The two murderers from the Jonesboro, AR massacre are walking free now

[bluestateguy]

This just bothers me so much. If you remember, in 1997 these two killers, aged 11 and 13, massacred four of their classmates and one teacher. Because they were "juveniles" they were held until they were 21 and now have clean criminal records. They don't even have to report to a parole officer, and they can mark "no" on a job application that asks if they have ever been convicted of a crime. Nor do they have to register their whereabouts with local authorities like sex offenders do. The second murderer, Andrew Golden was released a week and a half ago. Mitchell Johnson was released two years ago and has already been in trouble with the law again.

Nor does it seem like Johnson is all that remorseful: "I'm really sorry this had to happen. I done what time the judge gave me to do. I done my sentence," said Johnson, who lived in Fayetteville at the time. "Was it a fair sentence? In my opinion, no, it wasn't and I'll agree to that, but I am free. My whereabouts is nobody's business but my own. What I do is my business."

He added: "Society is cruel, you know, especially towards a murderer, you know. It's just something I live with everyday."

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/05/25/news/052607aredshoot.txt

Two un-remorseful murderers are walking the streets somewhere in America. That should concern us all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. "That should concern us all."

They were eleven and thirteen.

Now they're grown men. I'm not concerned.

[joeunderdog]

67. I understand your rationale, but not your conclusion.

Yes they were young and not adult criminals. But what they did took a bad core--it was no "youthful indescretion." There is a FAR greater likelihood of these men committing violent crimes than most troubled youths.

Be concerned. Be VERY concerned.

[depakid]

2. So you'd prefer to lock up pre-teens for life?

That's almost as sick as what those kids did....

[bluestateguy]

3. Yes, life in prison would have been the appropriate punishment

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Did you read the body of that post?

I think you should.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. I worry about them being free, not because of "punishment," but for other people's safety

People that commit mass murder at 11 and 13 are just too fucked up. They have to be held in a mental institution. And, if released, be under constant surveillance.

Punishment for punishment's sake ("they have to suffer") is a completely useless concept.

[AngryAmish]

112. Look what happened when they let Michael Myers out.

[ComerPerro]

6. You honestly believe that locking murderers away for life is as "sick" and wrong as

shooting up a school and the murder itself?

WTF is wrong with you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. In both cases, you're maliciously destroying a life.

Seems comparably to me.

[ComerPerro]

10. You're right, its better that they have a clean record, completely clear.

I mean, sure, they killed a lot of people, but who hasn't, right?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. I haven't.

I haven't killed anybody, nor am I so insecure that I need to feel macho by advocating draconian punishment of juveniles.

[ComerPerro]

12. not advocating draconian punishment, but not advocating your "no harm no foul" position either

Hell, even 19 year olds who have sex with 17 year olds get more stict punishments than these murdering fuckheads.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. And that's stupid too, ain't it?

But seriously, which right-wing pundit is the one blathering about these two getting out of prison?

This has all the hallmarks of a five minute hate.

[ComerPerro]

15. heh, just as I posted

lol, oh well

[depakid]

16. 11 and 12 year olds?

Sorry, but WTF?

....that's SICK- and, unfortunately, quite the American attitude these days.

[ComerPerro]

17. Damn, I should have gone on a massive killing spree when I was 11.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Exactly what point are you trying to argue?

You're not being very clear.

[ComerPerro]

23. I am just wishing I had done more when I was under 18, seeing as I'd have a clean slate

As long as I didn't do drugs, that is...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Do you wish you'd spent eight years in prison?

[ComerPerro]

29. that's barely anything for the crime they committed

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Eight years is a tremendous amount of time in prison.

Especially when you're an eleven year old kid.

[ComerPerro]

31. people who do less spend longer in prison.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Adults who commit second degree murder get about that long.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Speak for yourself.

"Children who murder should be set free"

What part of "eight years in prison" are you having problems understanding?

