Ford beats Toyota in quality rankings

[Fountain79]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/

DETROIT - People might have to stop making all those jokes about the quality of Ford’s cars — the ones that say Ford stands for “Found on Road Dead” or “Fixed or Repaired Daily.”

Now, it could be “Fixing Our Reputation Daily.”

Ford Motor Co. supplanted Toyota as leader of the pack in J.D. Power and Associates’ annual initial quality rankings released Wednesday, grabbing more individual awards than any other automaker for the first time since 1998, when it tied for the top spot.

[ShortnFiery]

1. I find this very hard to believe.

:shrug: My Toyota Camry was 100x more reliable than my Ford Mustang. :(

On Edit: My BAD = they're talking QUALITY not RELIABILITY. Well, the second has all my attention. I don't like to be broken down with my Found on Road Dead (FORD!) or Fix or Repair Daily, FORD MUSTANG at midnight and four miles away from a State Penitentiary.

[NMDemDist2]

3. Mazda is making all their little cars and trucks

so I imagine reliability is up in those models

My Mazdas were the best cars I ever owned :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

6. Thank you. That sheds a little light on the issue.

:hi:

[billbuckhead]

21. Not close to true, in fact the Mazda truck is a rebadged Ford Ranger

The Focus is the last generation European Ford Focus. The Fusion/Milan/Zepyhr/Edge is based very loosely on the Mazda 6 platform but has Ford motors and trannys. The Five Hundred, Freestyle and Montego are loosely based on a Volvo platform. All these cars are built in Ford factories in the USA and Mexico.

[NMDemDist2]

35. so Mazda only makes Mazda these days? hmmm n/t

[billbuckhead]

46. Ford owns Mazda and they share parts and design overhead

Today's Mazda trucks sold in the USA are just Ford Rangers with Mazda grilles, once it was the reverse. The Mazda Tribute compact SUV is also a Ford Escape with Mazda badging. Mazda cars sold in the USA today are distinct from Fords but share parts.

[blondeatlast]

4. Exactly; I'll go with my history. My Toyota (and previous Honda)

logged hundreds of thousands of miles with virtually no major repairs whatsoever.

[malaise]

15. Ditto

Love my Toyota.

[Clark2008]

28. My Mustangs have all been SUPURB

While my friend's Camry was a POS.

Guess it depends on where you bought it.

[StarryNite]

52. Mine too!

I love 'em! We have one Ford pickup that has over 300,000 miles on it and it still runs like a champ and doesn't even burn oil. And I really love our old 82 Bronco. It's like part of the family.

[RebelOne]

53. I own a Ford Taurus and I love it.

It's the second one I have owned.

[TommyO]

64. Why do you find it hard to believe?

Toyota quality isn't what it was ten years ago, and both Ford and GM have made amazing quality strides.

[blondeatlast]

2. JD Power--bought and paid for. I don't trust them any more than I do

FMC itself.

[KoKo]

5. Ford used to have the BEST RIDE in the Business...I had one of them

and I would agree...but I can't imagine with all the CUTS to Ford that they have any "quality" left.

We've had Toyotas....and only the ride in our Avalon surpassed my Ford Villager. That Villager (mini-van) rode like a Dream with no wind noise and cruised over bumps that my Chrysler (Town & Country) just can't seem to deal with. But...My "T&C" has had better "sevice record" than my beloved VILLAGER.

:shrug: I wouldn't know what car to buy today ...but I'm a "Comfort and Ride" finatic along with "gas mileage watcher. :shrug:

[Buck Laser]

11. Best ride? I dunno, but the handling is lousy

I had a series of Fords in the 60s, and occasionally drive rental Fords when I travel, but I always return them dissatisfied. I always have the feeling when I'm driving a Ford product that I'm herding it down the road, darting this way and that. I feel much more comfortable with the handling of Honda and Chrysler products. But their quality control may be fantastic now. The Mazda I owned in the 70s was a fine car.

[AX10]

7. Ford is getting alot of help from subsidiary Mazda.

As another poster noted, that has helped Ford with their quality.
Which is fine by me. Ford learned something. GM could learn alot too.

[WinkyDink]

8. I switched to Toyota the day my Ford stopped dead in the street, one day after being

on the "Sure-kill" (Schuylkill) Express (Philly).

