Should adults be required by law to wear helmets when riding bicycles?

[BuyingThyme]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1045684

[LeftyMom]

1. Of course. Motorcyclists have to have helmets and people in cars must have seatbelts.

[Tarc]

3. The great state of New Hampshire

Still has no use for nanny laws. No adult laws for car seat belts, motorcycle or bicycle helmets.

We like it that way.

[LeftyMom]

5. Well, uhm, good for you.

I guess. We seem to be doing fine with our laws and our paved roads and flush toilets out here in Californny. :shrug:

[BuyingThyme]

6. Are there adult helmet laws in California?

[LeftyMom]

9. I have no idea. I just wear mine and don't worry about it.

We do have primary enforcement seatbelt laws for auto passengers of all ages in all seating positions, and a motorcycle helmet law for sure.

[TahitiNut]

15. Nope.

California
State Law ......... Passengers under 5 .... 1987
State Law ......... Riders under 18 ....... 1994
State Law ......... Scooters, skateboards,
In-line skates ........ 2003

http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm

[Solo_in_MD]

32. As a fellow Californian, we are a bit of a nanny state which I do not support

Helmet laws, seat belts or guns should be more of a personal choice

[rpannier]

16. Glad to see some places allow adults to make their own choices

Too many people out there trying to save you from yourself.

No fatty foods
No bungy jumping
No skydiving

the litany goes on.

People need to worry more about themselves and let other people worry about themselves.

[Crandor]

20. I don't care if people act stupid and horribly injure themselves as a result, but

the public should not be forced to pay for it through government-funded emergency rooms. Unless laws prevent that then I will have to favor the so-called "nanny" laws.

[hfojvt]

25. since when does the public pay my emergency room bills?

I've got a refund of some $900 coming.

[Greyhound]

42. And I don't think I should be forced to pay for useless, wasteful, and ineffective

DoD programs. I also don't have kids so I don't think I should be forced to pay for your schools, and I should only have to pay for the streets that I drive on, and I don't find the police to be of any use so I shouldn't have to pay for them either.:eyes:

You're opinion belongs on the site that shall not be named.

[ret5hd]

52. So what about skydiving? Or recreational horseriding? Skateboarding?

Ban them all, I say!

(not really)

[BlackVelvet04]

58. You forgot running with scissors. n/t

[hfojvt]

21. viva New Hampshire!!

Aren't the insurance companies blackmailing you though?

[napi21]

36. I only wish I could afford to live in NH, I'd put my house up for sale

tomorrow! I LOVE the attitude in your State! It sure would be wonderful to live amoung sane people for a change!

[wuushew]

7. What about urban areas with no sidewalks?

pedestrians must share the road with cars and bikes albeit on the opposite side.

I would argue that kinetically the speed of leisurely biking is not vastly greater than that of a brisk walk. Can the same be said of a motorcycle traveling 25-55+ mph?

[LeftyMom]

11. Urban areas with no sidewalks?

Do you mean rural areas? Urban areas have sidewalks, and around here they're taking out all the phone poles and stuff and putting in curb cuts even.

Jesus, you mean to tell me other places don't have sidewalks in town? :wow:

[wuushew]

24. Many towns have streets without sidewalks

in my home town there is a prominent one that is adjacent to the high school. It is fairly heavily trafficked, however drainage and elevation issues make widening the street difficult.

[uppityperson]

31. Many towns don't have sidewalks or even bike paths.

Sidewalks are becoming a thing of the past, which is really too bad.

[mconvente]

66. What difference does it make, really?

All the bicyclists around my neighborhood ride in the street anyway - or at least the adult tour-de-france wannabes! lol

[mwb970]

48. Surprisingly, there are many cities that lack sidewalks.

The city of Columbus just last week announced a major program to add sidewalks to many of our streets, mostly in places that you would think would already have them.

[uppityperson]

19. Bicycles, not motorcycles. Question is about bicycles.

I wear one, think it is a good law for kids but adults I think it should be left up to them, though being good role models for kids is good too.

[hfojvt]

30. she was just sliding down the slippery slope

Mom knows best, even when she's half your age.