"anyone who so much as looks at someone under 18 should be beaten to death."

Are you trying to advocate that 19 year olds who have sex with 17 year olds shouldn't get (harshly) punished? Because you're going about it an unusual way.

[ComerPerro]

39. what I am trying to say is most people here are only pretending to care

the more pious they pretend to be, the less likely it is that they ACTUALLY give a shit about anything

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Heh.

The thing I don't give a shit about are the people who think we should all be afraid of the two remorseless killers running amok in the streets.

[ComerPerro]

42. thats true, gun nuts with a history of mass murder are nothing to be afraid of

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. Are you afraid of them?

Really?

[ComerPerro]

46. nope, fortunately for me they aren't in my area and probably won't be anytime soon

so I guess that's all that matters.

I'm not in Iraq, either, so insurgents are nothing to worry about.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. So then you're a NIMBYist?

[ComerPerro]

49. I think I made my point clear. Spin it all you want.

By your standards, they aren't in my area, so I guess I don't really have to care.

[TheMadMonk]

104. Not affraid of them, Affraid for the people around them.

That's my take on this mindless bunfight.

IMNSHO those boys should have been committed to a secure juvenile psych facility for attempted rehabilitation. At 21 they should have undergone extensive independent evaluation to determine their fitness to reenter society. And then subject to a regimen of decreasing observation and re-evaluation over the next decade or so.

[karlrschneider]

56. I will give you 7 to 2 odds one or both of them commits another felony soon.

If they show up around here, they won't be showing up anywhere else.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

80. You'll shoot them point blank, unprovoked, let's say, if you see them eating at a McD?

[karlrschneider]

82. No. I would wait until they finished eating.

...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

108. You ARE serious, aren't you?

This isn't like all the other thousands of grisly murders that happen every day to you, is it? It's personal. Somebody you know got killed. Right?

[treestar]

111. Do we know they are remorseless?

This question is something none of us here really understand, we'd probably have to do a lot of research, so condemning the system out of hand is premature. It is possible that since they were 11 and 13 at the time, that is so young that they could be rehabilitated, and may have been treated in the past 8 years. Surely they should spend a life in therapy, but there's no reason necessarily to believe they will kill again. Any more than an adult who gets out after 20 years due to a murder undertaken as an adult.

They are similar to the insane - when you are a child, you are not deemed competely capable of rational judgment. I believe generally that between 7 and 14, it is presumed you are incapable of forming an intent to kill, though evidence that you did could be presented. No doubt not one of us on this thread is going to go and find out how the case turned on that issue.

[cherokeeprogressive]

93. Five Murders, maliciously committed...

Let's say for the sake of argument that the four classmates were boys. Given a life expectancy of 72 years for men, I'd say they robbed those classmates of approx. 240 years of life, not to mention the years of grief they've caused countless friends and relatives.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the teacher was male, and 40. He lost approx. 32 years of expected life, not to mention the years of grief caused to countless friends and relatives.

They robbed five people of 272 expected years of life. 272 years. Yep. That sounds like a fair sentence to me.

[depakid]

20. Ridiculous assertion

First of all- as any psychiatrist will tell you- most 11 and 12 year olds aren't at the stage of cognitive development to have formal operational reasoning- which is one of the reasons we have juvenile laws (as opposed to laws designed for adults).

Hell, if many Americans had their way, the state should have gone ahead and executed them. No logical reason not to.

[ComerPerro]

22. when I was 11, I knew it was wrong to murder people.

[depakid]

25. Knowing it's wrong is one thing

being able to fully comprehend the act with an adult mental state is quite another.

In addition, it's not like these kids walked- they've spent 10 years in incarceration-

[ComerPerro]

26. Well, god damn, 10 years, that's worse than murder, isn't it?

[depakid]

35. We'll have to agree to disagree

You can take the draconian American approach.

I'll go with the rest of the civilized world....

[ComerPerro]

36. yeah, like you honestly give a shit.