[KoKo]

14. I used to live up there...and I wouldn't want my car to be Dead on that one....

:scared: Second worse is the DC Beltway around Maryland... :scared: :scared:

[PinkyisBlue]

59. I had a Ford Escort that, once it reached 85,000 miles or so, started disintegrating.

One thing after another went wrong with it, and several times it stopped without warning.

I refuse to ever buy another Ford and will only but a Toyota or Honda now. I love my Toyota Corolla, it has 85,000+ miles and is still going strong, no problems at all.

They should rate automobiles for quality 5 years after they are built and with 75,000+ miles on them. Let's see how Ford's rate then (bottom of the heap).

[MikeNearMcChord]

9. For racing fans

Ford also meant F%$#ed On Race Day.:evilgrin:

[itsrobert]

16. Toyota never wins Nascar

They are all usually running up the rear.

[A HERETIC I AM]

33. Ummmm...it's their first year. Give them time. n/t

[Lugnut]

48. Ha!

You don't watch the Craftsman Truck Series of NASCAR. A Toyota Tundra team won the championship last season and a different Toyota Tundra team is leading the points race this season. The Camry NEXTEL Cup teams have a lot of work to do. ;)

[Kerrytravelers]

10. FORD- Fucker Only Runs Downhill!

[Swamp Rat]

36. Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge.

:D

MOPAR roolz! :headbang: :S

[JDPriestly]

12. I love my Honda.

It's my second Honda and I would not trade Hondas for any other car. My Hondas have been relatively trouble free and I like it that way.

[nedbal]

34. My honda was a piece of SHIT Bought American after that experience,

Bought a new accord 5 speed, only lasted 7 years before it rusted out and the fuel system needed bi-monthly dealer repair. Next I got an OLDS , lasted over 200k miles and 14 years.

I will never buy a honda again, after 4 years they fall apart has been my experience

[minkyboodle]

39. wow

I know 3 people in my immediate family who have driven
accords and civics for 220 thousand plus with no major
repairs. However, with anything I guess you can get a
lemon though. My fathers old Delta 88 Olds did last to
175+ though very good value car purchase (he got it used).

[JDPriestly]

60. Rust -- don't have that in California

That's the difference. That explains a lot to me. Hondas are popular in California, but I didn't see many back east.

[itsrobert]

13. 1997 Ford Escort here still GOING STRONG

after 225,000 miles!!!!

[Critters2]

17. I had one that made it to 300,000

which is why I drive a Focus today.

[Selatius]

18. American car manufacturers have a radically different manufacturing technique than the Japanese

American production philosophy diverges from Japanese production philosophy in that it emphasizes, or perhaps over-emphasizes, mass production at the expense of everything else, including quality. Japanese companies could never match the production volume of US automakers, so they decided to set themselves apart in the latter decades of the 20th century by concentrating on quality controls as well as mass production in the US market.

Also, the structure of Japanese companies is different from American companies. In Japanese companies, the relationship between the company and workers is often characterized as lifetime employment, large bonuses, wages strictly tied to seniority, and the ability for workers to have a voice in the decision-making process. The last part is one reason why few car making companies in Japan are unionized. By coupling bonuses and strict adherence to seniority in terms of pay, you can motivate workers to do their best if a large portion of their paycheck is derived from how well the company as a whole does.

In recent years, corporate executives in the auto business have had to basically re-examine the entire way of doing business in light of the devastation wrought in recent years due inflationary oil prices and a jobless recovery.

[spoony]

66. Simply untrue

The Japanese companies are not the altruistic, egalitarian groups you paint them as. Workers do not, in fact, necessarily get anything out of their company's success. In 2001 Toyota netted a trillion yen, and refused all proposals for a raise in base salary in Japan. And as for a lifetime expectancy within the company, as of 2005 40% of its Japanese workers were either temporary or fixed term. (Tadao Wakatsuki, labour analyst.)

And here is an article from a few weeks ago that shows that these practices have carried into their US facilities.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052502458.html
Toyota plans on capping its assembly line pay, regardless of their profits, and is bringing in lots of temp labour to cheaply outsource line jobs that used to pay much more to regular employees.

[SteelPenguin]

19. How bout for 5 year old cars or older

Ford's, in my experience, tend to be great till everything breaks down on you all at once and you're spending thousands of dollars on obscure widgets and parts. Ford's long term need more maintenance than Toyota's and what they need is more expensive by far.