[michreject]

45. Not in all states

Motorcyclists have to have helmets

I prefer to go without a helmet whenever I can.

[dysfunctional press]

71. most states DO NOT have helmet laws for motorcycles.

just as it should be.

[MadMaddie]

2. It should be their choice...

but their insurance premiums should also reflect that choice....

Most if not all bike riders are safe riders....it's the cars and trucks that kill them.

Skull on concrete or car hood not a good combination.

The Seattle area has had it's share of bike riders killed by inattentive drivers.

[Fovea]

4. Recumbent bikes don't really land you on your head

and in really hot weather I just clip my take-a-look mirror to my sunglasses and go.

[Bigmack]

8. My wife would be dead...

if she hadn't worn a helmet when she crashed.

Helicopter trip.... 9 days in a coma.... 2 months of rehab.... the whole thing.

Both of us are very experienced bikers.

"Nanny State" my ass! If I tap a biker with my car, and he has a helmet... everybody walks away.

I EXPECT my government to protect me from dumbshits who refuse to use proven safety equipment.

[Psephos]

12. I EXPECT my government to protect me from dumbshits who think liberty is obsolete

Nothing personal Bigmack, but you make your choices for your life; I'll make them for my life.

Per-year odds of death-causing injury when bicycling are 1 in 372,000.
Per-year odds of death-causing injury from cold weather are 1 in 371,000.
Per-year odds of death-causing injury from inhaling unchewed food into the breathing tract are 1 in 370,000.

http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_odds.htm

These three things have nearly identical death rates. Do you advocate government-enforced wool socks and down mittens during cold snaps? Do you support making it illegal to serve meat in restaurants unless it has been cut into nondangerous-size chunks?

Meanwhile, death risk per year from automotive accidents is approximately 1 in 6,000. Perhaps it's automobile occupants who should be forced to wear those helmets.

Nanny law advocates are actually not that concerned about the welfare of others, or they'd zero in on the riskiest situations first. But they don't. I have my theory about what drives nannyists to want to prescribe unto others how to live, and it doesn't involve much altruism.

I'm glad your wife chose to wear a helmet when biking, and that it made such a difference. I also wear protective gear when riding. By choice, of course.

[hfojvt]

29. BIG BROTHER SAYS

WEAR YOUR HELMET!!!

:o

[SOS]

57. Falling in bathtub kills 341 people a year.

If the government requires us to wear helmets in the tub, how will we wash our hair?

:shrug:

[emilyg]

23. Smart!!!

[hfojvt]

27. my head is undamaged by over 25,000 bicycle miles

I expect the government to protect me from dumbsh*ts who want to force me to spend my money on things it has been proven that I don't need.

[Crandor]

33. Well, if it's never happened to you, obviously it can never happen anywhere.

It's not like there are other people besides you in the world, right?

[hfojvt]

35. and they make their own choices

I'm not trying to force them to not buy a helmet or wear one. I said 'I' don't need it. Not 'nobody' needs it.

If I was gonna push for a law that would protect bicyclists and pedestrians, then I would outlaw weapons of mass destruction (otherwise known as automobiles). Think how safe we all would be if those murderous machines were not killing 40,000! Americans every year. That's an Iraq war every five weeks.

[Bigmack]

51. We do about 3500 miles a year...

... lots of experience...and my wife creamed in due to a sinkhole in the road.

25,000 or 250,000 miles, you can't protect yourself from random shit. A helmet just improves your chances.

Parachutists wear a spare 'chute, and I'll bet even the ones who've jumped thousands of times still wear one.

After our experience, I always just tell people that if they ride without a helmet, they need to be sure that somebody loves them enough to wipe their chin.... and their ass... the rest of their lives.

From another angle.... I want YOU to wear a helmet because if I'm driving a car and screw up and tap you off your bike, if you have a helmet on... well...you get up pissed off. No helmet... you could end up taking a dirt nap. And that's on me. Nobody should carry that kind of burden because somebody wants to feel the wind in their hair.

From yet another angle... it's the law. If you don't like the law, get it changed!

What's so terrible about wearing a helmet, anyway?

[mwb970]

49. On this basis, we should wear helmets while we drive as well.

Even experienced drivers get in accidents. If it saves one life....