[depakid]

43. I give a shit about the system

Unlike many Americans- who can't see beyond the end of their noses.

What happens in one particular case with bad facts influences tens of thousands of others with different facts.

Understanding that is called "abstract thought," something that kids (and all too many adults in this country) lack-

[ComerPerro]

45. I'm sure you do. Either that or you get off seeing yourself as a protector of these two killers

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ComerPerro]

50. no, I can just see through your bullshit. I am guessing you don't really believe in anything

[fishnfla]

59. bingo

:thumbsup:

[karlrschneider]

61. Why exactly are you defending these fucking monsters?

I don't get it...

[uppityperson]

66. They planned this, gathered equipment, executed it, and didn't comprehend the act?

You seriously believe that they didn't know what they were doing? Of course they didn't have an "adult mental state", like they do now I guess, but really, "they were young and immature and didn't know the effects"? If they could plan this and pull it off they knew what they were doing.

And I don't have an answer as to what should happen to them, except they need following, a long long probation (not sure if that is the right word) but someone in law enforcement to keep an eye on them for a long time. I don't see that that would be excessively intrusive on them.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. Maybe they should have to register with the police wherever they choose

to live just like the sexual offenders out there. They did, after all, murder innocent people...and it wasn't self defense.

[mike_c]

7. there are good reasons for treating juvenile offenders this way....

I'm glad they have the opportunity to start fresh. I hope they take advantage of it and make better lives for themselves.

Exacting further revenge is not going to bring back the dead or help anyone.

[Aristus]

9. "Society is cruel, you know, especially towards a murderer, you know."

Not if you're in elective office. Then you get off scott-free.

[Mike Daniels]

52. Society is cruel....

No less cruel than these kids were for what they did.

The killers should suck it up and be grateful that they get to live some fashion of a life.

[devilgrrl]

14. Dang, if only they were smoking marijuana, they'd never see the light of day.

:sarcasm:

[yardwork]

18. They were so young. It doesn't excuse what they did, but....

What in the world happened?

From the link above:

On March 24, 1998, the boys skipped school and stole several rifles and semiautomatic pistols from the home of Golden's grandfather. Dressed in camouflage, Johnson, then 13, waited as Golden, then 11, pulled a fire alarm at Westside Middle School. As the students streamed out of the building, Golden and Johnson opened fire.

Killed were students Natalie Brooks, 11; Paige Herring, 12; Stephanie Johnson, 12; and Britthney Varner, 11. Shannon Wright, an English teacher, died while shielding another student from a pair of rifle shots. The boys wounded another 10.

At their trial later that year, Johnson admitted his guilt. Golden, 12 at the time, gazed straight ahead with wide-open eyes during the trial, looking down occasionally during emotional testimony. A judge found him guilty after his lawyer acknowledged his crimes, but Golden himself said nothing.

[Beaverhausen]

89. That is chilling

I sincerely hope these boys got some serious mental health counseling.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. Mitchell Johnson has already been re-arrested on carrying a prohibited weapon and

drug possession. He was in the company of a third 'child murderer', Justin Trammell, who was convicted as a juvenile in Benton County of killing his father with a crossbow in 1999. Justin will go on trial for 'terroristic threating' June 20.



http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=6433773

[ComerPerro]

24. guess we should celebrate him exercising his 2nd Amendment rights

[Maddy McCall]

88. Christ.

:(

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. It doesn't concern me in the least bit...they SHOULD be released

Only a demented and sick society would lock an 11 year old up for life, and only demented and sick people contemplate that sort of punishment.

I'm more worried that YOU'RE walking the streets (and voting) with that kind of pathology, to be quite honest.

[sinkingfeeling]

51. OK, while I agree that SOME kids should not be held accountable for their crimes committed at a

young age, there should be some type of registration of their whereabouts after release and some type of mandatory treatment. Out of these 3 Arkansas young men, two have already been re-arrested (one multiple times) in less than 24 months from their release.