Alot of that is caused by the fact that Ford has something like 30 different platforms and every car uses it's own specific parts, while Honda has less than 10, and they share lots of different parts, bringing down the cost.

I know based on my current vehicle, and the service I've gotten from the local Ford dealership (Shults Ford in Pittsburgh SUCKS ASS) I'll never get a Ford again. Meanwhile our Honda, the exact same age as our Ford, is purring along with only a few much less expensive tweaks and tune ups.

My point is that brand new cars are all, generally, pretty nice, but review em after they've been driven for 60k miles and then we'll talk.

[AX10]

23. Sounds like my mother's 92' Taurus.

It was fine for the first three years, then suddenly everything fell apart. The first thing to be replaced was the fuel line from the tank (at 3 years :wtf:). The head gasket was replaced twice, a new starter at 5 years, the front brake calipers would jam up and this horrible grinding sound would start. That happened twice. A wire to the starter fell out twice. A bunch of smaller things went wrong too. It's a good thing she bought an extended warranty. Never again will my parents buy another Ford.

She got rid of it in 2000 and got a Buick Lesabre. Seven years and no major repairs yet.

[Clark2008]

29. I don't know. I went 10 years without having to change the brakes

on mine.

[SteelPenguin]

38. Yours came with brakes?

[madrchsod]

20. if one looks at the fit and finish of a ford

they are as good as any japanese made car in the usa. by the way the ford i inspected was made in mexico.
i know there are people who think that the big three cars are crap but give the american ,canadian, mexican worker the parts and tools to assemble a car and they can do as good as anyone in the world.
another fact-the best car that buick builds (in australia) is`t sold in the usa it`s sold only in china...and it`s a beauty.

[Blue_Tires]

22. lol....brilliant

[NickB79]

24. Now, if only they'd work on that pesky "fuel economy" thing

Yes, yes they have the Ford Escape Hybrid, but Toyota has the Prius, Camry Hybrid, Corolla, Matrix, and Yaris.

Build a hybrid Focus (on the European, not American, platform) that gets 50+ mpg and then we'll talk.

[spoony]

58. Right after we get through the pesky "unemployment" thing.

[Matsubara]

25. Good Start, though I trust Consumers Union more than JD Power...

But there are other reasons why Toyota is now the NUMBER ONE selling car company in the world. Excellent quality and a much more fuel-efficient overall fleet than Ford offers.

(Not anti-Ford, I just finished driving an Escort into the ground, and was pretty satisfied with it, but I wouldn't put it in the same league with the old Corolla wagon I used to drive - that thing was a real warhorse.)

[knitter4democracy]

26. I sure love my new-to-me Freestyle.

Best car I've ever had. If they made a hybrid, I'd turn around and buy that new. Hubby tries to steal my car all the time, and I know several other moms at school who are seriously considering a Freestyle next time around. Five star crash rating for both front and sides, and a third row backseat so you can fit in four carseats. Great, great car. :D

[Clark2008]

27. Easyyyyyy to believe!!

I have had several Fords that have NEVER, not once until they're well into their 13th year, given me an ounce of trouble while friends with Toyota's are constantly in the shop.

That's why I bought another Ford last year.

I knew it.

[gulfcoastliberal]

30. The irony is now most "domestic" Fords are made in Mexico and most Toyotas are made in America

Toyota has the new truck plant in Texas and building another in Mississippi to build the Highlanders domestically. Ford? Busy shuttering most of it's remaining US production and eliminating most US jobs too. Those are cold hard facts. One the result of an ironic "fair trade" Reagan admin. deal, the other an illegal treaty not ratified by 2/3rds of the senate as required by the Constitution. This after it was steamrollered through by our first "new dem" president.

[Initech]

45. True dat.

I've been looking at Mazdas that were made in Michigan and Hondas that were made in Indiana. Hyundai just built a huge plant in Alabama. It's sending mixed signals, isn't it?

[fujiyama]

31. Toyota will admit that they've had some quality issue crop up recently

The number of recalls have also increased.

But American automakers also tend to rest on their laurels, and rarely learn from mistakes (or even build on their achievements).

[Connie_Corleone]

32. I've had 2 Fords and one Toyota.

I'll stick with Toyota.