[BlackVelvet04]

59. And just how do those dumbshits threaten you? n/t

[TahitiNut]

10. Here're the laws by state and locality ...

http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm

[BuyingThyme]

18. Thank you.

[napi21]

61. Thanks for that link! I just printed out the Ga. law pages, and

also confirmed it with another web site from our current Governor. The Cop who stopped my husband's co-worker was WRONG! The guy is in his 50's and the cop gave him a ticket for not wearing a helmet. The Ga. law says it's NOT MANDATORY for anyone 16 and over!

I have always been a strong supporter of the police, but lately, I've heard of quite a few who suddenly think they have a damn law degree!

[RufusTFirefly]

13. What about Europe?

I know the question is about adults, but in lots of places in Europe, kids don't typically wear helmets when they ride their bikes. Are their parents just reckless and irresponsible?? Stupid perhaps? I wear a helmet when I ride my bicycle and will continue to do so, but we must be mindful of how many of our laws and decisions are fundamentally cultural ones, despite our arguments otherwise. Don't believe me? Check out the percentage of circumcised males in the United States vs. those in other English-speaking "developed" countries, such as Canada, England, and Australia. The difference is dramatic. Are these other countries just backwards third-world ones, or do they just approach life differently than we do? Our justification for circumcision, just like our argument for wearing helmets while biking, is based on science, safety, and health. Or so we say. But ultimately it's a cultural one. In the past, the French smoked like proverbial chimneys, and yet they were 15th in life expectancy, while Americans, who've led the anti-smoking crusade, were 22nd. Why?

[BuyingThyme]

39. Not those helmets!

[RufusTFirefly]

41. LOL! Great answer!!! n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. Without wishing to start a huge diversion from the main topic

you say "Our justification for circumcision, just like our argument for wearing helmets while biking, is based on science, safety, and health. Or so we say. But ultimately it's a cultural one"

I've never heard that the American circumcision rate is "based on science, safety, and health". I always thought it was cultural, and openly acknowledged as such (and in the flame fests that develop when it's brought up on DU, I don't think I've seen anyone claim 'science' is pro-circumcision). I know recent studies have shown circumcision helping reduced AIDS rates in Africa, but that's a recent development. Is there really any scientific claim behind American circumcision?

[RB TexLa]

14. People get head injuries from accidents while walking

I'm sure the insurance companies would prefer us to wear helmets when walking.

[TahitiNut]

17. ... and steel-toed boots.

:eyes:

[BuyingThyme]

40. I, for a time, was required by law to wear steel-toed boots.

(While on the job.)

[Sukie1941]

22. and its MY choice

that no one who fails to follow the law and wear protective gear be insured. I pay into that.

[gravity]

26. Nope

I don't want to ride my bike down a block or in a park and have to be worried about being ticketed because I forgot to bring a helmet. I'm old enough to make my own choices.

[ComerPerro]

28. honestly couldn't give a shit, so I guess my vote is "no"

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Motorcycles yes, Bicycles is overdoing it a bit

[Dervill Crow]

37. I was surprised to see that it isn't required by law in Oregon.

I very rarely see an adult or child without a helmet riding a bike even though helmets are only required for children under 16.

[Onceuponalife]

38. I've gone back and forth on this over the years

And right now I say yes. I think you would be stupid to NOT wear one, unless you want to die?? Normally I would go with the libertarian argument and say government butt out, but then I think about all those kids who will be orphaned because their parents were boneheads. For the kids, y'all, for the kids.

[ret5hd]

53. Won't somebody think of the CHILDREN?!?!?!

[Onceuponalife]

64. I just noticed this is about bicycles??

I thought the issue was motorcyle helmets, not bicycles!!! As Emily Litella would say, That's very different! My bad! I would change my vote to no if I could...

[Greyhound]

43. Just a scam to benefit insurance companies. n/t

[Fox Mulder]

46. Absolutely not.

And people shouldn't be forced to wear seatbelts while driving. Also, motorcyclists should not be forced to wear a helmet if they don't want to.

[Edweird]

47. No. I wear one when downhilling/freeriding. But never on the street.

Seatbelts and motorcycle helmets should be optional as well.