I'm more concerned about Justin Trammell living within a few blocks of me. Here's his record since age 15.

http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2007/01/westside_shooter_arrested.aspx

Johnson's companion was convicted of killing with his father with a crossbow Sept. 26, 1999 when he lived in Bentonville. The 15-year-old's father had confronted him when he tried to take the family car to run away and the boy reportedly threw a knife at his mother when she tried to call police.

In October 2002, Trammell was released from custody and placed on probation. In June 2004, Trammell was arrested by Fayetteville police for public intoxication and possession of a fake ID while attempting to enter a bar. His parole was revoked. Released on parole again, he was arrested in September 2004 for domestic abuse on his son's mother. A judge ruled that he had violated his probation, but found that he couldn't be sent to adult prison. Instead, he was sentenced to the Division of Youth Services’ serious-offender program for 18- to 21-year-olds in Dermott. He was released when he turned 21.

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=6433773

Trammel, 22, is accused of threatening to kill Chelsea Jabusch, the mother of his three-year-old son on December 29. (2006)

Trammel allegedly described to Jabusch how he would kill her: He was going to put a gun in her mouth and blow off her head off as she slept.

"As of now he's charged with one count of terroristic threatening in the first degree, which is punishable up to six years in the Arkansas Department of Correction," Dorett said.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Oh

Drinking on a fake ID and two domestic abuse incidents. Sounds pretty common (unfortunately).

Now, if this guy had never committed the first act, would you contemplate sending someone to prison for six years behind that? Would you suggest that they be registered? I don't think so.

[sinkingfeeling]

62. Let's see, he tried to kill his mother, but shot his father who was defending her instead. Then he's

been arrested for physical abuse of the mother of his child and is now in jail because he threatened to put a gun in her mouth and blow her brains out. I guess Justin is just misunderstood. Maybe he can move to where you live after his next release from prison.

I'll lay money that one or more of these 3 'innocent' kids will kill again.

[karlrschneider]

64. Yeah, now I see you're exactly right. Kids will be kids.

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

69. Only a naive and foolish society would let an unrepentant violent murderer go free

And unsupervised, regardless of age.

[Swede]

32. There is a reason that children are treated differently than adults.

Their brains have not fully developed yet.

[vickitulsa]

38. This whole case was extremely upsetting from the git-go,

and I too am very uneasy thinking about these two remorseless killers walking free and with no reporting requirements.

As I recall from the time those boys killed their classmates and a teacher (who saved one student by sacrificing her own life to shield the student from the gunfire), Arkansas law did not permit any worse punishment of the boys than what they received -- to be confined to a juvenile facility until they were of legal age and then be set free with no criminal records or monitoring.

I suspect their lawyers made sure Johnson and Golden and their parents understood right away that nothing further would happen to them if they "behaved themselves" while in the juvenile facility until their release dates.

In 1997, these killers set off the school alarm system purposefully, then waited a short distance away with rifles, behind cover, to have easy targets when the building was evacuated and everyone filed outside. It was a cold-blooded ambush, plain and simple, obviously well thought out and planned.

The young murderers had stolen the weapons they used from one's grandfather, I believe.

I heard they could even be given new names to start fresh with, too, so I don't know what kind of "cruelty" society could show these two. No one even knows who they are now!

There's just something so very wrong about the outcome of this case, imo. We probably won't hear any more about the killers until and unless they do harm to someone else.

Didn't Arkansas change that ridiculous law after these killings and the outrage many felt about the insufficiency of the punishment for Johnson and Golden?

[depakid]

41. "insufficiency of the punishment"

I guess that begs the question of what would be sufficient punishment....

which begs a further question about what the purposes of the criminal justice system are and should be.

Are punishment and/or deterrence the only goals?