[emilyg]

37. Love my Toyota.

[billbuckhead]

47. Toyota's just had a 3.5million customer class action lawsuit for bad engines

Even GM never built such a bad series of poorly engineered engines. Toyota has consistently been one of the most overrated manufacturers out there. Toyota is also having to replace engines after spending millions on a macho ad campaign telling consumers that their new super gas guzzling monster Tundra truck had bigger better parts. (Except for all those bad crankshafts). They also got caught cheating on passing California emissions. Even in racing they got caught up in corporate espionage against Ferrari.

<http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html>
<http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6294595/the-general-forum/toyota-tundra-having-more-problems-camshaft-gone-c/page3.html>
<http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr030502.htm>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_F1>

These guys might actually be worse than Detroit.

[blondeatlast]

63. Yeah, my '99 Camry is such a piece o' crap it's never ever been in the shop.

$3.5 million class action? That's chump change--and I cashed in mine with a free oil change. I got quite a bargain, IMHO.

Keep talking, someone who's never owned one might believe you...

[minkyboodle]

40. my luck has been good

1995 Ford Taurus over 160,000 no major powertrain
work done. However I heard that 1995 was the last
good year for that model (it was the last year the
Taurus outsold the Camry). That being said when it
finally dies I'm gonna go for an accord or honda fit.
Those new 07 accords (even the v4s) are a lot of fun
to drive and get decent mileage. Then again maybe a Fit
hybrid will hit by then, I'll jump on that. I hope
Ford is getting their stuff together and increasing
mileage as well.

[Bombero1956]

41. can't buy a Mustang GT made in Mexico

Made in the Flatrock Michigan assembly plant. I've had my GT for a year with only regular service work done to it. This is my second GT, the 1999 coupe is still going strong with not one major repair. Take care of your car and you'll do fine. Too many folks regard putting gas in their car as service. They don't change the oil at required intervals and never keep their tires properly imflated.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. As Much As I Hate Ford, (I'm A Chevy Guy) Congrats To Them!

[ironflange]

43. J, D, Power ratings aren't worth a bucket of warm piss

I pay no attention whatsoever to what they say.

http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php

Don't get me wrong, I was a Ford man almost all my life, I just traded in my '93 Aerostar last summer, and I still miss it. That thing hauled kids, garbage, cement mix, firewood, trailers, you name it, and just kept going and going and going. Ran like new to the bitter end. Somehow, though, we now have three Chevys. Go figure.

[ironflange]

49. Ronald Reagan became governor of California. . .

With the help of the actual guy named J. D. Power.

[blondeatlast]

62. I knew it was BS but didn't know exactly how they operated.

I've bookmarked that source for future reference. Thanks.

[tom_paine]

44. Yeh. And unemployment is lower than it was during Clinton

They must have some Loyal Bushies doing their polls over at JD Power & Assoc.

I simply do not believe it.

[johnaries]

50. I used to have Primestar sattelite TV, which won the JD Powers

award. A year later they were bought out by DirecTV. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

51. Ford Tempo=pyro car. Burning themselves up so you don't have to!

problem with headlight switches shorting out and burning up cars. I had one. It did. Ford claimed the year car I had didn't have this problem, only the 2 previous years. Right.

[smiley_glad_hands]

54. Im still driving my Yugo.

Had to put 4 new chihuahuas under the hood after 500,000 miles.

sarcasm off

[bleedingheart]

55. You know what...I am happy to hear it....perhaps their competitive drive is back

I owned two fords...one a dud and the other a great car....

The one thing I loved about Ford's that Toyota's were a bit lacking in was the turning radius.

However...if Ford turns itself around and produces a quality hybrid...I am all there....

[ReverendDeuce]

56. Don't bet on it...

All three of the American car companies are floundering. It's really sad.

It's not the American workers' fault, it's executive management's fault.

[bleedingheart]

57. every company I ever worked for promoted people who were incompetent

currently there is a guy who got his job because he wrote a few articles about how to be successful...and that made our company think he knew something...big mistake...the guy can't even make a decision...

[devilgrrl]

61. Pinto beats Volvo in safety!

:sarcasm:

[Bake]

65. My Taurus has almost 90,000 miles and going strong.

I had a Camry that threw a rod/blew the engine at 18,000 miles because the engine/oil gelled. Toyota CLAIMED it wasn't their fault and refused to do a damn thing about it. By the way they bought themselves a class action with the engine gel problem.

Fuck 'em.

Bake