[LWolf]

50. No.

The day a law is passed requiring me to wear a helmet to ride my horse, I will become an anarchist.

[cloudbase]

54. I'm pro choice.

I choose to wear a helmet whenever I ride my motorcycle. It's not up to me to tell you whether or not you should. That said, if you don't think that your head is worth putting inside a good helmet, then maybe you're right.

[karlrschneider]

55. Sure, when they're required to wear bulletproof vests while walking.

...

[donco6]

56. Nope. It's everyone's right to be an idiot. n/t

[bananarepublican]

63. Most republic*nts have been in motorcycle accidents whilst not wearing helmets! n/t

[jenmarie]

60. Should children under 5

be required to wear a helmet whenever they leave their home? That will be next. Cripes. I remember the days in CA before the motorcycle helmet law. We never rode on freeways, but riding helmetless in the Santa Cruz mountains is one of my best and favorite memories!

Five years ago, I had a rude accident on an electric bicycle. No helmet, extensive head injuries, broken jaw, etc. No one but me paid my medical costs, so I don't understand those who say we all have to wear helmets so they don't have to pay our medical costs? Where does that happen?

[Unvanguard]

62. Probably.

Sure, it seems absurd on its face to force people to do something for their own safety.

But on the other hand people do suffer severe consequences for not wearing a helmet... and many of those who do would probably, in retrospect, wish that someone had forced them to do it.

[deadcenter]

65. nope

I wear one when mountain biking, but not around town. I like the freedom of choice, and I genuinely dislike the government mandating what's good for me.

[Oldenuff]

67. What's next?

I suppose the next safety item the Big Insurance Companies will be pressuring for is rubberized sidewalks lest someone get a booboo.

What a crock of s***.

[mark414]

68. i want a government, not a nanny

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

70. It won't matter what you want

when you're unconsious with a cracked skull. Then the "nannies" will probably insist that doctors try to save your life, insured or not (reference Terry Schiavo). So on the average, bikers without helmets cost me money.

Is it really so demeaning to slap a brain-bucket on your head before you venture out?

:wtf:

[mark414]

74. it's not the wearing of the helmet that's demeaning...

i wear a helmet sometimes but it's not the job of the government to tell me what i do and don't have to do in order to take care of myself and my well being. i am a smart and able adult perfectly capable of taking care of myself. what's demeaning is when other adults try to tell me how to live my life.

and i'm not the reason insurance rates climb...greedy insurance companies are the reason insurance rates climb.

[SeattleGirl]

69. Yes. So what if you look like a dork.

You'd be even more dorky if you sustained a brain injury. Yeah, I know there are people who think it infringes upon their freedom, but let me ask you this: Is your freedom to not wear a helmet worth what it would do to your life, your family, and your friends if you sustained an injury that permanently altered your brain function?

Look, I'm a great advocate of an individual's freedome to be who they are, but sometimes, being told to do a certain thing is NOT a bad thing.

Fire away, peeps.

[MrSlayer]

75. Well maybe we should have to wear helmets in cars and on public transportation as well.

And why not add body armor to it so that internal injuries and broken limbs could be avoided?

[SkyIsGrey]

82. That is what seatbelts...

are for. Most people that sustain severe internal injuries are not wearing them. Air Bags also help as well, as long as you are wearing the seat belt. It also helps to keep you in your seat when You need to make a sudden maneuver, or if some circumstance make the vehicle do the same. Like this guy experienced

[dysfunctional press]

72. of course not. what a ridiculous question.

nt

[AllieB]

73. I have seen two bicycle deaths in my lifetime.

I grew up in the Boston area, and work in the city. There are bike lanes on certain streets, but many streets are too narrow, due to the fact that they were conceived of in the 17th century. The roads here are littered with potholes, the drivers are insane, and there are parked cars on both sides of most streets.

I have witnessed two cyclists die, once in my car on my way to work five years ago, and another time while I was on my bike on Mass Ave about 13 years ago. Both times, the cyclists weren't wearing helmets. Both died of brain injuries. I don't think helmets should be enforced in sparsely populated areas, but in densely-populated cities, they should. I never want to see what I saw on those two days again.