[vickitulsa]

53. I consider their punishment insufficient for the taking of five lives,

and the fact that they were released with absolutely NO monitoring requirements or criminal records leaves society completely vulnerable to future crimes they might commit.

I also have a hard time accepting the "children's brains are not developed" reasoning for letting them off so easily in a case where the boys clearly planned ahead and set up an excellent ambush in order to kill their classmates from afar, protecting themselves from harm as they did their murdering.

Honestly, to me, all these cases of child killers are extremely disturbing. I have a background in psychology and have studied a number of the "kids who kill;" and certainly the increasing number of such acts committed by children says something about our culture.

But as for the purposes of the criminal justice system in America, I have some personal experience with it due to my ex-husband's getting caught dealing small amounts of pot. The cops arrested me too, and I did hard time.

I can assure you that, if "American justice" ever did have rehabilitation as a goal for those convicted of crimes, that certainly is not the focus nowadays. Probably more effort is made to rehabilitate kids than adults, but even then I doubt child offenders are provided "enough" in the way of education and treatment aimed specifically at making sure they don't re-offend upon their release.

Any country that locks up and warehouses non-violent pot smokers or other drug addicts, sometimes for life, in numbers that run over a million now, while violent criminals are paroled because the prisons are filled up with drug users, is pretty screwed up, imo.

Not to mention the way "white collar" criminals usually get away completely with the harm they do to their victims or else do damn little time for it.

Our criminal justice system in this country is broken, and represents massive failure, as far as I can see. I think many people agree with that conclusion, yet very few are willing to tackle this huge problem. For a long time it has been "out of sight, out of mind." People don't want to think about such an unpleasant subject -- especially when they know what sorts of horrors go on in our prisons, as most people do.

How can we reasonably expect that prisons are working to rehabilitate criminals when those same facilities are hotbeds of violence and abuse among inmates and some guards? How often do we hear jokes from people wishing the fate of endless rapes upon certain inmates or those they hope are inmates someday?

What many just don't understand is that the United States is now number one in the world for numbers of its citizens incarcerated -- and that means a lot of folks are enduring the hell of prison life. I believe people would be shocked, as I was, at just who is locked up behind those walls, because it's not always who you'd think.

The more this trend continues, the more likely it is that innocent people are tossed into the cages along with the guilty. Prison life in America does not rehabilitate, imo, and I don't think the threat of incarceration deters much crime, either.

All that leaves is punishment -- and the warehousing of bodies and souls in a nightmare environment. What sort of harvest will we reap for that in the end? I don't know, but I don't see how it could be good.

What angers me most of all is that if we simply stop locking up non-violent drug offenders, we would have the resources available to provide extensive and exceptional rehabilitation to the ones who need it most, in order to protect society.

What's going on in our prisons now is something far from that.

[TheMadMonk]

105. Mate, I don't care how many times you, or others, might have said that before.

That post needs it's own discussion.

[uppityperson]

60. Me too. The argument "but they were young and didn't know/understand" is moot

If they could plan this as they did, pull it off as they did, they knew, they understood. Lots of uneasiness about the whole case.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Are You Friggin Serious? Jesus Christ I Feel For These Kids. I Think Their Sentences Were Harsh

enough already!

They were 11 and 13. How much do you want them to suffer for godssake? You think 11 and 13 yr olds are developed and mature enough to truly understand the consequences of such things? Of course it was horrible what they did but jesus they were so young and of childish mind at the time. 10 years is enough time served. They missed out on a HUGE part of their childhood and lord knows they needed some rehabilitation for their actions. But to resent them this much for something they did at 11 and 13 this much later? I find your post to be amazingly cold and inappropriate.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

72. You're Either Kidding Or Responding So Melodramatically That A Response Isn't Even Warranted.

I'm not sure which.

