement -- -- teamed up with some off-duty Texas Rangers and the front four of the Dallas Cowboys, and pushed the Sandinistas down the river, out across the Gulf, and right back to Havana where they belong. Come to think of it, they don't even belong in Havana either, but don't get me started on that. But what's really at stake here is restoring our bipartisan consensus on national security issues. Believe me, you'll send that message to the liberals in Washington if you'll elect more Republican officeholders here in Texas. ..."
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1986/072386a.htm

=========

Next, from:

President Ronald Reagan and Nicaragua
excerpted from the book "Lying for Empire, How to Commit War Crimes With A Straight Face"
by David Model - Common Courage Press, 2005
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/Reagan_Nicaragua_LFE.html

"Coolidge, a proponent of the interventionist interpretation of the Monroe Doctrine, stated in an address to Congress in 1927 that:
I have the most conclusive evidence that arms and munitions in large quantities have been on special occasions.., shipped to the revolutionists in Nicaragua... I am sure it is not the desire of the United States to intervene in the internal affairs of Nicaragua or of any other Central American Republic. Nevertheless, it must be said, that we have a very definite and special interest in the maintenance of order and good government in Nicaragua at the present time .... The United States cannot, therefore, fail to view with deep concern any serious threat to stability and constitutional government in Nicaragua tending toward anarchy and jeopardizing American interests, especially if such a state of affairs is contributed or brought about by outside influence or by any foreign power. ..."

"The revolutionaries mentioned in the address were the Liberals, ... After negotiating with both the Liberals and Conservatives, Stimson achieved a peaceful settlement ... the agreement called for the stationing of American forces in Nicaragua to supervise the 1928 elections.
Sandino refused to sign the pact and denounced the U.S. for making Nicaragua an American protectorate. He organized an independent guerrilla force to wage war against the Nicaraguan government and the United States. American marines embarked on a six-year hunt for Sandino without success.
As American casualties increased in Nicaragua, the United States decided to withdraw the marines in 1933. ...."

======

Sound familiar? President Roosevelt said that "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch."

Three years later, Somoza took over the presidency with the assistance of the National Guard, establishing an oppressive, right-wing family dynasty which would rule Nicaragua for 43 years. Such was the result of US intervention to secure democracy in Nicaragua!!

=======
MORE: Are the Sandinista terrorists on the Texas border yet? Rhetoric to haunt Freeepers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x503712

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. The terrorist cells are patsies cherry picked

[valerief]

6. Fear O' Terrrrrrsts is War 101 stuff. It's a staple of Imperialism and all its wars. nt

[mike_c]

10. agreed 100 percent-- the WOT is a scam, an advertising jingle...

...for perpetual war for perpetual profits. It's U.S. imperialism. "We must control the world because otherwise they're a THREAT to us!"

:puke:

[leftofthedial]

17. but there ARE global terrorists

they are American repukes

The GOP is not only an international crime syndicate--the largest, most violent in history--they are a bona fide terrorist organization

[tblue]

24. So true

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. The "War on Terror" is a simple message for simpletons.

Much like "Remember the Maine", "The Red Menace", "The Domino Theory", or the "Threat of Jewish Bolshevism" used by a certain failed Austrian artist to stir up the people of Germany.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

[Tesha]

25. Are you suggesting that what we have is...

> The "War on Terror" is a simple message for simpletons.
> Much like "Remember the Maine", "The Red Menace", "The
> Domino Theory", or the "Threat of Jewish Bolshevism"
> used by a certain failed Austrian artist to stir up
> the people of Germany.

Are you suggesting that what we have is "Triumph of the
Won't (Get Fooled Again)"? Fox News certainly would have
made Goebbels proud!

Tesha

[dusmcj]

19. they're after us because we're overconsumptive pieces of shit

the 5% of the world's population that uses 25% of its resources. while we don't breed quite as rapidly as other parts of the world, we make up for it by consuming far more per capita than anyone else. (Anyone who thinks that's justified by our spectacular "productivity" needs mental realignment.) All flows from there, next stop is the oil fields of the middle east, after that Amazon deforestation to produce soy feed to beef cattle, and subsequently the sweatshops of China and after that the call centers of India. With field trips to sex traffickers in Serbia and migrant smugglers in Tijuana. The US because of its consumption habits leads the way in destroying what is valuable throughout the world in order to acquire worthless "stuff".

9/11 was a real event. So far we've lost 3000 at home and 3000+ in SW Asia in the latest round of struggle between ourselves and those who have a problem with the above behavior.

Zero sum thinking is for the stupid, but understanding the finite nature and availability of resources is not.

[tblue]

"'freedom hating terrorists' aren't going after Iceland or Japan." Good point.

I always thought 'they hate us for our freedom' was an asinine, simplistic argument tailor-made for suckers.

[dusmcj]

21. rad black muslims in upstate NY

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/paul-williams051107.htm

want guns & watchtowers ? this seems to fit the bill

(beware this link, Canadian websites spew more popups than our own)

[Jade Fox]

22. Bushco is now creating their own "terrorist plots".....

as this humorous (if it weren't so true) column describes, using Agent Provocateurs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nora-ephron/how-to-foil-a-terrorist-p_b_50474.html

[mhatrw]

27. Digby's BRILLIANT take on the fucking "GWOT"

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/limning-gwot-by-digby-i-have-long.html