[Renew Deal]

76. No. They should wear one if they have a brain.

;)

[Hersheygirl]

77. Just bought a bike recently,

I am 60 and just ride for fun and exercise. I wear a helmut. Why? Because I want to see my grandchildren graduate and I don't want my family to have to take care of me if something happens to me. I just think it makes sense to protect yourself in all ways possible.

Recently PA repealed the motorcyle helmut law and you would not believe how many people have died recently in motorcycle accidents, it would make your head spin.

Personally I feel you need to put your family ahead of your personal freedoms. After all they are the ones that have to suffer if you are fatally injured and a helmut could have prevented it. This is just my opinion.

[Robb]

78. My take on helmet laws in general remains the same

I don't think they're necessary. But I also don't think states that have them are being nanny states.

They're a good idea. They won't always help; came up on a bicyclist just hit by a truck passing him. His legs were folded up under his body at the thighbone, so neatly I thought he mustv'e been running one of those wheelchair bikes. Of course, he had a helmet and died regardless.

But they never hurt. People can wear them or not, but I refuse to feel badly for someone with an injury that could've been prevented with little effort. Before I get on my moto, I spend three minutes suiting up. For me it's worth it.

Two-time moto champ at Pike's Peak once said to me if it's too hot for all the gear, it's too hot to ride. Plus, he pointed out, skin grafts are hot too, and they don't come off. ;)

[Hosnon]

79. Depends.

What percentage of bicyclists receive head injuries every year? What percentage of that number did not wear a helmet and would not have been injured (or would have been injured less) or killed had a helmet been worn?

If both numbers are low (<.01%) then I do not see a great enough benefit to be derived from mandating helmet use, even assuming universal health care. The state certainly can influence behavior through legislation but we, as Americans, seem to presume that the state should stay out unless necessary. Requiring bicyclists to wear helmets when there is little social benefit seems unnecessary, especially considering the fact that they are certainly still free to voluntarily wear them.

[wicket]

80. No

But any adult stupid enough to not wear a helmet probably doesn't belong in the gene pool anyway :evilgrin:

[SkyIsGrey]

81. Like I tell everyone that does not want to wear.....

a helmet. Your not wearing it because of Your lack of riding skills, it is for the persons lack of skills that pulls out in front of you. If that does not set in, or if someone says that helmets are dorky looking, I respond "It is better to look alive and dorky, than dead and stupid. Look he's dead, to bad he wasn't wearing one of those dorky helmets. Yea that was pretty stupid of him."
I voted yes, as much as I dislike apposing rules onto people, because sometimes ignorance just knows no bounds.

[Kingshakabobo]

83. I lean toward no.....BUT. A case can be made for bicyclists riding on public roads interacting....

....with motor vehicles. I live in Chicago where car-bike accidents are far too common.

My partner was recently involved in an accident when a junior Tour De France enthusiast decided to blow through(at high speed) a stop-sign and broad-side his car. Luckily the bicyclist wasn't seriously injured (he was wearing a helmet) The bicyclist was profusely apologetic and refused medical care.....No tickets issued.

Guess whose insurance got to pay for a new bike AND a "settlement" when the biker decided, 2 days later, that he needed to "get checked out" after his family "encouraged him to go to the ER." In other words, a relative informed him of the bag of money floating in the air...........Our attorney and our insurance agent both anticipated it before we were even notified of the claim. They said it wasn't worth the battle and easier to settle (pay off) the bicyclist because courts/juries hold car drivers to a higher standard and almost always side with the biker - no matter what.

My point is - bikers DEMAND to be treated like other vehicles on the road, almost ALWAYS refuse to obey traffic laws, and after an accident with a motor vehicle, DEMAND preferential treatment............they should AT LEAST be held to minimum safety standards when traveling on public roads with motor vehicles - just like cars.

Thank god the bicyclist was OK...... For his sake AND my partner's sake. It would have been a shame for a simple "fender bender" to turn in to a D.O.A./organ donor.

A couple years ago, Chicago went through a phase where they decided to ticket bicyclists for rolling through lights and stop-signs. It was very telling to hear all the whining when bikers were REALLY treated like motor vehicles.