[uppityperson]

73. So is this a non-response?

:shrug: I wonder if karl has a personal connection with them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. No, It's An Interim Inquiry LOL

If the former choice above, I might respond simply. If the latter choice, I would cease to respond at all based on the ludicrousness of the reply. But I didn't know which type it was; the reply simply type or the doesn't warrant a response at all type. :)

[karlrschneider]

75. Send them over to my neighborhood. You will find out what I am saying.

...

[uppityperson]

76. karl, have you a personal connection with these 2 people or their actions?

Edited to add, my condolences to any that do. I cannot imagine how I would feel if my jr were murdered like these guys did.

[karlrschneider]

81. No, not these particular two. A similar pair who killed my friend.

It has been a long time but I have not forgotten.

[uppityperson]

84. Thank you for your reply, makes what you write make more sense

I cannot imagine how it must be. Thank you for replying and I don't know what else I can write that won't sound trite.

[karlrschneider]

85. Thanks. I know I'm often perceived as an uncompassionate ass

and maybe I am but I know how I feel and I really do say what I mean and mean what I say. It's just part of my charm, I suppose. ;-)

[uppityperson]

86. Each of us has things that make us as we are, and others won't know until we share it.

You responses seemed a bit much, figured there was more to it than what was obvious. Yeah, many of us can be viewed as uncompassionate asses, but many of us have reasons for it also. Peace to you.

[karlrschneider]

87. Peace to us all, hopefully! Maybe it's a pipedream but it's better than nothing, nu?

:-)

I rather like (the fictional) Michael Valentine Smith's take on dealing with malfunctioning persons. ;-)

[Forkboy]

92. You sound as dangerous as they do.

Oh you're just another shit talking tough guy behind a keyboard.

Pretty sad either way.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. I wonder what will happen if he casually meets an innocent person that has the bad luck...

...of looking like one of those killers he hates so much.

Abyss, looking, etc.

[JVS]

77. Would this be incarcerated until 21 then executed, or executed at 11 and 13?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

110. OK, that makes it official. You're fucking nuts. -nt

[TheMadMonk]

106. If they are comprehensively diagnosed as unredeemable...

...when they have reached the age of 21, then perhaps execution at that age might be warranted. Of course intensive psychiatric treatment in the interim would be a must.

With that particular Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads, they would certainly be motivated to participate in their treatment. They should at least learn to mimic acceptable behaviour, and we can always hope the habit sticks.

[mitchum]

103. Karl, I'm in complete agreement with you and could fucking care less...

if some of the more-understanding-than-thou around here think I have a draconian attitude.
Why? Because I do advocate draconian measures for such monsters.
Golden will certainly kill again.

[Beaverhausen]

90. What about the childhoods of the 5 kids they murdered? And 13 is definitely old enough to know

what you are doing.

Jesus, read the facts of the murders (see post #18), then see if you "feel sorry for them."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

100. Just For The Record, My Post Was Supposed To Be Sarcastic.

It was a little poke on my part for all the times the same sort of thing was said to me for those even worse on death row.

I don't believe these kids deserve to be put to death like a poster dramatically claimed above, but based on the nature of their crimes they should've been transferred directly to prison for a minimum of another 10 years after they became adults. At least the 13 yr old anyway.

But I'll definitely use the sarcasm smiley next time. :)

[smirkymonkey]

101. You FEEL for them?

They brutally murdered 5 people in cold blood - and I am sorry, but "innocent children" are not capable of that kind of planning - I knew what the hell I was doing at the age of 11 - and you FEEL for them?

You talk about them missing out on their childhoods with no mention of their victims and THIER childhoods, THEIR LIVES??? I find that amazingly cold and inappropriate.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. LOL I Really Thought The Sarcasm Would Shine Through But It Didn't.

See this post below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1055682&mesg_id=1057754

I was kinda poking back at the comments I'd get for thugs on death row. Though I don't support the DP I wouldn't really give the thugs sympathy either, so I'd get skewered. So the post above was kinda mocking that concept. Course, I wrote it quickly while the wife was calling for me to get upstairs already for dinner, so I had bad judgment in not putting that good ole sarcasm smilie in. :)

[rucky]

57. If the prison system were designed to reform people...

there wouldn't be a cause for concern. But considering these kids have spent most of their lives in a broken institution, I don't blame people for being fearful/angry, etc.

[slackmaster]

58. Sounds like they don't do a good job teaching grammar in the joint

I done what time the judge gave me to do....

...My whereabouts is nobody's business but my own.

:argh:

[Jed Dilligan]

63. Kind of a Catch 22

If juvenile prisons were really places of rehabilitation, I'd be okay with this. The way things are, these kids probably got worse, not better, during their time inside. Going to juvenile prison will turn almost any kid into a career criminal. Between the gang violence and the sexual abuse, what other outcome can we expect? If they went in as sick little murdering fucks, they are coming out as bionic turbo sick overgrown murdering fucks.

[bamacrat]

65. I think most people deserve a second chance.

Considering they were 11 and 12 they should be given one, but should already have two strikes against them. If they commit another crime they should be in jail for life, also it is insane they dont even have to report to a parole officer. They will probably move out of Arkansas because Im sure most people in Arkansas would recognize their names.

[uppityperson]

70. Seems like they should have to report to a parole officer at least.

Keep an eye on them somehow.

[Supersedeas]

71. Pledge of allegiance to the all mighty gun...no further questions please

[jilln]

78. I bet when you started this thread you had no idea how passionately people would defend those kids.

It's hard to tell if Johnson is remorseful from that quote or not. Reading it with a southern accent and knowing how people talk around here, it might be an admission of remorse.

More than the amount of time they received, I'd like to know about their "rehabilitation". I don't think there's any point in "punishment" if they really have learned right from wrong in this time, but if they haven't they shouldn't be let out to live among the rest of us.

[Selatius]

91. They were 11 and 13. What do you advocate? Life in prison with no parole?

[mitchum]

94. Golden is a goddamn SOCIOPATH who WILL KILL AGAIN

[Maddy McCall]

97. I'm just beginning to read about this case....

and I find it intriguing, if uncomfortable to read about.

Can you provide some links for me to read? Thanks. :hi:

[fishwax]

95. That seems in line with how the justice system ought to work for juvenile offenders

I certainly don't think an 11-year-old should be tried as an adult. Some sort of parole/supervision would seem appropriate, though.

[Maddy McCall]

96. There is something fundamentally wrong when kids this young...

did what they did.

What does a kid have to go through to morph into a murderer? I just can't imagine the psychological problems that led them to commit the horrendous crime they committed. This isn't like manslaughter for accidentally killing someone on a drunken joyride. This was a crime that was well-planned and executed.

But what is the alternative to letting them out of jail when they've done their time? They can't be held forever. Even most adults who murder are given a second chance.

Still...no doubt that the adult that emerges from the penal system will be even more bent than the child murderer who went in.

As another poster pointed out above, one of the boys (now an adult, I presume) has already been picked up for carrying a weapon while in the company of another child murderer.

What's the solution in a civilized society? I haven't a clue.

I guess it comes down to a discussion of individual rights vs. the greater good.

This is something that I'll have to give a lot of thought to, before I can opine on it. Very uncomfortable thing to contemplate.

:(

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

98. "Golden's grandfather died in January."

So what?

They should have been punished properly.

[uppityperson]

99. I don't see punishment nec but being monitored for safety of all

themselves and others. Why not parole?

[TheMadMonk]

107. Becasue parole would defeat automagic clean slate all juvies are handed,

Drugs and sex offenses (real and fabricated out of whole cloth) excepted.

[Blue_Tires]

113. only time will answer the question

will they turn around their lives or revert back to violent behavior against innocent victims??

iirc, the state of arkansas did give them the maximum penalty on the books, which at that time was very weak in comparison to the crime...i can't see a judge being lenient the next time one of them shows up with a serious offense